Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:21 am

DHM211 wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote: That's unlikely. It'll probably be the Blu-ray version but uncut.
If they use the BD version of these masters, they will be the exact masters we saw on the BDs, censorship and all.
Not necessarily, the Fathom events showing of Fusion Reborn had DNR and digital sharpening applied but the middle finger was left intact.
Nah. The Fathom ones were the Amazon masters, the grain was just less evident on a projected screen than a PC monitor showing a still screenshot.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:08 pm

Dragon Ball Kai is known for censorship, music edits and being a rushed job but think some of us happen to forget that TOEI also got rid of flippin' the bird back then. I made a comparison and in all instances, Vegeta never displayed the middle finger.

Japanese Broadcast

Image

Japanese Blu-ray

Image

American Blu-ray

Image

It happened before so it's not as if it's that big of a shock but it still sucks TOEI's doing their censoring.

Vegeta in that pose, almost looks as though he's saying "Kuririn, we can do it. Now give me the Dragon Balls!". :P

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:14 pm

Kai was technically intended to be a different product though. The use of a separate musical score, rerecorded dialogue, cuts and openings and endings clearly distinguish it from Z. It was essentially a remake disguised as the original show.

The movie Blu-Rays however were supposed to be remasters of the original movies presented as they were originally intended. Claiming nothing has been changed on the box was just false advertising, much like what Funimation did in 2007, but to an even greater extent when they released the orange bricks.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Bruma rabu » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:21 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:Dragon Ball Kai is known for censorship, music edits and being a rushed job but think some of us happen to forget that TOEI also got rid of flippin' the bird back then. I made a comparison and in all instances, Vegeta never displayed the middle finger.

Japanese Broadcast

Image

Japanese Blu-ray

Image

American Blu-ray

Image

It happened before so it's not as if it's that big of a shock but it still sucks TOEI's doing their censoring.

Vegeta in that pose, almost looks as though he's saying "Kuririn, we can do it. Now give me the Dragon Balls!". :P
Ugh those redrawn scenes. Whole reason I started a dbox cut of kai.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by KBABZ » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:49 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:Kai was technically intended to be a different product though. The use of a separate musical score, rerecorded dialogue, cuts and openings and endings clearly distinguish it from Z. It was essentially a remake disguised as the original show.
I disagree on the basis that Toei's attempts to brand DB Kai as a brand new show was incredibly misguided and paper-thin. I liken it to an official edit that makes the show much more watchable for new audiences that sticks closer to the manga. Many of the complaints regarding Kai (such as the redrawn scenes, new scores and seiyuu performances) are direct comparisons to Z, moreso than Super as a modern sequel product.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Metalwario64 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:50 am

I don't know if anyone else ever thought of it, but recently I was revisiting some late 90s anime (Orphen, Eden's Bowy and Lost Universe in particular), and many of them had an awkward blend of some scenes being cel based animation, with others being early digitally rendered shots, exactly like how Kai was. In Lost Universe's case (and it being a show notorious for an animation breakdown that made episode 5 of Dragon Ball Super look like DBS Broly in comparison) it was cel based, but had shots that were digitally lined and colored, and like Kai usually had super off and vastly different color choices, so they stuck out like a sore thumb.

However, Dragon Ball Kai did this almost exactly a decade after the industry moved beyond that, but in a way it's almost a throwback to that short era.
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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by KBABZ » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:27 am

Metalwario64 wrote:I don't know if anyone else ever thought of it, but recently I was revisiting some late 90s anime (Orphen, Eden's Bowy and Lost Universe in particular), and many of them had an awkward blend of some scenes being cel based animation, with others being early digitally rendered shots, exactly like how Kai was. In Lost Universe's case (and it being a show notorious for an animation breakdown that made episode 5 of Dragon Ball Super look like DBS Broly in comparison) it was cel based, but had shots that were digitally lined and colored, and like Kai usually had super off and vastly different color choices, so they stuck out like a sore thumb.

However, Dragon Ball Kai did this almost exactly a decade after the industry moved beyond that, but in a way it's almost a throwback to that short era.
I've always had an irritation with the way anime blends CG with its traditionally-animated work, specifically in that it makes next to no effort to make the CG look like the traditional stuff. DBS Broly I felt worked fairly well in many scenes, but then there was that one with the giant glowing ball destroying the environment that may as well have come from a Final Fantasy summon for all it fit into the rest of it.

