Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

The new remaster for the Bardock special looks good.

Toei Bardock Special Remaster (TV Rip):


DBZ Kai BD:


Dragon Box:


Toei 2018 Cooler's Revenge Remaster (Amazon Rip):

I can definitely see grain on the screen cap of the Amazon/Netflix version that's not even there on the BD, so that makes me wonder if the streaming release is using an up convert of the 16mm scans used for Dragon Box: The Movies back in 2006. That is unless it's coming from a different master that i am not aware of.

I don't know, I'm just guessing why the top one looks so different.

No, the Amazon rip is not an upscale of the Dragon Box Masters. It how the blu-ray remasters looked before Toei applied DNR and censored some of the footage.

Ok gotcha, i'm not sure why i was thinking that was the master they were using for the streaming version when it actually wasn't at all. Thanks for setting the record straight on that so i will now know what I'm looking at next time i see photos of these releases.

[Robo4900]

To me it looks like the better mastered blu rays. Wish they keep the grain in.

Yeah, I was honestly impressed with how crisp it is, its almost as sharp as the remastered films and looks far better than Kai (despite being a 720p TV rip).

Yup considering it's 16mm. Now all we need is for them to go overboard with the DNR on the Trunks Speacial

35mm, actually. The series and TV specials are 16mm, the movies are all 35mm.

For me, the DNR just makes it too oily and flat. Looks a lot more textured with the grain on it, so I prefer that. And the grain isn't at all intrusive; I watched the Amazon master of one of the movies on my TV the other day, and it really looks fantastic; screenshots do it no justice! It didn't look super-grainy like you'd imagine from seeing just a screenshot, but it didn't look all oily and soft like the BD. Just looks really great. Wish they'd put that version on BD.

Had a look at this shot in DB Movie 1 and there did look to be some smudging on finer details in it and think there's a tiny green tint added to it:

Spoiler:

Amazon/Netflix


BD

I can definitely see grain on the screen cap of the Amazon/Netflix version that's not even there on the BD, so that makes me wonder if the streaming release is using an up convert of the 16mm scans used for Dragon Box: The Movies back in 2006. That is unless it's coming from a different master that i am not aware of.

I don't know, I'm just guessing why the top one looks so different.

The Amazon and BD are the exact same scan, which is a new scan from the 35mm elements, just like the DBox was back in 2006, except this time with competent colour-correction and much better scanning equipment. The BD is just smudged to get rid of the grain, then digitally sharpened to mitigate how crap it would look at the level they applied the DNR, so overall it looks rather scrubbed and digitally screwed-with, as opposed to the Amazon/Netflix master, which is a much more honest presentation of the original film, and doesn't have the weirdly smudgy background problem the BDs have(Look at the palm tree -- it looks very oily and smudged on the BD; the subtlety of the tone variations in the painting is gone).

[Bruma rabu]

35mm, actually. The series and TV specials are 16mm, the movies are all 35mm.

That's what I ment, DHM said it looks just as good as the movies and I was agreeing with him and referring to it being 16mm(The special)

For me, the DNR just makes it too oily and flat. Looks a lot more textured with the grain on it, so I prefer that. And the grain isn't at all intrusive; I watched the Amazon master of one of the movies on my TV the other day, and it really looks fantastic; screenshots do it no justice! It didn't look super-grainy like you'd imagine from seeing just a screenshot, but it didn't look all oily and soft like the BD. Just looks really great. Wish they'd put that version on BD.

I think the good mastered ones look amazing in motion almost like you're just looking at pure cels.

[DHM211]

35mm, actually. The series and TV specials are 16mm, the movies are all 35mm.

That's what I ment, DHM said it looks just as good as the movies and I was agreeing with him and referring to it being 16mm(The special)

For me, the DNR just makes it too oily and flat. Looks a lot more textured with the grain on it, so I prefer that. And the grain isn't at all intrusive; I watched the Amazon master of one of the movies on my TV the other day, and it really looks fantastic; screenshots do it no justice! It didn't look super-grainy like you'd imagine from seeing just a screenshot, but it didn't look all oily and soft like the BD. Just looks really great. Wish they'd put that version on BD.

