Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Boo?

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Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Boo?

Post by Rebel_Yeh » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:04 pm

If we’re talking about the original Dragon Ball manga, then Freeza, Cell, and Majin Boo aren’t the only major villains. King Piccolo was one too (Vegeta fights on the heroic side for most of the series, so he’s not really counted here). But when most fans talk about classic Dragon Ball’s major villains, they only recognize three: Freeza, Cell, and Majin Boo. Do you think King Piccolo should also be recognized, thus making it four major villains in classic Dragon Ball?

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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:34 pm

Yes, and it's sad that many don't. I'd put him way above Cell and Buu. While I get your point about Vegeta becoming a hero, he's still rightfully seen as one of the main villains of the story.
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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:50 pm

Yes! In some ways he kinds of the first "Z" type villain and his story is still pretty awesome and I agree, I think his arc tops cell and buu. My favorite part is Roshi one off with him.
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Before they announced Freeza coming back, I actually thought it was gonna be him. Imagine if he Re-fused with Piccolo and became the Villian again

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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:57 pm

There's no need for him to refuse with Piccolo, Daimao and Piccolo are one in the same.
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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by OhHiRenan » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:18 pm

Absolutely he should. Piccolo Daimao is a great villain who had way more impact on the series than either Cell or Boo. He basically set the antagonistic template other Dragon Ball villains would build off of and follow.
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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by TenshinFan » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:55 pm

He definitely is among the hardcover fan base like this board. To many he is considered the best villain! Would anyone else throw Pilaf and Baby in the conversation?

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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:19 pm

He's definitely a great villian, probably one of the few to achieve his goals, like getting his youth back and actually ruling the Earth for at least a half a day. His fight with Goku was great and let's face it, Goku punching a hole through his stomach is just iconic. He's definitely in my top 5 villians next to Cell, Ginyu Force, Goku Black, and Baby.
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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by PacificOceanDub » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:40 pm

This has always been one of my biggest woes about the Dragon Ball/DBZ split. I always wished (out of the plethora of Budokai games that game out during the ‘00s) that at least one of them had included Dragon Ball in their story mode, specifically the Piccolo arc.
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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:07 pm

Even though I don't like King Piccolo as a character, as far as antagonists go in Dragon Ball, he's one of the most significant ever created.

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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by KBABZ » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:47 pm

The King is somewhat flat as a character until he's reincarnated/cloned/whatever (guess that comes with being the embodiment of pure evil: no depth!), but he starts off by killing a major character in a kids show and having the first character-specific theme in the music score. And he gets a LOT more done than most other villains, because he overthrows the king of the world, is the only villain to get his wish, AND kills Shenron, AND breaks almost all the limbs of a child. He's very Genre-Savvy, as TV Tropes would say, and it makes him incredibly dangerous.

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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:59 pm

He should, and I personally already do.

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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:00 pm

ABED wrote:There's no need for him to refuse with Piccolo, Daimao and Piccolo are one in the same.
But could he theoretically fuse with the Kami portion? Actually that even bring up if he could be revived at all seeing as Piccolo is him :crazy:

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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:13 pm

He should but the only reason he isn't is because he is not from Z and as we all know DB started with Raditz.
It's annoying that OG DB, despite being the most accurate definition of what franchise was meant to be, is even less popular than GT.
King Piccolo is easily one of the best major villains in series and i personally put him in my top 3 favorite villains with Majin Buu and Baby. He is also way better than Cell to me, i could never understand Cell's big popularity which seems to exist mostly outside of Japan. To me, King Piccolo is just as classic villain as Frieza.
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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by KBABZ » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:19 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:i could never understand Cell's big popularity which seems to exist mostly outside of Japan.
Same. The non-Perfect forms have Cell with a more interesting personality, but once he achieves his goal... I dunno, I just don't see where the threat is. He isn't exactly known for blowing up planets at random and he isn't a tyrant like Frieza is. I always felt that of all the villains, Cell is the one most likely to be talked out of whatever non-plan he has. How he got there is of course morally reprehensible (after all he did kill thousands of people, not just 17 and 18), but once he achieves perfection what he wants to do is... hold a tournament? Okay, where's the threat here again?

