Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
NintendoBlaze53
Regular
Posts: 566
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:24 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by NintendoBlaze53 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:26 am

Theoretically yes. Dragon Ball is a 42 volume manga by Akira Toriyama, everything else is take it or leave it as you will. This can be said for any work of fiction that creates spin offs and numerous sequels, Star Trek, Star Wars, Yu-Gi-Oh! any comic book franchise. Until Super undoes something from the original 42 volumes, such as changing End of Z, you can ignore it's existence in the story. Especially since Dragon Ball works under the formula of not having any defined canon as proved by what Super: Broly seems to be doing for the franchise. However it is impossible to ignore it's affects on the fanbase or merchandise, but same can be said for Dragon Ball Heroes which is a whole other can of worms.
"You should enjoy the little detours. To the fullest. Because that's where you'll find the things more important than what you want." -Ging Freecss

If you care about opinionated/critical analysis and reviews of anime, manga and gaming products, feel free to check out my website. https://otakustance.wordpress.com/

User avatar
Forte224
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:56 pm

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by Forte224 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:53 am

Doctor. wrote:
Forte224 wrote:I'm just echoing at this point, but yes of course. Until the series gets George Lucas-ed and existing scenes from the show/manga are replaced with images from Super and old copies of the show/manga are pulled from shelves (like the way we see Hayden Christensen as ghost Anakin in RotJ, and there's no current official release of the unaltered trilogy) then there's no way you can't ignore it.
I mean, Toriyama kinda did that with the Kanzenban release.
Except unaltered versions are still available. Isn't the full color manga unaltered for them? And, what's your point? Those changes have nothing to do with Super.

User avatar
Forte224
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:56 pm

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by Forte224 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:56 am

NintendoBlaze53 wrote:Until Super undoes something from the original 42 volumes, such as changing End of Z, you can ignore it's existence in the story.
Even then, you can still ignore Super. The original 42 volumes have a clear, intended beginning and end by the author. The last volume is a goodbye to the character. Nothing was left to be told, so anyone can still read it beginning to end while ignoring current material and feel satisfied.

User avatar
Doctor.
Banned
Posts: 10529
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:02 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by Doctor. » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:00 am

Forte224 wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Forte224 wrote:I'm just echoing at this point, but yes of course. Until the series gets George Lucas-ed and existing scenes from the show/manga are replaced with images from Super and old copies of the show/manga are pulled from shelves (like the way we see Hayden Christensen as ghost Anakin in RotJ, and there's no current official release of the unaltered trilogy) then there's no way you can't ignore it.
I mean, Toriyama kinda did that with the Kanzenban release.
Except unaltered versions are still available. Isn't the full color manga unaltered for them? And, what's your point? Those changes have nothing to do with Super.
Pretty sure the full color uses the Kanzenban release, actually.

It doesn't have anything to do with Super but it's a George Lucas-esque move of altering the original series.

User avatar
Forte224
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:56 pm

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by Forte224 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:06 am

Doctor. wrote:
Forte224 wrote:
Doctor. wrote: I mean, Toriyama kinda did that with the Kanzenban release.
Except unaltered versions are still available. Isn't the full color manga unaltered for them? And, what's your point? Those changes have nothing to do with Super.
Pretty sure the full color uses the Kanzenban release, actually.

It doesn't have anything to do with Super but it's a George Lucas-esque move of altering the original series.
Ah ok. Well, what I said still applies directly to the person who made the topic, as it doesn't affect the ignoring of Super. Unless there's a new cutaway added to a scene of Zamasu making tea, or Grand Kaioshin mumbling to himself that the potara aren't actually permanent on mortals, or etc. Then we'd have some issues.

As an aside, we don't even have those alterations in any localized manga, like the new ending, right?

mogi67
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2015 12:49 pm

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by mogi67 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:44 pm

ahill1 wrote:As it's displayed in the title, can I just ignore that Super has ever happened? I personally don't think it does any honour to a DB continuity, nor do I think that it's how the events should have been displayed in case that there was a continuity... I just can't watch/read Super and figure it as a true DB continuity, so is it alright that I just ignore Super as a whole, and pretend that DB has ended in the Boo saga with Goku leaving off to train Oob?

