Vic Mignogna

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by PFM18 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:19 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
BlueChi wrote:
TKA wrote:
I punch you in the face. No witnesses are around and it didn't get caught on tape. How do you prove in a court of law, or provide evidence that I, TKA, punched you in the face?

The answer is you can't.

In the case of Vic, we have so many testimonies from victims, colleagues and witnesses that you'd have to be willfully ignorant to ignore them. There's never going to be this golden, irrefutable video evidence, or a sperm sample that you people keep suggesting need to come forward. It'll never happen here, and it doesn't happen in most sexual assault cases.

Also, this is sexual assault. If I walk up to a woman and force an unwanted kiss on her, it's sexual assault. It's sexual assault.
If we consider kisses on the cheek as sexual assault, then we must consider hugs to be so as well and we suddenly have a lot of introverts who have just been irreparably sexually assaulted out of the blue. Again, kissing one's cheek is a form of greeting in certain cultures, especially in Europe. Don't turn sexual assault into a slippery slope, please.
What's so hard about holding grown-ups accountable for their actions? Vignogna has been doing this for sixteen-plus years. He should know that what he is doing is wrong but he continues to do it anyway.
Not sure if this is a strawman or you just completely misinterpreted what they said. He wasn't at all saying there was anything remotely wrong with holding him accountable, he wasn't even saying anything defending Vic in any real capacity. He was just stating the obvious fact that hugs and kisses on the cheek don't constitute sexual assault, and defining them as such leads to a slew of problems that he highlighted.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by miguelnuva1 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:56 pm

PFM18 wrote:
miguelnuva1 wrote:Just want to point out fyi kissing someone who doesn't want you to kiss them is the legal definition of sexual assault.
No, it isn't. A prerequisite of sexual assault is "sexual contact." A kiss on the cheek isn't sexual contact. Unless of course, every time you kiss a friend or family member on the cheek you are sexually contacting them.
How many Family members do you kiss that don't want you kissing them. From a legal definition kissing someone that doesn't want you to kiss them is sexual assault, it doesn't matter what we personally feel it is, legally that's what it is.

Other than to a family member kissing is sexual.

A kiss on the cheek or the fire head counts unless that a normal greating.

If I grab a woman's breast I sexually assaulted her but now say I grabbed it. She laughs and asks me how they feel that is not assult. Sexual assult is based largely on the action and the reaction of the person assaulted.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by TKA » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:10 pm

BlueChi wrote: If we consider kisses on the cheek as sexual assault, then we must consider hugs to be so as well and we suddenly have a lot of introverts who have just been irreparably sexually assaulted out of the blue. Again, kissing one's cheek is a form of greeting in certain cultures, especially in Europe. Don't turn sexual assault into a slippery slope, please.
I'm not gonna have this discussion with you. The one I will have is this: if Vic saw that for 15 years his name was being mentioned in the same sentences as "sexual assault," wouldn't a functioning adult then stop doing that behavior so as to let the "rumors" die? The fact that he didn't, at any point, decide to curtail his tendencies means he was deriving some sort of satisfaction from doing it that he decided was worth more than the risk to his career.

FYI: rape isn't the only form of sexual assault. You don't have to penetrate a person to sexually assault them. Use the resources in this post and educate yourself.
PFM18 wrote:
If you walk up to somebody and kiss them on the cheek, you didn't sexually contact them in any way, so it isn't sexual assault. A kiss on the cheek or forehead, isn't sexual contact so it can't be sexual assault by definition.
Read and educate yourself.

Kissing someone without their consent is sexual assault.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Scsigs » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:39 pm

PFM18 wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:Um yeah Cursed Lemon, you gots to chill and stop putting words in everybody's mouth. I'm on your side here as far as believing Vic's guilty but you're doing us no favors.
Believing Vic is guilty is not a "side" everybody believes he's guilty it's just some like to throw around felonies nonchalantly while simultaneously acknowledging he's guilty.
To put it this way, I think people have probably assumed my, & others', viewpoint(s) from things I previously said here in this thread & probably the general Super dub thread.

