Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

[Lunaar]

I've been pretty inactive since March, but even after all of the crazy "Broly" news - nothing has convinced me to drop in on the forums until now. Sweet Kami, look at those screenshots! This is the best smidgen of hope for a modern re-release of the movies (and maybe even the entire series!) we've seen in... so long. It's been years. I've been holding off (for what feels like an eternity) on mass-purchasing all the movies for my collection, as the western blu-rays still leave me wanting more. I'm a sucker for combo packages, and the closest we got to that here were DVD thin-paks of four/five movies a-piece... so buying every blu-ray release (sold in packs of two, if I recall) makes me cringe for my shelf space.

I know the news is still fresh and we don't even know much about Japan's plans for home releases... but seeing all of this great material gives me so much hope. Am I wrong to hope for a consistent, proper release of an entire show... just once?? As much as I've been 95.8294556ish*% content with my US Dragon Boxes... it's an incomplete show.
*totally accurate
Also: If these remasters are what Toei will be providing for the upcoming US theatrical screenings, this news almost makes me want to attend them. Almost. No Zawa, No Life.

[Sin]

Since the film-releases in US are coming from Toei and not Funimation, does this mean we will get the footage from these new remasters?

[Robo4900]

MangaUK, in particular should definitely consider looking into it, especially if TOEI cover the series too. They missed the boat on Dragon Boxes and Z Blu-Rays, but there is still a demand for a UK DBZ Blu-Ray release, even moreso if its such a huge improvement over the ones Funi remastered themselves.

You mean Funimation should look into it. MangaUK only rereleases Funimation's dubbed work in Europe.

You are right on that one. Inevitably Funimation will licence this remaster first, if it happens at all but I do hope Manga UK acquire it from them when and if that happens because, as I say there's still a demand for UK DBZ Blu-Rays, moreso if it ends up better than the existing Funi release.

It may not happen for several years. MangaUK are pretty much the worst, which has lead them to only now start releasing the Funi Blu-Rays of the movies in the UK. Naturally, only the Z movies, and they're still in-progress releasing them, so... MangaUK will probably want to hold off on releasing the new masters for a while. So unless these masters take a couple of years or more to release stateside, I don't see them coming to the UK any time soon.

MangaUK *just* finished releasing the FUNi remastered movies on BD. What unfortunate timing. R. I. P ever seeing these in the UK!

What terrible timing!

To be fair, given the fact MangaUK only just started releasing the Funi BDs of the movies, and they never got the DBoxes or the Rock The Dragon box, and they're skipping Kai: TFC... Honestly, I'm not sure the chances of MangaUK ever importing these masters for a release any time soon were that high.

PLEASE give me the DB/DBZ TV series in this quality. Hell, I'd take just the original Dragon Ball!

That's not possible due to the condition the films are in. And they are not 35 mm.

Incorrect. While it would be more grainy, a release looking a lot like this(But in 4:3) of all three series would be very possible to do, and I think that's what they're going to do if these movie masters are successful in Japan.

Since the film-releases in US are coming from Toei and not Funimation, does this mean we will get the footage from these new remasters?

That's a theory I've seen thrown around a lot. I really hope so, but it's hard to be sure.

[sangofe]

You mean Funimation should look into it. MangaUK only rereleases Funimation's dubbed work in Europe.

You are right on that one. Inevitably Funimation will licence this remaster first, if it happens at all but I do hope Manga UK acquire it from them when and if that happens because, as I say there's still a demand for UK DBZ Blu-Rays, moreso if it ends up better than the existing Funi release.

It may not happen for several years. MangaUK are pretty much the worst, which has lead them to only now start releasing the Funi Blu-Rays of the movies in the UK. Naturally, only the Z movies, and they're still in-progress releasing them, so... MangaUK will probably want to hold off on releasing the new masters for a while. So unless these masters take a couple of years or more to release stateside, I don't see them coming to the UK any time soon.

MangaUK *just* finished releasing the FUNi remastered movies on BD. What unfortunate timing. R. I. P ever seeing these in the UK!

What terrible timing!

To be fair, given the fact MangaUK only just started releasing the Funi BDs of the movies, and they never got the DBoxes or the Rock The Dragon box, and they're skipping Kai: TFC... Honestly, I'm not sure the chances of MangaUK ever importing these masters for a release any time soon were that high.

PLEASE give me the DB/DBZ TV series in this quality. Hell, I'd take just the original Dragon Ball!

That's not possible due to the condition the films are in. And they are not 35 mm.

Incorrect. While it would be more grainy, a release looking a lot like this(But in 4:3) of all three series would be very possible to do, and I think that's what they're going to do if these movie masters are successful in Japan.

It's not incorrect. You will never have the same quality with those de graded masters. Even the few 35 mm episodes of Kai proved that quite clearly. Better than what there is on Dbox and DBZ Kai? Hopefully, unless they've degraded a lot since the last scan.

[Robo4900]

It's not incorrect. You will never have the same quality with those de graded masters. Even the few 35 mm episodes of Kai proved that quite clearly. Better than what there is on Dbox and DBZ Kai? Hopefully, unless they've degraded a lot since the last scan.

