Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Danfun64 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:48 am

Sani007 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:40 am
So I think the best quality release of Dragon Ball animations:

TV Series:
Dragon Ball - Dragon Box + Broadcast Audio (1-7, 12, 25-27, 29-30, 33, 36-37, 40-41, 47-48, 153)
Dragon Ball Z - Dragon Box + Broadcast Audio
Dragon Ball GT - Dragon Box + Broadcast Audio
Dragon Ball Kai - Japanese BD (1-76 Yamamoto Score Edition, 77-95 Broadcast Audio)
Dragon Ball Super - Japanese BD

Movies:
Dragon Ball Movie 1-17 - Amazon Web-DL + Japanese BD Audio
Dragon Ball Movie 18-20 - Japanese BD (Extended Edition of Battle of Gods)

TV Specials:
Dragon Ball Z TV Special 1 - Animax rip patched with GYAO Web-DL + Broadcast Audio
Dragon Ball Z TV Special 2 - GYAO Web-DL + Broadcast Audio
Dragon Ball GT TV Special - Dragon Box + Broadcast Audio

Festival Features:
Dragon Ball "Jump Super Anime Tour 2008" Special - Japanese DVD
Dragon Ball "Jump Festa 2012" Special - French BD

Video Game Features:
"Dragon Ball Z Gaiden" Official Visual Guide - Dragon Box
"Dragon Ball Raging Blast" 2 Special Feature - French BD

Public Service Videos:
Dragon Ball Public Service Videos - Dragon Box
Actually, the Blu-ray audio of the classic 17 movies is heavily flawed. There's a noticible increase in noise compared to the Laserdisc and Dragon Box audio, and Toei tries to compensate by muting completely silent moments. The Japanese laserdisc audio is best for the movies with mono mixes. For movies that never had laserdisc releases or are in Stereo, the Dragon Box audio is your best option (at least for DBZ Movie 13). The reason for this is that the laserdiscs tend to have an isolated score option. With the mono movies, one stereo channel is the isolated score and the other is the main audio mix. With the stereo movies, or at least DBZ Movie 13, apparently both channels are used for the isolated score track, with the main audio mix being analog. I could be wrong on some things but that's the jist of it.

Also, you forgot to mention DBZ Kai The Final Chapters. The international cut was never releases in Japan. The closest thing to a Japanese release of the international cut is the German BD on account of having Japanese credits.

Also, nice necrobump.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by kei17 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:19 pm

Sorry for necroposting, but I think this is the most appropriate thread to post this. WOWOW, a satellite TV channel in Japan, aired all the DB movies in HD on October 12, and it used the heavily DNR'ed and censored footage which is the same as that on the Blu-ray release. Some other satellite channels like Toei Channel and Fuji TV TWO aired the uncensored version of the HD remastered footage before the Blu-ray release, but it seems that Toei now wants to completely bury the original version and treat the censored one as the only commercially available version from now on. Seriously, WTF are they thinking? FYI, this channel is not for kids and does air mature contents, so this is not a case caused by the TV ratings.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:31 pm

kei17 wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:19 pm
Sorry for necroposting, but I think this is the most appropriate thread to post this. WOWOW, a satellite TV channel in Japan, aired all the DB movies in HD on October 12, and it used the heavily DNR'ed and censored footage which is the same as that on the Blu-ray release. Some other satellite channels like Toei Channel and Fuji TV TWO aired the uncensored version of the HD remastered footage before the Blu-ray release, but it seems that Toei now wants to completely bury the original version and treat the censored one as the only commercially available version from now on. Seriously, WTF are they thinking? FYI, this channel is not for kids and does air mature contents, so this is not a case caused by the TV ratings.

Image

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What the??? I can't even begin to imagine what in the world would make them do this, because it's not like you're going to have a bunch of little kids watching who's eyes are going to melt at the sight of middle fingers. Seriously, there's no logic or understandable reasoning to it at all. :o

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:19 pm

kei17 wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:19 pm
Sorry for necroposting, but I think this is the most appropriate thread to post this. WOWOW, a satellite TV channel in Japan, aired all the DB movies in HD on October 12, and it used the heavily DNR'ed and censored footage which is the same as that on the Blu-ray release. Some other satellite channels like Toei Channel and Fuji TV TWO aired the uncensored version of the HD remastered footage before the Blu-ray release, but it seems that Toei now wants to completely bury the original version and treat the censored one as the only commercially available version from now on. Seriously, WTF are they thinking? FYI, this channel is not for kids and does air mature contents, so this is not a case caused by the TV ratings.
[images]
Ugh. I hate this. It's like Disney's attempts to censor their past to make their history seem retroactively more convenient... Utterly ridiculous.

