Ripper 99 wrote:It barely has a story, characters don't develop at all,
*Has the most complex villain with nuanced motivations and aspirations with a full-scale story alongside what is by far the most ambitious story in the franchise that actually brings light to Goku's reckless obsession with fighting*
"barely has a story"
Sure man, totally. Also, this is the 3rd installment of the anime and a sequel to a manga of 519 chapters in length. Obviously, the characters aren't going to develop as much. Even then, there's still character development whether you actually decide to see it or not.
Zamasu and Goku Black are cliché villains. don't tell me the idea of an Evil Kaioshin and Evil Goku hasn't been there in fanfiction. their motivation is nonsensical and delusional. these types of villains only work if they have a solid backstory which makes the audience relate with him. what does Kaioshin have? he hates mortals from the start for reasons... we don't know. why he hates them other than "mortals cause destruction"? ... we don't know. just repeating some philosophical lines wouldn't make him "Complex" lmao, even if he is complex that still doesn't mean he's good.
Sensui, Nagato have a similar mindset of reforming the world according to their wishes but the difference is we delve into their past and that helps us understand what they want. what do we see in Zamasu? just seeing two Barbarians fight and losing to a mortal isn't really much of a sensible reason. It was incredibly stupid for Zamasu to be pushed over the edge by a primitive barbaric race like the Babarians, OF COURSE any primitive race without much intelligence is going to have a savage nature. What he SHOULD'VE been pushed over the edge by was a more civilized group of people using violence for hedonistic purposes. The fact that the only conclusion he came to after watching these people for so many years (whose universe has people who are civilized given what Gowasu said) is that they're violent and they need to be wiped out WITHOUT showing said stuff is horrible writing. It doesn't matter whether there are people who desire the extinction of humanity, those aren't people we even think about or whose opinions we values. The reason we don't, is because their rationale makes no sense, they have no merit or actual facts to back up their claim. As soon as someone brings up Hitler, another can bring up Mother Teresa. Who cares whether they exist or not? That still doesn't make their arguments any less dumb. Zamasu doesn't have a point because the people he's talking about are not shown in the case of Universe 10, and the people he presumably learns about from Zuno are such a small iota of the entire mortal population. He's trying to justify his ideology and there is no justification. In the case of all the other villains who came before him and have that similar ideology, they are justified. You don't kill life across all 12 universes because a small sliver of the multiversal population like Freeza and the Saiyans and Cell were terrible people and fought. That's just stupid reasoning no matter whether you want to admit it or not. His whole rhetoric is immediately voided when he gets to the Universe 6 Saiyans or the Universe 7 Namekians. Those are peaceful people who CAN fight, but don't choose to when they don't have to. But no, shitty writing has him oversee that and kill them anyway.
Kaioshin from Universe 7 had more reasons to do what Zamasu did since he LOST his fellow Kaioshins because of Boo's rampage who is a mortal. what does Zamasu lose? he is bragging about the mortal from the start but we don't even see why he has thus pre-established hate.
there is nothing "Nuanced" about Zamasu, his motivations are fucking cliché, as if characters with God complex totally don't exist *cough*Sensui*cough*Light Yagami*cough*. there is nothing ambiguous about it lmao, it's a wannabe-complex fucked up badly written arc with fake tension.
BoG was fine but everything after it was trash like seriously? bringing back freeza and giving Goku and vegeta another chance to beat Freeza, Freeza losing the fight with same stamina issue of Namek due to not being used to new form then a retarded ending with God interfering. so the plot is : Bring back Freeza -> make everyone retarded to not pay attention to someone summoning Shen Long even though previously they always used to rush to the point where someone is summoning it -> make goku and vegeta achieve yet another form with lazy recolor over original one and saying they can tap the power of ssj with God ki, awesome now they have different hair colors to select from (3 to be precise) -> then make them act stupid and vegeta behaving with Goku as if Boo arc never happened and they are in Cell arc -> Goku not killing Freeza straight away and standing there like an idiot despite knowing This is the same Freeza who is bad to the core and Goku after Namek doesn't spare enemies if they are a threat like how he asked Gohan to kill cell before he regenerated -> Whis saves the day, wow excellent plot. U6 Tournament is just bunch of fights and recycled character designs and it serves no purpose at all. Goku Black arc only had potential initially but got worser and eventually turned into crap with awful subplots which served no purpose. over acting and pretentious melodrama. ToP is just a garbage mindless entertainment, nothing more than that.
