Vic Mignogna

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:09 am

Psychological trauma is difficult to truly explain. When I was a teenager I shut off my emotions and pretended to be who people wanted me to be because the prospect of facing how I felt on the inside and expressing it in my living environment scared the shit out of me. It was painful for me to be open enough to allow myself to feel anything because worse than jamming my finger in a door or being hurt physically some other way I was afraid of my heart being hurt simply because of who I was as a person. Imagine being the victims of these two abusers-of-their-stature: who is going to believe you, especially when they threaten you or they have an army of loyal followers duped into believing that they're honest heroes? The mind is easier to hurt than the body--worse yet, it's easier for the mind to be broken beyond repair. It took me fifteen years to begin to try to put the pieces back together, some people need a lifetime if they ever can. Trauma is a self-repeating cycle that can replenish itself like a renewable energy source. That Pridemore and the others managed to take such a leap is truly indicative of their strength and we should be welcoming of them with open arms.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:17 am

DSB wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:We're not here to pay the bills out of our own pocket each month to be a sexual assault denier community. You're allowed to be all "holy shit" at this. You're totally allowed to be disappointed in Vic. You're totally allowed to feel confused and angry. You're allowed to feel conflicted. You're allowed to be angry. You're allowed to ask questions. That's expected and normal. We can chat that stuff out.

You want to show a blank, callous, total lack of empathy in any way? Go do it elsewhere, and continue telling your friends that Kanzenshuu wasn't the place for you.
So essentially:

"I pay for this site and this community is mine. So either do as i say or leave."

Did i get it right?
Er, yes. That's what Terms of Use are about, and you agreed to them when making your account here. VegettoEX is well within his rights as the owner of the site to dictate this sort of stuff whether we like it or not. Right there on the Terms of Use page it says
You agree that “Kanzenshuu” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit.
If you disagree with how VegettoEX runs the community, it is within your rights to move to a community where your opinions and worldview are more welcome. The "character" of a site is ultimately decided on what the owners are lenient about regarding things they might dislike and/or disagree with. For example, VegettoEX is within his rights as the site owner to, say, remove any topic that isn't talking directly about the Japanese side of Dragon Ball, since Kanzenshuu is here to inform about only that. But he doesn't.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by ABED » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:25 am

It's not merely terms of use, it's common sense. It's his site, he sets the rules, just like his home.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:38 am

ABED wrote:
KBABZ wrote:
DSB wrote:So essentially:

"I pay for this site and this community is mine. So either do as i say or leave."

Did i get it right?
Er, yes. That's what Terms of Use are about, and you agreed to them when making your account here. VegettoEX is well within his rights as the owner of the site to dictate this sort of stuff whether we like it or not. Right there on the Terms of Use page it says
You agree that “Kanzenshuu” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit.
If you disagree with how VegettoEX runs the community, it is within your rights to move to a community where your opinions and worldview are more welcome. The "character" of a site is ultimately decided on what the owners are lenient about regarding things they might dislike and/or disagree with. For example, VegettoEX is within his rights as the site owner to, say, remove any topic that isn't talking directly about the Japanese side of Dragon Ball, since Kanzenshuu is here to inform about only that. But he doesn't.
It's not merely terms of use, it's common sense. It's his site, he sets the rules, just like his home.
Quite.

Freedom of speech means you can say whatever you wish to say, but that doesn't mean anyone actually wants to listen to what you have to say, and in such cases, someone is entirely within their rights to ask you to shut it or get out of their house.
A somewhat self-indulgent thesis on my current outlook on Dragon Ball fandom, which I feel should be below every post I make from now on:

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by SaintEvolution » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:44 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
SaintEvolution wrote:
Kataphrut wrote:I don't understand how anyone could say there's room for doubt over the Pridemore/Haberkorn story, that's about as cut and dry as it gets in my opinion. She shared an account of sexual assault (a horrifying story she was brave as hell to come out about I might add), didn't name or ask the perpetrator to be named, and then once people started confirming it, Haberkorn jumped on it by providing a lengthy, detailed version of his own story. It should be obvious from that behaviour alone that he was panicked and trying to run damage control. The only real difference in the stories is that he alleged it was consensual, she alleged it wasn't. At that point it's he said-she said but with a huge dosage of Occam's Razor- ie why would she reveal this deeply personal information if it wasn't true, and why would he respond the way he did if he wasn't aware on some level that he was guilty?