Kinda weird too, in a way, though. Don't Japanese TV stations still air DBZ using a really old 1" tape master Fuji transferred from broadcast reels way back?... Weird that they'd go through the effort of getting the shiny, new, awfully censored versions of these movies, when they're still airing a faded, unremastered version of the show.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Metalwario64 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:02 am

Are Japanese standards becoming really toned down and worried about offending people lately, or is Toei just being completely moronic? Judging from Kei17's reaction, I'm sure it's the latter.

For as much as I cannot stand FUNimation's treatment of the franchise, they at least have been consistently leaving the franchise uncensored since the early 2000s.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by KBABZ » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:20 am

Metalwario64 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:02 am
Are Japanese standards becoming really toned down and worried about offending people lately, or is Toei just being completely moronic? Judging from Kei17's reaction, I'm sure it's the latter.
I think it's more Toei. Remember, they want money, and if they want to take their product around the world, they can sell it to more studios (and channels) if dubbing houses don't have to censor it, so it'd behoove them to not have characters flip the bird or anything edgy like that.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Mosaic » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:27 am

kei17 wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:19 pm
Some other satellite channels like Toei Channel and Fuji TV TWO aired the uncensored version of the HD remastered footage before the Blu-ray release, but it seems that Toei now wants to completely bury the original version and treat the censored one as the only commercially available version from now on.
I don't understand why they do things like this. One of their series, Mahou no Mako-chan, has two openings and Toei only used one on their DVD release. They refuse to acknowledge it, even going as far as saying a creditless version doesn't exist (despite the fact it was used in the Latino dub).

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:58 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:02 am
For as much as I cannot stand FUNimation's treatment of the franchise, they at least have been consistently leaving the franchise uncensored since the early 2000s.
Incorrect. Assuming we exclude the TV edits, and the censored/cut counterparts to the uncut home video... They still censored tons of dialogue, particularly in their OG DB dub and related movies.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by KBABZ » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:20 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:58 pm
Metalwario64 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:02 am
For as much as I cannot stand FUNimation's treatment of the franchise, they at least have been consistently leaving the franchise uncensored since the early 2000s.
Incorrect. Assuming we exclude the TV edits, and the censored/cut counterparts to the uncut home video... They still censored tons of dialogue, particularly in their OG DB dub and related movies.
And that's just basic "Damn to Darn" stuff, Kunzait will be the first to tell you that the removal of the mystical elements, particularly in regards to Piccolo, would count as cultural censorship that's important to understanding the story!

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:30 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:20 pm
Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:58 pm
Metalwario64 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:02 am
For as much as I cannot stand FUNimation's treatment of the franchise, they at least have been consistently leaving the franchise uncensored since the early 2000s.
Incorrect. Assuming we exclude the TV edits, and the censored/cut counterparts to the uncut home video... They still censored tons of dialogue, particularly in their OG DB dub and related movies.
And that's just basic "Damn to Darn" stuff, Kunzait will be the first to tell you that the removal of the mystical elements, particularly in regards to Piccolo, would count as cultural censorship that's important to understanding the story!
Well, you're underselling this quite heavily.

Blue's "My long lost brother Samuel!" is often forgiven for how abhorrent the original scene was, but what about Roshi's pointlessly censored dialogue where he asks Bulma to take a walk with him around his island (and then Oolong, shapeshifted to Bulma, proceeds to do what we all know he did in that episode)?
What about what Bulma says to Pilaf when he interrogates her and his idea of torture is to blow her a kiss?
What about the "Guardian of earth", Kami? His name literally means God. And whatever excuse you can make for that, it ruins the scene where Roshi tells the others Goku's gone to train with Kami; in Japanese, it would read something like "The man Goku is going to train with... Is God." [cue shocked faces at the fact Goku's training with God]. Instead, it's "The man Goku is going to train with is... The guardian of earth." [cue shocked faces at Goku training with... The guardian of earth? Who the hell is that? Maybe if you watched Z you'd have some context, but that's still a bit silly]
What about Goku and Bulma in like episode 2, where Goku walks in on Bulma in the bath and she's angry and he says "Is this because you don't have a tail?", where his dialogue in the Japanese was closer to "Bulma, why do you have a butt on your chest?"

