Freeza is a good character now?

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JohnnyCashKami
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Freeza is a good character now?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:12 pm

Seems so, he's sort of friends with Goku and no longer the villain he once was but are we supposed to forget Freeza almost exterminated the entire Saiyan race? Goku and all Saiyans should want him dead, or at least in Hell for all eternity.

Another Modern DB story change that doesn't go along with Classic DB.

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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by Mewzard » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:14 pm

...Friends? What are you talking about? He clearly still doesn't like Goku, and has gone back to his evil ways with universal conquest. He's certainly not good now.
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:26 pm

Mewzard wrote:...Friends? What are you talking about? He clearly still doesn't like Goku, and has gone back to his evil ways with universal conquest. He's certainly not good now.
He appeared to team up with Freeza on Super. Freeza looks as though it's the only 'villain' that TOEI/Toriyama ever use now for everything, or an unoriginal, bland and classless visually intriguing character, i.e. Jiren.

Not sure calling straight out Freeza as a villain is the right thing but an anti-hero instead from how things are nowadays on the franchise. And yes, I've seen the 2nd trailer of DBS Movie 1 but still feels like he's been changed from the evil monster he once was.

/imo

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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:41 pm

Freeza is still very much evil, don't be mistaken. He literally states upon his resurrection that he does not intend to stop his evil ways. And we all know what Freeza's evil ways are. He invades many cities, he enslaves their people, he doesn't care about anyone and just wants to continue his business based on slavery and death and retain his position as self-proclaimed Emperor of the Universe.

But, as much as I hate to admit that, It's also true that if Freeza hadn't helped in the Tournament, Jiren would have won. I suppose that this redeemed him in the eyes of everyone.

The thing is, Goku does not care about justice. He is not someone like Zamasu who is willing to go to extreme lengths to uphold justice. He literally tells Jiren that he is not a hero of justice. Therefore, I doubt that he truly cares about justice for the Saiyans and for all the other innocents who suffered at the hands of Freeza. Goku is not noble.

Freeza is still evil though. He might play the role of the anti-hero in the future, like in the Tournament, but he is still very morally evil.
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by zarmack » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:52 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
Mewzard wrote:...Friends? What are you talking about? He clearly still doesn't like Goku, and has gone back to his evil ways with universal conquest. He's certainly not good now.
He appeared to team up with Freeza on Super. Freeza looks as though it's the only 'villain' that TOEI/Toriyama ever use now for everything, or an unoriginal, bland and classless visually intriguing character, i.e. Jiren.

Not sure calling straight out Freeza as a villain is the right thing but an anti-hero instead from how things are nowadays on the franchise. And yes, I've seen the 2nd trailer of DBS Movie 1 but still feels like he's been changed from the evil monster he once was.

/imo
You'd have to be naive or delusional if you think Freeza is a "good guy" now. He only teamed up with Goku for the ToP because he would get erased from existence if doesn't. Freeza is a psychopath, people like him are naturally incapable of reforming (nor did anyone expect him to). He didn't help the Z-team in the ToP out of any real altruism and such. He was only motivated be self-interest (to be brought back to life and rule the universe again).

Just because a villain chooses to work with a hero doesn't mean they are turning good.

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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:15 pm

Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by kemuri07 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:27 pm

Is he a good guy? No.

Is Super attempting to groom him into the next anti-hero because he's a popular character?
Most likely.



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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by Tian » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:27 pm

No. He's still a bad guy but only helps the Z gang when there's a benefit for him.
Last edited by Tian on Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:04 pm

He's still a bad guy. He is probably going to leave the Earth alone since he knows that he can't win against UI Goku and they have Beerus on their side.
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:18 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:but are we supposed to forget Freeza almost exterminated the entire Saiyan race? Goku and all Saiyans should want him dead, or at least in Hell for all eternity.
Because the Saiyans were such a lovely and friendly bunch of cuddly teddy bears who were valiant, noble protectors of goodness and decency whom the audience is meant to cheer on and root for, and not at all a bunch of mass murdering, marauding psychopathic space barbarians who were basically an utterly hellish, genocidal terror to virtually anyone they came across.

Minus only retconned Bardock and Gine: the rest of the Saiyans are still the same murderous lackeys of Freeza's amry as they ever were.

