How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
SheonGT
Newbie
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:54 pm
Location: Another time and place, scattered all over space

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by SheonGT » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:39 pm

For all it’s flaws, the Shadow Dragon arc and ending of GT is one of the best ways to end the series. And I hope Super finds a way to get to the End of Z or somehow include Uub and make the shadow dragons canon.

It’s such a great plot point how Goku and the gang’s constant use of the Dragon balls have consequences. Super seems to really be lacking in that regard. No risk any character ever takes seems to end up poorly for them nor do they ever have to struggle for it.

Goku leaving Earth with Shenron until the world needs them again (Because Goku was responsible for the Earrt being threatened by the Saiyans, Frieza that one time, Androids, Cell, and indirectly Buu) is such a tearjerker Of an ending, especially when we see Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr(?) duking it out. Goku and Geets left a legacy. And I love that.
Ask me about my love for the Faulconer Productions score!

User avatar
Gaffer Tape
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5869
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:24 am

To echo what has already been firmly driven home, this series/franchise has already had two definitive endings. It never, ever needed to come back. But more specifically to the question at hand, I find it hard to imagine Super being able to churn out a "Grand Finale." It's completely antithetical to its very nature as a frozen-in-time midquel. Since two more endings come chronologically after what Super's finale would be, it would find itself feeling wholly redundant and not at all final. It's not designed to let the series grow or conclude but rather to draw it out further and further, making the actual ending of Dragon Ball feel more and more obsolete and contradictory. The whole reason GT was able to provide such a well-received ending was because it wasn't afraid to continue doing what Dragon Ball had always done up to that point: grow and change. Super has its flaws, and it also has its merits, but it runs screaming from "change and growth" as much as it possibly can. It's terrified of Toriyama's assertion that the "end of DB" designs for the characters make them too old to continue the story. They can't have that. It has to continue for decades to come, but it already has a built-in limit to it, so they slam on the brakes and leave everyone in this ageless, most marketable euphoria.

Wow. I'm sounding really cynical, aren't I?
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:

MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 12/4/19!)
Current Episode: The Collapse of DBZ's Animation and Pacing - DBD TV: The Freeza Arc Part 2!

User avatar
Kunzait_83
I Live Here
Posts: 2728
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:19 pm

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:23 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:Wow. I'm sounding really cynical, aren't I?
No, you're sounding spot on correct: "cynical" is what much of this whole DB revival has largely been. Growth and change is such a fundamental core aspect of the series, and selling that up the river for "eternal marketability" is not only the direct antithesis of the original run's overarching themes and constant risk-taking shake-ups, its the textbook definition of a cynical corporate cash grab.

Whatever Toriyama's own monetary motivations back in the day (which he's freely copped to before) they managed to almost NEVER get in the way of him putting creativity and artistic growth first. Same goes even with GT, which honestly is remarkably astounding and Unicorn-levels of rare considering that it is LITERALLY a by-committee sequel of a global cash cow mega-franchise that's without its original author at the helm. GT is hardly a franchise highpoint, but its also ANYTHING but safe and by-the-numbers, and has the balls to push the characters and story forward into mostly new places before putting a final, conclusive end to the whole series that feels 100% fitting and justified.

For whatever serendipitous reasons (I have my own thoughts on what those were, but that isn't for this thread), Dragon Ball had always managed to successfully avoid the stink of something that wholly puts corporate marketing profitability 100% ahead of the needs of the narrative and storytelling integrity, no matter how much of a money-printing juggernaut it had become. That's now officially gone by the wayside with the revival, and it plainly shows.

Nonetheless though, Super's still nowhere near as bad as it COULD'VE been (and could yet still be perhaps once it resumes in full), and still has at least SOME faint traces of the old magic fluttering weakly around it every now and again.

No, total and utter rock bottom on the "cynical, soulless, corporate product" scale is what Dragon Ball Heroes is, which is nothing less than the complete and utter Pokemon-ification of Dragon Ball. :sick: :sick: :sick:
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

User avatar
RandomGuy96
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8793
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:57 pm
Location: San Diego, California, USA

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:33 am

I really do think the Kanzenban manga ending is ideal, from a narrative point of view. Or, at least, that it's better than any other point where the series could be ended even if the actual climax of the Buu arc wasn't to my liking. DB was never some grand overarching epic, and this ending acknowledges that.

