"Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

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kaialone
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"Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by kaialone » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:05 am

Okay so, I checked the DB Wiki for the first time in months, and I found that somewhere, someone has dug up an old scan of a V-Jump magazine that does indeed call Tullece "Goku's older brother"

Link to the article:
https://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Turles

The image in question:
Image


What I want to discuss here is, do you think that based on this it's "acceptable" to include this as information on one's site? Is it good enough of proof?

For me personally, I feel like one older video game magazine scan, that probably just had one of its writers mess up and they failed to catch and correct it, is not enough. I see mistakes like this all the time. But I do see why it would be a noteworthy tidbit regardless.

What do you think? Sorry if this has been a point of dicussion already.
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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:38 am

It was probably brought up due to the fact that this very site dug up that information in a V-Jump:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2018/07/26/ak ... 91-v-jump/

It's noted to be an error considering how recent the Tullece film was at the time.

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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by Grimlock » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:28 am

Wiki listed Turles as Goku's brother? Wiki being wiki, as usual. :lol:

No, that is not enough to say Turles is Goku's brother, that was not said in the actual movie. That is just a mistake that if a site wants to cover it, do it by writing a text explaining stuff, but never lists it as if it was a fact because it is not.

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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by Sin » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:34 am

Grimlock wrote:Wiki listed Turles as Goku's brother? Wiki being wiki, as usual. :lol: And I unfortunately still see to this day people here on Kanzenshuu using it as a source.

No, that is not enough to say Turles is Goku's brother, that was not said in the actual movie. That is just a mistake that if a site wants to cover it, do it by writing a text explaining stuff, but never lists it as if it was a fact because it is not.
To be fair the Wiki doesn't list him as Goku's brother, it just says that some sources have him as Goku's brother, which is true. And OP wasn't really citing the Wiki anyway, they were questioning the V-Jump scan.

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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by Grimlock » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:43 am

Sin wrote:To be fair the Wiki doesn't list him as Goku's brother, it just says that some sources have him as Goku's brother
It does, it's right there on that list of family. And it goes even beyond because they added it on Bardock's, Gine's and Raditz' articles citing Turles as a member of the family. Wiki is just laughable.
Sin wrote:And OP wasn't really citing the Wiki anyway, they were questioning the V-Jump scan.
He somewhat is, he made a general question (do you think that based on this it's "acceptable" to include this as information on one's site? Is it good enough of proof?) and that includes wiki's website.

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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by Sin » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:02 am

Grimlock wrote:
Sin wrote:To be fair the Wiki doesn't list him as Goku's brother, it just says that some sources have him as Goku's brother
It does, it's right there on that list of family. And it goes even beyond because they added it on Bardock's, Gine's and Raditz' articles citing Turles as a member of the family. Wiki is just laughable.
Sin wrote:And OP wasn't really citing the Wiki anyway, they were questioning the V-Jump scan.
He somewhat is, he made a general question (do you think that based on this it's "acceptable" to include this as information on one's site? Is it good enough of proof?) and that includes wiki's website.
Okay I see where you mean now, under Affiliations. Yes it's odd they list that, as their article even brushes the notion they are brothers to one side.

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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:14 am

It is entirely irresponsible beyond all comprehension to casually list that information and just drop a footnote citation that (barely) further explains it.

This kind of error isn't sufficiently covered by a footnote. It's something that needs to immediately have its context explained literally right alongside its original notation if you're going to point it out at all. Saying "Some media" and leaving it at that is. not. sufficient. holy. fucking. shame. on. you.

There's a reason why, in our post from the other day (which, as noted above, is where this ultimately traces back to in the first place), the very next two words after the translation blurb are "The error..." and the entire thing is written in the context of "this is wrong and here is everything you need to know about how and why it's wrong and here's also more information to read on the same subject matter".
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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by kaialone » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:12 am

Ah, there we go, I figured Kanzenshuu must've dug this up and I just missed it, because who else would have?

And yeah knowing the context here, it seems irresponsible, if not rude to be taking this information out of context and just slap it on there.

There is a point to mentioning it, so people can understand that this error exists at all, which can avoid future confusion, but for that to work the fact that it's an error has to be noted.
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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by Ssjcell » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:51 pm

I remember watching a dub that has turles say that he is goku's brother it was a long time ago

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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:53 pm

Ssjcell wrote:I remember watching a dub that has turles say that he is goku's brother it was a long time ago
All of this is covered (with accompanying video clips) in the very "Rumor Guide" entry that we cite in our most recent post:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/rumor/characters/
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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by linkdude20002001 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:43 pm

VegettoEX wrote:It is entirely irresponsible beyond all comprehension to casually list that information and just drop a footnote citation that (barely) further explains it.

This kind of error isn't sufficiently covered by a footnote. It's something that needs to immediately have its context explained literally right alongside its original notation if you're going to point it out at all. Saying "Some media" and leaving it at that is. not. sufficient. holy. fucking. shame. on. you.

There's a reason why, in our post from the other day (which, as noted above, is where this ultimately traces back to in the first place), the very next two words after the translation blurb are "The error..." and the entire thing is written in the context of "this is wrong and here is everything you need to know about how and why it's wrong and here's also more information to read on the same subject matter".
I agree with you, and it certainly is very frustrating and upsetting... However, then I remembered that it's Dragon Ball Wiki; a Dragon Ball "information" site that treats rumors and fanfics as fact. This is unfortunately exactly the kind of thing they would post as fact. Tho, I'm honestly surprized if it didn't already list Tullece as Gokuh's brother even prior to Kanzenshuu's post on the error. If some random dub said it's true (or a mistranslation, or a rumor, or fanfic...), then it's true on the Wiki......
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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by KBABZ » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:39 am

The trivia entry now reads:

"In November 1991 issue of V-Jump, it is erroneously noted that Turles is Goku's older brother."