In terms of Kai, yeah, I really don't like how the in-episode redrawn shots make no attempt to age themselves down to at least resemble the original footage.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by Metalwario64 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:21 am

If only Kai had just been made now, then the redrawn shots would have grain and the variable line thickness filter, and at the HD resolution would have actually probably rivaled the footage from the 35mm Namek episodes.
"Kenshi is sitting down right now drawing his mutated spaghetti monsters thinking he's the shit..."--Neptune Kai
"90% of you here don't even know what you're talking about (there are a few that do). But the things you say about these releases are nonsense and just plain dumb. Like you Metalwario64"--final_flash

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by KBABZ » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:27 am

Metalwario64 wrote:the 35mm Namek episodes.
My GOD those episodes look so good!

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by sangofe » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:36 am

JohnnyCashKami wrote:Dragon Ball Kai is known for censorship, music edits and being a rushed job but think some of us happen to forget that TOEI also got rid of flippin' the bird back then. I made a comparison and in all instances, Vegeta never displayed the middle finger.

Japanese Broadcast

Image

Japanese Blu-ray

Image

American Blu-ray

Image

It happened before so it's not as if it's that big of a shock but it still sucks TOEI's doing their censoring.

Vegeta in that pose, almost looks as though he's saying "Kuririn, we can do it. Now give me the Dragon Balls!". :P
The difference is that this was for TV airings... And they have certain standards when it comes to censorship so it's easier to accept.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by KBABZ » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:58 am

sangofe wrote:The difference is that this was for TV airings... And they have certain standards when it comes to censorship so it's easier to accept.
Er, no, two of those examples are for Blu-Rays. The Final Chapters was the one that was made-for-TV all-over and wasn't adjusted for home release, whereas Kai (thank god) had a specialized home release.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by sangofe » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:40 am

KBABZ wrote:
sangofe wrote:The difference is that this was for TV airings... And they have certain standards when it comes to censorship so it's easier to accept.
Er, no, two of those examples are for Blu-Rays. The Final Chapters was the one that was made-for-TV all-over and wasn't adjusted for home release, whereas Kai (thank god) had a specialized home release.
I didn't write the specific example was from a TV capture. I wrote specifically that they were for TV (and ultimately the goal of that is to sell merchandise) . They weren't made for the spesific reason of a Blu-ray release. Why would toei even bother to make an uncut version?

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by KBABZ » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:18 am

sangofe wrote:
KBABZ wrote:
sangofe wrote:The difference is that this was for TV airings... And they have certain standards when it comes to censorship so it's easier to accept.
Er, no, two of those examples are for Blu-Rays. The Final Chapters was the one that was made-for-TV all-over and wasn't adjusted for home release, whereas Kai (thank god) had a specialized home release.
I didn't write the specific example was from a TV capture. I wrote specifically that they were for TV (and ultimately the goal of that is to sell merchandise) . They weren't made for the spesific reason of a Blu-ray release. Why would toei even bother to make an uncut version?
That's kinda what they did though. The NickToons versions had no blood and used glowing orbs instead of halos, among other changes. And of course there's the aspect ratio: the broadcast version of Kai is a 16:9 crop that is done on a per-shot basis like The Final Chapters (so it isn't an Orange Brick generic zoom), while the Blu-Rays are uncropped widescreen.

...oh, unless you're talking about the re-animated shots in particular?

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by eledoremassis02 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:36 am

KBABZ wrote:
sangofe wrote:
KBABZ wrote: Er, no, two of those examples are for Blu-Rays. The Final Chapters was the one that was made-for-TV all-over and wasn't adjusted for home release, whereas Kai (thank god) had a specialized home release.
I didn't write the specific example was from a TV capture. I wrote specifically that they were for TV (and ultimately the goal of that is to sell merchandise) . They weren't made for the spesific reason of a Blu-ray release. Why would toei even bother to make an uncut version?
That's kinda what they did though. The NickToons versions had no blood and used glowing orbs instead of halos, among other changes. And of course there's the aspect ratio: the broadcast version of Kai is a 16:9 crop that is done on a per-shot basis like The Final Chapters (so it isn't an Orange Brick generic zoom), while the Blu-Rays are uncropped widescreen.