Anyway, you also have a third person who was there weighed in, Adam Sheehan, who confirmed that he was there, he saw she was being given too much to drink, she couldn't consent and nobody stopped her leaving with Haberkorn. So now you have a third-party eye-witness testimony. That's about as close to hard evidence as you're gonna fucking get in these situations short of catching it happen on film. Which, incidentally is always what the bad actors who say "lol where's the evidence" are demanding because they know it's infeasible to expect that sort of evidence to exist for every situation.

You can apply that to any situation in which a person makes a public accusation of sexual harassment/assault against a powerful figure. It's airing personal, often shameful details in public and they nearly always end up a target as a result, so they have nothing to gain by lying. That's why it's so important to believe women, and to believe victims. Refusing to do so enables a toxic culture of silence, and it doesn't make you more "logical". It makes you naive at best.
Raping accusations can ruin entire careers on nowdays, even if they are true or not. It's perfectly natural to be on panic when someone accuses you of something like that.
Not saying he is inocent, because he being guilty is still a possibility too, but we cannot say with what we have until now with conviction that he is guilty.

Seriously, this is not Twitter. Victim's word is not the final word, the justice to be done needs more than just words, it needs real proofs. We should be more skeptical in situations like this one.
coola wrote:
Personally, i blame some youtubers and radical leftists, they kept falsely accusing people for racist comments or sexual assaults so much, it become "Boy, who cried wolf". Rape, sexual assault and discrimination for skin color or race is terrible thing, and when they use this argument just because they dont like someone or want to gain attention, they are terrible human beings.
Great commentary. That's the real reason.

Yes. All these people coming forward are just lying I’m sure. Did you even read the article?
I'm not saying they are lying, I'm saying that people are already buying the truths they want to believe without thinking properly about it.
We had the #meToo moviment before that had a lot of people on it, and at the end, many of them were lying. Things like that are not impossible to happen.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:37 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote:What I'm wondering is where the Schemmel accusers are.
Have you heard anything? I only came across that one post and had tried to look for more but it dried up fast with the usual negative Shemmel stuff we all know. There is a list known accusers at cons and very few VA's are on there. Todd Haberkorn, however, is (providing alcohol to someone under 21, inappropriate comments about body, invited attendees to sleep in hotel room) https://colossal-guest-2011.tumblr.com/ and that story is similar to Jessie's story (which for me adds more to her story as it seems he has a method)

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kunzait_83 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:43 pm

Doctor. wrote:I said the circumstances surrounding our discussion were petty nonsense, not sexual assault as a concept. As for my apathy, be it a serious issue or not, you should have the self-awareness to realize that discussing an issue on an online Dragon Ball forum won't make much difference. That's why I struggle to get invested anymore and can't understand the sheer amount of hatred, rage and disdain shared by both sides of the political spectrum when it comes to political discussions; the fate of the world doesn't hang in the balance, relax. An ignorant kid being ignorant online won't have real-world repercussions, and even if it did, you're not responsible for him.
Sadly, this is where you're gravely mistaken. In case you haven't been paying attention to the news or current events for the past several years now, ignorant kids being ignorant online HAS in fact lead to all manner of real world harm and repercussions. The past 5+ years of online discourse in particular has lead to all manner of in many cases cult-ish thinking and beliefs being spread about various political issues (often by and amongst ignorant kids online), many of which have resulted in countless lives ruined and in many instances even people getting actually flat out murdered or killed over it.

