Vic Mignogna

[Kunzait_83]

So we should do away with due process and just go with whatever feels right?

No. No one, literally NO ONE in here said that.

This has NOTHING to do with legality or judicial due process: in a court of criminal law, yes, it is ALWAYS "innocent until proven guilty". Unquestionably.

This ISN'T about criminal justice law though or court procedure: this is about how seriously the general public, as a collective, cultural whole, takes sexual assault claims. This is about changing NOT OUR LAWS, and NOT OUR COURT SYSTEM, but about changing SOCIETAL NORMS and culturally-ingrained assumptions and biases with regards to sexual assault claims.

Again, for the cheap seats: NO ONE IS SAYING EVEN REMOTELY TO HAVE ANY OF THIS SHIT AFFECT CRIMINAL JUSTICE LAWS OR JUDICIAL DUE PROCESS. Nor to abolish "innocent until proven guilty" precedent within a LEGAL SETTING.

People are talking about creating a social paradigm that isn't innately hostile and combative towards sexual assault victims, to a point where they feel they have to "hide" what happened to them for years, decades at a time until the emotional weight of it makes them crack.

These are two VERY separate and distinct issues. If you are unable to understand that at this point, you are intentionally not listening and you do not WANT to understand what people are saying to you.

Luckily Kunzait explained (much better than I could articulate) why victims have very strong motivation not to speak up about it.

Its been explained not just by me, but by several dozen other users here. In gross detail and with hard, tangible, real-world data to back it up.

And yet we're still going around in circles with this, because clearly, there is a sizable contingent of people who actually DON'T want to read rebuttals or explanations, who DON'T want to educate themselves and learn and see why they're not only wrong, but are (unintentionally and culturally) contributing to making it so difficult for sexual assault victims to come forward in the first place.

At best, what they want to do is to simply spew their ignorant-ass, shitheaded "opinions" out into the ether, completely unchallenged, and get a pat on the head, a cookie, and a participation trophy.

At worst... that's a WAY more lengthy and deeply fucked up can of worms in and of itself to open up, so I'll abstain for now from going there.

In either case though, its insufferable and nauseating when these people react with such pearl-clutching dismay and incensed outrage that anyone would DARE to not only disagree with their asinine, uneducated nonsense, but actually call them (rightly and accurately mind you) "dumb", "ignorant", and "contributing to, rather than helping, the problem".

We can have a cultural paradigm where swathes of the public inherently hedges their trust more with sexual predators, cowing/shaming victims into silence and allowing said-predators enough leeway to go on victimizing more people (men and women) for decades at a time... but GOD FORBID someone gets their precious feelings hurt because they're too lazy to take ten minutes to actually READ something first before they spew verbal diarrhea on the matter.

In their minds "My personal pride and ego getting mildly wounded by someone on the internet calling out my bullshit is WAY more important to me and matters WAY more than the pain and horror of what sexual assault victims go through daily."

And yet I'M the one who is "in a constant state of butthurt".

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"

- Isaac Asimov

[Bruma rabu]

Who says it's only being addressed now? People have been saying this about this guy for years:
https://hetalia-wank.livejournal.com/31 ... 71#t115571
http://vicmeggnognahorrorstories.tumblr.com/
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/20 ... s/67872530
(All of this links were already posted in this thread)

Thankfully it was noticed this time, which gave other people the courage to come out with their stories. The reason why this thing always come out years after it happens is because idiots like you call the victims liars and harass them because they can't believe the random actor they are attached to could be a shitty person.

Nice, yeah point at the part of my comment where I called the victims liars and then I proceeded to to harass them. Could you also highlight the part where I defended the guy I'm all so attached too. Would you be so kind.

The "like you" part (which I actually deleted later because I thought it was a bit too aggresive, seems you catched it before that) was about calling them liars which you totally did here:

Part of me thinks this was just some way for news sites to get clicks. They decide to drop these claims on the movies opening week and use "Dragon Ball" in their headlines. Bullshit. In today's political climate and hype surrounding DragonBall, talk about the perfect storm.

The harassing thing has being going on on social media (and always happens when sexual harrasment victims tell their stories) was not about you, I worded it bad (and, again, actually deleted it a couple of minutes after posting)

Hey, not sure what grade level readin you got but it's pretty obvious that "they" ment news sites. I never mention anything about victims.