And because Goku, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks (either version of him) care so deeply about the Saiyan race's fate that their death is clearly THE main motivating reason for the animosity between the Z Warriors and Freeza, and NOT the fact that Freeza and his men have killed countless trillions of actually innocent people and have tried to kill Goku and his entire cast of friends and family several times now: fuck ALL that, clearly Goku and his family are mostly outraged at Freeza over the deaths of a nameless, faceless mass of brutal, bloodthirsty psycho killers that Freeza wiped out decades ago (after he'd employed them for years beforehand) and who were in fact the REAL heroes of the Dragon Ball saga all along, and not at all the thuggish underlings of Freeza who killed and slaughtered endless swathes of innocent people in his name and on his orders (and sometimes just for fun).
zarmack wrote:You'd have to be naive or delusional if you think Vegeta is a "good guy" now. He only teamed up with Goku, Gohan, and Kuririn because he wanted to get the Namekian Dragon Balls away from Freeza to use for himself. Vegeta is a psychopath, people like him are naturally incapable of reforming (nor did anyone expect him to). He didn't help the Z-team on Namek out of any real altruism and such. He was only motivated by self-interest (to wish for immortality, kill Freeza, and rule the universe).

Just because a villain chooses to work with a hero doesn't mean they are turning good.
Fixed that for you. :P
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by Ssjcell » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:35 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Not gonna lie this makes me hate frieza

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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by Toxin45 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:41 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:He's still a bad guy. He is probably going to leave the Earth alone since he knows that he can't win against UI Goku and they have Beerus on their side.
You do know he will be in the Broly movie right? Also goku can't use ultra insitnct at will.

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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by zarmack » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:43 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote:but are we supposed to forget Freeza almost exterminated the entire Saiyan race? Goku and all Saiyans should want him dead, or at least in Hell for all eternity.
Because the Saiyans were such a lovely and friendly bunch of cuddly teddy bears who were valiant, noble protectors of goodness and decency whom the audience is meant to cheer on and root for, and not at all a bunch of mass murdering, marauding psychopathic space barbarians who were basically an utterly hellish, genocidal terror to virtually anyone they came across.

Minus only retconned Bardock and Gine: the rest of the Saiyans are still the same murderous lackeys of Freeza's amry as they ever were.

And because Goku, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks (either version of him) care so deeply about the Saiyan race's fate that their death is clearly THE main motivating reason for the animosity between the Z Warriors and Freeza, and NOT the fact that Freeza and his men have killed countless trillions of actually innocent people and have tried to kill Goku and his entire cast of friends and family several times now: fuck ALL that, clearly Goku and his family are mostly outraged at Freeza over the deaths of a nameless, faceless mass of brutal, bloodthirsty psycho killers that Freeza wiped out decades ago (after he'd employed them for years beforehand) and who were in fact the REAL heroes of the Dragon Ball saga all along, and not at all the thuggish underlings of Freeza who killed and slaughtered endless swathes of innocent people in his name and on his orders (and sometimes just for fun).
zarmack wrote:You'd have to be naive or delusional if you think Vegeta is a "good guy" now. He only teamed up with Goku, Gohan, and Kuririn because he wanted to get the Namekian Dragon Balls away from Freeza to use for himself. Vegeta is a psychopath, people like him are naturally incapable of reforming (nor did anyone expect him to). He didn't help the Z-team on Namek out of any real altruism and such. He was only motivated by self-interest (to wish for immortality, kill Freeza, and rule the universe).

Just because a villain chooses to work with a hero doesn't mean they are turning good.
Fixed that for you. :P
1. Goku and others actually started caring about the saiyan race after Vegeta's dying speech on Namek. That's when Goku started to embrace his racial pride:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aovcg4CgaBI

So your rant is debunked there :thumbup: .

Also, Goku seemed pretty interested in them some more after meeting Cabba in the Champa arc.

2. False analogy bro. Freeza is a Complete Monster, Vegeta (even at his worst) never was:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... DragonBall

Since he's a Psychopath, Freeza is written in a way to make him psychologically impossible to reform by any means, which was the point of his last moments on Namek and all of Revival of F. It would be just as stupid to expect Zamasu or Cell to become a good guy.

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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:51 am

Freeza is still an evil asshole. He's just become much more cunning and far more tolerable of certain situations that he'd previously lose his cool over, if it can benefit him.

