Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

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Lightningexpose
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Lightningexpose » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:09 am

I'm not sure who's arguing what here, but my opinion on the matter is that yeah making things green is a popular grading style for some reason but sometimes it looks like a technical issue.

I don't have any examples, but if you look at Kai TFC, even though the whole thing has an ugly yellow/green grade throughout the whole thing, sometimes the whites are actually balanced and there's no (strong) green tint on them. Other episodes, along with the yellow/green grade the whites themselves look tinted (like Broly US BD), and I assume that there is a technical issue on some episodes.

If you look at the Trunks TVSP remaster by Toei last year, you'll see the same thing. Whites are more or less balanced but the overall thing has a green/yellow grade...so yeah, it seems to just be that most "colorists" these days are dumbasses who think green looks s0 co0l s0 cinEmAtIC and throw it on. Funnily enough, though, if the whites aren't balanced on that TVSP, the whites are more like red or purple than green...lol

When it's merely a tint, like US BD of Broly, I wouldn't call that a green/yellow grade since it's literally just nothing more than a tint that you can more or less remove by adjusting the RGB levels of your screen.

What TFC, TVSP2 remaster and some of the 2018 Movie remasters suffer from (like DB Mov 3 from top of my head) look to be dumb grading. The other movies I can't tell for sure whether it's a grade or tint, but those look to be more on the too yellow/too orange side than a green tint? Can't remember. But yeah DBS Broly BD looks to be a technical issue (or some preemptive measure to counterbalance an issue with theater screens).

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:15 pm

Lightningexpose wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:09 am
I'm not sure who's arguing what here, but my opinion on the matter is that yeah making things green is a popular grading style for some reason but sometimes it looks like a technical issue.

I don't have any examples, but if you look at Kai TFC, even though the whole thing has an ugly yellow/green grade throughout the whole thing, sometimes the whites are actually balanced and there's no (strong) green tint on them. Other episodes, along with the yellow/green grade the whites themselves look tinted (like Broly US BD), and I assume that there is a technical issue on some episodes.

If you look at the Trunks TVSP remaster by Toei last year, you'll see the same thing. Whites are more or less balanced but the overall thing has a green/yellow grade...so yeah, it seems to just be that most "colorists" these days are dumbasses who think green looks s0 co0l s0 cinEmAtIC and throw it on. Funnily enough, though, if the whites aren't balanced on that TVSP, the whites are more like red or purple than green...lol

When it's merely a tint, like US BD of Broly, I wouldn't call that a green/yellow grade since it's literally just nothing more than a tint that you can more or less remove by adjusting the RGB levels of your screen.

What TFC, TVSP2 remaster and some of the 2018 Movie remasters suffer from (like DB Mov 3 from top of my head) look to be dumb grading. The other movies I can't tell for sure whether it's a grade or tint, but those look to be more on the too yellow/too orange side than a green tint? Can't remember. But yeah DBS Broly BD looks to be a technical issue (or some preemptive measure to counterbalance an issue with theater screens).
Yes but even if there is green gradation and simple tint, thoses two are green and that is what i found very curious. i don't say that it's the same things technically but that partially or totally sometimes, i think that somewhere there is a deliberate purpose in the process.

If you take several old show dvd remaster or vhs, you'll get random tint but now it's allways the same tint and as it can't be something random then maybe it's something applied to the footage deliberately.

