What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by ABED » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:31 pm

Calling it a sacrifice is implying that Yamcha gave his life intentionally. He was killed by a monster who was stronger and willing to sacrifice himself to kill his enemy. It's not like when Goku gave his life intentionally to stop Raditz or Cell.
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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by DNA » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:45 am

ABED wrote:Calling it a sacrifice is implying that Yamcha gave his life intentionally. He was killed by a monster who was stronger and willing to sacrifice himself to kill his enemy. It's not like when Goku gave his life intentionally to stop Raditz or Cell.
Not to mention that the only reason the Saibaiman got the best of him was because he was being cocky. Yamcha clearly could have handled him. I don't see it as a tragic death, it is once again expository, a warning to the other fighters to take the battle seriously.

That being said, the reason I didn't like the baseball episode was because everyone was cheating. I would have liked it much more if everyone actually tried to play seriously and Yamcha would just be amazing at it. I'm not even that fond of Yamcha and I still felt sorry for him, even on his moment to shine, he still his the joke.
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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by AnzuMazaki » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:13 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
samuraix123 wrote:I love Yamcha and personally I don't see what's funny about the meme of his death and why it's funny. I'm a dub fan just as much as a sub fan but I will admit I never see the japanese only fans making memes like that.
There was a tie in event in Japan for the movie where fans could pose as dead Yamcha. It's definitely not a west only meme at this point & it also made it's way into DBS when Toei referenced it in the baseball episode.
But I do agree I don't find it funny at all, tbh I don't find any of the meme's this fanbase find funny actually funny (most of the time it's lazy like replacing words or music over something, like how is that supposed to be funny?)
I saw that on Twitter...Why make a movie tie-in meme promotion for a character who is not even mentioned in the movie....

I hate the direction this series is going with the character...It is all "That guy who got blown up by the Saibaiman" and nothing more...Ten years ago, "Yo! Son Goku and Friends Return" treated him better (making him save Bulma, Oolong and Puar from a falling platform with a Soukidan), what happened to that? :(
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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by Luso Saiyan » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:02 am

ABED wrote:Calling it a sacrifice is implying that Yamcha gave his life intentionally.
And he didn't? He was willing to fight a lethal opponent and therefore risk his life doing it.

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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by DNA » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:12 am

Luso Saiyan wrote:
ABED wrote:Calling it a sacrifice is implying that Yamcha gave his life intentionally.
And he didn't? He was willing to fight a lethal opponent and therefore risk his life doing it.
And he did so by being a cocky fool and turning his back on his opponent. Such noble death.
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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by Luso Saiyan » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:19 am

DNA wrote:And he did so by being a cocky fool and turning his back on his opponent. Such noble death.
What does any of that got to do with what I wrote, or the actual argument? You can be a "cocky fool" and be willing to sacrifice your life. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by DNA » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:28 am

Luso Saiyan wrote:
DNA wrote:And he did so by being a cocky fool and turning his back on his opponent. Such noble death.
What does any of that got to do with what I wrote, or the actual argument? You can be a "cocky fool" and be willing to sacrifice your life. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
He intentionally gave his life by showing his back and getting a big explosive hug. Does that sound like a sacrifice for the greater good?
Jiaozi sacrificed himself by blowing up, in vain, but at least he tried.
Ten Shin Han died a noble warriors death by fighting until his last breath.
Piccolo sacrificed himself to shield Gohan.
Yamcha turned his back, acted cocky and was hugged to death.
One of these is not like the others.
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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by Luso Saiyan » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:33 am

DNA wrote:He intentionally gave his life by showing his back and getting a big explosive hug. Does that sound like a sacrifice for the greater good?
Him being there and willing to fight a deadly enemy (which he didn't have to) means he's ready to sacrifice his life for the greater good. That he was caught by surprise during said fight and was eventually killed doesn't mean it wasn't a sacrifice. Or are you implying that he didn't know he could be killed?

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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by DNA » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:37 am

Luso Saiyan wrote:
DNA wrote:He intentionally gave his life by showing his back and getting a big explosive hug. Does that sound like a sacrifice for the greater good?
Him being there and willing to fight a deadly enemy (which he didn't have to) means he's ready to sacrifice his life for the greater good. That he was caught by surprise during said fight and was eventually killed doesn't mean it wasn't a sacrifice. Or are you implying that he didn't know he could be killed?
If he knew, he wouldn't have turned his back and acted cocky. It's really quite obvious dude. If he truly knew how deadly the Saibaiman were, he would have dealt with his opponent permanently.
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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by Luso Saiyan » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:40 am

DNA wrote:If he knew, he wouldn't have turned his back and acted cocky.
He went there to fight the Saiyans. He knew very well that he could die, but he went anyway. Which means he was willing to risk and sacrifice his life for others. Which he did. That fact doesn't change just because he was arrogant and cocky with the saibamen.

