Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

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Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by Jord » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:52 am

In Super, Pilaf and co wish for their youth and are suddenly young again. However, this only appears to affect their bodies since they retain their memories etc. (kinda like with Piccolo Daimao). This means that Mai is still around 41 years old. Who thought it was a good idea to start a romance story line between 41 year old Mai and 11 year old Trunks? You've got a grown woman falling in love with a little boy which is slightly pedophilic to say the least. It made me really uncomfortable since it's not even played for laughs (which would be bad in itself)

Of course this isn't the first time that we encountered this since we had that horrible Roshi-Bulma stuff in the beginning of Dragonball. That is also bad but Bulma was at least 16 iirc which is a legal age in a lot of countries.

Why is Dragonball doing this in this day and age? Is pedophilia more accepted within Japan than in the west? (Those awful lolicon drawings spring to mind)
With Dragonball now being worldwide I would expect Toei to be more sensitive with these kind of subjects

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by Lucky_Deity » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:01 pm

It's weird to think about, yes, but I wouldn't think about it too hard, I don't think the majority of people care so it can't be that much of a problem.

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by Paulo Gabriel » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:41 pm

Weird how Toriyama still hasn't been "caught" like Nobuhiro Watsuki..... lol. Just kidding.

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:50 pm

That's one thing I never liked about the modern Mai as she was turned to a child from an adult, and now they pretend she's growing up to be a woman. It's like they're trying to rewrite Dragon Ball's history or something.

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by Gligarman » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:20 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:That's one thing I never liked about the modern Mai as she was turned to a child from an adult, and now they pretend she's growing up to be a woman. It's like they're trying to rewrite Dragon Ball's history or something.
I thought he was just making fun of GT.

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:28 pm

Jeez. Two topics about pedophilia in a single week? That’s a little heavy.

Anyway, this reminds of a thread I made around the time that the Future Trunks arc started airing, where I pointed out the weirdness of Mai being shipped with Trunks, especially in regards to Kid Trunks. I definitely agree that it’s very bizarre that a woman who’s older than Trunks’ mother is suddenly a love interest for him, but I guess I could at least tolerate it in regards to Mai and Future Trunks, but Mai and Kid Trunks? Why? Does anyone honestly find that to be cute?

I guess while we’re on the subject of pedophilia in Dragon Ball, we probably shouldn’t forget that GT did some pretty sketchy things when it came to Pan and Bra, who were both no older than 10 in that series. I have no clue what the hell they were even thinking with that. I don’t want to come to any conclusions, but I’d sure like to hear an explanation on that.

I don’t know if I’d say that Japan is more “accepting” of pedophilia than in the west, since as far as I know, they do have some very clear laws that forbid stuff like that, and contrary to what a lot of people might think, 13 supposedly isn’t legal in the country, but it does seem like the entertainment industry in Japan has some...problems that need to be worked out.

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by Bruma rabu » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:03 pm

I feel like we've had this topic brought up several times now.
Bulma is awesome... but chi-chi is best waifu :wink:

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:42 pm

Bruma rabu wrote:I feel like we've had this topic brought up several times now.
Well, the previous one was about Grandpa Gohan and I was skeptic about that but this? There's some truth to it.

I dunno why Toriyama bothered to bring back the Pilaf Gang, even moreso he turned them back to children all the while they're adults. Pilaf Gang was comedic in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball GT but Dragon Ball Super? What a shame.

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by MyVisionity » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:50 pm

WittyUsername wrote:I guess while we’re on the subject of pedophilia in Dragon Ball, we probably shouldn’t forget that GT did some pretty sketchy things when it came to Pan and Bra, who were both no older than 10 in that series. I have no clue what the hell they were even thinking with that. I don’t want to come to any conclusions, but I’d sure like to hear an explanation on that.
I'm not sure about Pan, but from the looks of it Bra was supposed to be a teenager in GT. I don't think Toei cared too much about any of the official ages/timelines that were out there.

