Canon matters

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Hulk10
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Re: Canon matters

Post by Hulk10 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:10 pm

Good point sorry. It might make things easier if the franchise had an official canon rather than the fan set one it seems to have..
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Re: Canon matters

Post by KBABZ » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:32 pm

Hulk10 wrote:Good point sorry. It might make things easier if the franchise had an official canon rather than the fan set one it seems to have..
I think having a singular "these are canon, the rest isn't" would be detrimental. But it would be nice to get at least an acknowledgement of "Hey, Dragon Ball has had hundreds of stories told over the years, they exist as a collection of stories for people to enjoy, and one take on the same story doesn't overwrite the others, nor are all the stories meant to connect with every other story". Or something like that.

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Re: Canon matters

Post by ABED » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:41 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:Good point sorry. It might make things easier if the franchise had an official canon rather than the fan set one it seems to have..
I think having a singular "these are canon, the rest isn't" would be detrimental. But it would be nice to get at least an acknowledgement of "Hey, Dragon Ball has had hundreds of stories told over the years, they exist as a collection of stories for people to enjoy, and one take on the same story doesn't overwrite the others, nor are all the stories meant to connect with every other story". Or something like that.
This is a truly awful idea. Common sense has no place in this discussion.
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Re: Canon matters

Post by Hulk10 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:34 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:Good point sorry. It might make things easier if the franchise had an official canon rather than the fan set one it seems to have..
I think having a singular "these are canon, the rest isn't" would be detrimental. But it would be nice to get at least an acknowledgement of "Hey, Dragon Ball has had hundreds of stories told over the years, they exist as a collection of stories for people to enjoy, and one take on the same story doesn't overwrite the others, nor are all the stories meant to connect with every other story". Or something like that.
Well some people especially on the dragon ball wikia think this franchise does have an official canon and they argue quite forcefully about it. https://dragonball.wikia.com/d/p/3100000000000006057 Its impossible to get them to agree with you.
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Re: Canon matters

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:40 pm

If there was no canon at all, then anything could be written to contradict anything else, and nothing would make any sense.
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Re: Canon matters

Post by Hulk10 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:52 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:If there was no canon at all, then anything could be written to contradict anything else, and nothing would make any sense.
Isn't that kinda how the franchise is?
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Re: Canon matters

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:48 pm

Hulk10 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:If there was no canon at all, then anything could be written to contradict anything else, and nothing would make any sense.
Isn't that kinda how the franchise is?
Only to some extent.
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Re: Canon matters

Post by ABED » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:17 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:If there was no canon at all, then anything could be written to contradict anything else, and nothing would make any sense.
Isn't that kinda how the franchise is?
Only to some extent.
How does it all written to contradict itself?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Canon matters

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:30 pm

ABED wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
Isn't that kinda how the franchise is?
Only to some extent.
How does it all written to contradict itself?
Well there are a lot of contradictions, but with no canon whatsoever everything would be contradictory.
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Re: Canon matters

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:12 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
ABED wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Only to some extent.
How does it all written to contradict itself?
Well there are a lot of contradictions, but with no canon whatsoever everything would be contradictory.
Except that as far I can tell there is no official canon.
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Re: Canon matters

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:17 am

Hulk10 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
ABED wrote:How does it all written to contradict itself?
Well there are a lot of contradictions, but with no canon whatsoever everything would be contradictory.
Except that as far I can tell there is no official canon.
But there is continuity and established rules and events of the setting.
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Re: Canon matters

Post by ABED » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:25 am

Which means there's also canon. Toriyama may have contradicted his own story a lot, but it's not because of lack of intention to be consistent with his own world, and yes, his own canon.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Canon matters

Post by Luso Saiyan » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:53 am

Hulk10 wrote:Except that as far I can tell there is no official canon.
Obviously there is an official/main canon, but it's an internal thing rather than something for the audience. Do people really think that when Toriyama is giving them stories and outlines for new material he's taking into account the events of every licensed work? No. The events of the adaptations of his works, movies (pre-BoG) and GT, for instance, are ignored. Why? Because they aren't canon to his stories. It doesn't mean these stories aren't canon to something else. Maybe they are. Maybe like Toriyama, they do see those as side stories, parallel universes, whatever...

And I guess when it comes to the whole canon debate, that that's what most people want to know and hear, directly from the horse's mouth. But they probably are (or were) afraid of any perceived weight the word carries and avoid it entirely.

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Re: Canon matters

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:40 am

I personnally advocate a clearly stated canon for end certain discussion on this matters and for being clear for everyone. That's tire me that Japan are so inconsistant with this kind of subject, Dragon Ball is not the only franchise to suffer that kind of mess.
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Re: Canon matters

Post by ABED » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:56 am

It's not really suffering. I don't know how it's not clear what is in continuity with what.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
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Re: Canon matters

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:52 am

Luso Saiyan wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:Except that as far I can tell there is no official canon.
Obviously there is an official/main canon, but it's an internal thing rather than something for the audience. Do people really think that when Toriyama is giving them stories and outlines for new material he's taking into account the events of every licensed work? No. The events of the adaptations of his works, movies (pre-BoG) and GT, for instance, are ignored. Why? Because they aren't canon to his stories. It doesn't mean these stories aren't canon to something else. Maybe they are. Maybe like Toriyama, they do see those as side stories, parallel universes, whatever...

And I guess when it comes to the whole canon debate, that that's what most people want to know and hear, directly from the horse's mouth. But they probably are (or were) afraid of any perceived weight the word carries and avoid it entirely.
Good point.
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Re: Canon matters

Post by SheonGT » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:22 am

zarmack wrote:I've always personally thought that there are 3 canons in Dragonball.

Jaco/DB Minus -> Original manga -> Super manga -> DBS Broly manga

Bardock FoG -> Early DB -> DBZ -> DBGT

Early DB -> DBKai -> Super anime -> DBS Broly film
I like this because it satisfies the three main DB fans. Manga purists (used lovingly) anime oldheads, and anime newbies who jumped on at Kai or Super
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Re: Canon matters

Post by ZodaEX » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:42 am

Luso Saiyan wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:Except that as far I can tell there is no official canon.
Obviously there is an official/main canon
If there is an official canon then tell us what it is.

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Re: Canon matters

Post by ABED » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:09 am

ZodaEX wrote:
Luso Saiyan wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:Except that as far I can tell there is no official canon.
Obviously there is an official/main canon
If there is an official canon then tell us what it is.
The original manga, we know for sure. What would it mean to say the original story wasn't?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Canon matters

Post by ZodaEX » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:35 pm

ABED wrote:
ZodaEX wrote:
Luso Saiyan wrote:
Obviously there is an official/main canon
If there is an official canon then tell us what it is.
The original manga, we know for sure. What would it mean to say the original story wasn't?
Okay cool I never knew that before. Which specific official entity has declared that the original manga version of events is cannon? That's the question I keep asking, but always gets dodged by people here.

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