The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

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The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Fionordequester » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:23 pm

So, clearly not everyone here was satisfied with the "Special Beam Cannon". It was a fairly cheesy name for what was supposed to be a fairly vicious sounding attack. But of course, leaving it untranslated isn't a valid choice either. For most English viewers, it'd sound like Piccolo was just shouting a random word, since we don't actually know Japanese.

Yet, if you DO translate it...it comes out to something like...

"Demon's Penetrating Killing Light Gun"

A name that would then horribly butcher the intent behind the name; that it's a vicious sounding attack that would utterly demolish the poor fool that got hit with it. Plus, it's way more syllables than what would actually fit in the mouth flaps (since Makankōsappō is only five syllables).

So...how WOULD you localize it? What name would you come up with? Me personally, as an amateur localizer myself, I would come at it from this angle...

-------------------------------------

1) It HAS to be five syllables

2) The word "demon" (or some synonym) has to be in it somewhere.

3) It has to REALLY sound like it hurts

-------------------------------------

So from that I arrive at two choices. I have the...

-------------------------------------

1) "Burning Demon Drill"

2) "Infernal Death Wave"

3) "Demon Death Driver"

EDIT:

4) "Burning Death Spiral"

5) "Demon Death Spiral"

-------------------------------------

What do you all think of that? Any other suggestions?
Last edited by Fionordequester on Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:26 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Cetra » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:25 pm

Höllenspirale, Hell's Spiral as in German.
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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Fionordequester » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:30 pm

Oooh, that's a good one! Or maybe "Burning Death Spiral"?
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by KBABZ » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:39 pm

Honestly, I probably wouldn't translate it considering what a mouthful it is. But if I absolutely had to, Infernal Death Wave sounds the coolest to me.

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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Kaboom » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:44 pm

I've practically always had a simple localization in mind... "Demon Drill Cannon." Gets all the key translation points across, has some alliteration with "Demon" and "Drill," and it can easily become "Darkness Drill Cannon" for TV broadcast if that must be a thing that happens.
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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:51 pm

Death Spiral Cannon?
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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Hulk10 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:54 pm

How about Demon Spear Beam?
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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Forte224 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:37 pm

I'd leave it alone, just like Kaioken. Makankosappo sounds cool, and I'm sure I would've loved it as a kid even more.

Anyway, it's the name of an attack so I see no reason to change it the same way I would actual expository dialogue or whatever.

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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Fionordequester » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:13 am

Forte224 wrote:I'd leave it alone, just like Kaioken. Makankosappo sounds cool, and I'm sure I would've loved it as a kid even more.
That's not usually what's important, though. What's usually important, as a localizer, is that you get the EXACT same feeling from watching the dub as you get from watching the original version. So for the Japanese, they would have...

Makankosappo = "A really hyperbolic, crazy sounding name that's fairly descriptive of what exactly is it"

But for most English viewers, we would have...

Makankosappo = "A random name that happens to sound cool"

You see the difference between those two perspectives, right? How you can break down each part of the name in Japanese, but can't in English?
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:06 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Forte224 wrote:I'd leave it alone, just like Kaioken. Makankosappo sounds cool, and I'm sure I would've loved it as a kid even more.
That's not usually what's important, though. What's usually important, as a localizer, is that you get the EXACT same feeling from watching the dub as you get from watching the original version. So for the Japanese, they would have...

Makankosappo = "A really hyperbolic, crazy sounding name that's fairly descriptive of what exactly is it"

But for most English viewers, we would have...

Makankosappo = "A random name that happens to sound cool"

You see the difference between those two perspectives, right? How you can break down each part of the name in Japanese, but can't in English?
At the same time a lot of the existing names aren't translated either, like Kaioken mentioned above (which loses a bit of its meaning because Kaio is called King Kai in the dub) as well as the famous Kamehameha.

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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Forte224 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:26 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Forte224 wrote:I'd leave it alone, just like Kaioken. Makankosappo sounds cool, and I'm sure I would've loved it as a kid even more.
That's not usually what's important, though. What's usually important, as a localizer, is that you get the EXACT same feeling from watching the dub as you get from watching the original version. So for the Japanese, they would have...

Makankosappo = "A really hyperbolic, crazy sounding name that's fairly descriptive of what exactly is it"

But for most English viewers, we would have...

Makankosappo = "A random name that happens to sound cool"

You see the difference between those two perspectives, right? How you can break down each part of the name in Japanese, but can't in English?
So you want Kamehameha to be called "Turtle Destruction Wave"? I get what you're saying, but let's not deny it, part of the point of these names is that they actually sound pretty awesome. That's totally lost when it's translated literally into English, and therefore you lose the exact same feeling the Japanese viewers got regardless of how it's translated.

Besides, consistency is also a thing, and if you can't translate all of the attack names into English without it being awkward, then you shouldn't translate any of them that way. You simply can't translate Kamehameha into English and have it fit five totally separate lip flaps and make it sound natural. Let kids hear these names in Japanese and learn what they mean on their own some day.

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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:37 am

Forte224 wrote:So you want Kamehameha to be called "Turtle Destruction Wave"? I get what you're saying, but let's not deny it, part of the point of these names is that they actually sound pretty awesome. That's totally lost when it's translated literally into English, and therefore you lose the exact same feeling the Japanese viewers got regardless of how it's translated.

