Pedophilia in Dragon Ball

[ABED]

On a character appeal, I was stoked they brought the Pilaf gang back in Super. I loved them in Dragon Ball, and missed the in Z (even though I accept the Z product would not have worked with them). Super allows more humour.

I know this is beside the point, but DBZ is still DB. Pilaf still would've fit that world, just like he fit in the Piccolo Daimao arc which is as dark as any DB story got. I wish people would let go of the artificial separation between DB and DBZ.

[WittyUsername]

The whole Pilaf gang is incredibly dense. I'd hardly call her calculating or intelligent.

Remember, this is a world where magical wishes are granted, so the rules that govern normal behavior aren't the same. The reason we condemn pedophilia is the issue of power, both physical and mental, an adult has over a child. Mai has none of that. Also, if she's given a child's body. She retains her memories, but if you want to get scientific, her brain would also be that of a child.

I’m...not sure that’s a good defense.

[ABED]

The whole Pilaf gang is incredibly dense. I'd hardly call her calculating or intelligent.

Remember, this is a world where magical wishes are granted, so the rules that govern normal behavior aren't the same. The reason we condemn pedophilia is the issue of power, both physical and mental, an adult has over a child. Mai has none of that. Also, if she's given a child's body. She retains her memories, but if you want to get scientific, her brain would also be that of a child.

I’m...not sure that’s a good defense.

Alone, no, but taken in conjunction with it being a universe with magic and her being a child makes it different.

And so we're all clear, this is fiction. I'm not making an argument for pedophilia. I'm not a member of NAMBLA.

[LordCrumb]

I know this is beside the point, but DBZ is still DB. Pilaf still would've fit that world, just like he fit in the Piccolo Daimao arc which is as dark as any DB story got. I wish people would let go of the artificial separation between DB and DBZ.

Dragon Ball Z is a very much different story, style and genre than Dragon Ball.

I'm allowed to have my opinions on that.

[JulieYBM]

Lolicons and shoutacons are not pedophiles. They have no interest in real kids. A pedophile might also be a lolicon or shoutacon but the three are otherwise not connected.

As for the lolicon content in Dragon Ball: who in the real world is getting hurt?

[Dr. Casey]

Earnest question, does anyone here have this problem when watching the Tom Hanks movie Big? His and Elizabeth Perkins' characters have sex and even after she finds out the truth, she never once acknowledges how icky it is.

Never heard of the movie before now, but yeah, sounds icky. The main issue when it comes to sex and the ability to consent is because the person is mentally underdeveloped, not because they're physically so. Or, in other words, if a girl fell for this guy and wanted to enter a relationship with him, that would be perfectly okay because he's mentally a normal 42 year old man. Maybe a little odd, granted, but I wouldn't want him to be without a relationship forever just because of his medical condition.

(... well, glancing down at some of the comments, the picture might or might not be legit. Either way, you get the point.)

[astarisborn94]

Jeez. Two topics about pedophilia in a single week? That’s a little heavy.

Anyway, this reminds of a thread I made around the time that the Future Trunks arc started airing, where I pointed out the weirdness of Mai being shipped with Trunks, especially in regards to Kid Trunks. I definitely agree that it’s very bizarre that a woman who’s older than Trunks’ mother is suddenly a love interest for him, but I guess I could at least tolerate it in regards to Mai and Future Trunks, but Mai and Kid Trunks? Why? Does anyone honestly find that to be cute?

I guess while we’re on the subject of pedophilia in Dragon Ball, we probably shouldn’t forget that GT did some pretty sketchy things when it came to Pan and Bra, who were both no older than 10 in that series. I have no clue what the hell they were even thinking with that. I don’t want to come to any conclusions, but I’d sure like to hear an explanation on that.

I don’t know if I’d say that Japan is more “accepting” of pedophilia than in the west, since as far as I know, they do have some very clear laws that forbid stuff like that, and contrary to what a lot of people might think, 13 supposedly isn’t legal in the country, but it does seem like the entertainment industry in Japan has some...problems that need to be worked out.

Technically, thirteen is the legal age of consent according to national law. In practice, however, you're not allowed to have sex at that age as most prefectures have the age of consent at sixteen, seventeen, or eighteen. So yeah, the laws aren't any more favorable towards minors having sexual contacts than the United States.

[MyVisionity]

I know this is beside the point, but DBZ is still DB. Pilaf still would've fit that world, just like he fit in the Piccolo Daimao arc which is as dark as any DB story got. I wish people would let go of the artificial separation between DB and DBZ.