Kind of a silly question and maybe unrelated, but I'd still like to hear your opinions.
Yeah dude

I didn't care for Super and I'm not happy about the Broly movie retconning everything, so I'm going to ignore it and go on my merry way

User avatar
Tian
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 847
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:21 pm
Location: Buenos Aires

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by Tian » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:03 pm

Of course you can. Super is just a bridge to EoZ.

It's like SpongeBob SquarePants, why the hell would I wait for a finale for that series when the finale was already made and it's the first movie?
[Enter a cool signature here]

User avatar
GT_Goten10
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by GT_Goten10 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:59 pm

Tian wrote:Of course you can. Super is just a bridge to EoZ.

It's like SpongeBob SquarePants, why the hell would I wait for a finale for that series when the finale was already made and it's the first movie?
Tbh I think they will retcon the End Of Z
GT Fighter

precita
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:10 pm

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by precita » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:08 pm

Unfortunately you can't, since it's a canon continuation. It's not like GT or the movies. For better or worse, it's there.

User avatar
ahill1
Regular
Posts: 731
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by ahill1 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:22 pm

Thanks for the answers, guys. I'd be happy only considering the 42 volumes mangas as apart of the Dragon Ball world, my Dragon Ball world.

The problem arises though when I'm doing an informative post about a certain aspect of the series, in which I'd, willingly or unwillingly, be kinda forced to encompass Super for further accuracy. For example, I can't say that the Kaioshins are the highest ranked Gods in the Universe since... there's other above-ranked Gods in Super. So people would always call my post into question by saying "huuh, there's Daishinkan, Zeno...". So I'd still have to take it into account. I can't even say Freeza destroyed the Planet Vegeta due to sheer fear of a potential Super Saiyajin because in the Super anime and manga Beerus states he ordered Freeza to do such. Not even Planet Vegeta was the original planet of the Saiyajin's anymore...it was actually Planet Salad, which is still kept intact in Cabba's Universe.

So I'd still have to consider a series I don't like when produccing a post about the Dragon Ball Universe.

User avatar
GreatSaiyaman123
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 797
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
Location: Somewhere beyond the sea

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:27 pm

You can do whatever you want, seriously. That would be head canon, though.
Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!

User avatar
Grimlock
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5633
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Conton City

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by Grimlock » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:45 pm

ahill1 wrote:For example, I can't say that the Kaioshins are the highest ranked Gods in the Universe since... there's other above-ranked Gods in Super. So people would always call my post into question by saying "huuh, there's Daishinkan, Zeno..."
Daishinkan and Zeno do not belong to any Universe, that makes Kaioshins/Sozoshins and the Hakaishin still be the highest gods in the Universe.
ahill1 wrote:Not even Planet Vegeta was the original planet of the Saiyajin's anymore...it was actually Planet Salad, which is still kept intact in Cabba's Universe.
Planet Vegeta was never the original planet of the Saiyans. It was originally called planet Plant for a reason.
Games - You are weak. Why are you weak?
Dragon Ball Super - *coughes*
Games - Because you lack... Content.

User avatar
sintzu
Banned
Posts: 13583
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by sintzu » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:13 pm

precita wrote:Unfortunately you can't, since it's a canon continuation. It's not like GT or the movies. For better or worse, it's there.
How is it not ? if he chooses to watch/read DB&Z only and can still get a complete story out of them without the need to watch/read Super then it's exactly like GT and the old movies. Would you say he couldn't ignore if it wasn't written by Toriyama but was otherwise the exact same show ?
ahill1 wrote:I'd still have to consider a series I don't like when producing a post about the Dragon Ball Universe.
You can always point out you're just talking about the original manga.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

User avatar
PFM18
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by PFM18 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:38 pm

You can quite literally do whatever you want, whenever you want. This is no exception.

It is just a shame though since you are missing out :D :D
SheonGT wrote:I do. It feels like nothing but fan service to sell merchandise at this point. You’re telling me that after all of GT, that Pan, Gohan’s daughter can’t go super saiyan despite Trunks doing it in diapers? And that all of a sudden the first female super daiyans are total rule 34 bait?