[MasenkoHA]

.

I give zero F's about Vic and plenty of seemingly upstanding assholes have abused their power of their fans for this type of twisted crap all the time so it's vertually impossible not to believe, but the point still stands you have got to prove it. Because people do lie, people have lied and inccosent people have suffered for it. To look at the flip side, there are people who are 100% innocent of such charges have had their lives ruined because people believed "they got away with it".

As reality is want to be, it's all grey and nasty with a lot of good people getting the short end of the stick. But the second you start favioring one side over the other, the chances of a justice for the one who diserves it drops. So I stand by what I said, treat the situation with unbiased respect and find the truth.

Oh for the love of.


God damn the irony of the “facts over feeling” crowd on this thread. Lets try to explain the facts to you and the other (again) in simple terms.


-Vic’s reported completely inappropriate behavior didn’t just “suddenly come out of nowhere conveniently when Super Broly came out” it’s been talked about on the net for years. Since at least 2010 from what I can found. Others have mentioned since 2004. The point remains the same this didn’t come from nowhere just because you want to be ignorant about it

-False accusations happen, yes (far less than you would like to think) and if one or two fans came forward saying Vic assault them...well they shouldn’t be assumed to be liars but skeptism or a neutral take on their accusations would be understandable. But this is MULTIPLE people and this has been talked about for YEARS but yes maaaybe there’s just some grand conspiracy to get poor Vicky which brings me to

-As Kunzait pointed out (although he shouldn’t have to because it should be fucking obvious) Vic Mignogna is a Z-list celebrity. If people wanted to make false accusations for 15 seconds of attention they could have picked a much bigger name. There is nothing to be gained to make false accusations at Mignogna.

[Marlowe89]

>countless stories come out, many of them straight from industry veterans
>"GUYS WE HAVE TO BE UNBIASED, THINK ABOUT THIS VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF FALSE ALLEGATIONS, WE SHOULDN'T TAKE SIDES YET"



There's no excuse for these excuses you people are making. You've been provided with a variety of resources multiple times. It doesn't take anything more than a click and quick read to educate yourselves on this subject. You've been told - again, multiple times - that the conversation we're trying to have right now has nothing to do with the judicial process; and for that matter, neither does Funimation's very own employment decisions.

At this point, I have to wonder if some of you are deliberately being obtuse about this.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Its been explained not just by me, but by several dozen other users here. In gross detail and with hard, tangible, real-world data to back it up.

And yet we're still going around in circles with this, because clearly, there is a sizable contingent of people who actually DON'T want to read rebuttals or explanations, who DON'T want to educate themselves and learn and see why they're not only wrong, but are (unintentionally and culturally) contributing to making it so difficult for sexual assault victims to come forward in the first place.

You can't seriously expect everyone to read all 30+ pages of the thread before posting in it.

[JulieYBM]

Playing Devil's Advocate against a bunch of fucking evidence and even the legal opinions of law professionals in this thread is an exercise in foolishness. It is literally painting you to be unworthy of inclusion in fandom spaces. This is not polite behavior at all.

[Shineman]

Jesus Christ, why are people so aggressive to use the step-ladder to reach the moon to defend the indefensible?

It reminds me of case a few days ago where people are breaking their backs trying to reach in defending Liam Nesson, after he revealed he scorched the streets looking for a random black guy to kill like Rambo crusader—and these people are applauding his statement as “brave”, as if we should be patting him on the back for saying it and that it wasn’t “racist” and we all “been there”.

I can’t tell that people just CANNOT believe that the guy they look up too is a creep and felt that if they like him, they, by association, are a creep, or been browsing too many 4chan pol threads and “sjw pwned videos compilation” all night long. Considering that I just seen people used these lovely terms such as "snowflakes", "sensitive" and “those dang liberals” popping up in this thread, perhaps I’m not that far off the mark?

Of course, these are broad generalizations and hyperbolic, but damn, at no point, at any scenario, should a grown ass man be kissing and hugging minors or anyone without their permission. Some users in this thread are not just powerfully stupid as one member describes—this goes beyond stupidity, it’s absolute insanity at this point.

I'm disappointed that Funimation is taking action after this story got a lot of traction over social media to do something about Vic McNugget.