DID Vic do the things he did in the pictures? Yes.

Was it sexual assault? No, not intended. It technically fits under the definition of unwanted physical contact through hugs & kisses on the cheek, but there doesn't seem to be any malice in the pictures. It was him greeting thousands of fans on those days & wanting to do something he thought those fans would wanna do for the ones who wanted to take pictures with them. You name ANY actor a lot of people know of that does fan meet-ups at cons & allows pictures to be taken with them & they probably do similar things. It's showing appreciation for their fans. Why is THIS the concept that's hard to grasp? He shouldn't have done it without people's consent, yes, but some people like to surprise others in those situations. Sexual assault involves both kissing & hugging, yes, but it also involves intent to do so. Would Vic have willingly sexually assaulted someone at a con like that? Even if that WAS his kink to sexually assault someone, generally you don't want people to see that shit because it's illegal.

Do I believe these fans believe Vic meant any malice? It seems that way, yes. The mind does weird shit sometimes. These people believe Vic meant something horrible with his actions. His own words in that con video explains it enough. And, again, they should've told him in the moment. Not what could be a decade later post hoc. You don't solve problems in the moment by waiting for a future opportunity. THAT'S not how change happens, or at least isn't how it SHOULD. You lay the seeds by addressing it when it happens so it can be worked on in the future. You don't wait for a huge bad thing to happen BEFORE the intervention. You do that shit as quickly as possible.
As far as I can see it, there are only a few explanations...
1. They were uncomfortable, but decided to save that shit for years post hoc en masse to defame him. I don't think I need to say how stupid that is.
2. They were uncomfortable with it in the moment & chose not to tell him. Probable & most likely.
3. They were fine with it in the moment, but looking back decided they weren't. I hope this isn't the case. To do that is really awful. Hell, some of these fans' pictures were being used for other people's agendas, then when they told them to take the pictures down, the people had to because it wouldn't bolster their agenda. The one person saying they should doctor evidence doesn't help the disbelief subside that this isn't a thing to some degree.
I'm NOT saying this is everyone. Clearly a lot of the people are just upset. Please don't misunderstand me here.

Is Vic guilty of stoking the flames? Yes. The screenshot of the Discord server for his fanclub is pretty damning. He shouldn't have done that. He should've said, "I can fight my own battles" & left it at that.

Did something go on behind the scenes of the dubs he's worked on with some of his fellow actors? Seems like it, otherwise he wouldn't have been fired from FUNimation or RoosterTeeth, though they could've been distancing themselves from the fallout of this situation. Again, as I've said before, not surprising because this is a thing companies do all the time. We don't know what's gone on that made him so hated by Sean Schemmel or Monica Rial.

Is Vic a primadonna? With how many people that have handled cons he's appeared at, it's possible & with how many different dubbing studios he's recorded in with how many jobs he's had over the years, he's probably made SOME enemies with people he didn't gel well with. If he's been unprofessional over the years, then he NEEDS to be called out & humbled. No one likes to work with a primadonna who's not grateful with being able to work in the job he/she does. Considering he has many fans, getting a swelled head about everything isn't surprising.

