"GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Xeogran
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1952
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:04 am
Contact:

"GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by Xeogran » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:00 am

I see this being pushed a lot, to the point it made me wonder why is it being repeated far more than it should.

GT already starts with Goku getting weakened (losing Teleport & SS3 mastery) after becoming a kid.

Then, at multiple times, he has to team up with others to win. He couldn't just powerhouse his way to win:

Remember Luud, who required Pan to blast him from the inside? For Baby he needed assistance of everyone else all the time, Uub included (who also gets accussed of doing nothing.)

Super 17 had everyone stall him, then 18 being the key player for winning. Literally the same thing happened against Beerus, yet I don't see it being mentioned as much (everyone stalling until Goku's inevitable return to save them)

Meanwhile in Z, Goku solved all of the conflicts in a similar manner too, yet nobody really realizes it, because it was disguised under someone else.

Take for example Trunks finishing Mecha Freeza. It's cool someone else finished off the main villain. But what we learned next? That if Trunks didn't appear, Goku would land a hour later and do the same thing.

Or in another case, the characters had to play dumb just so Goku gets a chance to fight the main villain (Cell/Buu)

I mean he is the main character, it's obvious most screentime will belong to him. I don't see why only GT gets the flack for it though, and find it pretty unfair.

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 3669
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:20 am

I mean, "Goku Time" comes from the American fan perception that if a character isn't frequently winning or being a massive part in frequent major fights, then they are totally irrelevant, therefore everyone in GT who isn't Goku is an irrelevant side-issue who doesn't matter. Combine that with the irrational hate boner the American fandom has for GT, and the "Goku Time" thing spreads like wildfire. So, of course it's an exaggeration.
A somewhat self-indulgent thesis on my current outlook on Dragon Ball fandom, which I feel should be below every post I make from now on:

User avatar
Sin
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 788
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:24 pm
Location: England

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by Sin » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:40 am

Goku's the main character, he is probably going to defeat the big bad. I don't subscribe to the idea of 'Goku Time', and whether they utilized other characters enough is a different concern, the show can still be centered around the main character but with great contributions from supporting cast.

ricky84
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by ricky84 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:50 am

Robo4900 wrote:I mean, "Goku Time" comes from the American fan perception that if a character isn't frequently winning or being a massive part in frequent major fights, then they are totally irrelevant, therefore everyone in GT who isn't Goku is an irrelevant side-issue who doesn't matter. Combine that with the irrational hate boner the American fandom has for GT, and the "Goku Time" thing spreads like wildfire. So, of course it's an exaggeration.
Because its true. Goku is the only character to do anything of note in GT, especially with how he soloed every single shadow dragon. This was not the case in Z, Super nor even Early DB.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 17563
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: VA
Contact:

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by ABED » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:54 am

ricky84 wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:I mean, "Goku Time" comes from the American fan perception that if a character isn't frequently winning or being a massive part in frequent major fights, then they are totally irrelevant, therefore everyone in GT who isn't Goku is an irrelevant side-issue who doesn't matter. Combine that with the irrational hate boner the American fandom has for GT, and the "Goku Time" thing spreads like wildfire. So, of course it's an exaggeration.
Because its true. Goku is the only character to do anything of note in GT, especially with how he soloed every single shadow dragon. This was not the case in Z, Super nor even Early DB.
THat's not true. He needed Giru's help to defeat the first dragon, and it was Pan that destoyed the the dragon in that fishing village.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Forte224
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1399
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:56 pm

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by Forte224 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:03 am

The discrepancy is pretty clear in my opinion. Pre-GT, Goku definitely influenced all of the main fights, but GT Goku ended nearly each and every fight. Freeza and Cell were villains Goku failed to actually finish off. That's interesting to me. GT Goku constantly getting the final blow made it feel cheap like the movies, where often the same exact thing happened.

It's definitely the Goku show, I agree with that. But at least pre-GT, the degree to which it was the Goku show wasn't as in your face.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by sintzu » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:15 am

The reason GT is called that is because no one other than Goku got to do anything meaningful in the story. The problem with GT is that it was too afraid to give anyone any kind of meaningful screen time which went beyond them not contributing to the main fights.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Xeogran
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1952
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:04 am
Contact:

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by Xeogran » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:17 am

Forte224 wrote:The discrepancy is pretty clear in my opinion. Pre-GT, Goku definitely influenced all of the main fights, but GT Goku ended nearly each and every fight. Freeza and Cell were villains Goku failed to actually finish off. That's interesting to me. GT Goku constantly getting the final blow made it feel cheap like the movies, where often the same exact thing happened.