I think the good mastered ones look amazing in motion almost like you're just looking at pure cels.

Yeah I watched both the Amazon version and the Blu-ray version of Dead Zone on my TV and I really didn't notice any difference.

Watching it on my laptop is a different story

[JohnnyCashKami]

Last one Dragon Ball The Path to Power Blu-ray

Spoiler:

This looks green-ish for some reason.

Man it's so weird and cool jumping between Movie 1 and Path to Power and seeing the art changes, haha. Also reminds me about how much I love Kid Goku.

Path to Power is essentially a Dragon Ball GT movie (art/music) based on Dragon Ball.

The new remaster for the Bardock special looks good.

Spoiler:

Toei Bardock Special Remaster (TV Rip):


DBZ Kai BD:


Dragon Box:


Toei 2018 Cooler's Revenge Remaster (Amazon Rip):

Dragon Box did not age well.

[KBABZ]

Dragon Box did not age well.

Yeah, what's with those horizontal spots coming off of the stars? Who let that through???

[NewKakarot]

Sorry to butt in, but how are you guys getting access to Netflix/ Amazon Japan?

I'd love to watch these remasters. They look super clean (even with some of the color issues)

[JohnnyCashKami]

Sorry to butt in, but how are you guys getting access to Netflix/ Amazon Japan?

I'd love to watch these remasters. They look super clean (even with some of the color issues)

Simply have a VPN service that allows to watch content from Japan and of course, an active account on either Netflix or Amazon Prime and then you can watch it. I signed up for a Express VPN 30 day trial to access the Dragon Ball content on Netflix Japan and it's pretty awesome how they have all that to watch.

They also allow to download shows and movies (with DRM) so it's watchable offline (via the app) and this way, there's no need to use internet or any possible slow downs while streaming.

[Robo4900]

The new remaster for the Bardock special looks good.

Dragon Box did not age well.

Yeah, what's with those horizontal spots coming off of the stars? Who let that through???

You're right; this isn't what Dragon Box looks like.

For one thing, I don't think the bars at the very sides were thicker than a couple pixels, and for another, the colours weren't that dull.
As for the horizontal spots... The way the DBoxes did DNR was they applied a motion blur effect. You can see evidence of this in dark areas(Next to Vegeta's hair) of images(Lower-right, around Bubbles' armpit).

I think DHM211 has some weird playback settings or something, which need to be fixed.

I took the liberty of taking a real Dragon Box screenshot(Actually, it's from the Special Selection DVD, but they're the exact same master), and putting that in. I also put my own screenshot of both newer HD masters, since the DBox isn't the only thing DHM's playback settings are giving a false impression of. I didn't replace his Kai one because, honestly, I can't be bothered.
I also removed DHM's versions of all except the DBox shot, since otherwise this would be bloated with doubles of everything. And I re-ordered the screenshots.

Spoiler:

Toei Bardock Special Remaster (TV Rip; my version)


Toei 2018 Cooler's Revenge Remaster (Amazon Rip; my version):


DBZ Kai BD:


Dragon Box:


DHM's "Dragon Box" screenshot, for comparison:

[JohnnyCashKami]

You know, I'm surprised that TOEI didn't censor Baby Goku's wee-wee like they did in Kai which I'm glad 'cause censorship straight up sucks but yet, they removed.. a middle finger? Weird.

Middle fingers are kind of used considerably throughout the series so.. why censor it? Who knows.

[DHM211]

Dragon Box did not age well.

Yeah, what's with those horizontal spots coming off of the stars? Who let that through???

You're right; this isn't what Dragon Box looks like.

For one thing, I don't think the bars at the very sides were thicker than a couple pixels, and for another, the colours weren't that dull.
As for the horizontal spots... The way the DBoxes did DNR was they applied a motion blur effect. You can see evidence of this in dark areas(Next to Vegeta's hair) of images(Lower-right, around Bubbles' armpit).