There's nothing artificial about it, at least in the anime. I think the Piccolo saga is actually pretty silly compared to the later story arcs. I can't really see the Pilaf gang pulling their stunts in DBZ unless it was some kind of filler arc or cameo.

If anything there seems to be more of an artificial reconciliation between the two series.

[ABED]

I know this is beside the point, but DBZ is still DB. Pilaf still would've fit that world, just like he fit in the Piccolo Daimao arc which is as dark as any DB story got. I wish people would let go of the artificial separation between DB and DBZ.

There's nothing artificial about it, at least in the anime. I think the Piccolo saga is actually pretty silly compared to the later story arcs. I can't really see the Pilaf gang pulling their stunts in DBZ unless it was some kind of filler arc or cameo.

If anything there seems to be more of an artificial reconciliation between the two series.

How was the Piccolo Daimao arc silly? It begins with Kuririn's murder. DBZ has Kaio-sama, a Super Sentai parody, the Great Saiyaman, and Buu, just to name a few things that are very much in line with early DB. Your comment comes from a place of ignorance.

Dragon Ball Z is a very much different story, style and genre than Dragon Ball.

I'm allowed to have my opinions on that.

Why do you feel the need to add that last sentence? DBZ is most definitely not a different genre than DB. It's still a martial arts fantasy.

Never heard of the movie before now, but yeah, sounds icky. The main issue when it comes to sex and the ability to consent is because the person is mentally underdeveloped, not because they're physically so.

Where are you from that you've never heard of Big? Tom Hanks is one of the biggest movie stars ever and Big was one of his most significant films. And go back to my posts because I covered what you're talking about.

[Dr. Casey]

Where are you from that you've never heard of Big? Tom Hanks is one of the biggest movie stars ever and Big was one of his most significant films. And go back to my posts because I covered what you're talking about.

Tennessee? I enjoy plenty of Tom Hanks films, just not familiar with Big.

[ABED]

Where are you from that you've never heard of Big? Tom Hanks is one of the biggest movie stars ever and Big was one of his most significant films. And go back to my posts because I covered what you're talking about.

Tennessee? I enjoy plenty of Tom Hanks films, just not familiar with Big.

How old are you? I have a hard time believing you haven't at least heard of it. It's not an obscure film by any stretch of the imagination. In any event, it's a weird moment with icky implications but it's a good movie.

[Dr. Casey]

I'm 31. I mean, it's possible that I've heard it before and just forgot, but it's not tugging at my memory, no.

[Kokonoe]

Mai is very clear in this regard being that her main strength in Dragon Ball is her calculating and intelligent forms of tactics.

The whole Pilaf gang is incredibly dense. I'd hardly call her calculating or intelligent.

Remember, this is a world where magical wishes are granted, so the rules that govern normal behavior aren't the same. The reason we condemn pedophilia is the issue of power, both physical and mental, an adult has over a child. Mai has none of that. Also, if she's given a child's body. She retains her memories, but if you want to get scientific, her brain would also be that of a child.

Earnest question, does anyone here have this problem when watching the Tom Hanks movie Big? His and Elizabeth Perkins' characters have sex and even after she finds out the truth, she never once acknowledges how icky it is.

I always figured that was what made her a great and humorous character was the fact that she was intelligent and planned out things well but still ended up making dense decisions.

Memories and experience I feel is the issue with this, like it sets a weird precedent. It's easy to say it's an act of fiction and we shouldn't take it so seriously, but at the same time if we blanket that across fiction in general then no one would have anything to truly criticize.

I actually do weigh things within the world as well, but I also weigh them from the perspective from someone who isn't in that world and this is a product being sold and conveying a weird aspect that to me gets too questionable in a way that's uncomfortable. In Dragon Ball's world pedophilia is mostly fine, it's played up for jokes as a gag which I actually feel is a problem. It normalizes it to some degree by making it into a joke, regardless of how animated or unrealistic it all is.

[ABED]

I don't think it sets any sort of precedent, it's just a matter of context. It's a very fantastical world and not something super grounded like The Wire, nor Lolita which is truly fucking disturbing. This is just icky. This in no way normalizes it. It's a joke that's in poor taste perhaps but it doesn't normalize it. For one, you can't wish yourself young.

What are you referring to when you say she plans things out well? It's MAI from Pilaf's gang. Her plans constantly backfired.