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:49 pm

Jord wrote:In Super, Pilaf and co wish for their youth and are suddenly young again. However, this only appears to affect their bodies since they retain their memories etc. (kinda like with Piccolo Daimao). This means that Mai is still around 41 years old. Who thought it was a good idea to start a romance story line between 41 year old Mai and 11 year old Trunks? You've got a grown woman falling in love with a little boy which is slightly pedophilic to say the least. It made me really uncomfortable since it's not even played for laughs (which would be bad in itself)

Of course this isn't the first time that we encountered this since we had that horrible Roshi-Bulma stuff in the beginning of Dragonball. That is also bad but Bulma was at least 16 iirc which is a legal age in a lot of countries.

Why is Dragonball doing this in this day and age? Is pedophilia more accepted within Japan than in the west? (Those awful lolicon drawings spring to mind)
With Dragonball now being worldwide I would expect Toei to be more sensitive with these kind of subjects
WittyUsername wrote:Jeez. Two topics about pedophilia in a single week? That’s a little heavy.

Anyway, this reminds of a thread I made around the time that the Future Trunks arc started airing, where I pointed out the weirdness of Mai being shipped with Trunks, especially in regards to Kid Trunks. I definitely agree that it’s very bizarre that a woman who’s older than Trunks’ mother is suddenly a love interest for him, but I guess I could at least tolerate it in regards to Mai and Future Trunks, but Mai and Kid Trunks? Why? Does anyone honestly find that to be cute?

I guess while we’re on the subject of pedophilia in Dragon Ball, we probably shouldn’t forget that GT did some pretty sketchy things when it came to Pan and Bra, who were both no older than 10 in that series. I have no clue what the hell they were even thinking with that. I don’t want to come to any conclusions, but I’d sure like to hear an explanation on that.

I don’t know if I’d say that Japan is more “accepting” of pedophilia than in the west, since as far as I know, they do have some very clear laws that forbid stuff like that, and contrary to what a lot of people might think, 13 supposedly isn’t legal in the country, but it does seem like the entertainment industry in Japan has some...problems that need to be worked out.
I'll give you a simple answer ! inhale* *SCREAM* BECAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE JAPAN !

In japan people knows the boundary between a joke and something real they are not snowflakes like us westerner. :lol:
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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by Kokonoe » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:23 pm

Mai with kid Trunks is honestly pretty disgusting. I'm glad Future Mai doesn't have this problem but present time Mai is outright creepy to me.

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:54 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:I guess while we’re on the subject of pedophilia in Dragon Ball, we probably shouldn’t forget that GT did some pretty sketchy things when it came to Pan and Bra, who were both no older than 10 in that series. I have no clue what the hell they were even thinking with that. I don’t want to come to any conclusions, but I’d sure like to hear an explanation on that.
I'm not sure about Pan, but from the looks of it Bra was supposed to be a teenager in GT. I don't think Toei cared too much about any of the official ages/timelines that were out there.
GT takes place five years after the epilogue of Z, so there’s no way Bra would be a teenager by that point. Same goes for Pan.

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by MyVisionity » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:20 am

WittyUsername wrote:
MyVisionity wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:I guess while we’re on the subject of pedophilia in Dragon Ball, we probably shouldn’t forget that GT did some pretty sketchy things when it came to Pan and Bra, who were both no older than 10 in that series. I have no clue what the hell they were even thinking with that. I don’t want to come to any conclusions, but I’d sure like to hear an explanation on that.
I'm not sure about Pan, but from the looks of it Bra was supposed to be a teenager in GT. I don't think Toei cared too much about any of the official ages/timelines that were out there.
GT takes place five years after the epilogue of Z, so there’s no way Bra would be a teenager by that point. Same goes for Pan.
She's a teenager because the writers wanted her to be a teenager. They just ignored her age from the epilogue and/or ignored the time difference and did as they pleased. It was never confirmed, of course, but I thought it was pretty clear she was supposed to be a teen.

