Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

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Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by GreatJaiyaman » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:28 am

Similar to what Hunter x Hunter has? I love the og DB but it is very dated, and when Super eventually ends they could do what Hollywood does to everything and reboot/prequal. A lot of the sexual innuendo isn't really appropriate for today's modern world, so some of that could be cut, (not trying to sound PC). But a new HD Dragonball with new animation and a new score would be cool imo. Also, this new generation of fans aren't too familiar with of DB. What does everyone think?
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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by Kataphrut » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:33 am

I'm not sure about a full reboot, but a Kai-fied recut with better pacing would be nice. Unfortunately I don't think Dragonball is popular enough to be worth the effort, especially since they already had their chance with Kai and completely skipped it.

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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:53 am

It needs a reboot no more than Z, GT, or any of the movies need something of this type.

Which is to say -- no, it doesn't.

The idea that it's "Dated" has always struck me as rather silly, and has always seemed to me to come from Funimation's poor handling of the franchise in the west that gives the original series a somewhat less modern feel than they put on Z and GT.
The sexual humour is something that persists all the way to now in Super, pretty much.

As for HD and people tending to not be interested... If someone wants to miss out on the best third of the original storyline, that's their loss. I would rather have an actual HD master of the classic 1986 Dragon Ball anime than have Toei throw some crappy-looking, ugly mess with a blurry oil filter on our screens with a new, inferior soundtrack and half the voices replaced with people who could never hope to replace the originals. Even if churning out some crap like that did introduce more fans to the pre-Z material. If Toei wanted to do something like that, they should have started Kai at the beginning of the story.
And honestly, especially if we're going with the angle of new animation... The animation across OG DB was generally better than Z's animation was until the Boo arc. It's classic animation that holds up beautifully to this day. Replacing that with the kind of churned-out ugly crap they throw on TV for Super would be an insult. (Yes, I know Super's animation improved after the ResF arc. Still looked janky. Yes, I know that last episode of Super looked fantastic. A handful of nice-looking episodes doesn't make the average animation better than what Toei were doing in the '80s and '90s)
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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:03 pm

Agreed with Robo, the OG Dragon Ball is perfectly fine as it is. In fact it's arguably in better shape than Z because while it does have filler, the filler overall does a much better job at integrating itself into the story than Z's filler did.

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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:00 pm

Well, if we're going to talk about whether it needs to happen, no it shouldn't, but you could say that with any of its subsequent sequels (Z, GT, Super). It's a perfectly fine, even great story as is. Everything could have ended at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai and generations could have looked at the 16 volumes of the manga and 153 anime episodes as a story with a beginning, middle and an end.

Should it happen is another question, and a little more subjective at that. It's easy to say with retrospect that the Z portion of the story made Dragon Ball the cultural phenomenon that it is and that it wouldn't have reached the same heights of popularity, but if Toriyama stopped writing after Piccolo Jr we wouldn't have known any better. Would there have been fans crying out for more and writing their fanfictions about what would have happened after? Sure. We had that despite the manga concluding at 519 chapters and three anime series comprising of 508 episodes, 17 movies and 3 TV specials in total. Many would argue the series didn't need that much material, but a lot of it was well regarded so one could make an argument that its existence has, for the most part, been justified.

I don't like all of the material that has come since original Dragon Ball but most of it I do like. Should original Dragon Ball be rebooted I'll probably have the same response. While it will all be ultimately unnecessary, as a fan of this franchise I'm willing to give it a chance as there is always the possibility I will enjoy even parts of the reboot, if not the whole thing. If it's not worth it, fine we'll always have the original Dragon Ball on our shelves to watch or read and enjoy. If it's good, great, we have another great show in our collections. Overall though, as long as no one tries to erase the original from history it's fine.
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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:25 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:It's easy to say with retrospect that the Z portion of the story made Dragon Ball the cultural phenomenon that it is and that it wouldn't have reached the same heights of popularity
Common misconception there.