But yes, the removal of mystical elements to give OG DB more of a sci-fi lean, to fit it in more with what Funi saw Z as, was a real sin. There are ridiculous dub-only plot holes from this, such as someone, I think Roshi, saying Piccolo Daimao "fought people all across the galaxy before arriving on earth"
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Metalwario64 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:56 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:58 pm
Metalwario64 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:02 am
For as much as I cannot stand FUNimation's treatment of the franchise, they at least have been consistently leaving the franchise uncensored since the early 2000s.
Incorrect. Assuming we exclude the TV edits, and the censored/cut counterparts to the uncut home video... They still censored tons of dialogue, particularly in their OG DB dub and related movies.
Uh... Okay? When did I mention the dub? The Japanese product has been uncensored visually and audibly since they began releasing it here with the singles. I couldn't care less what they do with their dub, and it clearly has no bearing on their release of the Japanese audio track.

TV edits also don't mean anything, because all home releases are uncensored. All of Z, original and GT, as well as Kai and Super. None of the home releases have any visual censorship, and the Japanese audio is completely intact. Now, you can complain about picture quality all you want, but that's completely unrelated.

That's different than Toei who's home release IS censored, and it's clear they're trying to wipe the history books with their new censored trash. FUNimation still offers the Japanese version completely uncensored, and I'll put up with their shitty "remastering" over Toei's censors.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by kei17 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:48 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:02 am
Are Japanese standards becoming really toned down and worried about offending people lately, or is Toei just being completely moronic? Judging from Kei17's reaction, I'm sure it's the latter.
Japanese standards are becoming stricter lately, but it's still very rare to see additional censorship in home video releases except for very old contents that include now-considered-extremely-offensive terms such as kichigai (frantic), katawa (crippled), mekura (blind), and izari (lame). It's always just simple audio edit or editing out specific shots, and this kind of elaborate visual edit is possibly unprecedented especially when it comes to anime.

My guess is that Toei wants to produce an internationally acceptable version of their old contents and make them export-ready. The finger isn't even censored in the edited version of Fusion Reborn aired on Cartoon Network and Nicktoons, though.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:29 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:56 pm
Uh... Okay? When did I mention the dub? The Japanese product has been uncensored visually and audibly since they began releasing it here with the singles. I couldn't care less what they do with their dub, and it clearly has no bearing on their release of the Japanese audio track [...]
Fair enough.

Still, it's clear Funi are very censor-happy, and while what Toei's doing is awful, Funi are hardly sinless.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by KBABZ » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:17 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:30 pm
Blue's "My long lost brother Samuel!" is often forgiven for how abhorrent the original scene was, but what about Roshi's pointlessly censored dialogue where he asks Bulma to take a walk with him around his island (and then Oolong, shapeshifted to Bulma, proceeds to do what we all know he did in that episode)?

-snip-

But yes, the removal of mystical elements to give OG DB more of a sci-fi lean, to fit it in more with what Funi saw Z as, was a real sin. There are ridiculous dub-only plot holes from this, such as someone, I think Roshi, saying Piccolo Daimao "fought people all across the galaxy before arriving on earth"
On the first one, I really don't mind so much considering how poor in taste that humor is in the first place, especially for the more "egregiously forward" moments early on.

As for "all across the galaxy", that was said by Daimao himself during the climactic fight. And yeah I agree, it's strange how as I was watching the dub adjustments became more like Z at the same time the story itself was. There's also Goku blurting out "HE'S AN ALIEN!!" regarding Hero/Kami at the 23rd TB, which was just plain weird and I removed in T1C because that reveal is kinda supposed to happen later. But for me the absolute worst one was in the 22nd TB during the Jackie/Tien fight, where they changed the dialogue regarding Goku and Krillin discussing Roshi's glasses; instead it was generic sideline dialogue about "Can he win???", which totally ruins the storytelling considering it's setting up a particular moment in the Goku/Tien fight.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Mosaic » Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:42 pm

kei17 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:48 pm
Japanese standards are becoming stricter lately, but it's still very rare to see additional censorship in home video releases except for very old contents that include now-considered-extremely-offensive terms such as kichigai (frantic), katawa (crippled), mekura (blind), and izari (lame). It's always just simple audio edit or editing out specific shots, and this kind of elaborate visual edit is possibly unprecedented especially when it comes to anime.