Maybe green tint is a kind of standard (like you said " to looks s0 co0l s0 cinEmAtIC " ) but some movies sometimes have green tint . like i said star wars 7 was deliberately graded and each scene have his own gradation , but if you take star wars 9. it's allways green and i see no purpose in green colors in star wars movies mostly when older aren't green , white aren't balanced and i don't think that's it's something deliberate but a kind of settings that can be deliberately or accidentaly applied on it

maybe some studios apply this green gradation by altering few hue (so don't alter white balance like in samurai troopers) OR they just throw a green tint filter that will make everything green and that's all

i am not a professionnal nor a specialist, only someone pretty logical using his brain and not talking using his ego like if i am allways right or whatever else but ajay can't say "it's not the same things" without even knowing what happened and why it's allways green.

we all know that movies degrade differrently and when you cc, you need to do it part by part if it's not frame by frame cause of alterations being differrent in every part so it can't be something where human don't have part on it.

my theory about the dragon ball movies is that they didn't correct white balance, so you have the movies with tint and hue degraded like in dbox but i think that on top of that, they have altered hue to get a green result , so if you have nice frames, white is okay but if it's degraded it look green but white aren't balance . it can also explain why in the tvsp2 , you have red colors very very very dark and strange

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Lightningexpose » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:37 pm

It's not always random tint in past stuff. I notice a few same types of tints that used to show up.

once upon a time a lot of anime masters used to always have a blue/cyan tint to them like these examples:
Then there's usually always brown/red tinted stuff showing up, like these examples:
Based on those examples, I would assume maybe late 90s stuff were afflicted with brown-ish tints a lot while 80s and early 90s stuff went through some process that led to blue/cyan tints. Maybe green tints are just the new technical issue, I don't know. Just a very loose guess, not a serious theory.


The examples you posted on page 53 are all just wayyy too diverse for me to put them all in the same category and discuss them. Sure, they all have strong green values but each example you posted is so different from one to the next.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:45 pm

i didn't wanted to compared them as some are old, some are new, some are deliberate choice etc but i point the similarity between them with the use of green color very abusively and it can't be something unrelated.

I don't say either that ALL new movies use green gradation and all remaster use green tint BUT i noticed that since more than 3-4 years, the green is hugely spread in anime / movies remaster (like bruce lee movies) and the green gradation in some movies

i don't have explanation yet (i send a message to the laboratory in France that did the asterix remaster green tinted to know why but i don't expect an answer)

but i can't accept that cause technically it's not the same things or that in some movies they wanted it, that it's not somewhere related

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Captain Awesome » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:06 pm

I think its lost on some people here that the "masters" they're comparing are from different sources. You can't compare an aged 16mm print with a composite transfer digi-beta tape. There are inherent colour issues associated with each medium.

The Dragon Boxes are actually a good example - the magenta dye on some 16mm film stock tends to be the longest lasting which is why you'll see a red tint throughout most of the series as the other colours fade.

I guess there are some valid points to be made about modern colour grading - but I think that is a separate issue from this topic entirely.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Lightningexpose » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:59 am

Is the mention of the digibeta sources in reference to the screen caps I posted?

If so, I wasn’t comparing 16mm film fading to digibeta flaws. Was literally only showing old composite masters to show that the technical processes involved in developing those masters left them typically with either a cyan tint or a brown tint. They don’t look like aged film to me especially considering most of those 90s examples are composite/digibeta masters that were done around the time the anime was produced.

Besides idk if anyone is even concerning themselves with 16mm film and its colour attributes here.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:09 am

Captain Awesome wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:06 pm
I think its lost on some people here that the "masters" they're comparing are from different sources. You can't compare an aged 16mm print with a composite transfer digi-beta tape. There are inherent colour issues associated with each medium.

The Dragon Boxes are actually a good example - "the magenta dye on some 16mm film stock tends to be the longest lasting which is why you'll see a red tint throughout most of the series as the other colours fade".

I guess there are some valid points to be made about modern colour grading - but I think that is a separate issue from this topic entirely.
it's not a separate issue, as you said, "the magenta dye on some 16mm film stock tends to be the longest lasting which is why you'll see a red tint throughout most of the series as the other colours fade". BUT SO explain why actual remasters are green? your comment is irrelevant as you explain why it should turn red magenta tinted but facts are that it's green exactly like actual taste in color grading .