Dragon Ball, Z, and GT are not degraded to any greater degree than the movies are. The only difference is that it's 16mm film, which means the picture will be a little less sharp, and there'll be some more grain. Provided you've got a good team working on it, it should look great. Remember, Funimation only has third-generation prints(Remember, with film, each generation you go down adds more grain and makes the picture softer), and yet their results from the Levels were rather astounding. So, Toei with the original negatives should be able to give us much better results than even that.

And you have to remember, Funimation's prints are not just third-generation prints, but they're probably a modern set of prints struck from a very old, very cheaply-done set of second-gen prints that would've been done for making prints for TV stations to use during the original run. The film stocks involved here are probably very low quality(They'd have to have 1st and 2nd gen prints of each episode for all 444 weeks they were making the show on film. GT would have gone to videotape from 1st gen film, and copies of that would've gone to TV stations, but before GT's switch over to videotape, 2 sets of film prints for every episode would be expensive to do if they used film of any good kind of stock, so it'd be fairly poor-quality stock), resulting in more grain and more softening than if they were using better film stock... And that's without going into the fact that there's probably a lot of film damage that was baked into Funimation's masters that would be able to be dealt with physically if it's present on the negatives Toei has; for one thing, a machine like the ultrasonic cleaner the BBC use on '60s Doctor Who would probably get rid of most(If not all) of the dirt, dust, etc. on the surface, and because the negative film would have only ever been taken out for the Dragon Boxes and Kai, there won't be any of the other damage that would make its way onto the third-generation prints Funimation would be using(It's possible Funi's prints were struck from a set that were used several times to make prints for TV stations, and to send out copies to any companies like Funi or AB Groupe who wanted film to work with, so a lot of general wear happens), and that's just the stuff that I can think of off the top of my head, I'm sure an expert on this subject could go into a whole litany of things I'm not thinking of on why Toei's masters would be so much better than Funi's...

So, yes, you should be able to get unbelievably good video out of Toei's film masters of the series.

[sintzu]

Am I wrong to hope for a consistent, proper release of an entire show... just once??

I'm happy with Kai but I'd love for the original DB to get that kind of remaster. I really hope they don't stop at the movies as this could end up being the best thing to happen to the franchise if they go all out.

[Robo4900]

Am I wrong to hope for a consistent, proper release of an entire show... just once??

I'm happy with Kai but I'd love for the original DB to get that kind of remaster. I really hope they don't stop at the movies as this could end up being the best thing to happen to the franchise if they go all out.

I would have been happy with Kai if it had covered OG DB and Boo. As it is, it's mostly just a bit of a mess IMO, and a pile of missed opportunities.

[sintzu]

I would have been happy with Kai if it had covered OG DB and Boo. As it is, it's mostly just a bit of a mess IMO, and a pile of missed opportunities.

It's a mess in many ways but it still has enough good to make up for it, at least where I'm concerned. I just want the original DB in HD so I can finally watch the whole original story like that. With that kind of remaster, Toonami could air it again and help give it the recognition it deserves (and needs).

[Lunaar]

I'm happy with Kai but I'd love for the original DB to get that kind of remaster. I really hope they don't stop at the movies as this could end up being the best thing to happen to the franchise if they go all out.

I would have been happy with Kai if it had covered OG DB and Boo. As it is, it's mostly just a bit of a mess IMO, and a pile of missed opportunities.

Even Kai's highest high points can't deter from the fact that the lowest lows far out-weigh the positives. They look fantastic on my shelf and it brings me joy to watch the show with a competent dub, but at the end of the day... it's still an incomplete show with varying levels of problems. ...this isn't a thread about how Kai is better or worse, though. Honestly, Kai is not worth comparing to what we're seeing. It really is in it's own situational vacuum.

[Ajay]

More intense white balance issues across the Z movies:

[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

Probably won't happen, but it'd be nice if they addressed these prior to an inevitable physical release. They're pretty much the only downside on an otherwise stellar product.

[AnimeMaakuo]

More intense white balance issues across the Z movies:

[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

Probably won't happen, but it'd be nice if they addressed these prior to an inevitable physical release. They're pretty much the only downside on an otherwise stellar product.

It's tough to say whether Toei will remaster the series; they're going in the right direction, but keep in mind that some of the movies were 4:3 until DBZ movie 3. Toei's decision to give us more of a "theatrical" presentation in their HD remaster for those particular movies is a major downside. FUNimation had the right idea but failed on the execution. It's unfortunate that you cannot color correct FUNimation's Blu-Rays without having artifacts present, so we'll have to live with the ones from Toei.

Movies = Not a big deal (17 film reels). Series = VERY BIG deal (510 film reels + NEPS on separate reel).

TOEI


FUNi


FUNI CC

[Robo4900]

Series = VERY BIG deal (510 film reels + NEPS on separate reel).