[MasenkoHA]

You can't seriously expect everyone to read all 30+ pages of the thread before posting in it.

Talk about missing the forest for trees

[JulieYBM]

Its been explained not just by me, but by several dozen other users here. In gross detail and with hard, tangible, real-world data to back it up.

And yet we're still going around in circles with this, because clearly, there is a sizable contingent of people who actually DON'T want to read rebuttals or explanations, who DON'T want to educate themselves and learn and see why they're not only wrong, but are (unintentionally and culturally) contributing to making it so difficult for sexual assault victims to come forward in the first place.

You can't seriously expect everyone to read all 30+ pages of the thread before posting in it.

You can't expect people to educate themselves or submit themselves for education to the thread before publishing their own view on the subject?

[emi_b7]

Hey, not sure what grade level readin you got but it's pretty obvious that "they" ment news sites. I never mention anything about victims.

The articles report stuff from testimonies on social media this past month. You said "the news sites drop these claims on the movies opening week and use "Dragon Ball" in their headlines" but the news sites don't pull this thing out of their asses, they report what the fanbase is talking about. You can't say "the news sites are shady" when they are just reporting what other people say and then pretend you are not douting those people. It's not that hard. You are questioning the legitimacy of what they are saying.

[PFM18]

You are both objectively wrong, as well as living in a fantasy delusion culled largely from mainstream network news media propaganda that is 100% disconnected and disassociated from the reality both how our system of government has ACTUALLY been working for decades as well as the horrible reality of millions upon millions upon millions of ordinary Americans who are going through IMMENSE degrees of suffering right now as a direct result of systemic political corruption that has thoroughly corroded the U.S. system at almost virtually all levels.

Take some time to sit down and do some real heavy reading, listen to the stories of regular people who are going through harsh times right now, and if possible maybe even take a trip to your State capitol sometime and get better personally acquainted with some of your local political legislators. Educate yourself, and don't just blindly regurgitate feel-good propagandistic talking points from your family members or the nightly news, and don't look at the world solely through the myopic lens of "Well my life is going great, so I don't see any real problems here!" like so many other chucklefucks so often tend to.

No, I wasn't objectively wrong. I was literally just stating facts. America has the #1 GDP by far, with #'s 3-10 only barely outdoing America. They are 5th in social mobility, 4th in average annual income, 6th in median household income, and 5th in median annual income. Nobody in the world has that combination of numbers. You can cry about me being delusional, but all I'm doing is stating objective facts and you're the one throwing around arbitrary crap. If it doesn't "work" for Americans, then it REALLY doesn't work for every other country in the world.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Its been explained not just by me, but by several dozen other users here. In gross detail and with hard, tangible, real-world data to back it up.

And yet we're still going around in circles with this, because clearly, there is a sizable contingent of people who actually DON'T want to read rebuttals or explanations, who DON'T want to educate themselves and learn and see why they're not only wrong, but are (unintentionally and culturally) contributing to making it so difficult for sexual assault victims to come forward in the first place.

You can't seriously expect everyone to read all 30+ pages of the thread before posting in it.

You can't expect people to educate themselves or submit themselves for education to the thread before publishing their own view on the subject?

All I'm saying is that a lot of people probably just read the first post and then immediately posted a reply, without looking through the thread to see all of the other evidence and explanations that have been posted.

[JulieYBM]

You can't seriously expect everyone to read all 30+ pages of the thread before posting in it.

You can't expect people to educate themselves or submit themselves for education to the thread before publishing their own view on the subject?

All I'm saying is that a lot of people probably just read the first post and then immediately posted a reply, without looking through the thread to see all of the other evidence and explanations that have been posted.

That could be conceivably forgivable...if said poster acknowledged their own failings and sought to be taught otherwise...but that is not taking place.

[RandomGuy96]

So we should do away with due process and just go with whatever feels right? Well at this rate both parties should be arrested and thrown in jail given that large enough bodies of people "feel" they are the victim in this situation.

I feel like this bears reposting. People with this attitude do exist, somewhere, but no one on this thread advocated such a position and it was not at all relevant to the post you were replying to.

One of the cutting-edge advances in fallacy-ology has been the weak man, a terribly-named cousin of the straw man. The straw man is a terrible argument nobody really holds, which was only invented so your side had something easy to defeat. The weak man is a terrible argument that only a few unrepresentative people hold, which was only brought to prominence so your side had something easy to defeat.