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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by DNA » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:46 am

Luso Saiyan wrote:He went there to fight the Saiyans. He knew very well that he could die, but he went anyway. Which means he was willing to risk his life for others. That fact doesn't change just because he was arrogant and cocky with the saibamen.
He was willing to fight the Saiyans no matter the odds. Yet he assumed the Saibaiman were small fry that didn't deserve being taken seriously. You're discussing two different things.
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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by ABED » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:59 am

He was willing to fight an overwhelmingly strong enemy and put it all on the line. That's admirable, but he died due to hubris. Piccolo is the one who heroically gave his life.
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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by Lionel » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:09 am

Completely agree with the sentiment of Yamcha's character being egregiously mishandled as of lately. Not much else was offered to characterisation after the Saiyan arc, but you could at least say that the most visually notorious visage in his life wasn't exploited and popularised while being made to define who he is. Sadly, there doesn't appear to be any attempts made to revision Yamcha into something more respectable and in-depth. He's become a caricature that's known for having been needlessly killed by the sacrificial grunts sprouted up by the barbarian species known as the Saiyans.

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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by Rubens » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:55 am

Regarding the section of the battle against the saibamen, my interpretation is this: until then in the story none of the "z-warriors" - apart from Piccolo (and to a lesser extent Tenshinhan) - was envolved in fights where their lives were at risk since they mostly trained for and fought in tournaments, so they never fought to kill. This was the first time they had to prepare for a battle where their lives were going to be on the line and just like soldiers that go into a battlefield for the first time, they take some time to become truly aware about the reality of the threat.

When the saibamen were spawned and Vegeta proposed to make a game out of it, the earthlings felt somewhat more relieved, taking those fights like "matches" with the intent of "knocking them out"; Tenshinhan knocked out his saibaman and stopped - Vegeta killed it, immediately reminding both humans and saibamen of the real stakes. Sadly, Yamcha knocked out his saibaman and the fight was over, he was ready to handle the rest of them, even though he knew they were dangerous - but he didn't expect (nobody did) that saibaman to kill itself along with him, partly because he was overconfident and short-sighted. That's the dramatic part that reminds the earthlings of how dangerous this battle is.

That however, doesn't make his death less heroic but it isn't a sacrifice either in the same order as Chaozu's - it is an act of bravery and heroism to be willing to step into the battlefield and risk one's life, regardless of the way he dies.
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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by ABED » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:59 am

It absolutely makes his death less heroic. Even if he didn't know the extent of the threat, he shouldn't have gotten cocky. He didn't give up his life willingly for some greater purpose. They weren't relieved to fight one on one because it was more sportslike. They were relieved because they didn't have to fight the Saiyans immediately and it would give Goku more time to arrive.

He knows the world is on the line and he gets cocky and careless. Those aren't heroic traits. It's hubris and he pays the price. The stakes were never in question. The only thing that was in quesiton was the strength of their opponents. Even the least of their enemies poses a threat to their lives if they aren't on their game. Tenshinhan unlike Yamcha wouldn't have let his guard down. It's one of the things that made him the better fighter.

Yamcha didn't die due to act of bravery. Showing up was brave. Turning his back and getting cocky wasn't. He didn't die to save someone else or out of exhaustion or because his enemy was stronger. The Saibaimen weren't as strong as him. He simply got careless.

Lionel, he wasn't needlessly killed. Toriyama used his death to great effect. It told the heroes and the audience that anything could happen.
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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by Cursed Lemon » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:41 am

The DBZ movies (namely the earlier ones) had all this shit on lock.

Give the supporting characters mooks to battle. Make their fight scenes cinematically interesting, focus on their unique abilities. Let them show a little bit of character. Zero need to over-indulge in their presence.
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Re: What to do about Yamcha's characterization? Be Peaceful.

Post by Waluigiman » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:32 pm

What I believe how he should be handled in the future is the following options or a combination of them:
1. Have Yamcha show the insecurity about himself just like he did in Dragon Ball Fighterz in the show: You would think that after seeing how distant he had become from his friends and seeing that no one even thought about him in the tournament of power, he will begin to try to undo this by trying to become stronger(that is If Yamcha still training not true) and try to be more involved. Maybe have a subplot involving his frustration about his constant failures and maybe even have him say that he should had stayed in the desert if he is no longer seems important to his friends nor to himself. Yeah give him a emo moment only to prove him wrong. :lol:
2. Have Yamcha participate in tournaments and mook battles: If they are not willing to make Yamcha kill strong enemies, I am fine with him defeat strong/er opponents that he does not have to kill. Imagine him fight a character stronger than him and defeat him by using strategies in a tournament. That or make him fight some Frieza soldiers or whatever minor antagonist, I don't think it is too much to ask to let him defeat nobodies of unknown strength so nobody will complain that he suddenly became too overpowered.
3. Make him do something useful in a major story: I don't expect him to kill the main antagonist but I think he will earn respect by the fanbase by having him stall the enemy while Goku does something or reveal a weakness to his stronger allies. I want something like this, so that will put him in a better light.
Like what people said, make him a magnet of consolation prizes: For example(but not mandatory): Doesn't marry Bulma, marry someone else(even if he is past his prime but that is no issue because of the Dragon Balls), Loses in a tournament but manages to go past the first round or even the second round if generous enough. Loses in a major fight but earns the respect of others. and stuff like that.

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