Execpt Lightningexpose that seems to understand what i am talking about , is there someone with a brain and enough logical to understand that it's very curious that aged films are green in actual remasters exactly like actual color grading taste are also green ?


people here seems to think "Oh as color grading is not same as remastering colors, then it's not the same things" but can't understand that if degraded footage turn more and more toward the red like you said so why it's green? suddenly films choose to degrade towards green?
so much nonsense here

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Captain Awesome » Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:11 pm

HakkaiBills93 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:09 am

BUT SO explain why actual remasters are green? your comment is irrelevant as you explain why it should turn red magenta tinted but facts are that it's green exactly like actual taste in color grading .
Except the Dragon Box is a remaster? There are blue tinted episodes in DB and green tinted episodes later in Z these aren't grading choices - they're the aging of the film stock.

HakkaiBills93 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:09 am
people here seems to think "Oh as color grading is not same as remastering colors, then it's not the same things" but can't understand that if degraded footage turn more and more toward the red like you said so why it's green? suddenly films choose to degrade towards green?
so much nonsense here
I'm going to assume English is your second language because I am having considerable difficulty finding a consistent thread to follow anywhere in your disjointed stream of consciousness posts. The point I was making is that you can't compare some digi beta footage to some 16mm prints to make your point about colour grading. These colour issues have more to do with the storage medium than anything else.

In the case of the Netflix/Amazon remasters while we don't have any definitive proof - the fact that we have a non-tinted version of Broly points toward the sickly green tint of those and Boo Kai to be less of a conscious choice and more of a calibration/mastering issue. But by all means continue to ramble incoherently.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:35 am

Captain Awesome wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:11 pm
HakkaiBills93 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:09 am

BUT SO explain why actual remasters are green? your comment is irrelevant as you explain why it should turn red magenta tinted but facts are that it's green exactly like actual taste in color grading .
Except the Dragon Box is a remaster? There are blue tinted episodes in DB and green tinted episodes later in Z these aren't grading choices - they're the aging of the film stock.

HakkaiBills93 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:09 am
people here seems to think "Oh as color grading is not same as remastering colors, then it's not the same things" but can't understand that if degraded footage turn more and more toward the red like you said so why it's green? suddenly films choose to degrade towards green?
so much nonsense here
I'm going to assume English is your second language because I am having considerable difficulty finding a consistent thread to follow anywhere in your disjointed stream of consciousness posts. The point I was making is that you can't compare some digi beta footage to some 16mm prints to make your point about colour grading. These colour issues have more to do with the storage medium than anything else.

In the case of the Netflix/Amazon remasters while we don't have any definitive proof - the fact that we have a non-tinted version of Broly points toward the sickly green tint of those and Boo Kai to be less of a conscious choice and more of a calibration/mastering issue. But by all means continue to ramble incoherently.
ABSOLUTELY NOT you are far than what i was saying, i said that before like in dbox , degraded films tends to have various tint very differrent each others but since few years, when you see something remastered unproperly, it's GREEN and ALLWAYS GREEN

Strangely in actual theater production, taste in color grading are GREEN (joker, man of steel, john wick etc) and i can assume it's not random, it's related by a way or another

it doesn't matter if it's a film print or a digibetas or whatever else, degraded medias would have various tint, if you can't explain why degraded medias are allways green now then you absolutely can't reject the theory that by a way or another one, it's related. sometimes i really feel to talk with retarded people

Green tint on dbs can be a calibration issue as much as it can be a deliberate choice to show it in theater, you can't say it isn't only cause it's corrected in home medias , it's like if you said that harry potter 1 4k release being green is a intended colors where it was properly calibrate before.
Matrix is even more green than it was on dvd or bluray etc etc etc

Ajay is locked on "oh green tint is not the same as green color grading " but if he was smart enough he would understand that green tint is not degradation of medias so what is it? why green? why it's the same color as actual color grading taste?

I can assume also that Star wars 9 green tinted all along the movie (white are green the same as dbs movie ) , like first lord of the ring extended bluray is also green tinted AREN't deliberate only a retard can say that

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