I like how it ends on the note of "and the adventure goes on...!"; a small, subdued, open-ended conclusion where everything's wrapped up but a small window is still open. It's a distant finale to the last struggle where the universe-threatening, god-eating, ultimate monster was defeated in a long running battle that involved every hero and lasted most of an arc. Which ended in said monster becoming a friend.

We don't NEED to see what happens with Uub, what new adventures Goku and the gang will get into next (even though the narrator outright tells us that they will), we just need to know that they will happen. The ending is specifically designed for us to use our imaginations while not actually being let unsatisfied by any unresolved plot lines ("From now on, you'll have to see into their world with your own eyes... but maybe that will be even more fun"). And as much as I am annoyed by Goku, his final line ("And now, we'll get even stronger!") is just about the most fitting conclusion to the character possible.

Super and GT both shit on this nigh-perfect ending in their own ways.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

User avatar
Shineman
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:34 pm
Location: World of Information
Contact:

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by Shineman » Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:58 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Gaffer Tape wrote:Wow. I'm sounding really cynical, aren't I?
No, you're sounding spot on correct: "cynical" is what much of this whole DB revival has largely been. Growth and change is such a fundamental core aspect of the series, and selling that up the river for "eternal marketability" is not only the direct antithesis of the original run's overarching themes and constant risk-taking shake-ups, its the textbook definition of a cynical corporate cash grab.

Whatever Toriyama's own monetary motivations back in the day (which he's freely copped to before) they managed to almost NEVER get in the way of him putting creativity and artistic growth first. Same goes even with GT, which honestly is remarkably astounding and Unicorn-levels of rare considering that it is LITERALLY a by-committee sequel of a global cash cow mega-franchise that's without its original author at the helm. GT is hardly a franchise highpoint, but its also ANYTHING but safe and by-the-numbers, and has the balls to push the characters and story forward into mostly new places before putting a final, conclusive end to the whole series that feels 100% fitting and justified.

For whatever serendipitous reasons (I have my own thoughts on what those were, but that isn't for this thread), Dragon Ball had always managed to successfully avoid the stink of something that wholly puts corporate marketing profitability 100% ahead of the needs of the narrative and storytelling integrity, no matter how much of a money-printing juggernaut it had become. That's now officially gone by the wayside with the revival, and it plainly shows.

Nonetheless though, Super's still nowhere near as bad as it COULD'VE been (and could yet still be perhaps once it resumes in full), and still has at least SOME faint traces of the old magic fluttering weakly around it every now and again.

No, total and utter rock bottom on the "cynical, soulless, corporate product" scale is what Dragon Ball Heroes is, which is nothing less than the complete and utter Pokemon-ification of Dragon Ball. :sick: :sick: :sick:
Hey! Dragon Ball Heroes is just stupid fun! It does not mashed with the main series (and hopefully it says that way)….!

Jokes aside, I do think the series is definitely should be retired in a permanent status; how many stories need to be told for our characters to face the next toughest, roughest character on the street before fans decided “enough” is “enough”?

I am all for more content of a series, but only in moderation, if catch my drift. Perhaps an a animated special here and there on certain stuff in the grand scale of things of Dragon Ball.

The funny thing about Dragon Ball GT taking a more risk factor is the how they portrayed the characters as characters that moving forward to the future with their lives. It’s one (of many) things I liked about the ending; the universe will continue with and without the cast—zeroing on that, while they did many great things, the universe does not center around them.
"You, your family, everyone, will die. Over and over. Mountains of broken bodies, beneath the wheel." - Lich (Crossover, Adventure Time Season 7, episode 23)

I run a general discussion site: https://boogaloocrews.com/index.php

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 16079
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: VA
Contact:

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by ABED » Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:18 am

While it's a cash grab, the blame also largely falls to fans who don't want it to end.