For example, “I am a proud atheist and I don’t like religion. Think of the terrible things done by religion, like the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church. They try to disturb the funerals of heroes because they think God hates everybody. But this is horrible. Religious people can’t justify why they do things like this. That’s why I’m proud to be an atheist.”

It’s not a straw man. There really is a Westboro Baptist Church, for some reason. But one still feels like the atheist is making things just a little too easy on himself.

Maybe the problem is that the atheist is indirectly suggesting that Westboro Baptist Church is typical of religion? An implied falsehood?

Then suppose the atheist posts on Tumblr: “I hate religious people who are rabidly certain that the world was created in seven days or that all their enemies will burn in Hell, and try to justify it through ‘faith’. You know, the sort of people who think that the Bible has all the answers and who hate anyone who tries to think for themselves.”

Now there’s practically no implication that these people are typical. So that’s fine, right?

On the other side of the world, a religious person is writing “I hate atheists who think morality is relative, and that this gives them the right to murder however many people stand between them and a world where no one is allowed to believe in God”.

Again, not a straw man. The Soviet Union contained several million of these people. But if you’re an atheist, would you just let this pass?

You should not let reasonable skepticism of unsupported accusations drag you along to the point of excessive skepticism of supported accusations. It's easy. In this case, the evidence is sufficient.

No, I wasn't objectively wrong. I was literally just stating facts. America has the #1 GDP by far, with #'s 3-10 only barely outdoing America. They are 5th in social mobility, 4th in average annual income, 6th in median household income, and 5th in median annual income. Nobody in the world has that combination of numbers. You can cry about me being delusional, but all I'm doing is stating objective facts and you're the one throwing around arbitrary crap. If it doesn't "work" for Americans, then it REALLY doesn't work for every other country in the world.

While I 100% agree with your thrust here and I'm annoyed beyond words by the unsound lies being pushed here by people with no knowledge or education whatsoever in economics or statistics (while quoting hilarious liars such as the EPI to support them)... this really is not the forum for such a discussion. At all. Some of the broader thread topics are cutting it a close, but at least have relevance to this specific case, such as the cultural context of sexual abuse. This doesn't.

[Polyphase Avatron]

You can't expect people to educate themselves or submit themselves for education to the thread before publishing their own view on the subject?

All I'm saying is that a lot of people probably just read the first post and then immediately posted a reply, without looking through the thread to see all of the other evidence and explanations that have been posted.

That could be conceivably forgivable...if said poster acknowledged their own failings and sought to be taught otherwise...but that is not taking place.

Well many times the discussion seems to go like this.

New poster (having only read the OP): I'm not convinced he's guilty, what about X?

Long-time poster: X again? This has been answered a hundred times already, read the damn thread!

[Lord Frieza]

So we should do away with due process and just go with whatever feels right?

No. No one, literally NO ONE in here said that.

This has NOTHING to do with legality or judicial due process: in a court of criminal law, yes, it is ALWAYS "innocent until proven guilty". Unquestionably.

This ISN'T about criminal justice law though or court procedure: this is about how seriously the general public, as a collective, cultural whole, takes sexual assault claims. This is about changing NOT OUR LAWS, and NOT OUR COURT SYSTEM, but about changing SOCIETAL NORMS and culturally-ingrained assumptions and biases with regards to sexual assault claims.

Again, for the cheap seats: NO ONE IS SAYING EVEN REMOTELY TO HAVE ANY OF THIS SHIT AFFECT CRIMINAL JUSTICE LAWS OR JUDICIAL DUE PROCESS. Nor to abolish "innocent until proven guilty" precedent within a LEGAL SETTING.

People are talking about creating a social paradigm that isn't innately hostile and combative towards sexual assault victims, to a point where they feel they have to "hide" what happened to them for years, decades at a time until the emotional weight of it makes them crack.

These are two VERY separate and distinct issues. If you are unable to understand that at this point, you are intentionally not listening and you do not WANT to understand what people are saying to you.

Firstly thank you for explaining your point more clearly to me. I've only just started catching up on this and it's now nearly 3 in the morning here so you'll forgive me being slow on the uptake.

