Dub Changes That Don't Bother You...that much

[Kunzait_83]

I've been eyeball deep in DB fandom for over 25+ years, and I literally have ZERO memory whatsoever of "Over 9000!" being in any which way a thing at any point prior to that dumbfuck Youtube video going viral.

I'm almost tempted to call anyone claiming that line was any kind of "inside joke" among fans (on like a widespread scale: not counting if its between a handful of friends in Wyoming or something) pre-2006 as being completely full of shit.

[ABED]

I've been eyeball deep in DB fandom for over 25+ years, and I literally have ZERO memory whatsoever of "Over 9000!" being in any which way a thing at any point prior to that dumbfuck Youtube video going viral.

I've been a fan just as long and while there were no memes back then, the line was very popular. I'd argue that's the reason it caught on years later after youtube was created - it was already popular but not as well seen due to the whole Ocean dub distribution issue.

[Kunzait_83]

I've been a fan just as long and while there were no memes back then, the line was very popular. I'd argue that's the reason it caught on years later after youtube was created - it was already popular but not as well seen due to the whole Ocean dub distribution issue.

If that's indeed the case, that only further strengthens my long-held assertion that North American dub fandom and broader DB fandom are indeed operating within two COMPLETELY different universes regarding two totally different franchises entirely. Because that must be some deep, DEEP cut hardcore dub fandom shit.

I'm someone who can literally off-the-cuff rattle off the names and webmasters of pre-1996 Dragon Ball websites (as well as fansubbers from circa 1992) from raw memory. But Over 9000? Prior to the Youtube era? I've got n-o-t-h-i-n-g.

[ABED]

I've been a fan just as long and while there were no memes back then, the line was very popular. I'd argue that's the reason it caught on years later after youtube was created - it was already popular but not as well seen due to the whole Ocean dub distribution issue.

If that's indeed the case, that only further strengthens my long-held assertion that North American dub fandom and broader DB fandom are indeed operating within two COMPLETELY different universes regarding two totally different franchises entirely. Because that must be some deep, DEEP cut hardcore dub fandom shit.

I'm someone who can literally off-the-cuff rattle off the names and webmasters of pre-1996 Dragon Ball websites from memory. But Over 9000? Prior to the Youtube era? I've got n-o-t-h-i-n-g.

I recall people talking about this on chat boards a lot.

I'm not even sure what your issue is with the line. It's not a dumb line. It's a great over the top delivery that just seemed to take on a life of its own. The only thing that bugs me is that people keep asking Sabat to do it as though he was the one who delivered the line memorably to begin with. There's no way Sabat's delivery would've made the line popular because it wasn't memorable. I still wonder why the dub felt the need to make it 9000 instead of 8000. It feels like a completely arbitrary change.

[Kunzait_83]

I'm not even sure what your issue is with the line. It's not a dumb line. It's a great over the top delivery that just seemed to take on a life of its own.

I don't have "an issue" with the line itself. I don't give two shits about Power Levels, so I don't even remotely care that they got the number wrong (the numbers are arbitrary and meaningless to begin with). The specific delivery of it in question is just par for the course as far as the Ocean/Saban-era dub goes.

I'm simply left utterly mystified that THAT particular line/moment has been so completely solidified into meme-dom immortality. Its not even the cringiest or most unintentionally hilarious delivery of a dub line from this series. To me, the fact that this was plucked seemingly from thin air by the broader culture to be "THE line" of the series (or at least the dub) has always struck me as 1000% totally arbitrary and random.

It literally could've just as easily been ANY other generic line/delivery from the dub. The whole fucking dub from front to back sounds just as ridiculously over the top and stupid - at a bare minimum - as that one specific line. And certainly with many other numerous moments & lines going well far above and beyond it.

Case in point right here.

I still wonder why the dub felt the need to make it 9000 instead of 8000. It feels like a completely arbitrary change.

