Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by eledoremassis02 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:31 pm

Trachta10 wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:14 pm
KBABZ wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:10 pm
Captain Awesome wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:05 pm

They were great but its a pity about the green tint. Is there someone with a poorly calibrated monitor at Toei or something?
The green tint is for it to look correct on Japanese televisions. It's supposed to be disabled for export, but clearly for The Final Chapters and Funimation's master of Broly, they forgot.
Does it have something to do with the fact that the traffic lights in Japan are BLUE instead of green?

Image
Here is an interesting read on that https://www.rd.com/article/heres-japan- ... ic-lights/

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by KBABZ » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:22 am

Trachta10 wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:14 pm
KBABZ wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:10 pm
Captain Awesome wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:05 pm
They were great but its a pity about the green tint. Is there someone with a poorly calibrated monitor at Toei or something?
The green tint is for it to look correct on Japanese televisions. It's supposed to be disabled for export, but clearly for The Final Chapters and Funimation's master of Broly, they forgot.
Does it have something to do with the fact that the traffic lights in Japan are BLUE instead of green?
No, that is a difference in word definitions. It doesn't even make sense to the discussion anyway, it's not like Japan has blue-tinted glass/plastic on their TVs.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:29 am

KBABZ wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:10 pm
The green tint is for it to look correct on Japanese televisions.
That's not it. According to my sources, the suits at Toei are such huge Piccolo and Cell fans that everything with DB has to have green in it. One source told me that there are massive Piccolo and Cell statues in their meeting rooms.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:40 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:29 am
KBABZ wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:10 pm
The green tint is for it to look correct on Japanese televisions.
That's not it. According to my sources, the suits at Toei are such huge Piccolo and Cell fans that everything with DB has to have green in it. One source told me that there are massive Piccolo and Cell statues in their meeting rooms.
I can confirm. I would show the paperwork myself confirming it, but saying even this much puts me at risk of having Toei's lawyers knock at my door.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by KBABZ » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:12 am

ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:40 am
Matches Malone wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:29 am
KBABZ wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:10 pm
The green tint is for it to look correct on Japanese televisions.
That's not it. According to my sources, the suits at Toei are such huge Piccolo and Cell fans that everything with DB has to have green in it. One source told me that there are massive Piccolo and Cell statues in their meeting rooms.
I can confirm. I would show the paperwork myself confirming it, but saying even this much puts me at risk of having Toei's lawyers knock at my door.
My sources told me it was because of a stranglehold enforced by the CEO of the Big Green dub that Toei have to bow down to lest they tarnish DBZ with that dub by releasing it again.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Trachta10 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:15 pm

maybe this is why

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC-J
"NTSC-J uses a white reference (color temperature) of 9300K instead of the usual NTSC standard of 6500K"

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Captain Awesome » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:02 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:10 pm
The green tint is for it to look correct on Japanese televisions. It's supposed to be disabled for export, but clearly for The Final Chapters and Funimation's master of Broly, they forgot.
Sorry but that is just complete nonsense.

Just think about it - according to you every R2 DVD and Japanese region A Blu-Ray has a green tint.

It's a problem in Toei's production pipeline - I think Robo4900 and Ajay pretty much hit the nail on the head:
Robo4900 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:28 am
The cinema masters of the Broly movie, which run at 24fps exactly (not the more common home video standard of 23.976023976023976... fps), had a filter mistakenly applied that shifted the thing green (or perhaps they were watching it on some improperly-calibrated monitors and decided to "fix it", as is a somewhat-common theory for how Kai TFC and the Toei HD movie masters were screwed up), and that was what Toei sent to Funi.

Other companies such as MangaUK were sent the home video master, which runs at 23.976...fps, and didn't have the process applied that shifted the thing green.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Scsigs » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:15 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:02 pm
KBABZ wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:10 pm
The green tint is for it to look correct on Japanese televisions. It's supposed to be disabled for export, but clearly for The Final Chapters and Funimation's master of Broly, they forgot.
Sorry but that is just complete nonsense.

Just think about it - according to you every R2 DVD and Japanese region A Blu-Ray has a green tint.

It's a problem in Toei's production pipeline - I think Robo4900 and Ajay pretty much hit the nail on the head:
Robo4900 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:28 am
The cinema masters of the Broly movie, which run at 24fps exactly (not the more common home video standard of 23.976023976023976... fps), had a filter mistakenly applied that shifted the thing green (or perhaps they were watching it on some improperly-calibrated monitors and decided to "fix it", as is a somewhat-common theory for how Kai TFC and the Toei HD movie masters were screwed up), and that was what Toei sent to Funi.