I think DHM211 has some weird playback settings or something, which need to be fixed.

I took the liberty of taking a real Dragon Box screenshot(Actually, it's from the Special Selection DVD, but they're the exact same master), and putting that in. I also put my own screenshot of both newer HD masters, since the DBox isn't the only thing DHM's playback settings are giving a false impression of. I didn't replace his Kai one because, honestly, I can't be bothered.
I also removed DHM's versions of all except the DBox shot, since otherwise this would be bloated with doubles of everything. And I re-ordered the screenshots.

Spoiler:

Toei Bardock Special Remaster (TV Rip; my version)


Toei 2018 Cooler's Revenge Remaster (Amazon Rip; my version):


DBZ Kai BD:


Dragon Box:


DHM's "Dragon Box" screenshot, for comparison:

There is a lot of misinformation here.
There are two Dragon Box versions of the Tv specials. The standard dragon box and the special selection DVDs. While they may come from the same master, the special selection dvd had a few tweaks, such as better encoding and removal of the black bars(http://www.kanzenshuu.com/reviews/speci ... ction-dvd/).



My screencaps come directly from a rip of the standard dragon box version.
Also, what screencapping program are you using for your Amazon rip? It has a extra bit of green added to it and seems quite compressed.

Yours:


Mine:

[KBABZ]

Still doesn't quite answer why the stars get dotted lines. Was that an error in the remastering process of the Dragon Boxes?

Regardless, in my opinion the Amazon conversion looks the best I've ever seen of them, at least for that specific shot.

[Scavenger]

Also, what screencapping program are you using for your Amazon rip? It has a extra bit of green added to it and seems quite compressed.

Yours:

Spoiler:

Mine:

Spoiler:

The colors on your screenshot were not rendered correctly. The video was encoded with the Rec.709 color matrix, but your player incorrectly used the Rec.601 color matrix to decode the video. Most HD content use Rec.709, most standard definition material use Rec.601 and most 4K material use Rec.2020.

Did you use VLC? VLC is not good for screenshots. It's better to use MPC HC/BE with madVR, VirtualDub2 (decode setting needs to be changed first), or DGAVCIndex (only works with h264 content)

[Robo4900]

There is a lot of misinformation here.

No, there is not. There's things I left out for simplicity's sake, but the only thing I said that was false was an offhand remark about the black bars, which was just a case of misremembering a small detail. See below.

There are two Dragon Box versions of the Tv specials. The standard dragon box and the special selection DVDs. While they may come from the same master, the special selection dvd had a few tweaks, such as better encoding and removal of the black bars(http://www.kanzenshuu.com/reviews/speci ... ction-dvd/).

Spoiler:

Yes... The result is that the SS DVD has less macroblocking, and the slight black bars on the sides are gone... Admittedly, the black bars are thicker than I remember on the DBox, but aside from this, this is just a glorified nitpick.

My screencaps come directly from a rip of the standard dragon box version.

As Scavenger said, you're using the wrong colour settings.

Also, what screencapping program are you using for your Amazon rip? It has a extra bit of green added to it and seems quite compressed.

Spoiler:

Yours:


Mine:

... I don't even know where to start here.

... My screenshot was 960x519. So, obviously it's of a lower detail level than yours; I downscaled it to make it of a similar scale to the other screenshots. And yet you've got two 1440x900 screenshots here? And it looks like you've used two different upscaling algorithms for the sort of magnified circle area? And you've upscaled mine to the same scale as yours, with yours in fact being downscaled from 1080p? I think?

... I don't know what you were trying to do here, or what you're trying to show with it.

You say my post has a lot of misinformation... Not only have you failed to back up this claim, but this would be a rather good summary of your post, in fact...

Still doesn't quite answer why the stars get dotted lines. Was that an error in the remastering process of the Dragon Boxes?

Regardless, in my opinion the Amazon conversion looks the best I've ever seen of them, at least for that specific shot.