I find something like conflating homosexuality with pedophilia to be much more disturbing because that scene with General Blue wasn't dependent on some fantastical element.

[WittyUsername]

Why do you feel the need to add that last sentence? DBZ is most definitely not a different genre than DB. It's still a martial arts fantasy.

At the risk of getting off topic, I can sort of understand where people are coming from when they say that DBZ (as in, the second half of the original manga) is a different genre than OG Dragon Ball. From the Saiyan arc to the Cell arc, the fantasy elements of the series are moved to the side in favor of a more sci-fi approach. The fantasy elements are still there to a degree, but they’re heavily downplayed in favor of aliens and cyborgs.

[ABED]

Why do you feel the need to add that last sentence? DBZ is most definitely not a different genre than DB. It's still a martial arts fantasy.

At the risk of getting off topic, I can sort of understand where people are coming from when they say that DBZ (as in, the second half of the original manga) is a different genre than OG Dragon Ball. From the Saiyan arc to the Cell arc, the fantasy elements of the series are moved to the side in favor of a more sci-fi approach. The fantasy elements are still there to a degree, but they’re heavily downplayed in favor of aliens and cyborgs.

But DB has always had both sci-fi and fantasy elements. There's still martial arts as well. If you did a Venn Diagram of people making this claim and people who don't know ki attacks are martial arts, I'm certain they would heavily overlap.

[MasenkoHA]

Dragon Ball Z is a very much different story, style and genre than Dragon Ball.
.

It’s not though. For one there’s not one loooong story but multiple story arcs. The style isn’t really any different it just developed and refined itself over time. There really isn’t much to distinguish the style and tone of the Piccolo Daimou arc and The Piccolo JR arc from Dragon Ball Z.

And genre. No it’s still martial arts fantasy. The Z portion puts a more sci fi bent (until the Buu saga) but its still a martial arts series.

It’s like you never watched Dragon Ball past the Shenron arc


You’re allowed to have an opinion it’s also, ya know, wrong.



@WittyUsername and then the Buu saga goes right back into fantasy with nary any sci fi elements.


Or we can go back to the Red Ribbon Army arc which also barely has any fantasy elements other than a paramilitary trying to get magic orbs to summon a magic dragon and it honestly wouldn’t feel out of place in a sci fi series.

Dragon Ball and Z plays with Science Fiction but its a martial arts story across the board

[MyVisionity]

I know this is beside the point, but DBZ is still DB. Pilaf still would've fit that world, just like he fit in the Piccolo Daimao arc which is as dark as any DB story got. I wish people would let go of the artificial separation between DB and DBZ.

There's nothing artificial about it, at least in the anime. I think the Piccolo saga is actually pretty silly compared to the later story arcs. I can't really see the Pilaf gang pulling their stunts in DBZ unless it was some kind of filler arc or cameo.

If anything there seems to be more of an artificial reconciliation between the two series.

How was the Piccolo Daimao arc silly? It begins with Kuririn's murder. DBZ has Kaio-sama, a Super Sentai parody, the Great Saiyaman, and Buu, just to name a few things that are very much in line with early DB. Your comment comes from a place of ignorance.

It's silly because Daimao himself is portrayed in such a silly manner, along with a lighter tone overall. Darker and heavier than what came before, maybe, but not so much for after. The characters and elements you mentioned are silly parts within a more serious whole, while in the Piccolo arc the opposite is the case.

[MasenkoHA]

How was Piccolo Daimao portrayed any more silly than Freeza or Buu? There was nothing about him that was portrayed in a explicitly silly manner. The electric rice cooker and Piccolon day was a bit camp and farcical but so is naming your warriors after vegetables and a androgynous alien with a noblewoman’s laugh and a clan of demons named after the magic spell in Disney’s Cinderella and etc etc

The actual tone and stakes of the arc was treated about as serious and dire as anything in Z



Also arcs in Z has high levels of silly in them too

Ginyu Force
Ginyu the Frog
Fat clown and old geezer
Mr. Satan
All of the Buu saga

[NewKakarot]

I'm probably wrong (correct me if so), but I don't really remember Mai being the one who falls for Trunks

From what I can remember, Trunks asked her to be his girlfriend in Battle of Gods. I think she kind of just played along with it (that and the Pilaf Gang just wanted food). I don't think it's supposed to be taken as a serious relationship anyway. If anyone has examples of her showing affection for Trunks, please bring them up.



I'm due for a Dragon Ball Super rewatch soon. It's just not stuck in my mind as much as the original series.