Other companies such as MangaUK were sent the home video master, which runs at 23.976...fps, and didn't have the process applied that shifted the thing green.
To compound all of that, FUNi's master apparently had the green tint in the movie theater, meaning they reused it for home media. On top of that, that doesn't account for the fact that the movies were put on Amazon Japan, or that Kai: TFC was initially made for INTERNATIONAL AIRINGS before being aired in Japan when Toei needed something quick to replace Toriko. Sorry if I'm a bit rude here, but do people here not know these things?
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:22 pm

Green tint is theater gradation, i think if i correctly remember Ajay told it once cause it's that was answered by Funimation or something like that
it also explain why the Toei remastered movies also have green tint on them

Green tint is not something you can see only in DB, most movies nowadays have this green gradation deliberately

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by mikezilla2 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:48 pm

So any plans for home video in the US ?

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Ajay » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:50 pm

HakkaiBills93 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:22 pm
Green tint is theater gradation, i think if i correctly remember Ajay told it once cause it's that was answered by Funimation or something like that
it also explain why the Toei remastered movies also have green tint on them

Green tint is not something you can see only in DB, most movies nowadays have this green gradation deliberately
All I said was that the green-tinted release was 24fps, which is what cinema projectors run at compared to the regular 23.976fps found on home video. I was explaining why two versions exist, not why one is green. That is still a mystery.

Also your last point is just colour grading which is an independent and irrelevant subject.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Trachta10 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:32 pm

This practice apparently originates from a cultural preference regarding the portrayal of skin tones

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:27 am

Ajay wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:50 pm
HakkaiBills93 wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:22 pm
Green tint is theater gradation, i think if i correctly remember Ajay told it once cause it's that was answered by Funimation or something like that
it also explain why the Toei remastered movies also have green tint on them

Green tint is not something you can see only in DB, most movies nowadays have this green gradation deliberately
All I said was that the green-tinted release was 24fps, which is what cinema projectors run at compared to the regular 23.976fps found on home video. I was explaining why two versions exist, not why one is green. That is still a mystery.

Also your last point is just colour grading which is an independent and irrelevant subject.
How can you know that the dragon ball green tint are not deliberate "color grading"?
i mean that now we have 4k rerelease of movies, lot have green tint too and that's not deliberate as it wasn't back in time
Image
firsts harry potter movies also turn to green where bluray wasn't
star wars movies also turns green , i mean that i don't think it's something random that when you take into consideration that actual movies have a green color gradation, that old things when rereleased also turn green , french movies also have green tint like an asterix movies
Image where you can see several screenshot there green tinted https://www.dvdfr.com/dvd/c162942-12-tr ... terix.html

so i totally don't think that this "green" isn't deliberate
as much dbox i know it's not deliberate cause you have sometimes "red" sometimes "yellow" sometimes "blue" sometimes "green" but now it's all green and allways green

another example : there was recently a samurai troopers HD remaster , i figured that it also turn to have hue alteration to look green (it's not unproperly balanced cause white are white) but hue have been altered to turn more toward green than the usual blue

if you watch raw bluray, sky turn toward green
Image
only by a hue correction (white are already white)
you get back the blue sky
Image
what make me noticed that is that one of the troopers in old footage and most artwork have bluish hair where it turn to green in the remaster and only the remaster, grey also turn more towards green by checking white balance, i didn't see anything wrong so i only did a hue shift and everything turned like it was on the old artwork
SO i think that it can and i am pretty sure it is, can be perfectly deliberate color grading

curiously Dragon Quest DaÏ done by Toei are perfectly graded and match the old vhs recordings unlike samurai troopers one

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by jjgp1112 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:55 pm

You're speaking as if color grading is just something that's unintelligibly doled out at random.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Scsigs » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:16 pm

When it comes to color grading, it's something that's done because of TVs of the time the material is made, yes, but it shouldn't be done to the extreme that Toei does the green tints. For instance, if you watch the original 480i SD masters of Star Trek TNG from the 80s & 90s, the majority of the episodes, especially early on, hare heavily pink &/or yellow-skewed. I remember that from when I watched the show on Netflix 10 years ago. The HD remaster CBS did from 2011-2014 have a warmer, mostly normal color pallet, though some episodes, like Elementary, Dear Data, have a heavy blue skew to the colors. Hell, Star Trek Into Darkness also has a blue skew to the colors in that movie. One of the BRs put out for The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly, I believe, also had an ugly yellow tint, which the studio claimed was the director's original vision, despite it not being in any master beforehand, which they then corrected in a later BR.