As I said in my last post, "As for the horizontal spots... The way the DBoxes did DNR was they applied a motion blur effect. You can see evidence of this in dark areas(Next to Vegeta's hair) of images(Lower-right, around Bubbles' armpit)."
The motion blurring can create ghosting that sometimes ends up very visible under certain circumstances.

[KBABZ]

Still doesn't quite answer why the stars get dotted lines. Was that an error in the remastering process of the Dragon Boxes?

As I said in my last post, "As for the horizontal spots... The way the DBoxes did DNR was they applied a motion blur effect. You can see evidence of this in dark areas(Next to Vegeta's hair) of images(Lower-right, around Bubbles' armpit)."
The motion blurring can create ghosting that sometimes ends up very visible under certain circumstances.

Oh, oops! I got that information and somehow failed to realize it answered my question! Sorry about that.

[DHM211]

Also, what screencapping program are you using for your Amazon rip? It has a extra bit of green added to it and seems quite compressed.

Yours:

Spoiler:

Mine:

Spoiler:

The colors on your screenshot were not rendered correctly. The video was encoded with the Rec.709 color matrix, but your player incorrectly used the Rec.601 color matrix to decode the video. Most HD content use Rec.709, most standard definition material use Rec.601 and most 4K material use Rec.2020.

Did you use VLC? VLC is not good for screenshots. It's better to use MPC HC/BE with madVR, VirtualDub2 (decode setting needs to be changed first), or DGAVCIndex (only works with h264 content)

Nope, I use elmedia player to screenshot on average, although with those two photos I simply shift+command+3.

There is a lot of misinformation here.

No, there is not. There's things I left out for simplicity's sake, but the only thing I said that was false was an offhand remark about the black bars, which was just a case of misremembering a small detail. See below.

Yes, there is. Claiming that the standard Dragon Box and the Special Selection dvd were "the exact same master" is completely false. While they may have started off as the same master, changes were made to both along the way.

There are two Dragon Box versions of the Tv specials. The standard dragon box and the special selection DVDs. While they may come from the same master, the special selection dvd had a few tweaks, such as better encoding and removal of the black bars(http://www.kanzenshuu.com/reviews/speci ... ction-dvd/).

Spoiler:

Yes... The result is that the SS DVD has less macroblocking, and the slight black bars on the sides are gone... Admittedly, the black bars are thicker than I remember on the DBox, but aside from this, this is just a glorified nitpick.

Nope, this is a grave injustice of misinformation, and as a scholar of Dragon Ball visual quality, this cannot not be allowed.

Also, what screencapping program are you using for your Amazon rip? It has a extra bit of green added to it and seems quite compressed.

Spoiler:

Yours:


Mine:

... I don't even know where to start here.

... My screenshot was 960x519. So, obviously it's of a lower detail level than yours; I downscaled it to make it of a similar scale to the other screenshots. And yet you've got two 1440x900 screenshots here? And it looks like you've used two different upscaling algorithms for the sort of magnified circle area? And you've upscaled mine to the same scale as yours, with yours in fact being downscaled from 1080p? I think?

Hmmm, thats gonna be a big no-no. Why would you lower the resolution on a photo, especially one with grain? Thats obviously going to compress the image and alter the colors quite a bit.

... I don't know what you were trying to do here, or what you're trying to show with it.

You say my post has a lot of misinformation... Not only have you failed to back up this claim, but this would be a rather good summary of your post, in fact...
.

Just trying to stop the spread of misinformation.

[Luso Saiyan]

Yes, there is. Claiming that the standard Dragon Box and the Special Selection dvd were "the exact same master" is completely false.

That it is the exact same master is not "completely false". It's completely true. The difference is that it's a new transfer (from the same master), and by extension a new encode.

While they may have started off as the same master, changes were made to both along the way.

So you acknowledge that they used the same master. The changes are not changes at all. Merely small improvements, expected from a new transfer.

[DHM211]

Yes, there is. Claiming that the standard Dragon Box and the Special Selection dvd were "the exact same master" is completely false.

That it is the exact same master is not "completely false". It's completely true. The difference is that it's a new transfer (from the same master), and by extension a new encode.