In actual fact, Dragon Ball was always pretty big. In fact, by quite a wide margin, the early run of the DB anime had the highest ratings the franchise has ever had, and quite consistently at that.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by Kuwabara » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:13 pm

I'm open to a remake, but the various original TV series need reference quality releases first and foremost.
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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by ABED » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:38 pm

Not sure what good reason there is to justify a reboot of DB.
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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by PFM18 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:07 pm

Z needed Kai because there was such an intense amount of crappy filler and the pacing was so bad, that it needed something that cut things down. ODB does have filler, but to me at least, it doesn't even necessarily "feel" like filler. It feels like it is enhancing the adventure/experience of things. But more importantly, the pacing was reasonable, and so it simply doesn't need an assortment of things taken out of it for it to be more watchable.

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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by Lukmendes » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:48 pm

GreatJaiyaman wrote:A lot of the sexual innuendo isn't really appropriate for today's modern world, so some of that could be cut, (not trying to sound PC).
I mean, DB is primarly a Japanese product, and to this day they're still okay with all of the sexual humor, so if a reboot ever happened, I don't see them removing it, chances are they'd add more of those jokes to keep the spirit of the original lol.

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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:04 pm

No. Dragon Ball is perfectly fine the way it is. It's not Japan's problem if you're too much of a sensitive wuss and can't handle a joke.

Leave the shows and movies as they are without trying to "improve" but rather release them in proper high definition which is what FUNimation has miserably failed as they time and time again tried to be edgy and give the English market a shitty 16x9 AR version of Dragon Ball Z. They even went as to claim "the original intended version", yeah, as if.
GreatJaiyaman wrote:A lot of the sexual innuendo isn't really appropriate for today's modern world, so some of that could be cut, (not trying to sound PC).
But you are.

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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:20 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:It's easy to say with retrospect that the Z portion of the story made Dragon Ball the cultural phenomenon that it is and that it wouldn't have reached the same heights of popularity
Common misconception there.

In actual fact, Dragon Ball was always pretty big. In fact, by quite a wide margin, the early run of the DB anime had the highest ratings the franchise has ever had, and quite consistently at that.
It was certainly always very popular, but on a worldwide scale that's been widely overshadowed by the recognizability and popularity of DBZ. And popularity is not all about ratings, remember in Japan toy and merchandise sales are everything, the lack of OG DB representation in comparison to Z and even Super (which features Z fanservice quite heavily) is certainly not promising.

Arguably a lot of that has to do with distributors like Funimation trying with OG DB (in Funi's case scrapping their first dubbing attempt, which was in actuality down to bad timeslots) before putting all their energy into promoting DBZ from that point on.

TOEI sadly seem to have given in to that narrative by starting Kai with Raditz, releasing the DBZ movies before the OG DB movies, and with the 30th anniversary of DBZ next year I'm sure it will be the first to get a new HD remaster again and pandering to DBZ, not OG DB moments almost exclusively in Super.

It may have been popular, but outside of early TV ratings TOEI doesn't seem to have that much confidence in OG DB to even consider doing a reboot.
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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:31 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:It was certainly always very popular, but on a worldwide scale that's been widely overshadowed by the recognizability and popularity of DBZ. And popularity is not all about ratings, remember in Japan toy and merchandise sales are everything, the lack of OG DB representation in comparison to Z and even Super (which features Z fanservice quite heavily) is certainly not promising.

Arguably a lot of that has to do with distributors like Funimation trying with OG DB (in Funi's case scrapping their first dubbing attempt, which was in actuality down to bad timeslots) before putting all their energy into promoting DBZ from that point on.

TOEI sadly seem to have given in to that narrative by starting Kai with Raditz, releasing the DBZ movies before the OG DB movies, and with the 30th anniversary of DBZ next year I'm sure it will be the first to get a new HD remaster again and pandering to DBZ, not OG DB moments almost exclusively in Super.