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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by Doctor. » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:05 am

zarmack wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote:but are we supposed to forget Freeza almost exterminated the entire Saiyan race? Goku and all Saiyans should want him dead, or at least in Hell for all eternity.
Because the Saiyans were such a lovely and friendly bunch of cuddly teddy bears who were valiant, noble protectors of goodness and decency whom the audience is meant to cheer on and root for, and not at all a bunch of mass murdering, marauding psychopathic space barbarians who were basically an utterly hellish, genocidal terror to virtually anyone they came across.

Minus only retconned Bardock and Gine: the rest of the Saiyans are still the same murderous lackeys of Freeza's amry as they ever were.

And because Goku, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks (either version of him) care so deeply about the Saiyan race's fate that their death is clearly THE main motivating reason for the animosity between the Z Warriors and Freeza, and NOT the fact that Freeza and his men have killed countless trillions of actually innocent people and have tried to kill Goku and his entire cast of friends and family several times now: fuck ALL that, clearly Goku and his family are mostly outraged at Freeza over the deaths of a nameless, faceless mass of brutal, bloodthirsty psycho killers that Freeza wiped out decades ago (after he'd employed them for years beforehand) and who were in fact the REAL heroes of the Dragon Ball saga all along, and not at all the thuggish underlings of Freeza who killed and slaughtered endless swathes of innocent people in his name and on his orders (and sometimes just for fun).
zarmack wrote:You'd have to be naive or delusional if you think Vegeta is a "good guy" now. He only teamed up with Goku, Gohan, and Kuririn because he wanted to get the Namekian Dragon Balls away from Freeza to use for himself. Vegeta is a psychopath, people like him are naturally incapable of reforming (nor did anyone expect him to). He didn't help the Z-team on Namek out of any real altruism and such. He was only motivated by self-interest (to wish for immortality, kill Freeza, and rule the universe).

Just because a villain chooses to work with a hero doesn't mean they are turning good.
Fixed that for you. :P
1. Goku and others actually started caring about the saiyan race after Vegeta's dying speech on Namek. That's when Goku started to embrace his racial pride:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aovcg4CgaBI

So your rant is debunked there :thumbup: .

Also, Goku seemed pretty interested in them some more after meeting Cabba in the Champa arc.

2. False analogy bro. Freeza is a Complete Monster, Vegeta (even at his worst) never was:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... DragonBall

Since he's a Psychopath, Freeza is written in a way to make him psychologically impossible to reform by any means, which was the point of his last moments on Namek and all of Revival of F. It would be just as stupid to expect Zamasu or Cell to become a good guy.
Goku still thought the Saiyans were scumbags. Freeza brings up Kunzait's exact point, that the Saiyans were a bunch of ruthless thugs responsible for killing of innocents, Goku replies with "That's why we perished."

He felt proud of his heritage after Vegeta died but evidently he didn't care all that much about the Saiyans themselves.

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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by TheMikado » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:23 am

kemuri07 wrote:Is he a good guy? No.

Is Super attempting to groom him into the next anti-hero because he's a popular character?
Most likely.



sigh.
Lord Beerus wrote:Freeza is still an evil asshole. He's just become much more cunning and far more tolerable of certain situations that he'd previously lose his cool over, if it can benefit him.
All this means is that Frieza is the next:

Yamcha
Tien
Piccolo
Vegeta
Android 16
Majin Buu

... etc etc etc... This trope has kinda run it's course by now.

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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:27 am

Frieza just need his Gohan (perhaps Pan) to turn him good :mrgreen:
Saiya-jin me, watashi ha kisama wo koroshimasu

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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by kemuri07 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:45 am

Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:Frieza just need his Gohan (perhaps Pan) to turn him good :mrgreen:
I hate this so much.

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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:57 am

kemuri07 wrote:
Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:Frieza just need his Gohan (perhaps Pan) to turn him good :mrgreen:
I hate this so much.
You hate this because it's so true 8)
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Re: Freeza is a good character now?

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:07 am

Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:
kemuri07 wrote:
Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:Frieza just need his Gohan (perhaps Pan) to turn him good :mrgreen:
I hate this so much.
You hate this because it's so true 8)
Frieza needs a Bulma not a Gohan :lol:

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