Apart from Power Levels in and of themselves operating under roughly the same set of rules as the points system in Whose Line is It Anyway?, completely arbitrary changes for the sake of arbitrary changes have always been kind of the dub's thing in general. Look no further than things like the names of Bardock's team members, or names like Destructo Disc, Flying Nimbus, Special Beam Cannon, Korin vs Karin, and about countless dozens and dozens of others.

[ABED]

It's a well delivered line reading. It sticks out and I could argue that it crystalizes what the general public thinks of DBZ - testosterone driven, over the top, loud, screaming, strong dudes about to throw down. There are plenty of dumb or even dumber dub lines but I don't think any of them sum up people's (mis)conceptions about the franchise quite as well as that one.

I didn't know you would post the video of Piccolo the motivational speaker but that was exactly the example I would use of dumb dub moments, but I don't think it's nearly representative of how western fans view DBZ.

Apart from Power Levels in and of themselves operating under roughly the same set of rules as the points system in Whose Line is It Anyway?, completely arbitrary changes for the sake of arbitrary changes have always been kind of the dub's thing in general. Look no further than things like the names of Bardock's team members, or names like Destructo Disc, Flying Nimbus, Special Beam Cannon, Korin vs Karin, and about countless dozens and dozens of others.

I get all that, and I didn't mean it in that way. It simply comes across like the most arbitrary change. The one's you mention are mostly adaptation issues, which regardless of my view of them, have a logic to them. This is some writers going "8000 seems too low. I got it, 9000. That's way better!"

[Kunzait_83]

It's a well delivered line reading. It sticks out and I could argue that it crystalizes what the general public thinks of DBZ - testosterone driven, over the top, loud, screaming, strong dudes about to throw down. There are plenty of dumb or even dumber dub lines but I don't think any of them sum up people's (mis)conceptions about the franchise quite as well as that one.

I didn't know you would post the video of Piccolo the motivational speaker but that was exactly the example I would use of dumb dub moments, but I don't think it's nearly representative of how western fans view DBZ.

FUNimation's Dragon Ball Z summed up just as perfectly within a totally different and just as arbitrarily random set of five seconds.

[jjgp1112]

Not semantics, you don't give credit to the guy who makes his friends laugh with the Chris Rock routine.

I understand not wanting to give "credit" to some dude just spamming a line over and over again and uploading a video of it as launching it into a phenomenon but like...that's exactly what happened, dude. That's the internet for you.

No, no it didn't. And the craze starts with Brian Drummond's delivery, end of story. Why does that video get the credit?

(hell you can even see it pick back up again in March 2015 when Ronda Rousey wore the shirt at WrestleMania)

Celebrities wearing shirts is promotion, not the same thing. You are giving credit for uploading a video. That's what bugs me about this whole dumb thing. People keep talking about it as a meme. It's not actually a meme. It's just a memorable line delivery, no different from "It's not a tumah!"

The only reason people care enough about the delivery to continually bug the voice actor who didn't even say the line about it is because of a silly video making it a meme.

You can talk about the delivery all you want but if that video doesn't come out, nobody beyond an evidently small group cares about it.

[ABED]

Not semantics, you don't give credit to the guy who makes his friends laugh with the Chris Rock routine.

I understand not wanting to give "credit" to some dude just spamming a line over and over again and uploading a video of it as launching it into a phenomenon but like...that's exactly what happened, dude. That's the internet for you.

No, no it didn't. And the craze starts with Brian Drummond's delivery, end of story. Why does that video get the credit?

(hell you can even see it pick back up again in March 2015 when Ronda Rousey wore the shirt at WrestleMania)

Celebrities wearing shirts is promotion, not the same thing. You are giving credit for uploading a video. That's what bugs me about this whole dumb thing. People keep talking about it as a meme. It's not actually a meme. It's just a memorable line delivery, no different from "It's not a tumah!"

The only reason people care enough about the delivery to continually bug the voice actor who didn't even say the line about it is because of a silly video making it a meme.

You can talk about the delivery all you want but if that video doesn't come out, nobody beyond an evidently small group cares about it.

If the delivery wasn't what it was, the video wouldn't have caught on. It's not the line, it's the delivery. No delivery, no youtube video. Notice the video didn't use Sabat's delivery.