On that note, from the sounds of it you've been defending your point for a while so I'm going to overlook your rather agressive and accusing tone and lauage in favior of actually talking about this topic seriously. As well as admitting fault for doing the same.

Yes you are very much correct, it's a sickening shame that many people feel like they have to hide this kind of stuff. Just look a Jimmy Savile here in the UK, it took the sick bastard dying to finally push people to come forward. Hell it was even worse in that situation because you had high ups at the BBC and other places that were actively smothering any attempt to raise the issue. And your right, while I like to think that people would support victims, just look how many people want to paint Vic accuser as a liar due to the fact they like his voice... how dose that make any sense? Why should she be demonised? Vic hasn't been proven innocent and their is a gigantic president for people in his position to do this kind of stuff.

To look at it this way, their have been and are right now abusers who never get convicted or even at best only get convicted after they have hurt lots of people purly because these victims are not only frightend of the bastards but are fightaned of us. In fact some are more afraid of us not beliveing them then of the monster that hurt them. Thats a rather bitter pill to swallow, that sociaty make's people think that they could not ask their fellows for help because we'd string them up as a lier...

For anyone in the hard line "Vic is inoccent" camp, give that last paragarphe some though befor you go calling the victim/s out as troble makers.

[PFM18]

While I 100% agree with your thrust here and I'm annoyed beyond words by the unsound lies being pushed here by people with no knowledge or education whatsoever in economics or statistics (while quoting hilarious liars such as the EPI to support them)... this really is not the forum for such a discussion. At all. Some of the broader thread topics are cutting it a close, but at least have relevance to this specific case, such as the cultural context of sexual abuse. This doesn't.

Yeah, I know. I got off track when someone made a comment that I vehemently disagreed with, when I really should have just dropped it. You're totally right; this isn't the time and place for this.

[SMKirbyZX]

This whole situation is just a mess.

Making baseless assumptions about the motives of literally dozens of people seems incautious to me.

The plot thickens. I don't know much about Vic, but it seems to me that someone wanted to ruin his career. I advise everyone to approach this situation with caution.

Yes, someone was out to ruin Vic's career. Clearly.

Because some Z-list nobody voice actor who's main claim to fame is voicing relatively minor character on a bad dub of an early 90s Japanese children's cartoon show would clearly be the envy of MILLIONS of jealous haters who'd dedicate time and effort of their lives to spread false accusations about him just to see him "go down" and lose the vast empire of global fame and riches he's amassed for himself.

Look in a mirror for your answer to that very question.

I think it's fair to be cautious and observe all sides of a story before judging it. All I've seen so far are "He said, she said" stuff without any hard evidence. I'm not going to immediately shun a man who could potentially be innocent. I understand everyone here feels differently about the whole "Innocent until proven guilty" thing, but I think it really does have some merit, otherwise it wouldn't be an important aspect in court.

[MasenkoHA]

"He said, she said" stuff without any hard evidence. .

There’s been a bounty of hard evidence. But okay

[JulieYBM]

This whole situation is just a mess.

Making baseless assumptions about the motives of literally dozens of people seems incautious to me.

The plot thickens. I don't know much about Vic, but it seems to me that someone wanted to ruin his career. I advise everyone to approach this situation with caution.

Yes, someone was out to ruin Vic's career. Clearly.

Because some Z-list nobody voice actor who's main claim to fame is voicing relatively minor character on a bad dub of an early 90s Japanese children's cartoon show would clearly be the envy of MILLIONS of jealous haters who'd dedicate time and effort of their lives to spread false accusations about him just to see him "go down" and lose the vast empire of global fame and riches he's amassed for himself.

Look in a mirror for your answer to that very question.

I think it's fair to be cautious and observe all sides of a story before judging it. All I've seen so far are "He said, she said" stuff without any hard evidence. I'm not going to immediately shun a man who could potentially be innocent. I understand everyone here feels differently about the whole "Innocent until proven guilty" thing, but I think it really does have some merit, otherwise it wouldn't be an important aspect in court.

This is not our court. Dozens of people have come out against him. Photos exist. There's a video of him shoving his dick against the neck of Neil Kaplan, whom he had never met before.

Mic Vignogna is a predator and an abuser. He must be removed from fandom spaces and if possible prosecuted.