I don't mind DC/Marvel's approach of a beginning, and an infinite middle, but it was designed to be that. DB is a single story written by a single author and only changed after the story had concluded.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 2874
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:07 pm

ABED wrote:While it's a cash grab, the blame also largely falls to fans who don't want it to end.
Japanese fans weren't really clamouring for more, as I understand it. The perception that fans don't want it to end, as I understand it, basically just comes from the western fandom's attitudes. The Japanese fandom was perfectly satisfied with what we got. Toei brought it back of their own accord... And, Japanese fans just kind of went along with it...
Never lose hope that your situation can improve.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 16079
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: VA
Contact:

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by ABED » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:24 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
ABED wrote:While it's a cash grab, the blame also largely falls to fans who don't want it to end.
Japanese fans weren't really clamouring for more, as I understand it. The perception that fans don't want it to end, as I understand it, basically just comes from the western fandom's attitudes. The Japanese fandom was perfectly satisfied with what we got. Toei brought it back of their own accord... And, Japanese fans just kind of went along with it...
I find that specious. Even if they aren't clamoring for it, the numbers that watch it speak for themselves. DB has decreased in popularity, so if they don't want it, it would show in the numbers. Just because Toei is feeding them, doesn't mean they have to take it. The Terminator movies have not been very successful after T2, so people don't have to eat what a company is trying to feed them. Everyone wants to blame the corporations. They're the big boogyman, but if people don't buy, it doesn't matter.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

zarmack
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:22 am

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by zarmack » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:48 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
ABED wrote:While it's a cash grab, the blame also largely falls to fans who don't want it to end.
Japanese fans weren't really clamouring for more, as I understand it. The perception that fans don't want it to end, as I understand it, basically just comes from the western fandom's attitudes. The Japanese fandom was perfectly satisfied with what we got. Toei brought it back of their own accord... And, Japanese fans just kind of went along with it...
This is clearly false. The revival of DB post-GT was largely driven by Japan's renewed interest in the franchise after the re-release of the original manga in Kanzenban form in 2003. Most of the franchises' merchandise revenue comes from the Japanese, and people don't buy/support what they don't want. If they didn't want more DB then the series wouldn't be making as much money as it does in Japan and we wouldn't have gotten Kai nor Battle of Gods.

And Western fans seriously need to stop overrating their influence on the franchise. Toei and Toriyama generally do not care much at all about what Western and other overseas fans want (which is why a large chunk of DB merchandise never leaves Japan).

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 2874
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:49 pm

ABED wrote:I find that specious. Even if they aren't clamoring for it, the numbers that watch it speak for themselves. DB has decreased in popularity, so if they don't want it, it would show in the numbers. Just because Toei is feeding them, doesn't mean they have to take it. The Terminator movies have not been very successful after T2, so people don't have to eat what a company is trying to feed them. Everyone wants to blame the corporations. They're the big boogyman, but if people don't buy, it doesn't matter.
As I say, I'm not claiming Japan doesn't want more Dragon Ball, I'm saying they weren't clamouring for it like the western fandom seems to be.
zarmack wrote:This is clearly false. The revival of DB post-GT was largely driven by Japan's renewed interest in the franchise after the re-release of the original manga in Kanzenban form in 2003. Most of the franchises' merchandise revenue comes from the Japanese, and people don't buy/support what they don't want. If they didn't want more DB then the series wouldn't be making as much money as it does in Japan and we wouldn't have gotten Kai nor Battle of Gods.
As I say, just because no one's actively begging for something to happen before it's around doesn't mean they won't go with it if it suddenly happens. There's nothing to suggest Japanese fans suddenly had a change of heart, and desperately wanted more Dragon Ball more than life itself suddenly after 2003. It was a case of franchise fatigue wearing off, Japanese fans generally enjoying the 2008 OVA and Kai, and the fans just going along with the last two movies and Super.

The thing I'm trying to argue here is not that Japanese fans don't want more Dragon Ball, it's that there wasn't an overwhelming demand for it that Toei finally gave in to. Western fans tend to push that idea, but it's total nonsense. Dragon Ball slowly became marketable again, Toei took advantage of it, and the fans went along with it. Super doesn't exist because of a burning desire that there absolutely must be more Dragon Ball, it's because people enjoy Dragon Ball, and now that the Japanese franchise fatigue has worn off, Toei are giving the Japanese fans more of it, and the fans are tagging along.