My guess is that Toei wants to produce an internationally acceptable version of their old contents and make them export-ready. The finger isn't even censored in the edited version of Fusion Reborn aired on Cartoon Network and Nicktoons, though.
i just don't get it. Toei even released "Jungle Kurobe" on DVD not even 10 years ago, and that was banned for ages for having black face and other offensive racist stereotypes.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:09 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:17 pm
Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:30 pm
Blue's "My long lost brother Samuel!" is often forgiven for how abhorrent the original scene was, but what about Roshi's pointlessly censored dialogue where he asks Bulma to take a walk with him around his island (and then Oolong, shapeshifted to Bulma, proceeds to do what we all know he did in that episode)?

-snip-

But yes, the removal of mystical elements to give OG DB more of a sci-fi lean, to fit it in more with what Funi saw Z as, was a real sin. There are ridiculous dub-only plot holes from this, such as someone, I think Roshi, saying Piccolo Daimao "fought people all across the galaxy before arriving on earth"
On the first one, I really don't mind so much considering how poor in taste that humor is in the first place, especially for the more "egregiously forward" moments early on.

As for "all across the galaxy", that was said by Daimao himself during the climactic fight. And yeah I agree, it's strange how as I was watching the dub adjustments became more like Z at the same time the story itself was. There's also Goku blurting out "HE'S AN ALIEN!!" regarding Hero/Kami at the 23rd TB, which was just plain weird and I removed in T1C because that reveal is kinda supposed to happen later. But for me the absolute worst one was in the 22nd TB during the Jackie/Tien fight, where they changed the dialogue regarding Goku and Krillin discussing Roshi's glasses; instead it was generic sideline dialogue about "Can he win???", which totally ruins the storytelling considering it's setting up a particular moment in the Goku/Tien fight.
The key thing to notice among all this is that, while most of these individual cases can be made a case for or shrugged off, they're so numerous, you just can't come to any conclusion other than it being a crap dub, script-wise. Similar to Funi's constant "little additions" to their TFC & Super dubs; on their own, they're not all that bad, but it all adds up to be a serious detractor. (Even though it's to a far, far, far lesser extent these days)

I commend your efforts to attempt to fix the OG DB dub in your recut. Personally, I don't think I'd have the patience. :lol:
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by KBABZ » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:17 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:09 pm
I commend your efforts to attempt to fix the OG DB dub in your recut. Personally, I don't think I'd have the patience. :lol:
Thanks! I chalk it up to my preference and fondess for that dub, whereas someone like yourself who can't stand it wouldn't be bothered. I actually already did an initial pass to fix all of it (well, all that I could; I can't record new dialogue after all ,so I can't fix the talk about Roshi's glasses for example), but that was with the Blue Brick footage. I bought the Dragon Box to work with better footage, but keep the same English audio mix from the Bricks. (but you probably knew that already since I love talking about T1C).

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by MadSpecialist » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:21 pm

Mosaic wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:42 pm
kei17 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:48 pm
Japanese standards are becoming stricter lately, but it's still very rare to see additional censorship in home video releases except for very old contents that include now-considered-extremely-offensive terms such as kichigai (frantic), katawa (crippled), mekura (blind), and izari (lame). It's always just simple audio edit or editing out specific shots, and this kind of elaborate visual edit is possibly unprecedented especially when it comes to anime.

My guess is that Toei wants to produce an internationally acceptable version of their old contents and make them export-ready. The finger isn't even censored in the edited version of Fusion Reborn aired on Cartoon Network and Nicktoons, though.
i just don't get it. Toei even released "Jungle Kurobe" on DVD not even 10 years ago, and that was banned for ages for having black face and other offensive racist stereotypes.
Blackface seems to be more socially accepted in Japan than cursing nowadays, a comedian "portrayed" Eddie Murphy only in January last year.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by TheGreatness25 » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:11 pm

kei17 wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:19 pm
Sorry for necroposting, but I think this is the most appropriate thread to post this. WOWOW, a satellite TV channel in Japan, aired all the DB movies in HD on October 12, and it used the heavily DNR'ed and censored footage which is the same as that on the Blu-ray release. Some other satellite channels like Toei Channel and Fuji TV TWO aired the uncensored version of the HD remastered footage before the Blu-ray release, but it seems that Toei now wants to completely bury the original version and treat the censored one as the only commercially available version from now on. Seriously, WTF are they thinking? FYI, this channel is not for kids and does air mature contents, so this is not a case caused by the TV ratings.

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I can't believe their Blu-rays are like that too. It's just so disappointing.

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