Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by laserkid » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:21 am

You can certainly find disagreements a plenty in this community... about literally everything.

But I wouldn't go so far as to say it's toxic - especially here.

Honestly, one of my deepest regrets in life is how much I keep drifting from this community. I don't mean to, but I keep on ending up with several long hiatus periods, visit and hang for a while, rinse and repeat. I really miss the people I knew here and if that doesn't tell you how strong the community is, I don't know what to tell you.
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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by PacificOceanDub » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:06 pm

It’s hard to say if it’s the least toxic. I’ve definitely met nothing but kind, outgoing people at the theatre showings of these new movies (since Battle of Gods). On the contrary, i’ve seen a lot of negativity on these forums. Planning on going to Kameha-Con this year, I guess i’ll have to see what I observe there, as that’ll be the most DB fans i’ve ever been in a room with at once, bar none.
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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:02 pm

TenshinFan wrote:I would say it is quite toxic for the GT meme-hate alone. Constant bickering about canon and sperging out about power levels. Definitely not as bad as Sonic the Hedgehog and Star Wars like the other guy said. This board is great especially compared to reddit or youtube. But even here you have a lot of dick measuring with particulars of home releases and translations. I cant hardly find a thread actually discussing movies, sagas, or characters.
What in your mind constitutes bickering? And if you can't find threads or discussions about the movies, arcs, or characters here, I don't know where you're looking.

And what the hell are people arguing about Sonic for? What is there to argue beyond maybe what's the best game?
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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by TenshinFan » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:04 pm

In the Sonic community I've taken a lot of heat for defending the old 90s Archie comics and characters. These new kids grew up on the Ian Flynn Era and think anything Ken Penders should be burnt at the stake

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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by Zephyr » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:43 pm

ABED wrote:And what the hell are people arguing about Sonic for? What is there to argue beyond maybe what's the best game?
A lot of the same stuff that gets argued about here. Character designs, voice actors, scripting, shipping, etc.

Also, "what's the best game?" results in much less civil discussion than you'd expect.

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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:51 pm

Zephyr wrote:
ABED wrote:And what the hell are people arguing about Sonic for? What is there to argue beyond maybe what's the best game?
A lot of the same stuff that gets argued about here. Character designs, voice actors, scripting, shipping, etc.

Also, "what's the best game?" results in much less civil discussion than you'd expect.
About the couple of cartoons from the 90s?
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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by TenshinFan » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:01 pm

ABED wrote:
Zephyr wrote:
ABED wrote:And what the hell are people arguing about Sonic for? What is there to argue beyond maybe what's the best game?
A lot of the same stuff that gets argued about here. Character designs, voice actors, scripting, shipping, etc.

Also, "what's the best game?" results in much less civil discussion than you'd expect.
About the couple of cartoons from the 90s?
Mostly comics and video games. With comics there's Archie vs Fleetwood vs IDW. And within Archie there's Scott Shaw vs Ken Penders vs Ian Flynn.

Then in the games you have Classic vs Modern, and then all the spinoffs. And on top of all that you have noncanon like Sonic X and Sonic Boom.

Throw in all the crappy fan art and memes and voila, you have a toxic divided fanbase.

Definitely makes the DB Fandom look like a knitting club and the only fandom worse is probably Star Wars.

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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:04 pm

What behavior do you mean by toxic? And what fanbase isn't divided about something and why should that matter? Disagreements are fine, encouraged even, it's the civility of the discussion that's the issue.

What does fan art have to do with this?

The problem I have with this question is that it's not clear exactly what it means. Even with Star Wars, it's difficult to gage because of how big it is. Yes, there are a lot of crazies in it, but there are also a lot of fine upstanding people in it. I've long believed that the percentage of bad to good in any fandom is roughly the same, it's just the popularity and visibility of the franchise that's different. While it appears Star Wars has more "toxic" fans, that's mostly because there are more fans.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by SpiritBombTriumphant » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:41 pm

I think we're quite toxic. There is plenty of assholery in this community (the DB community, not Kanzenshuu). I've been a part of it too. But we are deeply divided on plenty of issues:

1. Kikuchi vs Faulconer
2. GT is good vs GT sucks
3. Yamamuro vs Shintani
4. Toriyama's new contributions suck vs Toriyama is just like he used to be

Look at the My Hero Academia community. What do they argue about?

1. "MHA" vs "BNHA."