Obviously I don't take you for such an extreme example of this, not remotely: but nonetheless, if the last several years should've taught people ANYTHING, its that unfortunately, the shit we say on the internet actually DOES matter a lot and actually DOES do real harm to people.

In the case of this particular discussion: the harm that's done by discussions like this is that they help spread and "normalize" a certain way of thinking about sexual assault and sexual assault victims. Ignorant kids thinking the wrongheaded, stupid shit that they think about topics like this helps contribute to an overall broader culture of mistrust, doubt, paranoia, and bad faith that makes the conditions for assault victims coming forward that much more senselessly difficult and immensely painful for them to do so.

And the only way that ANY amount of deeply ingrained cultural change on this shit is going to take place is if EVERYONE, on an individual level, does whatever little bit that they can in their lives to fight back against it. And yeah, sometimes that might include telling an ignorant jackass online that they're being an ignorant jackass instead of staying quiet and letting them spew their bullshit unchecked.
Doctor. wrote:If you want to change the world, get into politics or activism,
Who says I haven't? :o :o :shock: :shock:
Doctor. wrote: or else just treat people as people with political opinions and don't assume they automatically want the worst for other people's lives because they don't agree with your position.
Contrary to what you might think, I AM treating you as a person here: I'm treating you like I would treat ANY stupid kid who's speaking WAY out of their depth on something that they don't know shit from shinola about, particularly when its within a current social climate where stupid kids speaking way outside of their depth on topics that are FAR above their intellectual paygrade has been actually getting actual flesh and blood people killed (or otherwise helping to ruin their lives in various other horrible ways).

When ANY person, be it online or even in real life face to face, spouts off hurtful nonsense that has been contributing to making people's lives a senseless hell in ways that the person doing the ignorant spouting doesn't even begin to understand at, then yes I'm going to call that person out on it and tell them in no uncertain terms - even face to face - that they're being a fucking idiot. That's not me dehumanizing them: that's me simply telling them as my fellow man to "quit being a fucking idiot".
Doctor. wrote:I wasn't offended, just baffled someone could get this heated.
Pay more attention to recent evens sometime to have a better understanding.
Doctor. wrote:But have I ever been subjected to women, older and younger, who get all too comfortable and close as soon as they meet you? Yes, some of my male friends too. My best friend has a girlfriend he loves dearly, yet a girl in one of his classes keeps hugging him, holding his arm and putting her head on his shoulder against his will, but he takes it as nothing more than a minor nuisance. I've given, and received, unsolicited kisses on the cheek and hugs to female friends. Now, I realize the difference; there's no dynamic of power in the first example as there is with Vic and his fans, and the second example is an entirely different level of intimacy at play. But I'm not providing these examples to say "these women need to grow thicker skin" as you're implying; everyone deals with flirting, or a show of platonic affection, or what have you, differently, and if these women felt uncomfortable, then I understand. I've also felt uncomfortable when some women have hit on me. But this is also to say that sometimes there's no maliciousness, if you can put yourself on the other person's shoes and understand where they're coming from, an urge or want to get close to someone else doesn't necessarily mean they want that person to be uncomfortable, even if it can lead to that as a side-effect. Owing to the age difference between Vic and his fans, I admit I was too callous in saying he deserved nothing more than a slap on the wrist, but ostracizing him as a borderline rapist is crossing the line when these interactions should, in theory, leave no long-lasting emotional trauma; even some of my progressive female friends recall experiences with touchy and creepy men as nothing more than an awkward nuisance, perhaps terrifying in the moment, but not enough to seriously affect their psyche from that moment onward.
THIS is an overall MUCH better and vastly more thoughtful comment, and I'd be more than happy to continue a more fruitful discussion about this in the PMs sometime if you ever feel up to it.
SaintEvolution wrote:We had the #meToo moviment before that had a lot of people on it, and at the end, many of them were lying.
Except that's not even vaguely close to true. At all. A VERY tiny small percentage of those of the major #MeToo cases were false (off the top of my head, only like three so, but I wouldn't doubt if there were at least a few more besides), but overall a VAST overwhelming majority of them were either flat out true, or very likely to be true.