DB videos getting over 1 million views isn't a rarity. You still give WAY to much credit for the uploading of a video.

[WittyUsername]

I don’t understand what’s being argued about here. Obviously Brian Drummond’s delivery was a key part of the line’s popularity, but what’s wrong with acknowledging that a specific YouTube video helped make the line (for better or worse) an Internet phenomenon?

On the subject of why the dub went with “9000” instead of “8000”, wasn’t the official explanation that it better matched the lip flaps?

[jjgp1112]

Not semantics, you don't give credit to the guy who makes his friends laugh with the Chris Rock routine.

No, no it didn't. And the craze starts with Brian Drummond's delivery, end of story. Why does that video get the credit?

Celebrities wearing shirts is promotion, not the same thing. You are giving credit for uploading a video. That's what bugs me about this whole dumb thing. People keep talking about it as a meme. It's not actually a meme. It's just a memorable line delivery, no different from "It's not a tumah!"

The only reason people care enough about the delivery to continually bug the voice actor who didn't even say the line about it is because of a silly video making it a meme.

You can talk about the delivery all you want but if that video doesn't come out, nobody beyond an evidently small group cares about it.

If the delivery wasn't what it was, the video wouldn't have caught on. It's not the line, it's the delivery. No delivery, no youtube video. Notice the video didn't use Sabat's delivery.

DB videos getting over 1 million views isn't a rarity. You still give WAY to much credit for the uploading of a video.

1 million YouTube views in 2006/07 was definitely a big deal, and AGAIN, the Google trends even shows that nobody gave a shit about it until October 2006. Yes, it's a funny delivery, but that video is what made more than a few dozen people even care about it. I don't even know why it's a debate.

It's not really a matter of credit, just facts. You can't acknowledge the memes popularity without acknowledging that video. Hell, I'm a dub fan whose been on the online fandom since 2001 and I don't recall anybody caring about that line until the video.

[Kunzait_83]

Hell, I'm a dub fan whose been on the online fandom since 2001 and I don't recall anybody caring about that line until the video.

So its not JUST me then right? Good, just wanna make sure I'm not losing my marbles (any more than normal) here.

Cause yeah: I've NEVER heard about this line being a thing in fandom anywhere until 2006 and that video.

[Yuli Ban]

I've been thinking about the early Saban dub for a while now (i.e. about 45 minutes) and wondering where the story would have gone if that actually was the definitive version of Dragon Ball Z.
That could become its own thread: let's say the DBZ dubs from 1996-1999 were the actual series. Bardock is now a brilliant scientist, cargo robots are the only ones that fly about, there's a realm called the "Next Dimension" and Home For Infinite Losers, Vegeta cheekily snuck to Earth and killed Grandpa Gohan, the rest of the senshi magically returned to life for 3 episodes just to get their asses beat raw by Tullece, and the monk Krillian seriously thought "Destructo Disk" was a good name for an attack. Season 3 has now begun, we're picking up with Goku "Hope of the Universe" Son's battle with Captain Ginyu with all this knowledge intact and the canon of the series altered to reflect this.

Edit: Who the heck is Krillian?

[MyVisionity]

The Over 9000 line was a memorable one among fans prior to 2006, and part of that is due to Drummond's delivery as well as the context of the scene itself. However, I doubt it was any kind of big Internet sensation until the YouTube video gave it widespread popularity.

I've been thinking about the early Saban dub for a while now (i.e. about 45 minutes) and wondering where the story would have gone if that actually was the definitive version of Dragon Ball Z.
That could become its own thread: let's say the DBZ dubs from 1996-1999 were the actual series. Bardock is now a brilliant scientist, cargo robots are the only ones that fly about, there's a realm called the "Next Dimension" and Home For Infinite Losers, Vegeta cheekily snuck to Earth and killed Grandpa Gohan, the rest of the senshi magically returned to life for 3 episodes just to get their asses beat raw by Tullece, and the monk Krillian seriously thought "Destructo Disk" was a good name for an attack. Season 3 has now begun, we're picking up with Goku "Hope of the Universe" Son's battle with Captain Ginyu with all this knowledge intact and the canon of the series altered to reflect this.