It's just how things are =/

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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:02 pm

SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:I think we're quite toxic. There is plenty of assholery in this community (the DB community, not Kanzenshuu). I've been a part of it too. But we are deeply divided on plenty of issues:

1. Kikuchi vs Faulconer
2. GT is good vs GT sucks
3. Yamamuro vs Shintani
4. Toriyama's new contributions suck vs Toriyama is just like he used to be

Look at the My Hero Academia community. What do they argue about?

1. "MHA" vs "BNHA."

It's just how things are =/
Why does that make things bad? So what if we disagree about the music or the quality of a show? Is that the essence of toxicity - disagreement?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by ClutchBangstrip » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:34 pm

80% of this thread has lost what I meant by toxicity.

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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by Zephyr » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:02 am

ABED wrote:What behavior do you mean by toxic? And what fanbase isn't divided about something and why should that matter? Disagreements are fine, encouraged even, it's the civility of the discussion that's the issue.
You answered your own question.

But, I don't think you can really compare the toxicity of huge fandoms. First, the nature of "fandom" itself creates a sense of tribalism, no matter what the focus is. Iterative tribes within are natural. And as said, the size makes matters worse. The more people who are engaging in this sort of "community", the more splintering that can occur.

But it's the anonymity provided by the internet that really sets things off. Sincerity is insurmountably difficult to distinguish from sarcasm, using text alone (which can cause a simple disagreement to get incredibly heated, quite quickly). Looking at a block of words rather than a flesh and blood human adds layers of dehumanization, even if a human is seen on a screen. Negative consequences for emotional reactions are lessened, so there's less hostile inhibition.

Huge masses of people, identifying with groups, arguing with huge masses of dehumanized others, belonging to other groups, practically invites diminished civility. I said you can't really compare the toxicity between fandoms, because how do you quantify the diminished civility between two groups whose very nature invites diminished civility? What metric can you use? With the line nigh-permanently blurred between sincerity and sarcasm, you wouldn't know where to start or what to include.

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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by ABED » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:36 am

I know what it means, I'm asking if others understand because bringing up disagreements instead of HOW they disagree makes it seem like disagreeing in and of itself is toxic.

I do agree about the difficulty in conveying tone and the anonymity of the internet helps foster a lack of civility. Before the net, if you wanted to get your opinion out there, you had to send the opinion into something like a letter to the editor, which meant you really had to put the effort in. You had to write the letter, get postage, and mail it. Then someone had to agree to publish it. Pressing "send" is so much easier.

Remember being told if you have a problem with someone/something, write a letter, then put it in a drawer and never let anyone see it? Now everyone is doing the former, but not the latter.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by Apslup » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:13 pm

I definitely say that the YouTube side of the fanbase is pretty shitty (with some exceptions such as MasakoX and Team Four Star)

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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by saiyanhajime » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:07 pm

Heh, depends where you hang out.

I think DB is a particularly diverse fandom... Probably the most diverse one I've ever been a part of. Which is awesome. But with that comes the inevitable shock when people don't hold the same worldview as you do outside of your bubble. That's a good thing, but I do encounter some utterly vile people in my peripherals. Homophobia is rife. Which isn't surprising, but is disappointing.

When I was waist deep in the Sonic the Hedgehog fandom, I'd say it was the least toxic and chill of any I've been a part of tbh. It's weird in there and I'd say it is definitely bigger than the DB fandom, or certainly was? Dunno.

When it comes to disagreements over opinions... I get bent out of shape by people's need to constantly interject "in YOUR opinion!" like I have to end every sentence with "IMO" when I'm not stating an absolute fact. It drives me inane. Especially when I've made a big deal out of explaining why I hold a view. But I honestly don't see that so often in DB... I think the fandom is pretty at peace with the fact that the source material is a mess and that's ok. We, the fans, own it. Death of the author 'en all that. And with that comes a better understanding that everything is fluid and opinions are valid and ever changing.

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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by Kokonoe » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:22 pm

In my experience, it's been one of the more toxic ones but that comes with popularity of a subject. I've dealt with being bullied for enjoying Toyotaro and made to look as if I'm a fool for merely showing praise of his manga. Also for the Faulconer Productions OST where people will call me biased just because I consider it better. Like it can't possibly be that I like it more.

And on the flip side, when I voiced displeasure of the Super anime in a respectful manner, people got rather vicious with me in a way that was just not right. I also remember FighterZ hoping for certain characters got in like Bardock and I made a argument that his fighting style would be cool cause of his ruthless nature, but people treated me terrible about that and questioned why I would ever think that, outright mocking me for it.