While some people do indeed lie about having been assaulted, that's in no way whatsoever any kind of a normal, common, or widespread occurrence. Most people when they admit to having been assaulted end up getting (very needlessly) put through IMMENSE amounts of social shame, hell, and misery in their personal lives, often times from sheer disbelief that they've been assaulted at all: disbelief on both the public's end as well as also even from their family and friends. Most people usually get absolutely NOTHING out of lying about this, and instead tend to have their lives even further ruined: largely because of the social stigma many people (knowingly or unknowingly) put on people who come forward with these kinds of claims.

Yes, that still doesn't stop SOME people occasionally from reporting falsely and lying about having been assaulted, and that includes during #MeToo, absolutely: and anyone who DOES deliberately report falsely on having been sexual assaulted is certainly a beyond despicable person for doing so: not just for damaging the life of the person they're accusing, but also for damaging the credibility of REAL victims in particular, as it helps contribute to that (overall largely unfounded) paranoia and culture of mistrust over people just willy nilly lying about this.

But overall, the assumption or belief that MOST of these #MeToo cases have been false is EXACTLY the type of knee-jerk denial that has helped create the ridiculously hellish conditions that makes coming forward about having been assaulted so pointlessly hostile and dangerous to victims.

Again, you'd be AMAZED at how exceedingly little most victims have to gain from coming forward with such accusations and indeed what kind of senseless shame and mistrust and doubt they're often put through instead, even by their closest loved ones. Not a single high profile victim has gotten rich off of #MeToo, and the type of "fame" or "attention" most have gotten over it is of a sort that most of them (and most people in general) would rather wish to have NEVER had at all.
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:50 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:A VERY tiny small percentage of those of the major #MeToo cases were false
I would further add to this that not only were the number of false cases minuscule, but it became apparent very quickly that those accusations held no water, and they all disappeared very quickly.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by gokaiblue » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:54 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:A VERY tiny small percentage of those of the major #MeToo cases were false
I would further add to this that not only were the number of false cases minuscule, but it became apparent very quickly that those accusations held no water, and they all disappeared very quickly.
Sadly, however, it's most likely because of this small amount that some people (including myself at times) have a slight air of skepticism when dealing with these accusations.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Marlowe89 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:12 pm

After reading more allegations and testimonies about Haberkorn, I've quickly changed my stance on him.

I wonder how many actors associated with Funimation are doing sleazy shit like this. How deep does it go?

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Tian » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:38 pm

Marlowe89 wrote: I wonder how many actors associated with Funimation are doing sleazy shit like this. How deep does it go?
Does the name Scott Freeman ring a bell to you? In case, it doesn't... He was fired and banned of FUNimation for a crime arguably worse than the ones Vic, Haberkorn and Kirbopher commited... He possessed child pornography. He's currently serving his sentence at jail and Justin Cook has said his career is over for good.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:54 pm

Alright, I think I’m done with Dragon Ball for the time being. I don’t want to keep supporting a series that’s connected to a company with this much baggage behind it.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Tian » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:59 pm

WittyUsername wrote:Alright, I think I’m done with Dragon Ball for the time being. I don’t want to keep supporting a series that’s connected to a company with this much baggage behind it.
I understand you, man. It's really disappointing when you find out that both the company and some of its voice actors aren't what you expected them to be...
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by gokaiblue » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:02 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:After reading more allegations and testimonies about Haberkorn, I've quickly changed my stance on him.