At the same time though, looking into the page's edit history, Jjgp1112 removed the bit in Turles' character box that says he's Goku's brother... then DragonEmperor comes in and reverts that edit away (and the page is now only editable by mods and Fanon staff). And even just doing a cursory look into him DE reveals he's not very well-liked for his edit-reverting. Sounds like a lot of internal politics going on actually.

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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:38 am

KBABZ wrote:The trivia entry now reads:

"In November 1991 issue of V-Jump, it is erroneously noted that Turles is Goku's older brother."

At the same time though, looking into the page's edit history, Jjgp1112 removed the bit in Turles' character box that says he's Goku's brother... then DragonEmperor comes in and reverts that edit away (and the page is now only editable by mods and Fanon staff). And even just doing a cursory look into him DE reveals he's not very well-liked for his edit-reverting. Sounds like a lot of internal politics going on actually.
Sounds like Zamasu was right :evil:
I wonder, if they can be bought out, so this garbage can be corrected and made into a proper wiki :think:

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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by KBABZ » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:40 am

dbgtFO wrote:
KBABZ wrote:The trivia entry now reads:

"In November 1991 issue of V-Jump, it is erroneously noted that Turles is Goku's older brother."

At the same time though, looking into the page's edit history, Jjgp1112 removed the bit in Turles' character box that says he's Goku's brother... then DragonEmperor comes in and reverts that edit away (and the page is now only editable by mods and Fanon staff). And even just doing a cursory look into him DE reveals he's not very well-liked for his edit-reverting. Sounds like a lot of internal politics going on actually.
Sounds like Zamasu was right :evil:
I wonder, if they can be bought out, so this garbage can be corrected and made into a proper wiki :think:
Honestly the better bet is to wait for the Kanzenshuu wiki to be released. It's gathered steam and honestly, shit like this is exactly why Vegetto and the guys were justified to have the editorial team be invite-only. Just browsing through the Talk Pages of the users reveals thousands of complaints about Battle Power editing, reverting valid edits, insults, personal agendas, and a complete and 100% lack of will to cover the Japanese side except to bolster their own English-based arguments (the Tullece debate being a perfect example). And while I personally have always been at least a tad disappointed that Kanzenshuu doesn't expand its reach a little bit to cover stuff outside of Japan more often, it's inarguable that the Japanese side of the franchise is what's most important to cover because that's where everything about the franchise comes from. Anything else is an interpretation, even in Spanish.

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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by jjgp1112 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:51 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
KBABZ wrote:The trivia entry now reads:

"In November 1991 issue of V-Jump, it is erroneously noted that Turles is Goku's older brother."

At the same time though, looking into the page's edit history, Jjgp1112 removed the bit in Turles' character box that says he's Goku's brother... then DragonEmperor comes in and reverts that edit away (and the page is now only editable by mods and Fanon staff). And even just doing a cursory look into him DE reveals he's not very well-liked for his edit-reverting. Sounds like a lot of internal politics going on actually.
Sounds like Zamasu was right :evil:
I wonder, if they can be bought out, so this garbage can be corrected and made into a proper wiki :think:
That won't happen until the main admin, 10xKamehameha, either leaves the site or pulls his head out of his ass. As it stands, it's a plagued Wiki that is obtusely committed to being wrong.
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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by KBABZ » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:49 am

jjgp1112 wrote:That won't happen until the main admin, 10xKamehameha, either leaves the site or pulls his head out of his ass. As it stands, it's a plagued Wiki that is obtusely committed to being wrong.
You're doing God's work, dude. The Kanzenshuu wiki can't come soon enough.

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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:19 am

The current Fandom/Wikia install (not to mention the larger corporation as a whole) and this particular wiki's moderation/administrative team's actions certainly do(es) say everything that needs to be said.

We understand the frustration with this platform more than anyone else; I guarantee you that. There are certainly reasons why we do things the way we do them, and we appreciate your understanding as we words toward our goals. In the meantime, you can help with your continued support of the current website as-is (reading, listening, posting, sharing) alongside your continued enthusiasm for our wiki project.

Basically: keep being nice, thoughtful (yet critical!) people that enjoy what we do and keep telling the world what we're doing. Thank you!
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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by jjgp1112 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:01 pm

In case you guys need to see how committed that site is to obtuseness:

"Its being placed in the appropriate location for the information (the family sections). It is concrete info and is 100% true - because it's official info and there is no canon. Turles not being Goku's brother is also concrete info and 100% true - because it's official info and there is no canon. We can't pick one or the other, that's not how this wiki works, there is no official word on what if true and what is false"

What sense does this make?
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Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by kudo6000 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:25 pm

How is it considered "official" if no confirmation from the film stating Tullece and Goku are siblings exists?

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Re: "Proof" that Tullece is Goku's brother?

Post by MrTennek » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:07 pm

VegettoEX wrote:This kind of error isn't sufficiently covered by a footnote. It's something that needs to immediately have its context explained literally right alongside its original notation if you're going to point it out at all. Saying "Some media" and leaving it at that is. not. sufficient. holy. fucking. shame. on. you.
Getting this up in arms over inaccurate lore for a silly action anime... :roll: First world problems. :lol:

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