It probably would have gone the way of Robotech, or Sailor Moon, or Power Rangers in such a scenario with an even starker contrast between fans, but at least eventually there would be a clear and undeniable recognition that you have two very distinct products out there instead of the kind of confusion that might exist today.

[ABED]

The Over 9000 line was a memorable one among fans prior to 2006, and part of that is due to Drummond's delivery as well as the context of the scene itself. However, I doubt it was any kind of big Internet sensation until the YouTube video gave it widespread popularity.

Fair enough, but I don't know why people keep considering it a meme. Does this even constitute a meme if all it's doing is posting footage on a loop? In any event, I think I've said all I can on the subject.

Anyway, regarding the lip flaps being a possible reason for 8000 becoming 9000 is interesting. Maybe. At least it's not arbitrary.

[VegettoEX]

Fair enough, but I don't know why people keep considering it a meme. Does this even constitute a meme if all it's doing is posting footage on a loop? In any event, I think I've said all I can on the subject.

I hate to be so blunt, but ABED, you're just absolutely wrong about this situation. I understand where you're coming from, but it's an out-of-touch viewpoint, one that is completely blinded by the reality of the situation, and you're just proving your ignorance and extreme stubbornness over and over again with each response.

I say this lovingly as someone who had the same reaction at the time and it's recorded on a podcast for all of humanity to listen to for the rest of history.

[omegacwa]

Dragon Ball Fan since the mid nineties checking in. I can honestly say I don't recall anyone giving a damn about Over 9000 before the youtube clip went viral.

[Robo4900]

Anyway, regarding the lip flaps being a possible reason for 8000 becoming 9000 is interesting. Maybe. At least it's not arbitrary.

Pretty sure that's just a piece of baseless speculation that's become a well-spread rumour. Brian Drummond suggested it a few times in interviews, I think that's where this idea originated, but he's made it quite clear quite often that he had no idea, and is just speculating (and it's not a bad piece of speculation -- naturally, if a line was changed from sub to dub, it's often just to fit lip flaps); he's just an actor, after all, so he doesn't know.

But the lip flaps thing really don't make sense. The mouth movements in Dragon Ball are always 2 or 3 states of open/closed, no real shaping or any other kind of suggestion of the actual sound being made. Nine and eight would both fit one open of the mouth, which Funimation demonstrated when they did their uncut Kai dub. That's the only difference between 8000 and 9000, so that particular justification of the change is bunk.

Realistically, the reason for the 8000 to 9000 change was likely just that Barry Watson or Terry Klassen thought 9000 sounded more impressive.

[Valerius Dover]

If the Over 9000 meme was a thing back then, don't you think the 2005 dub would've tried to imitate it more? I think the read being so different there is proof enough that this wasn't known. Meanwhile, the edited Kai dub and games dating as far back as Budokai Tenkaichi 3 went with readings closer to Drummond's take.

[ABED]

Fair enough, but I don't know why people keep considering it a meme. Does this even constitute a meme if all it's doing is posting footage on a loop? In any event, I think I've said all I can on the subject.

I hate to be so blunt, but ABED, you're just absolutely wrong about this situation. I understand where you're coming from, but it's an out-of-touch viewpoint, one that is completely blinded by the reality of the situation, and you're just proving your ignorance and extreme stubbornness over and over again with each response.

I say this lovingly as someone who had the same reaction at the time and it's recorded on a podcast for all of humanity to listen to for the rest of history.

Which part is "out of touch"? I get where people say I'm wrong, that this all started at point X, but does that really constitute out of touch?

My question to everyone disagreeing is if people didn't care about Over 9000 before the video, what about the video that is literally JUST a clip on repeat made people care? Is it that it brought it to people's attention? This shit doesn't happen in a vacuum.

I think the read being so different there is proof enough that this wasn't known.

What proof? Google trends? I'm not saying EVERYONE knew it, but it's wasn't an obscure quote among the fandom, either.