I wonder how many actors associated with Funimation are doing sleazy shit like this. How deep does it go?
It extends far deeper than just Funimation. There are many entertainment types who do sleazy stuff.
Last edited by gokaiblue on Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Looking for these rare items/information:

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Marlowe89 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:06 pm

gokaiblue wrote: It extends far deeper thsn just Funimation. There are many entertainment types who do sleazy stuff.
I'm aware of that, and I know it's more common than people think -- especially among those in powerful positions with a large following. I was curious about Funimation specifically.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by SaintEvolution » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:26 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
SaintEvolution wrote:We had the #meToo moviment before that had a lot of people on it, and at the end, many of them were lying.
Except that's not even vaguely close to true. At all. A VERY tiny small percentage of those of the major #MeToo cases were false (off the top of my head, only like three so, but I wouldn't doubt if there were at least a few more besides), but overall a VAST overwhelming majority of them were either flat out true, or very likely to be true.

While some people do indeed lie about having been assaulted, that's in no way whatsoever any kind of a normal, common, or widespread occurrence. Most people when they admit to having been assaulted end up getting (very needlessly) put through IMMENSE amounts of social shame, hell, and misery in their personal lives, often times from sheer disbelief that they've been assaulted at all: disbelief on both the public's end as well as also even from their family and friends. Most people usually get absolutely NOTHING out of lying about this, and instead tend to have their lives even further ruined: largely because of the social stigma many people (knowingly or unknowingly) put on people who come forward with these kinds of claims.

Yes, that still doesn't stop SOME people occasionally from reporting falsely and lying about having been assaulted, and that includes during #MeToo, absolutely: and anyone who DOES deliberately report falsely on having been sexual assaulted is certainly a beyond despicable person for doing so: not just for damaging the life of the person they're accusing, but also for damaging the credibility of REAL victims in particular, as it helps contribute to that (overall largely unfounded) paranoia and culture of mistrust over people just willy nilly lying about this.

But overall, the assumption or belief that MOST of these #MeToo cases have been false is EXACTLY the type of knee-jerk denial that has helped create the ridiculously hellish conditions that makes coming forward about having been assaulted so pointlessly hostile and dangerous to victims.

Again, you'd be AMAZED at how exceedingly little most victims have to gain from coming forward with such accusations and indeed what kind of senseless shame and mistrust and doubt they're often put through instead, even by their closest loved ones. Not a single high profile victim has gotten rich off of #MeToo, and the type of "fame" or "attention" most have gotten over it is of a sort that most of them (and most people in general) would rather wish to have NEVER had at all.
I'm sorry, but what is your source of that information? I'm referring to the point you made of only 3 cases being false and the entire rest being true. Because I googled that a few minutes ago, and I didn't found this information.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Analytical Delusion » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:41 pm

SaintEvolution wrote:Raping accusations can ruin entire careers on nowdays, even if they are true or not. It's perfectly natural to be on panic when someone accuses you of something like that.
Not saying he is inocent, because he being guilty is still a possibility too, but we cannot say with what we have until now with conviction that he is guilty.

Seriously, this is not Twitter. Victim's word is not the final word, the justice to be done needs more than just words, it needs real proofs. We should be more skeptical in situations like this one.
I strongly agree with this post. Rush to judgment is incredibly dangerous, and the implications of a false accusation can ruin an innocent individual's life as much as anything else. Which is why it's prudent that claims are investigated by individuals who are not at all invested in the outcome, and that said investigations are thorough and complete (including background/character research on the accusers). An issue (or cynics might call it a feature) with the #MeToo movement is that it puts people on trial in the public eye, and there is no way to recover one's reputation once allegations (even not fully corroborated) are aired.

[With regards to Mignogna specifically, just from skimming the link, there were photos, so maybe there is some strong evidence. Still, caution is of utmost importance.]

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kunzait_83 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:47 pm

SaintEvolution wrote:I'm sorry, but what is your source of that information? I'm referring to the point you made of only 3 cases being false and the entire rest being true. Because I googled that a few minutes ago, and I didn't found this information.
Dude... the #MeToo movement was a VAST and YEARS long phenomenon that's spanned a LOT of different cases (at least hundreds by now). There's no singular handy "catch-all" resource that conveniently aggregates the sum total of all of it into a bite-sized form that you can easily digest in one quick read. This shit isn't an Oricon chart. This isn't a math problem. This is a MASSIVE (and LONG the fuck overdue) social movement focusing on a VERY complex problem that's been deeply rooted in society for GENERATIONS now.