With Pan, on the other hand, I think it could go either way. Which admittedly is a bit creepy.

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by Jord » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:12 am

Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:
Jord wrote:In Super, Pilaf and co wish for their youth and are suddenly young again. However, this only appears to affect their bodies since they retain their memories etc. (kinda like with Piccolo Daimao). This means that Mai is still around 41 years old. Who thought it was a good idea to start a romance story line between 41 year old Mai and 11 year old Trunks? You've got a grown woman falling in love with a little boy which is slightly pedophilic to say the least. It made me really uncomfortable since it's not even played for laughs (which would be bad in itself)

Of course this isn't the first time that we encountered this since we had that horrible Roshi-Bulma stuff in the beginning of Dragonball. That is also bad but Bulma was at least 16 iirc which is a legal age in a lot of countries.

Why is Dragonball doing this in this day and age? Is pedophilia more accepted within Japan than in the west? (Those awful lolicon drawings spring to mind)
With Dragonball now being worldwide I would expect Toei to be more sensitive with these kind of subjects
WittyUsername wrote:Jeez. Two topics about pedophilia in a single week? That’s a little heavy.

Anyway, this reminds of a thread I made around the time that the Future Trunks arc started airing, where I pointed out the weirdness of Mai being shipped with Trunks, especially in regards to Kid Trunks. I definitely agree that it’s very bizarre that a woman who’s older than Trunks’ mother is suddenly a love interest for him, but I guess I could at least tolerate it in regards to Mai and Future Trunks, but Mai and Kid Trunks? Why? Does anyone honestly find that to be cute?

I guess while we’re on the subject of pedophilia in Dragon Ball, we probably shouldn’t forget that GT did some pretty sketchy things when it came to Pan and Bra, who were both no older than 10 in that series. I have no clue what the hell they were even thinking with that. I don’t want to come to any conclusions, but I’d sure like to hear an explanation on that.

I don’t know if I’d say that Japan is more “accepting” of pedophilia than in the west, since as far as I know, they do have some very clear laws that forbid stuff like that, and contrary to what a lot of people might think, 13 supposedly isn’t legal in the country, but it does seem like the entertainment industry in Japan has some...problems that need to be worked out.
I'll give you a simple answer ! inhale* *SCREAM* BECAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE JAPAN !

In japan people knows the boundary between a joke and something real they are not snowflakes like us westerner. :lol:
The thing is, in contrary to the Roshi-Bulma thing, the Trunks-Mai thing wasn't treated as a jokej.

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by gantarat » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:41 am

Jord wrote: Why is Dragonball doing this in this day and age? Is pedophilia more accepted within Japan than in the west?
What happend if i say yes.
Precures series that made by Toei have buch couple that male older than heroine who aged around 13-14
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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by TobyS » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:15 am

Fuck I mean when you put it that way you make it hard for anyone to give an alternate take without sounding like they are defending the real world concept of child abuse.

Here's my take.

Mai, Pilaf and Shuu are written from the beginning as physical adults (or perhaps late teens like Yamcha bulma) but with the minds of children. They huddle in embarrassed shame when Pilaf blows a kiss at bulma as method of torture.

Bulma is surprised and details a bunch of gropey sex acts and they are genuinely so horrified they send her away again.

She never met Trunks (until they were both babies...)

So we have two physical children with the minds of children. One who had a stint in an adult body once.
Mai never had a position of authority or power over Trunks. Never met him while she was an adult. And doesn't seduce him using knowledge gained from her years as a physical adult... Trunks is the richest kid on earth and a super saiyan.... If anything Trunks has leverage over her as long as the kids are living with them and being tutored with them and kinds indebted.

I don't think this moral SciFi fantasy grey area can really be discussed in real world terms. I think it'd be weird if it was Launch or something...

I think people overlook how emotionally undeveloped the Pilaf gang always were.