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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:33 pm

You really are overthinking this. Cell's threat comes from his power, just like every other villain. If he wins, he kills everyone. What more are you looking for?
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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by Michsi » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:36 pm

I think he already is. That's most likely the case in Japan, at least. He is more popular than Cell over there it seems. I think it's only in places where most started with DBZ that he isn't thought of as one of the major villains.


eledoremassis02 wrote:
ABED wrote:There's no need for him to refuse with Piccolo, Daimao and Piccolo are one in the same.
But could he theoretically fuse with the Kami portion? Actually that even bring up if he could be revived at all seeing as Piccolo is him :crazy:
There is actually a old game out there that has this "what if" scenario. They are seen and treated as separate characters most of the time so it's not outside the realm of possibility. Kami does say before fusing with Piccolo "you and me, or more specifically, your father and me." so if they do make that distinction then you could see him as a final piece for a complete "Piccolo"
Last edited by Michsi on Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:36 pm

KBABZ wrote:
sunsetshimmer wrote:i could never understand Cell's big popularity which seems to exist mostly outside of Japan.
Same. The non-Perfect forms have Cell with a more interesting personality, but once he achieves his goal... I dunno, I just don't see where the threat is. He isn't exactly known for blowing up planets at random and he isn't a tyrant like Frieza is. I always felt that of all the villains, Cell is the one most likely to be talked out of whatever non-plan he has. How he got there is of course morally reprehensible (after all he did kill thousands of people, not just 17 and 18), but once he achieves perfection what he wants to do is... hold a tournament? Okay, where's the threat here again?
I like Cell as a whole, but I certainly feel as though he falls deep into Generic Doomsday Villain territory. On one hand, you could say the decision for him to hold a tournament as a way of displaying his superiority, while also emphasising the innate traits of Saiayn's pride inflating once he/she has achieved his goal and/or achieved a immense amount of power. I mean, Cell does have pure blooded Saiyan DNA in his composition. So it wouldn't surprise me if he pulled a Vegeta, and got drunk with power so much that it clouded his better judgement and just became so full of himself to point where he decided use a tournament as showcase for him to flex his muscles.

On the other hand, you could say that Toriyama realised he hit a narrative dead end with the Cell arc once Cell had achieved his goal and become perfect, and just thrown in a tournament to artificially extend the plot.

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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:53 pm

I don't know if I would consider that artificially extending the plot since the tournament is effectively the third act. He achieved his goal, the only place to go is the final confrontation, which is what the Cell Games were. It all could've been shorter, but it's not a bad idea.
There is actually a old game out there that has this "what if" scenario. They are seen and treated as separate characters most of the time so it's not outside the realm of possibility. Kami does say before fusing with Piccolo "you and me, or more specifically, your father and me." so if they do make that distinction then you could see him as a final piece for a complete "Piccolo"
Piccolo is portrayed as both. It's a holy trinity type situation. Piccolo is simultaneously father AND son.
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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:58 pm

Cell really feels like a random villain appearing out of nowhere and well, he is.
#19 and Gero were meant to be main villains, then it was changed to #16, #17 and #18. Then, out of nowhere, Cell was introduced. I don't know, maybe if Cell was in plans much earlier then he would be more complex character. But since he was introduced quickly by Toriyama, he basically shows up randomly to absorb androids and announce a tournament. It's also why i can't imagine him being brought back to series because i can't think of anything new that could be done with him. He was also a threat exclusive to Earth and at that point of series, when previous villain was galactic tyrant, it was weird. And King Piccolo was at least known before by Roshi and even though he died, his story continues with Piccolo junior being a villain at first, then turning good and merging with Kami.
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Re: Should King Piccolo be recognized as one of classic Dragon Ball’s main villains alongside Freeza, Cell, and Majin Bo

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:09 pm

Forget for a second you know the backstory of how Toriyama came up with Cell, how does the arc not feel like it's leading towards something bigger than 19 and 20? Cell doesn't come out of nowhere. He feels planned. From the outset of the arc, things are constantly different than what Trunks knew. I'm absolutely convinced that the only people who think otherwise know the backstory. If 19 and 20 were the big bads, that would've been a VERY short arc.

Cell was exclusive to Earth in the arc, but it's abundantly clear that if he wasn't stopped then and there, he would go to other worlds.

I can't believe I'm having to defend Cell as he is far from my favorite, but it's for almost none of the reasons you guys have mentioned.
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