It may have been popular, but outside of early TV ratings TOEI doesn't seem to have that much confidence in OG DB to even consider doing a reboot.
Perhaps at the time of Dragon Ball Kai's original broadcast run, TOEI thought it was the best for both markets (Japanese + Western) to kick it off with Dragon Ball Z as it's vastly more popular everywhere when it comes to the Dragon Ball franchise.

Dragon Ball is obviously known in most Western countries though Canada and US fans typically think of Dragon Ball Z and now, Dragon Ball Super. Gotta say, calling Dragon Ball as "OG DB" is kind of insulting because it insinuates no one knows when we're talking about which specific Dragon Ball series or movie, we don't see "OG DBZ" or at least.. yet (Kai technically qualifies as DBZ).

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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by Forte224 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:47 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:It's easy to say with retrospect that the Z portion of the story made Dragon Ball the cultural phenomenon that it is and that it wouldn't have reached the same heights of popularity
Common misconception there.

In actual fact, Dragon Ball was always pretty big. In fact, by quite a wide margin, the early run of the DB anime had the highest ratings the franchise has ever had, and quite consistently at that.
It was certainly always very popular, but on a worldwide scale that's been widely overshadowed by the recognizability and popularity of DBZ. And popularity is not all about ratings, remember in Japan toy and merchandise sales are everything, the lack of OG DB representation in comparison to Z and even Super (which features Z fanservice quite heavily) is certainly not promising.

Arguably a lot of that has to do with distributors like Funimation trying with OG DB (in Funi's case scrapping their first dubbing attempt, which was in actuality down to bad timeslots) before putting all their energy into promoting DBZ from that point on.

TOEI sadly seem to have given in to that narrative by starting Kai with Raditz, releasing the DBZ movies before the OG DB movies, and with the 30th anniversary of DBZ next year I'm sure it will be the first to get a new HD remaster again and pandering to DBZ, not OG DB moments almost exclusively in Super.

It may have been popular, but outside of early TV ratings TOEI doesn't seem to have that much confidence in OG DB to even consider doing a reboot.
And didn't the full color manga start with (what the anime calls) Z and then go back and call the rest the Boyhood arc?

Either way, it's obvious Z holds more popularity in Japan as well as around the world. People who say otherwise are kind of fooling themselves.

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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:06 am

JohnnyCashKami wrote:. Gotta say, calling Dragon Ball as "OG DB" is kind of insulting because it insinuates no one knows when we're talking about which specific Dragon Ball series or movie, we don't see "OG DBZ" or at least.. yet (Kai technically qualifies as DBZ).
Because Dragon Ball can either refer specifically to the first anime series or the entire franchise as a whole (the manga doesn’t even distinguish the two).

OG Dragon Ball is just an easy way to specify you’re talking about the portion of the manga that was adapted into 153 episodes of the anime before Z got added to the title.

We don’t see “OG DBZ” because there’s no reason to do so. People know when you’re talking about Dragon Ball Z you meant the 291 episode anime series plus the movies and specials that starts with Raditz arriving on earth. And people know when you say “Dragon Ball Kai” you meant the mostly filler-less recut of DBZ. No need for confusion.

If I ask “What’s your favorite Dragon Ball villain?” Freeza is a valid answer.

But if I ask “What is your favorite OG Dragon Ball villain?” People know I’m asking about villains from Pilaf up to Piccolo JR and anyone after that isn’t an answer

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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by Waluigiman » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:42 pm

I have mixed feelings about this:
Why I want it:

1. It could be modified to fit with later continuity.

2. They cold modify plot points it so we could see all the stuff that we wanted to happen. Anything can happen because the power scaling was not as ridiculous and does not get in the way with the story or character usage.

3. They could make the Dragon Ball era characters more popular by giving them better development and awesome moments. Puar and Oolong may get more popular and Yamcha will be written better as he is clearly a proto-Vegeta given of how Vegeta is used to show how strong is the villain of the story only that Vegeta does not appear weak because he is given more victories. Chiaotzu and Tien could be given better characterization instead of being "empty".