No one's saying there absolutely needs to be more Mission Impossible movies, and yet, when there is one, people go and see it. They enjoy it, so why not go when there's a new one, right? Doesn't mean anyone was absolutely banging down doors to demand more be made during the time when they weren't making them for a while.
zarmack wrote:And Western fans seriously need to stop overrating their influence on the franchise. Toei and Toriyama generally do not care much at all about what Western and other overseas fans want (which is why a large chunk of DB merchandise never leaves Japan).
Absolutely. I've seen so many people claim things as ridiculous as the western fandom is entirely the reason why Dragon Ball came back, claiming some weird train of logic along the lines of "dragon ball was so successful in the west, they started putting out video games that sold so well they did kai which did so well they did the movies and now super, because we americans bought it all up"... Toei really don't care about what goes on outside Japan. :lol:
Never lose hope that your situation can improve.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 16079
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: VA
Contact:

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by ABED » Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:47 pm

Dragon Ball slowly became marketable again, Toei took advantage of it
Ergo it was consumer demand that drove the revival, not merely "corporate greed". It's a symbiotic relationship.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1611
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:26 pm

Goku ditches his family and friends to train the reincarnation of his most powerful enemy

zarmack
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:22 am

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by zarmack » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:36 pm

Just to remind everyone, what I was asking was what you guys think would make for an absolutely final saga for the franchise, not you think was the best ending sequence in the series.

User avatar
PFM18
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by PFM18 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:04 pm

One of the proverbial tropes of Dragon Ball are tournaments. Dragon Ball has it's roots entrenched in tournaments and some of the franchise's best arcs have been tournaments. I would make the Grand Finale a tournament arc that includes all of the classic characters and a few more in a new format with EVERYTHING at stake. I would make the participants be from across the multiverse to have new foes and put Goku's passion for fighting new strong fighters on full-display. In Toriyama fashion, I would make the purpose of the tournament to amuse extremely powerful Gods that are shockingly just little kids, and to prove to the Gods that these mortals are worthy of living. I would make the chalk-full of interesting character moments and interactions and have it culminate in the great fight in Dragon Ball history.

Oh wait.....crap.

User avatar
MarCas92
Regular
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:22 pm
Location: U.S/Mexican Border
Contact:

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by MarCas92 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:18 am

Hot Take: If the filler episode of Z where Goku shows up late to a party could've been the ending I think that would be the best ending we've gotten so far.
How do you get into the Ginyu Force? With a letter of RECOOMEndation!

User avatar
Acetona
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:08 pm
Location: デジタルワールド
Contact:

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by Acetona » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:08 am

zarmack wrote:I was personally thinking something more grandiose, probably something like this but with better writing:
Image

All the warriors, GoDs and Angels from all 12 (or 18) universes to take on a threat stronger than Zeno and Zalama. Have it take place at a much later period like age 790 (when the Shadow Dragon arc in GT takes place), feature lots of permanent deaths and shed some more light on the DB World (in a way that ties it all back to the beginning like the Shadow Dragon arc did).
I don't really like this idea to be honest. Zen'oh is already at a level where he's so cheap it's lame. I really despise these "omnipotent", "omniscient", "multiversal", "reality warping" things that people think it's a good idea to pass as strong characters. Those villains are always, I mean, ALWAYS defeated in a lame way. See Anime!Zamasu when he became the universe. Stupidiest ending ever.
キミもテイマーをめざせ!

User avatar
Mister_Popo
Regular
Posts: 716
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:12 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by Mister_Popo » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:48 am

I don't see DB as something that is meant to have a definete ending.
It would make sense Goku fights the Gods and eventually Beerus again in some strange plottwist at the end of Super.

If he has finally defeated every God of Destruction, he can put on the classic Blue GI, claim his title as universal master of martial arts, and go to EoZ and Uub from there.
That could conclude the storycycle of Super.
But i doubt the story would truely end there. A definitive ending is hard to describe, because DB is in essence an endless circle of recurrency, behind mountains there always will be higher mountains looming up and new threats to fight against.
That's why the original manga had an open ending in the first place.