Some people, like myself, have just been VERY closely following it for the past several years that its been a thing now (not to mention have just been generally acutely aware of most of the stories and rumors surrounding many of the accused public figures since DECADES ago now), and have looked at it case by case by case as its unfolded throughout. Can I say with 100% certainty that I've made myself intimately familiar with EVERY single, solitary case? Of course not: but I HAVE certainly familiarized myself greatly with a VAST majority of the major cases.

Like Robo said earlier: a VERY microscopically small minority of them turned out to be false, and as soon as they did, like IMMEDIATELY when it came to light that they were bullshit, they then VERY quickly evaporated and were totally dismissed and forgotten by the public for the nonsense that they were. Not one of those falsely accused public figures (Aziz Ansari and Stan Lee prior to his death are two that immediately spring to mind) had the charges stick to them or "permanently ruin their reputation". And like I also said: I myself was only able to think of a VERY small few of those cases off the top of my head, and I wouldn't doubt that there might be a couple more somewhere out there I might've missed.

But by and large, the overwhelming VAST majority of #MeToo cases have generally proven, time after time after time after time, to be either flat out 100% true, or at a bare minimum HIGHLY overwhelmingly credible. If you sincerely and seriously want more reading on this (like WAY more), send me a PM sometime, and I'll see if I can cobble together a fuckload of links and material for you to pour over whenever you have some time to kill.

Its a LOT to sift through though, but if you're genuinely serious about understanding why #MeToo is a big deal and why its indeed a very genuine, important, and overall GREATLY positive movement, you should do your due diligence to familiarize yourself with the details of most of these cases before spouting off utter nonsense about them on a public forum.
Analytical Delusion wrote:
SaintEvolution wrote:Raping accusations can ruin entire careers on nowdays, even if they are true or not. It's perfectly natural to be on panic when someone accuses you of something like that.
Not saying he is inocent, because he being guilty is still a possibility too, but we cannot say with what we have until now with conviction that he is guilty.

Seriously, this is not Twitter. Victim's word is not the final word, the justice to be done needs more than just words, it needs real proofs. We should be more skeptical in situations like this one.
I strongly agree with this post. Rush to judgment is incredibly dangerous, and the implications of a false accusation can ruin an innocent individual's life as much as anything else. Which is why it's prudent that claims are investigated by individuals who are not at all invested in the outcome, and that said investigations are thorough and complete (including background/character research on the accusers). An issue (or cynics might call it a feature) with the #MeToo movement is that it puts people on trial in the public eye, and there is no way to recover one's reputation once allegations (even not fully corroborated) are aired.

[With regards to Mignogna specifically, just from skimming the link, there were photos, so maybe there is some strong evidence. Still, caution is of utmost importance.]
First of all, a successful actor or producer or businessman or what have you having their career tarnished is in NO way even VAGUELY on the same level of consequences as the life-upending psychological and emotional trauma that sexual assault victims have to undergo (sometimes for years and years, sometimes for the rest of their lives). Equating that kind of trauma and pain with "but think of this celebrity's bank account!" is a laughably absurd and moronic false equivalence and COLOSSAL lack of ethical prioritizing and perspective. If the charges ARE indeed false, then rest assured in most cases the accused person's reputation will generally recover, particularly if they're an already famous and well regarded celebrity of some sort.

(And before someone busts out the ever-popular go-to "What about Michael Jackson?" chestnut: there's still to this day a LOT of conflicting evidence on him pointing EITHER WAY. That's SUCH a unique and one-of-a-kind lightning-in-a-bottle clusterfuck of a trainwreck scenario that none of us in the general public will likely EVER truly know for 100% certainty exactly what was what with him - though there's more than PLENTY of evidence there that's certainly NOT even remotely favorable towards him - and there's a LOT of blame to go around for that on a vast number of different parties. Rest assured though, cases like MJ's are FAR from the norm in these kinds of matters.)