Ripper 99 wrote:Fanfic ideas like multi-colored Saiyan haired forms and Freeza being revived and nonsensical powerscaling and jumping leagues of power ahead in 6 months to the extent of what Freeza did never happened in Z
The original Super Saiyan is literally re-colored hair because Toriyama was too lazy to fill in Goku's hair. This is hardly new territory or any different. Freeza getting a huge power-up contradicts absolutely nothing because there was never a precedent set for what you should expect from his power gains from training. The only legitimately inconsistent power-up is Future Trunks. The same cannot be said about DBZ. Not even close. You're either confused or being biased because the scaling sure as hell wasn't any better in Z.
When he did things like not color in Goku's hair to come up with SSj, or intentionally make things simple, those things gave his story a character and made him himself as a person interesting because he only did those things once, and didn't abuse those things like in Super. how many recolors did you see in DBZ? yellow, yellow and yellow is all i see. even the forms SS, SS grade 2,SS grade 3, SS 2, SS3 all had a distinct look to itself. Freeza Power up is issue because it's done for the sake of fanservice. no dbz villain came back again to become the main villain in New arc, Freeza asspulling his way from being weaker than ssj to ssj blue is awful. Ssj God itself is stronger than vegetto super saiyan and ssj blue is even more so it's ridiculous to think that he could get that much stronger in just 4 months training. Even in Cell arc they had to spend 12 Months in RoSaT. oh please don't, there is no only, #17, Gohan, Freeza, kefla, Kale are another example of retarded power scaling. Roshi goes from weaker than 18 year old Goku to on par with Base Goku Post-Goku Black arc. that's insanely stupid. Goku going ssj blue just to do Kamehameha with Kuririn without explaining why is another example of it.
Ripper 30 wrote:The only time when it was iffy was when Goku and Vegeta's Zenkais exponentially grew (numerically I mean, via the scouters' readings in the Saiyan/Namek arcs) and Piccolo's powerups, that's it
Yeah, you missed a lot of things dude. You and I both know there's a lot more than that.
again, i am not saying Z was perfect but it was definitely not this retarded. for every power up we were given a cool Plot device like RoSaT, Fusion, Potara Fusion, Zenkai Boost and awakening Dormant power.
what does DBS have? a guy who could tank Vegetto Blue's Final Kamehameha but getting sliced by a character who was supposed to be weaker than ssj3 and gathering enough genki from a post-apocalyptic Timeline to beat a guy far above Kid Boo who was killed by the Genkidama of entire Earth in Z, you serious?
Goku getting his ssj God ass beaten by Kefla is so bad.
#17 offscreen getting on par with SSJ Blue.
Gohan getting an Ultimate Form like it's some transformation When elder Kaioshin stated that it was a state of being where all dormant power is in base form.
i can go on... [/quote]
Ripper 99 wrote:you have 17 vs a GoD in Toppo
Yes, it is so inconsistent that 17 did not instantly disintegrate in the face of Toppo. It was made abundantly clear that he had no chance and his barrier was easily broken by it from normal ki blasts. This is a terrible
example of bad scaling.
he should be dead. God of Destruction is like a big feat, you cannot nerf it like that. Android should have got killed by it.
Neither of them. first of all, after 7th Grade i lost interest in DBZ and never really watched more than one arc that too randomly. i was more of a DBZ game fan than show and its only in college that one of my college friend told me about it, i was basically watching DBS and DBZ side by side and the difference was clear. the character development, growth, story, fights and execution was way Better in Z. i kept defending this crap till end of Goku Black arc and i used to watch Hailzeon reviews and then hope that it gets better but episode 66 was the point where i gave up on this crap and just started following it to see how far it goes instead of being interested in plot. ToP is some of the most boring narrative i have ever seen.
Watching Super is like reading a fanfic written by someone who watched the show as a kid and is currently watching the abridged as it airs attempt to write the characters correctly from memory without ever taking the time to actually try to understand the characters. it's Worse than Fan fiction nowdays.
as For pic, thanks for reminding me that i have to change it. i never said dbs doesn't have good stuff. this pic is Takahashi's Goku firing Yusuke's Reigan style ki blast that's why I like it, infact the Takahashi animated Fight in this episode was pretty good but bad outweighed the good in DBS.