It's definitely the Goku show, I agree with that. But at least pre-GT, the degree to which it was the Goku show wasn't as in your face.
Only "Cell". With Freeza, it was literally a guy from the future coming to end him, and the Original Timeline had Goku do it. If not it, then RoF happened anyway.

Cell should consider himself lucky he didn't return for that
sintzu wrote:The reason GT is called that is because no one other than Goku got to do anything meaningful in the story.
He surely built the Spaceship, turned SS4 and made Genki Dama out of his own accord :lolno:

User avatar
Forte224
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1399
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:56 pm

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by Forte224 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:21 am

Xeogran wrote:
Forte224 wrote:The discrepancy is pretty clear in my opinion. Pre-GT, Goku definitely influenced all of the main fights, but GT Goku ended nearly each and every fight. Freeza and Cell were villains Goku failed to actually finish off. That's interesting to me. GT Goku constantly getting the final blow made it feel cheap like the movies, where often the same exact thing happened.

It's definitely the Goku show, I agree with that. But at least pre-GT, the degree to which it was the Goku show wasn't as in your face.
Only "Cell". With Freeza, it was literally a guy from the future coming to end him, and the Original Timeline had Goku do it. If not it, then RoF happened anyway.

Cell should consider himself lucky he didn't return for that
Well, the original timeline isn't the timeline the story focused on. In the main timeline we're focused on, Trunks did it. I don't include RoF in this. Your OP was specifically referring to the original story.

Also, I'm not sure why you think the original story doesn't get flack for it being "the Goku show". Plenty of people have consistently complained that their favorite character ended up being nothing but a side character waiting for Goku to come save them.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 17563
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: VA
Contact:

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by ABED » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:26 am

He didn't kill Freeza but he did soundly defeat him. I find this issue rather silly. Goku's the main character, so of course more often than not, Goku will be the one to defeat the big bad.

DB isn't an ensembe story. It's almost always been Goku's journey. Only towards the end of the original run did it try to transition away from him.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by sintzu » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:37 am

ABED wrote:I find this issue rather silly. Goku's the main character, so of course more often than not, Goku will be the one to defeat the big bad.
The issue isn't him taking down the main villains or even being the main character, it's the fact that no one else gets to do anything important. Look how the Namak arc was structured where Goku was the main character, took down the main villain but others such as Vegeta and Piccolo played a very major role in it as well. DB's 3 tournaments also centered around Goku but that didn't stop them from giving the others their time to shine as well.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 17563
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: VA
Contact:

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by ABED » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:45 am

sintzu wrote:
ABED wrote:I find this issue rather silly. Goku's the main character, so of course more often than not, Goku will be the one to defeat the big bad.
The issue isn't him taking down the main villains or even being the main character, it's the fact that no one else gets to do anything important. Look how the Namak arc was structured where Goku was the main character, took down the main villain but others such as Vegeta and Piccolo played a very major role in it as well. DB's 3 tournaments also centered around Goku but that didn't stop them from giving the others their time to shine as well.
I think that's easier to accomplish with the structure of a tournament and a quest. Goku's not in every fight, so clearly the other characters will have a spotlight. Then the quest for the DB's gives a lot of possibilities for characters to do things other than fight and gives the opportunity for reversals, but not every DB story can be that.

In GT, it's not as though other characters didn't do things vital to the story. Without 18, Goku can't defeat 17. Without Elder Kaioshin and Pan, Goku can't become Super Saiyan 4. They're small but vital.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by sintzu » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:55 am

ABED wrote:I think that's easier to accomplish with the structure of a tournament and a quest. Goku's not in every fight, so clearly the other characters will have a spotlight. Then the quest for the DB's gives a lot of possibilities for characters to do things other than fight and gives the opportunity for reversals, but not every DB story can be that.
GT's structures were begging for the others' involvement. You had 7 dragon balls spread across 7 planets yet Goku had to be the one to collect all of them ? why not let each Z fighter go after one instead ? or a pair of 2 characters per ball ? same thing with the shadow dragons.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
Xeogran
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1952
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:04 am
Contact:

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by Xeogran » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:59 am

sintzu wrote:
ABED wrote:I think that's easier to accomplish with the structure of a tournament and a quest. Goku's not in every fight, so clearly the other characters will have a spotlight. Then the quest for the DB's gives a lot of possibilities for characters to do things other than fight and gives the opportunity for reversals, but not every DB story can be that.
GT's structures were begging for the others' involvement. You had 7 dragon balls spread across 7 planets yet Goku had to be the one to collect all of them ? why not let each Z fighter go after one instead ? or a pair of 2 characters per ball ? same thing with the shadow dragons.
I agree with the Shadow Dragons part, since everything was happening on Earth there, but not with the Black Star DBs one. That spaceship seemingly was comfortable only for 3 people, so it's not like everyone could just travel outside of Earth. Nowadays it's easier with Whis' Cube and stuff.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by sintzu » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:04 pm

Xeogran wrote:That spaceship seemingly was comfortable only for 3 people, so it's not like everyone could just travel outside of Earth.
You're telling me Bulma couldn't have made more space ships ? anything could be done if the writers wanted but they clearly said multiple times in interviews that they wanted to keep the focus on Goku for as much as possible so that kids wouldn't lose interest.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
DestructoDisc
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed May 16, 2018 1:07 pm

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by DestructoDisc » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:17 pm

GT and its characters are just very overhated in my honest opinion. I didn't think it was as bad as some people make it out to be. Yeah first saga was boring and the last saga wasn't very good, but it was fun seeing Pan and Goku interact more with eachother. I liked the Baby and Super 17 sagas a lot, and I never understood why so many people hated them.

ricky84
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 546
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by ricky84 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:51 pm

ABED wrote:
ricky84 wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:I mean, "Goku Time" comes from the American fan perception that if a character isn't frequently winning or being a massive part in frequent major fights, then they are totally irrelevant, therefore everyone in GT who isn't Goku is an irrelevant side-issue who doesn't matter. Combine that with the irrational hate boner the American fandom has for GT, and the "Goku Time" thing spreads like wildfire. So, of course it's an exaggeration.
Because its true. Goku is the only character to do anything of note in GT, especially with how he soloed every single shadow dragon. This was not the case in Z, Super nor even Early DB.
THat's not true. He needed Giru's help to defeat the first dragon, and it was Pan that destoyed the the dragon in that fishing village.
Goku killed Oceanus Shenron, and Giru wasn't much of help against Haze shenron.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

User avatar
sunsetshimmer
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1666
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Poland/Equestria

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:00 pm

Goku gets a lot more spotlight than other characters and is pretty much the only character that is meant to beat main villain

BUT

He actually barely win by himself. He almost always needed help from others, it's just that he was the one that deals final blow everytime.

So GT isn't "Goku Time" because Goku is the only one that can beat someone.
It's "Goku Time" ONLY because he is main character and most of series is focused on him.

But in this case, original DB is also "Goku Time".
I'd even say OG DB is more "Goku Time" than GT because in GT he gets a lot more help.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by sintzu » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:35 pm

DestructoDisc wrote:GT and its characters are just very overhated in my honest opinion.
I used to say that a lot but I can't anymore as I've tried to re-watch it twice but couldn't finish it so if anything it's not hated enough.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 17563
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: VA
Contact:

Re: "GT = Goku Time" is an exaggeration.

Post by ABED » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:43 pm

ricky84 wrote:
ABED wrote:
ricky84 wrote:
Because its true. Goku is the only character to do anything of note in GT, especially with how he soloed every single shadow dragon. This was not the case in Z, Super nor even Early DB.
THat's not true. He needed Giru's help to defeat the first dragon, and it was Pan that destoyed the the dragon in that fishing village.
Goku killed Oceanus Shenron, and Giru wasn't much of help against Haze shenron.
I'll have to rewatch the former, but the latter, Giru was essential to victory. He's the one that found the unaffected water that allowed Goku and Pan the time to recover from the effect of Haze's pollution powers. It was a small but important contribution.

Edit: I rewatched the tail end of the 6-Star Dragon fight and it's Pan and Goku together who defeat her/him

I'll give you the Dragons at the end, but I think it was the right move to keep the story focused on a core group of characters in the first arc instead of splitting the focus.
Last edited by ABED on Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

Post Reply