A total slap in the face. I also just don’t like the digital art, even though it’s the way of modern animation. Can you tell I have a GT bias? :lol:
Yeah I would talk to @Baggie_Saiyan if you are under the impression that it even remotely exists for the sake of selling merchandise. I really don't think the comparison you made with Pan and the Universe 6 Saiyans is a valid one in the slightest.

And yes, your GT bias is quite evident. Although I do envy you for being able to watch GT without falling asleep.
ahill1 wrote:Thanks for the answers, guys. I'd be happy only considering the 42 volumes mangas as apart of the Dragon Ball world, my Dragon Ball world.

The problem arises though when I'm doing an informative post about a certain aspect of the series, in which I'd, willingly or unwillingly, be kinda forced to encompass Super for further accuracy. For example, I can't say that the Kaioshins are the highest ranked Gods in the Universe since... there's other above-ranked Gods in Super. So people would always call my post into question by saying "huuh, there's Daishinkan, Zeno...". So I'd still have to take it into account. I can't even say Freeza destroyed the Planet Vegeta due to sheer fear of a potential Super Saiyajin because in the Super anime and manga Beerus states he ordered Freeza to do such. Not even Planet Vegeta was the original planet of the Saiyajin's anymore...it was actually Planet Salad, which is still kept intact in Cabba's Universe.

So I'd still have to consider a series I don't like when produccing a post about the Dragon Ball Universe.
I mean, we will see in the movie and from what Beerus said, Beerus just authorized the act, he didn't order it. IIRC. Planet Vegeta was never the original planets of the Saiyans. The fact that they massacred another planet and claimed it for themselves literally functions to establish what the character of these people is like.

And yes, if you are going to be discussing the series as a wholel and you make general statements about the series like the ones that you mentioned, you will be forced to mention caveats/qualifiers. You wouldn't have to take it into account you would just have to qualify it by saying "in the original series" like another poster mentioned earlier.

Dbzfan94
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5008
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:16 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:19 pm

I sure as hell do

User avatar
Nokra
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:39 pm
Location: Transcendent Realm

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by Nokra » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:47 pm

Go right ahead but don't be like those typical haters who say they'll drop the show but kept coming back to watch every weekend just to complain some more.

User avatar
Apslup
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:32 pm

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by Apslup » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:13 pm

I guess you can. The End of Z hasn't been altered in order to fit DBS in the timeline (though I think they should), so I guess it's fine to ignore Super if you don't like it.

User avatar
ekrolo2
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7826
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:27 am
Location: Split, Croatia

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:16 pm

I'm approaching the point of regarding Super as Goku's frustrated fighting need dreams during the 10 years he's waiting for Oob to show up.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

User avatar
MasenkoHA
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1712
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:43 pm

precita wrote:Unfortunately you can't, since it's a canon continuation. It's not like GT or the movies. For better or worse, it's there.
It’s there and he doesn’t have to watch or acknowledge it.

I can concede that there will sequels and remakes of John Carpenter’s Halloween. Doesn’t mean I don’t ignore them and pretend it ended after the first

There are fans who pretend nothing before Z or after matters. There are fans who pretend nothing after the original Dragon Ball or at least after the Freeza saga matters or happened.


Surely anyone can ignore a 20 year sequel series to a story that already ended much like the way people ignore straight to video Disney sequels

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 2978
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Can I just ignore Super's existence?

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:42 pm

You absolutely can ignore Super.

People will argue about "Canon" and other nonsense like that, but basically, Dragon Ball has already been a complete story four times before Super came along; the original manga run's end, the end of GT, the Kanzenban revised ending, and Kai's ending. I personally still consider the original anime run of DB, Z, and GT to be the definitive Dragon Ball experience, so as far as I'm concerned, if you don't want to consider Super, that's perfectly fine.

(And of course, if you want to get into the canon debate, good luck on getting a consensus on anime vs manga)
Want Ocean's Dragon Ball Kai dub to see the light of day? Like this Tweet. And if you can, retweet and reply. A Netflix rep encouraged this avenue of drumming up buzz quite enthusiastically, so this may just be the shot that works!!

Post Reply