Besides, consistency is also a thing, and if you can't translate all of the attack names into English without it being awkward, then you shouldn't translate any of them that way. You simply can't translate Kamehameha into English and have it fit five totally separate lip flaps and make it sound natural. Let kids hear these names in Japanese and learn what they mean on their own some day.
I will say that an advantage with the manga is that it can include some margin notes for attack name translations and stuff like that, whereas the anime can't really unless it wants to hard-burn some subtitles, or change a line of dialogue to explain what the name means.

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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Forte224 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:52 am

KBABZ wrote:
Forte224 wrote:So you want Kamehameha to be called "Turtle Destruction Wave"? I get what you're saying, but let's not deny it, part of the point of these names is that they actually sound pretty awesome. That's totally lost when it's translated literally into English, and therefore you lose the exact same feeling the Japanese viewers got regardless of how it's translated.

Besides, consistency is also a thing, and if you can't translate all of the attack names into English without it being awkward, then you shouldn't translate any of them that way. You simply can't translate Kamehameha into English and have it fit five totally separate lip flaps and make it sound natural. Let kids hear these names in Japanese and learn what they mean on their own some day.
I will say that an advantage with the manga is that it can include some margin notes for attack name translations and stuff like that, whereas the anime can't really unless it wants to hard-burn some subtitles, or change a line of dialogue to explain what the name means.
True, but honestly there are a lot of ways they could've tackled that. Even during commercial breaks they quickly after the eye catch could have some type of Dragon Ball trivia thing that explains an attack that got introduced in that episode. Could make it a quick and fun learning experience. Think "Who's that Pokémon?" but instead the commercial break kicks off with "What does this attack name mean?" and when the break is over answers the question.

But once again, the name of the attacks really don't have much bearing on the show. I don't learn anything about Piccolo's attack by knowing what it means, as the attack sort of speaks for itself. Either way you lose something, so I say just leave those awesome sounding attack names untouched.

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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Fionordequester » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:05 am

Forte224 wrote:So you want Kamehameha to be called "Turtle Destruction Wave"?
Oh c,mon; at least give me a chance before assuming I'd call something a name as lame as that :lol: !

No, what I would instead do is find a fancy way of saying it; one that also keeps it so the first two words sound similar. For example...

-------------------------------------

1) Torto Terror Wave

2) Tortle Missile Bomb

------------------------------------

Would that have been iconic as "Kamehameha" wave? Who knows. But part of the fun of localizing is that you often CAN translate even the most ridiculous of attack names, so long as you're creative enough.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Forte224 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:11 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Forte224 wrote:So you want Kamehameha to be called "Turtle Destruction Wave"?
Oh c,mon; at least give me a chance before assuming I'd call something a name as lame as that :lol: !

No, what I would instead do is find a fancy way of saying it; one that also keeps it so the first two words sound similar. For example...

-------------------------------------

1) Torto Terror Wave

2) Tortle Missile Bomb

------------------------------------
I don't know, if fits the five syllables that are necessary but still would sound awkward as hell, and loses that coolness factor again. It's a pick your poison situation. Does it matter that we know the meaning of the attack? I'd argue no because the attack speaks for itself. At least, it doesn't matter as much is it matters to keep the attack sounding cool. As a kid we loved pretending to throw our own Kamehamehas. I don't imagine we'd have as much fun shouting "Tor-to Ter-ror WAVE!"

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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:12 am

Those still sound awful. Seriously lets just keep the original. There are some things that can be left alone in a translation.
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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Fionordequester » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:17 am

Yeah, but... then again, I also like "Demon Death Spiral" better than "Makankosappo", so, I'd probably be in favor of translating some names, and leaving others alone.

I suppose the Japanese alphabet is such that words like "Kame", "Hame", and "Ha" are much easier to string together. So perhaps translate the names in cases where the English language is built to support them, and DON'T translate them in cases where it's not?
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Forte224 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:19 am

Eh, for me it's all or nothing. Either translate all the names or don't. Preferably don't.

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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:20 am

Forte224 wrote:I don't know, if fits the five syllables that are necessary but still would sound awkward as hell, and loses that coolness factor again. It's a pick your poison situation. Does it matter that we know the meaning of the attack? I'd argue no because the attack speaks for itself. At least, it doesn't matter as much is it matters to keep the attack sounding cool. As a kid we loved pretending to throw our own Kamehamehas. I don't imagine we'd have as much fun shouting "Tor-to Ter-ror WAVE!"
I agree here. If you know Piccolo is evil (which you should) and know that he developed the move specifically to one-shot kill his nemesis Goku, you don't exactly need the translated name. It does help that Piccolo doesn't really have a signature move (aside from blowing up cities), and the Makankosappo is his first move named on-screen and given any emphasis or importance.

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Re: The "Makankōsappō"...How WOULD you localize that?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:25 am

Fionordequester wrote:Yeah, but... then again, I also like "Demon Death Spiral" better than "Makankosappo", so, I'd probably be in favor of translating some names, and leaving others alone.

I suppose the Japanese alphabet is such that words like "Kame", "Hame", and "Ha" are much easier to string together. So perhaps translate the names in cases where the English language is built to support them, and DON'T translate them in cases where it's not?

Then why did you make your Kamehameha suggestions so lame? LOL




Just kidding. I like that you actually try to take an effort to Translate the attack names for the little ones. I can respect that. But no BS&P will allow the word DEATH in the attack. ESPECIALLY if its a dub aimed at children.
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Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:38 am
Enjoy unboxing crap :thumbup:. Your continued support for crap will give us more crap for many years to come! :clap:.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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