While they may have started off as the same master, changes were made to both along the way.

So you acknowledge that they used the same master. The changes are not changes at all. Merely small improvements, expected from a new transfer.

Yes, they are the same master, however, claiming that they are "exactly the same" is what I have a problem with. There are clear difference's between the two.




For example, these two pictures come from the same master, would anyone say these are identical?

[Robo4900]

That it is the exact same master is not "completely false". It's completely true. The difference is that it's a new transfer (from the same master), and by extension a new encode.

New transfer implies it's a new scan of the source film elements; it's in fact the same scan, or in other words the same transfer, just encoded slightly differently to one DVD compared to the other. It's not a new encode by extension, a new encode is in fact all it is.

Yes, there is. Claiming that the standard Dragon Box and the Special Selection dvd were "the exact same master" is completely false. While they may have started off as the same master, changes were made to both along the way.

Literally the only difference is the encoding, the only result of which you can actually see being that the DBox has thin black lines at the sides which the SS DVD lacks. Yes, I concede that there is that tiny difference of how the masters were encoded to DVD, but it's a nitpick at best, and saying my post is full of misinformation because of this small lexical detail is pedantry of the sort that makes conversation like this utterly impossible to have, because someone will jump on you at the slightest mistake claiming you're some kind of heathen for not considering two near-identical looking encodes of the same master to be 100% different masters.

Let me put it this way: The point I was getting at was that your screenshots were -- intentionally or not -- deceptive due to some weird issues with them, and I was attempting to correct that. Your entire counter to this, and the basis of saying that my post is full of misinformation, is that I probably should have phrased things slightly differently to reflect the fact that this master was slightly differently encoded for the later DVD.
This isn't really condusive to any kind of useful discussion, and can only result in frustration. Not only has nothing I've brought up been addressed, but we're now on a wild tangent about meaningless nonsense in regards to encoding differences of two old DVD masters which are, for all intents and purposes, the same, and both totally irrelevant and obsolete due to the new HD master.

Quite frankly, if I was expecting responses of the sort you're giving, I wouldn't have bothered posting; because of the very selective and obtuse way in which you're responding to me, we're not talking with each-other, we're talking at each-other, which isn't an interesting or rewarding way to converse with anyone, and -- as I said before -- can only lead to frustration.

Yes... The result is that the SS DVD has less macroblocking, and the slight black bars on the sides are gone... Admittedly, the black bars are thicker than I remember on the DBox, but aside from this, this is just a glorified nitpick.

Nope, this is a grave injustice of misinformation, and as a scholar of Dragon Ball visual quality, this cannot not be allowed.

Please tell me you're just being sarcastic. I have no idea where to even begin addressing this otherwise.

... I don't even know where to start here.

... My screenshot was 960x519. So, obviously it's of a lower detail level than yours; I downscaled it to make it of a similar scale to the other screenshots. And yet you've got two 1440x900 screenshots here? And it looks like you've used two different upscaling algorithms for the sort of magnified circle area? And you've upscaled mine to the same scale as yours, with yours in fact being downscaled from 1080p? I think?

Hmmm, thats gonna be a big no-no. Why would you lower the resolution on a photo, especially one with grain? Thats obviously going to compress the image and alter the colors quite a bit.

... Even if that wasn't nonsense, how does that even remotely address anything about what I said there?

[Bruma rabu]

Yes, there is. Claiming that the standard Dragon Box and the Special Selection dvd were "the exact same master" is completely false.

That it is the exact same master is not "completely false". It's completely true. The difference is that it's a new transfer (from the same master), and by extension a new encode.

While they may have started off as the same master, changes were made to both along the way.

So you acknowledge that they used the same master. The changes are not changes at all. Merely small improvements, expected from a new transfer.

Yes, they are the same master, however, claiming that they are "exactly the same" is what I have a problem with. There are clear difference's between the two.




For example, these two pictures come from the same master, would anyone say these are identical?

Wouldn't that be from the exact same master just encoded differently? They come from the exact same source no? Same remaster but one got further treatment.