But a second childhood away from a life of self indulgent villainy and with a good education will allow them to become adults (at the same rate as Trunks.)

Or growing up in a post apocalyptic future will do it too.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:49 am

It's still weird, but I'm with TobyS on this issue. You can't look at it through a real world lens because the context is completely different.
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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by Kokonoe » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:16 pm

TobyS wrote:Fuck I mean when you put it that way you make it hard for anyone to give an alternate take without sounding like they are defending the real world concept of child abuse.

Here's my take.

Mai, Pilaf and Shuu are written from the beginning as physical adults (or perhaps late teens like Yamcha bulma) but with the minds of children. They huddle in embarrassed shame when Pilaf blows a kiss at bulma as method of torture.

Bulma is surprised and details a bunch of gropey sex acts and they are genuinely so horrified they send her away again.

She never met Trunks (until they were both babies...)

So we have two physical children with the minds of children. One who had a stint in an adult body once.
Mai never had a position of authority or power over Trunks. Never met him while she was an adult. And doesn't seduce him using knowledge gained from her years as a physical adult... Trunks is the richest kid on earth and a super saiyan.... If anything Trunks has leverage over her as long as the kids are living with them and being tutored with them and kinds indebted.

I don't think this moral SciFi fantasy grey area can really be discussed in real world terms. I think it'd be weird if it was Launch or something...

I think people overlook how emotionally undeveloped the Pilaf gang always were.

But a second childhood away from a life of self indulgent villainy and with a good education will allow them to become adults (at the same rate as Trunks.)

Or growing up in a post apocalyptic future will do it too.
I think it's important to separate a child-like personality and the mind of a child. Goku as a adult has a child-like personality in the same way, but you can see very clearly in the actions he makes that he is an adult, the same goes for Mai and the rest of Pilaf's gang in their very deliberate scheming and manipulation as well as terrorism.

A child-like personality is someone who has a simple yet naive look on things, whereas the mind of a child lacks experience and the development to properly understand the consequences of their and others actions. Mai is very clear in this regard being that her main strength in Dragon Ball is her calculating and intelligent forms of tactics. She knows the outcomes, she knows what's going to occur and she's aware of the consequences. She's no child or fool despite having some child-like qualities in certain areas. Let's be real, most adults have attributes such as this despite being well, an adult.

So when it gets to the point in Dragon Ball Super where she ends up falling for kid Trunks, it is just as it appears to be, essentially pedophilia. This series isn't exactly shy from this either, and if you read comments from Toriyama outside of the series, he can be questionable in this regard.

I think it's important to acknowledge these issues for what they are despite our love for this series because they deserved to be criticized.

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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by ABED » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:58 pm

Mai is very clear in this regard being that her main strength in Dragon Ball is her calculating and intelligent forms of tactics.
The whole Pilaf gang is incredibly dense. I'd hardly call her calculating or intelligent.

Remember, this is a world where magical wishes are granted, so the rules that govern normal behavior aren't the same. The reason we condemn pedophilia is the issue of power, both physical and mental, an adult has over a child. Mai has none of that. Also, if she's given a child's body. She retains her memories, but if you want to get scientific, her brain would also be that of a child.

Earnest question, does anyone here have this problem when watching the Tom Hanks movie Big? His and Elizabeth Perkins' characters have sex and even after she finds out the truth, she never once acknowledges how icky it is.
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Re: Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

Post by LordCrumb » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:34 pm

Considering they barely acknowledge that she is still adult age, I don't care. They clearly made them children again with the intent of making them child like.. which is how they act.

On a character appeal, I was stoked they brought the Pilaf gang back in Super. I loved them in Dragon Ball, and missed the in Z (even though I accept the Z product would not have worked with them). Super allows more humour.

And then let's face it, women who are attracted to younger boys have way more leniency in the court of public opionin. Reverse the genders and then you may as well put a noose around your neck and jump.

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