And secondly, whole social stigma of "a false accusation will ruin this good man's life and reputation forever!", while not without SOME few instances of having truly and tragically happened to some people before, has by and large more often than not been historically and culturally used as a cudgel to bully and intimidate sexual assault victims (not solely, but most overwhelmingly women in particular) into silence. Part of what's lead #MeToo to becoming a thing has been a LONG built-up and LONG oncoming reckoning where victims who have had this line of thinking used to cow them into silence for years/decades have finally had enough of it, and are taking TREMENDOUS risks to their own lives and their own reputations to put an end to it once and for all.

Yes, I absolutely and unreservedly agree wholeheartedly that people shouldn't bumrush to final judgements without a good amount of evidence and facts to go off of first. Yes, I fully believe in due process and "innocent until proven guilty" when it comes to formal criminal charges. All of that is 100% salient and sound.

HOWEVER, that being said: what often happens, particularly with celebrity cases (and as thoroughly minor of a celebrity as Mignogna is, this point still certainly applies to him) is that the fans of the accused end up circling the wagons around them and forming almost a sort of blindly-loyal personality cult around him (or her), and use such seemingly on the surface reasonable-sounding arguments as "lets wait till we have all the facts" and "think of how this will ruin their reputation" a means of defending their idol against ANY and ALL tangible evidence that they are in fact guilty, no matter how damning it is.

In a GREAT many of these #MeToo cases though, corroborating evidence in favor of the victims/accusers often DOES end up coming to light sooner or later on down the road that ends up more often than not vindicating the accusers as having NOT been lying about this the whole time (as again, you'd be AMAZED at how EXCEEDINGLY little most accusers have to gain by lying about this): and yet time after time, many accused celebrities will still have legions of loyal fans and defenders who will spring atop the evidence immediately and nitpick it apart desperately looking for SOME hole or wiggle room to discredit it.

Because what often happens is, some people who are fans of a particular public figure (even an absurdly minor one like an anime dub voice actor) end up latching onto them in an unhealthy emotional/psychological manner and unconsciously tie-up their own sense of self-worth into the public perception of this person who is ultimately, at the end of the day, a total and utter stranger to them. And in the process they cast needless and senseless doubt and smear the word of people who have already suffered TREMENDOUS hell (both enduring the abuse, as well as wrestling with its aftermath in private, and eventually coming forward with it publicly).

All of this has the net result, unfortunately, of contributing to a MUCH larger and more damaging problem for sexual assault victims: that being the culture of doubt, mistrust, and paranoia that is instilled and internalized in them. They are in fact somehow probably lying about this - either to get rich (which they almost NEVER do) or to get fame and attention (which in cases like this are generally of a certain type of notoriety that most people on average overall would VERY much rather NOT have to deal with) - and thus they shouldn't even bother to come forward as they won't be believed either way.

And that problem, I can safely say, is one that is FAR more deeply serious and FAR more damaging and critical to deal with on behalf of sexual assault victims everywhere than some celebrity potentially having their acting career (or what have you) ruined.
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Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:08 pm

I always knew there was something fishy about Mignogna, but I'd never expect Haberkorn.

I just hope Sabat and none of the other men in the cast have done something like this.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:16 pm

Pridemore waiting so long to come out about this reminds me a lot of the circumstances I and so many other Americans face. Pridemore's livelihood depends on her work. If she got blackballed because of Taberkorn or any other abuser's influence it would literally prevent her from find work. In the United States if you don't have a job you basically cannot have health insurance. It's life-threatening enough to not even be able to eat but to have one's health on the line is exactly why millions of Americans stay at jobs that they absolutely detest. You have to stay at the job or position you are in to maintain the healthcare insurance you need to pay for the medical problems you have largely from working a job you hate for poverty wages.

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