So yeah, in my experience, Dragon Ball fandom has been toxic for me.

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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by Apslup » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:32 pm

Apslup wrote:I definitely say that the YouTube side of the fanbase is pretty shitty (with some exceptions such as MasakoX and Team Four Star)
Going back to this because I want to go into more detail.

The YouTube side of the Dragon Ball Fanbase is shit hands down. This is mostly down to the amount of low effort content on Dragon Ball on YouTube, with most videos just being people reacting/reviewing episodes by explaining scene-by-scene what happened then saying something like "AH YEAH THAT WAS FUCKING SICK BRO! I LOVE THE BIT WHEN *X* FOUGHT *Y*! THAT WAS FUCKING HYPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!". There is also the amount of shitty theories that have no evidence backing them up with a clickbait thumbnail featuring a fan-made SSJ transformation the lazy git who made the video found on DeviantArt. There are also the video like "Only real Dragon Ball Super Fans will get this Video!" meme compilations which are just a slideshow of shitty memes put to ear-splitting EDM that goes on for 10:03 and have 8 mid-roll adverts. Low effort shit like that really annoys me.

I guess you also have the GT and Toyotarō haters who can be really Toxic as well. I know GT was pretty lame but just move-on already and just leave it be. Also while I don't read the Super Manga that often, I can see that Toyotarō is pretty decent at drawing and gets too much hate imo. Just don't read it if you don't like it.

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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by Shinsa » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:18 pm

divad86 wrote:There have been a couple of times I have lost interest in Dragon ball and it was mainly because I felt the fandom was toxic. There were times where I felt I was being judged because I didn't have then Kanzenban volumes, the original 42 volumes of the manga in Japanese, and/or the Dragon Boxes. At the time it made me very insecure because all I had was what Funimation had released (DVD season sets then moving on to the Blu-Ray sets) and Viz (All 42 volumes then getting the Viz Bigs). It made me feel insecure for a long time. Even though I was aware of their problems, they were the easiest and cheapest ways for me to enjoy Dragon Ball. I hate to say this but the reason I didn't post often was because I felt that way when I came onto this forum. When I'd see the threads that say that the Funimation and Viz products were terrible I felt like I was being judged and my love for Dragon Ball was being attacked. Even though nobody came out and said it I got the impression people were saying "If you don't have the Kanzenban, the original Japanese volumes, or the Dragon Boxes then why do you even like Dragon Ball and why are you even here." Now if this came off as rude or offensive then I apologize but I just wanted to get that off of my chest. I have learned to drown out said opinions, form my own, and enjoy what I have regardless of their shortcomings. I just want to say that these were my own odd opinions of fandom being toxic and as I look back on it I feel it was a dumb way to see it as that. I do sometimes come into the the forum and when I still see threads like the ones I talked about before, I still get that impression from some people even though they are not directly coming out and saying it. Other than that, I feel that this is a good forum to talk about Dragon Ball and other than my version of toxic I don't believe the fandom is that bad.
You're not alone friend, I know exactly how you feel. All fandoms have elitists and Dragonball is no different. I find It's best to filter out and ignore the toxic people and follow along with people you can have constructive conversations with.

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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by Zephyr » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:21 pm

ABED wrote:I know what it means, I'm asking if others understand because bringing up disagreements instead of HOW they disagree makes it seem like disagreeing in and of itself is toxic.
Don't get me started. I can't count the number of times I've seen, or been engaged in, a pretty civil and straightforward disagreement about something or another (and working through the baby steps necessary to identify the actual point of contention so the conversation can actually move forward), with people trying to change the subject to something that everyone agrees on.

There's wanting to reduce/prevent toxicity, and there's anti-intellectualism/laziness/wanting to create a hive mind.
ABED wrote:Remember being told if you have a problem with someone/something, write a letter, then put it in a drawer and never let anyone see it? Now everyone is doing the former, but not the latter.
I've started to do that, actually. I'll often write a huge post in response to someone, only to delete the entire thing before posting it, saying "nah, it's not worth it", because I got what I wanted out of my system.

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Re: Does Dragon Ball have the largest, least toxic, fandom in existence of fictional franchises?

Post by ABED » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:46 am

I'm working at getting better at it. I'll admit, I like being right (actually it's more winning than being correct), but I don't want to make things personal. Ideally we could all disagree, even vehemently, but leave a debate on friendly terms.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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