And, the Pokemon Blu-Ray set of the first season had a blue tint added to the episodes to make them look HD. Hell, the old Death Note DVDs also have a yellow skew to the colors, but the 2015 BRs corrected for that. The Sailor Moon BRs & DVDs put out by Viz Media are also skewed more red & yellow than they should be, on top of the colors being over-saturated. I believe this was also a problem with the old Cowboy Bebop DVDs that they corrected when they remastered it in HD.

Overly blue tints are often annoying, but more tolerable than green, red, or yellow, in my observation at least.
Last edited by Scsigs on Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:17 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:55 pm
You're speaking as if color grading is just something that's unintelligibly doled out at random.
absolutely not, i just explained that the green tint is probably deliberate or caused by the remastered process
because if Ajay didn't linked that where you could have red tint, yellow tint, bluish tint before, now lot of anime remaster are green and only green (dbz movies, kimagure orange road, nadia and the blue water secret etc) and strangely most movies that are released in theater use green gradation like if actual taste was to make everything green (even french movies that are released with this kind of green)

here a promotionnal photo from the movie not tinted
Image

here in the movie
Image

so i totally can't trust that it's irrelevant to link green gradation to the everything green in actual remastering of old show, movies, anime

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by dragonmagico » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:45 pm

Scsigs wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:15 pm

To compound all of that, FUNi's master apparently had the green tint in the movie theater, meaning they reused it for home media. On top of that, that doesn't account for the fact that the movies were put on Amazon Japan, or that Kai: TFC was initially made for INTERNATIONAL AIRINGS before being aired in Japan when Toei needed something quick to replace Toriko. Sorry if I'm a bit rude here, but do people here not know these things?
Can confirm, I saw super broly in theaters, i wondered why they went with a weird green art style, then i saw the UK master and just got even more confused. I mean yeah why would anyone be surprised toei only sent funi 1 master and expected them to use it for everything, but the issue is that toei cursed the master they sent out to not just funi but even other distributors. they never let us have nice things without working for it

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Ajay » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:25 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:55 pm
You're speaking as if color grading is just something that's unintelligibly doled out at random.
Pretty much this. There's a massive difference between the depth of the work that goes into a professional colour grade vs the bizarro tints found on these iffy remasters.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:59 am

Ajay wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:25 pm
jjgp1112 wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:55 pm
You're speaking as if color grading is just something that's unintelligibly doled out at random.
Pretty much this. There's a massive difference between the depth of the work that goes into a professional colour grade vs the bizarro tints found on these iffy remasters.
you don't take the point but if you can't explain why all thoses remaster have green tint for all of them , how can you reject theory that they color graded to green thoses remaster? you can't reject any theory if you don't even know the truth about it.

as you know more than me how color degrade, it should not degrade all in the same directions but here all thoses remaster goes into the same direction that strangely is toward the same colors as actual color grading awful taste

The samurai troopers was to show that it was color graded toward green deliberately cause it's not a random tint, it's white balance so it's a gradation not a degradation SO thoses dbz movies can perfectly have been graded toward green for whatever reason . i wanted to show that "Anime" aren't exceptions , as an example the exact same settings allowed me to correct 100% of the show without any kind of splitting so it's an evidence that it's deliberate, more than that, for this show it's not even the original intended colors as cels , artwork etc don't shared the same colors.

when a film print degrade it became randomly depending some conditions red, yellow or blue or some mixed colors like green, orange etc, but here thoses remasters are green allways green meaning it cannot be be explained by "degradation" but it's related to calibration or grading (if you check Toei movies bd and web dll , they don't even have exactly the same colors so you can't say that BD colors wasn't a deliberate choice instead of how the footage is looking now) , and taking into consideration that professionnel grading nowadays mostly use green gradation is for me everything except a random fact .

If you can't connect thoses situations between them SO
explain me why old remaster have the same tint as the actual taste in color grading ?

it's only logical.

if you can't explain but keep rejecting my theory then it's useless to argument anymore cause it will be more an "ego" matter than anything else. I know you are a famous well known people into the db fandom and i myself is really impressed by what you know about production but it doesn't mean that you are allways right and in that situation, your arguments are nonsence to me

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:17 am

ah and i forgot: How can you say if actually a green tinted movie was deliberately graded green or that something in the mastering process, turn it green? as an example for the french movie photo i shown, why colors are green tinted (white are green) in the movie but not in everything else?
how can you know that green tinted star wars episode 9 (white point are green) are deliberately professionnaly graded green?

you litteraly don't know what happen so how can you know what it cannot be? mostly with similar results?

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