As I understand it, the NEPs are on the prints of the episodes, which would likely have to be used for the OPs/EDs of each episode anyway(Probably the recaps too), as only the actual episode contents were kept as negatives.
So, it's more like 1020 reels. Though, for reference, the HD restoration of Star Trek Next Gen was about 25,000 reels, which was raw footage that had to be checked and edited down to recreate each 45-minute episode of the original, plus the time it took to recreate the effects, and remixing the sound to 7.1... Comparatively, transferring and remastering 510 reels of negatives of the finished episodes, plus the OPs/EDs/NEPs from a further 510 reels of prints of the material, and colour-correcting that all seems quite small. So I think it's fairly manageable for Toei to do this, really.

It's tough to say whether Toei will remaster the series; they're going in the right direction, but keep in mind that some of the movies were 4:3 until DBZ movie 3. Toei's decision to give us more of a "theatrical" presentation in their HD remaster for those particular movies is a major downside. FUNimation had the right idea but failed on the execution. It's unfortunate that you cannot color correct FUNimation's Blu-Rays without having artifacts present, so we'll have to live with the ones from Toei.
[...]
[spoiler]TOEI


FUNi


FUNI CC
[/spoiler]

Actually, they were formatted for both 1.85:1(For the layman: Slightly more than 16:9) and 1.333...:1(For the layman: 4:3). I would prefer it if they did it in the original open-matte 4:3 animation ratio(I do prefer how the movies look open-matte), and I do still hold onto hope that if/when they do a Blu-Ray, they'll include an open-matte viewing option like Batman: Mask Of The Phantasm did, but 1.85:1 is the originally intended cinema viewing ratio, it does fit closer to how TVs are shaped these days, and it's more authentic than the way Funi and Toei have previously done things of rounding it up to 16:9 for the sake of fitting it more closely on modern TVs...
So actually, this release does exceptionally well in that regard.

I do hope there's a 4:3 version included on the Blu-Ray or whatever, but because of how nice this master is otherwise, I won't lose any sleep over that.

I'm happy with Kai but I'd love for the original DB to get that kind of remaster. I really hope they don't stop at the movies as this could end up being the best thing to happen to the franchise if they go all out.

I would have been happy with Kai if it had covered OG DB and Boo. As it is, it's mostly just a bit of a mess IMO, and a pile of missed opportunities.

Even Kai's highest high points can't deter from the fact that the lowest lows far out-weigh the positives. They look fantastic on my shelf and it brings me joy to watch the show with a competent dub, but at the end of the day... it's still an incomplete show with varying levels of problems. ...this isn't a thread about how Kai is better or worse, though. Honestly, Kai is not worth comparing to what we're seeing. It really is in it's own situational vacuum.

Personally, I'm hoping Toei remaster all three original series in this kind of way. If they do that, I think the only time I will watch Kai is for the Ocean dub.

[Lunaar]

So actually, this release does exceptionally well in that regard.

Couldn't agree more.

Personally, I'm hoping Toei remaster all three original series in this kind of way. If they do that, I think the only time I will watch Kai is for the Ocean dub.

Oh, for sure - if they stuck to the transfer method used for all of the original shots (and produced no "new" traced stuff), I would be in heaven.

[superrayman3]

Just took a look at the Amazon video screenshots of this new master and WOW Toei actually attempted a color correction job on the movies for once and honestly the colors look 100x better compared to the DBOX versions (is it 100% correct? no but it's a major step in the right direction and this is how the series should have been treated back in 2003 when the DBOX were being released), and Toei would be crazy to not give these a Blu-ray release (then again it's Toei's been known to be unpredictable and it's that unpredictability which has me worried), I just hope when it happens that they'll include both the open matte 4:3 versions and the 16:9 versions of each film for those who want a choice (probably won't happen but one can only hope).

[Kuwabara]

I don't buy that Toei doesn't know how to do white balance when the stills from movies 1, 2, and 12 look as spot on as they do. Maybe they've thrown up incomplete masters for some of the movies because they just wanted to get them up on the streaming services as quickly as possible? There is a new film coming out to capitalize on.

Since the film-releases in US are coming from Toei and not Funimation, does this mean we will get the footage from these new remasters?

That's a theory I've seen thrown around a lot. I really hope so, but it's hard to be sure.

If movie 8's color correction looks as good as movie 12's, that might point in a positive direction. Could someone post some stills from it?

[fabrebatalla18]

The Japanese audio of this new remastering is horrible, much lower than the old DB Box of the movies.

[sangofe]

The Japanese audio of this new remastering is horrible, much lower than the old DB Box of the movies.

Yeah and that is weird.

[Danfun64]

Well then, how does said Japanese audio compare with the US releases of the movies? On par with the Singles, or as bad as the Double Feature's JP audio?

[Big Boss]

I think people are being a bit harsh on the Dragon Box. Sure it isn't perfect and I am aware of the colour imperfections, but the general image quality is actually pretty great with tons of detail.

This of course excludes the Buu arc, which looks like absolute dog shit. I honestly have no clue what Toei did with it compared to DBox 1 but holy-moly does it look like ass. I usually switch over to Funimation's Blu-Rays if I get to that point in the series.

[fabrebatalla18]

The problems of the Dragon Box (anime) are 2:
- The pathetic quality of Japanese audio, HORRIBLE.
- The color.