4. They could make the good era even longer by giving it more adventures.

5. Maybe they will introduce the concept of flight much earlier so the characters can be on a xenoverse game.

Why I don't:
1. They might ruin Yamcha even more by over-pandering the fanbase with his memetic loser status.
2. Probably going to make it a Saiyan only show: Goku is the only one who fights, everyone else just watches or is not present.
3. Probably is too much for the animators and we won't see the new material while Toriyama is still alive.

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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by KBABZ » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:33 pm

Just on a broader note, I find the idea of rebooting only the "original" Dragon Ball to be laughable considering it's intrinsically part of the later parts of the story (ie Z and GT/Super). Rebooting the original Dragon Ball basically means rebooting Z as well considering the two are connected, and it'd be quite strange if they, say, remade the first Dragon Ball to make it "better" for modern audiences whilst still having it dovetail into Z.
JohnnyCashKami wrote:Gotta say, calling Dragon Ball as "OG DB" is kind of insulting because it insinuates no one knows when we're talking about which specific Dragon Ball series or movie, we don't see "OG DBZ" or at least.. yet (Kai technically qualifies as DBZ).
What MasenkoHA said, I use it for a point of clarification. The name of the original anime is also the name of not just the manga, but also the entire franchise, which can encompass everything from Z to GT and Super and, if you want to get really broad, it can also encompass things like Xenoverse, FighterZ and Heroes. Saying "OG DB" is a very handy four-letter all-caps way to immediately let people know that you're talking about "The Kid Goku era plus the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai", especially for fans who might prefer the story covered by the original anime over the later Z/GT/Super content, such as myself.

We don't need to use OG DBZ because we already have Kai for Kai. If Toei called that edit by exactly the same name, then we would have had to come up with our own fan-made ways to differentiate the two, like "Classic DBZ" or "DBZ 90s/DBZ 10s". In Japan they may have to use it due to the video game also called Dragon Ball Z, though.

This isn't a problem unique to Dragon Ball: fans of Star Wars can't start a conversation with "I love the first one" because that provides no context. Is that Episode I? The 1977 film? Or are they thinking of the new movies and are talking about The Force Awakens? Similarly with Ratchet & Clank: it can refer to the franchise, the original 2002 game, the PS4 game, the animated movie, the novelization of the movie... you have to be specific.

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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by SheonGT » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:04 pm

I don’t think there could ever be a Dragon Ball score as well crafted and placed as Kikuchi’s. A remake would just be really awkward.

DBZ benefitted from losing filler which dragon Ball mostly doesn’t suffer from.
And Toriyama’s humor is sexual. And bathroom humor. Like the Pee Pee Candy Oolong eats. It defines DB and without it you have kind of a bland Journey to the west retelling until Raditz or at least Piccolo
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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:56 pm

SheonGT wrote:I. It defines DB and without it you have kind of a bland Journey to the west retelling until Raditz or at least Piccolo
The Journey to the West stuff more or less ended after the first arc

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Re: Does the original Dragonball need a reboot?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:12 am

MasenkoHA wrote:The Journey to the West stuff more or less ended after the first arc
More or less. Some bits of pre-Z filler notwithstanding at least.

Image

Also worth noting that some aspects of Tenshinhan are partly based on Erlang Shen, a Chinese/Buddhist deity who is also a notable supporting character in Journey to the West and who's relationship/rivalry with Wukong throughout the book shares a few basic but notable parallels with Tenshinhan and Goku's.

But yeah, the vast majority of the 1 to 1 comparisons between Journey to the West and Dragon Ball effectively end after the Pilaf arc, where DB settles in as a much more general (if still HEAVILY Toriyama-ized) Wuxia epic than a direct Journey to the West spoof. That still though doesn't stop it from occasionally making a stray riff on Journey every now and again later on (like again, with Tenshinhan at least partly).
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Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
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