...oh, unless you're talking about the re-animated shots in particular?
Thats the funny thing, cause I'm totally for and prefr the 16x9 version of kai where as z has to 4:3

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:54 am

eledoremassis02 wrote:Thats the funny thing, cause I'm totally for and prefr the 16x9 version of kai where as z has to 4:3
FUNimation could have at least opted for one home media platform to be in 16x9 AR than both to be 4x3.

Blu-ray in 4x3 AR, DVD in 16x9 AR just like how it was done in Japan. As such, the transition wouldn't have been so unnatural from Kai to Kai TFC which is widescreen-only.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by sangofe » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:20 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote:
KBABZ wrote:
sangofe wrote: I didn't write the specific example was from a TV capture. I wrote specifically that they were for TV (and ultimately the goal of that is to sell merchandise) . They weren't made for the spesific reason of a Blu-ray release. Why would toei even bother to make an uncut version?
That's kinda what they did though. The NickToons versions had no blood and used glowing orbs instead of halos, among other changes. And of course there's the aspect ratio: the broadcast version of Kai is a 16:9 crop that is done on a per-shot basis like The Final Chapters (so it isn't an Orange Brick generic zoom), while the Blu-Rays are uncropped widescreen.

...oh, unless you're talking about the re-animated shots in particular?
Thats the funny thing, cause I'm totally for and prefr the 16x9 version of kai where as z has to 4:3
I'm talking about the censoring Toei did. Are you saying Toei was behind blue Popo?

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:59 pm

KBABZ wrote:The NickToons versions had no blood and used glowing orbs instead of halos, among other changes.
The Nicktoons censored version was kinda weird, on the one hand they removed entirely No. 16's head being crushed but on the other, they left No. 16 destroyed to pieces like some firework.

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Crushing his head? Censor! Destroying like a piñata? Totally fine!

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by KBABZ » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:17 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:Blu-ray in 4x3 AR, DVD in 16x9 AR just like how it was done in Japan. As such, the transition wouldn't have been so unnatural from Kai to Kai TFC which is widescreen-only.
FUNi had no choice in the matter as it was Toei who opted to make TFC widescreen in every iteration.
JohnnyCashKami wrote:The Nicktoons censored version was kinda weird, on the one hand they removed entirely No. 16's head being crushed but on the other, they left No. 16 destroyed to pieces like some firework.

Crushing his head? Censor! Destroying like a piñata? Totally fine!
If I were to guess, the head crush was removed due to the oil being a strong analogue for blood.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:42 pm

KBABZ wrote:FUNi had no choice in the matter as it was Toei who opted to make TFC widescreen in every iteration.
Well, but France (Kazé or AB, dunno) got the series in 16x9 AR on Blu-ray and DVD. FUNimation could have perhaps done the same but I'm glad it has the Yamamoto score up until episode 52 rather than the Kikuchi score from start to finish.

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Re: Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:05 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
KBABZ wrote:FUNi had no choice in the matter as it was Toei who opted to make TFC widescreen in every iteration.
Well, but France (Kazé or AB, dunno) got the series in 16x9 AR on Blu-ray and DVD. FUNimation could have perhaps done the same but I'm glad it has the Yamamoto score up until episode 52 rather than the Kikuchi score from start to finish.
I guess perhaps it was because when Toei licensed Kai 1.0 to FUNimation back in 2010 they just sent them the Blu-ray masters in their original 4:3 aspect ratio and they simply released those and the same on DVD but in the native lower resolution of the format, which of course looks fine themselves but maybe because after the debacle of the Orange Bricks and releasing the Dragon Boxes concurrently at the same time perhaps they decided to just leave them as is. It would have been nice if perhaps they could have released the sets with both the fullscreen and widescreen version of the episodes if Toei had given them the 16:9 versions as well, even though that doesn't actually exist it would have been a cool feature to include and so fans could have both in whichever aspect ratio they preferred. Of course the Final Chapters always was widescreen so that's the only choice there.

Agreed, i got the Yamamoto versions of the Parts 1-4 sets back then and very glad i did because of course with the second release of Season 1 it was the Kikucki replacement score which i believe was very hastily placed in there without much thought.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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