User avatar
Fizzer
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1396
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:01 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by Fizzer » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:20 pm

Two arcs that we've seen, the Shadow Dragons arc and the Universe Survival arc, have the potential to be a grand finale for the series if treated that way. The Tournament of Power obviously wasn't treated that way at all in the Super anime and so wouldn't actually be a good ending as it stands, and I don't think the Shadow Dragons storyline would quite work now that we've been introduced to the super dragon balls and the Earth's ones are kind of obsolete. Maybe it would work if rather than being spawned from a certain set of dragon balls, the dragons were spawned from the negative energy built up in the universe itself as a consequence of all three sets of dragon balls being overused and taking their toll on reality. We could see the negative energy beginning to eat away stars and planets throughout the universes and seven dragons appear as the embodiment of it.

Another potential grand finale plot I can think of is one that some people were predicting the Tournament of Power would lead into, which is a mortal revolt against the angels and the very idea of the Tournament of Power itself. The angels turn out to be corrupt and influencing Zeno to get rid of the universes, and thanks to Goku's shaking of the barrel and the rebellious nature he showed in the early arc, once the first of the universes has been erased or the tournament appears to have been rigged, the mortals and gods together fight against the angels to stop the whole thing, with the Grand Priest being the big bad.

User avatar
Doctor.
Banned
Posts: 10529
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:02 am
Location: Portugal

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by Doctor. » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:46 pm

Considering the road Super has been taking, I'll be disappointed if it doesn't end with the Gods and the mortals butting heads (for real this time, instead of copping out to "it was just a test, my dude").

User avatar
JohnnyCashKami
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:16 pm

Re: How would you write a Grand Finale arc for the franchise?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:16 pm

Robo4900 wrote:Indeed.
I think there's room for spinoffs like Victory Mission, the Yamcha manga, and other things of that sort of ilk, but doing mainline Dragon Ball without Goku is surely a recipe for disaster. Even everyone's favourite secondary protagonist Gohan would be troublesome; Toei has no idea how to write him, and even his most aggressive fans would have a hard time justifying him fully filling Goku's shoes. At best, you'd have a vastly different spinoff that could work in its own right for a while, but at worst, you'd have a pale imitation of the original that betrays everything we know about Gohan's character.

Really though, I think Dragon Ball shouldn't have been revived with Super or ResF. Battle Of Gods was a good one-off, but I think aside from that, we'd be better off with spinoffs that try new, weird, different things.

At this point, I think the best way to conclude the modern Dragon Ball run would be to work us up to the end of the original storyline, and conclude mainline Dragon Ball. Follow it up with crazy spinoffs like Heroes, a series about Oob, a manga about Goku Jr., whatever Toei can come up with... At this point, as much as fans seem to resist it, I think Dragon Ball already had its definitive ending, and it really needs to stop trying to recapture the old magic, and just move onto new things. Even if this results in a somewhat low-key ending for Super... That is what Toriyama always intended with Dragon Ball. His ending to the manga was very low-key, and his alternate ending in the Online timeline involved Goku and Vegeta getting old and just going into space to have one last fight, the after-effects of which can be seen in supernovas in the sky years in the future. Very low-key story-wise.
For TOEI/Shueisha/Toriyama to have Dragon Ball function without Goku (and perhaps the favorite anti-hero, Vegeta) they'd have to be replaced by Junior versions of themselves than to entirely remove any trace of Goku and Vegeta's selves.

I honestly can't imagine watching whether a mainline or spin-off series of Dragon Ball without Goku, it just wouldn't do it for me.

Super Dragon Ball Heroes has like 3 Gokus (Blue Goku, SSJ4 Goku, Evil Saiyan who's a Goku lookalike) at once and I'm okay with that because it's just silly fun not meant to be "canon" or be taken seriously as part of the main Dragon Ball series content. However, Super Dragon Ball Heroes also without Goku? Probably wouldn't be as interesting either. To be fair, I didn't really like Dragon Ball Super a whole lot and that had Goku as well.

There was that one time I enjoyed a portion of Dragon Ball without Goku, that was the filler arc of Garlic Junior on Dragon Ball Z although that went by pretty quickly so possibly part of the reason I was OK with it. :P

Anyway, it seems to me TOEI wants Dragon Ball to be their Star Wars and cash as much as possible from this franchise.

Post Reply