Is Vic guilty of telling a Jewish dude he'd "change that," referring to listening to his Christian music? Yes. However, the language of this statement is a bit vague & it seems that the dude just assumed what he meant. We don't know HOW he said it or his intent behind the statement. It just seems to me that Vic meant that he'd change his mind on picking up his Christian music CDs, but who knows.
XanatosVanBadass wrote:You don’t get to tell me what to post. I get to call you out on your uppity nonsense. Got it, kid? You aren’t an authority here. Stop pretending like you are.
Wasn't going to respond to anymore posts now, but ooh. THAT'S how you know someone's pissed at an argument they're having with someone else online. Calling them "kid." I've encountered this too many times to count. One second, I'm making legitimate counterpoints to someone else's, then next I'm getting called a "kid," even though I'm in my early 20s. Just some advice, that's NOT how you argue points, you know. We don't call you "old", so can you not assume OUR ages? By the way, why would you think that someone on Kanzenshuu's a kid? This is legitimately a fan forum for older fans of this franchise, particularly the original Japanese version of the show. What English-speaking kid or teenager watches the Japanese version? Probably not a lot of them.
XanatosVanBadass wrote:This. Isn’t. Europe. Someone who’s lived in America their whole life should know better.
Why are you misunderstanding his words? He didn't say this WAS Europe. However, a LOT of immigrants have brought over their mannerisms & forces of habit with them, which have been passed down to their descendants. Vic is clearly one of those descendants who adopted the mannerisms he grew up with for greeting people. Most people he's met didn't seem to have a problem with it, but he didn't take into account the small percentage that did. And, if you live in some place for long enough with certain people, you become accustomed to that way of expression & you adopt those growing up as your default way of doing the same things. Italians like to talk with their hands & lots of Europeans have different ways of greeting with kisses. The French do the "kisses on the cheek" thing. Italy is also a spot a lot of people like to go on honeymoons because Romance languages & their cultures are often what people deem beautiful. The way those people greet others is also engrained in their cultures, so if Vic got raised by people who're accustomed to those ways of greeting people, then he obviously picked up on those. Simple sociology & psychology.

America itself is made up almost exclusively of immigrants from other countries. And each part of the country has different ways of doing things just like most places. It's a melting pot of cultures. Same logic applies as would the logic of a European country.
PFM18 wrote:
TKA wrote: Also, this is sexual assault. If I walk up to a woman and force an unwanted kiss on her, it's sexual assault. It's sexual assault.
If you walk up to somebody and kiss them on the cheek, you didn't sexually contact them in any way, so it isn't sexual assault. A kiss on the cheek or forehead, isn't sexual contact so it can't be sexual assault by definition.
See, THIS is the problem. There's a sliding slope of the definition of "sexual assault" here. I've already said this, but one side is just blatantly assuming that was what Vic's intentions were, & flaunting it as the ONLY sane answer, while the other side is giving him the benefit of the doubt & getting shat on for actually following the standards of most Western countries; "innocent until proven guilty." Yeah, some of the doubters are vehemently defending Vic to unbelievable degrees, but some people are just waiting for more conclusive evidence than photos & feelings of the people who own them. To have something other than "this is the case, shut up & go with the crowd."

No one is making light of these situations either. In fact, most defenders of someone in THIS kind of serious a situation are just as aware of how bad it is as those going with the accusations. Why do you think that many people are arguing for a fair assessment? Not everyone can just go off of an account of one person or a group of people because you can't not give a person a chance to defend themselves & tell their side of the story. That's not how the justice system works. And yet some people wanna circumvent the fair due process. This is, seemingly, why many women who've come forth in the MeToo Movement who may have serious claims relay their stories on social media rather than going to the cops. The police take too long & the evidence they bring may not be sufficient enough to warrant their arrest. Social media takes an instant & can spread far & wide in a matter of minutes if enough people are listening/reading. Plus, social disgrace is far more effective at hurting a person than due process.

To bring up an example of what I mean here. Aziz Ansari. The man went out with a woman in the last year or so. They had dinner, went back to his place, & things got a little too hot too fast & they did things for a while. Days or weeks later, the woman comes out claiming Aziz sexually assaulted her. Her proof? She didn't tell him no & he should've known that's what she wanted even though her body language & actions said otherwise. Nobody can read minds. That's just ridiculous. At the end of it all, the only conclusion you come to is that it was just a bad date for her. If Ansari wasn't famous, she wouldn't have told that story to anyone except for maybe a female friend as an awkward story years later of bad dates & sexual encounters.

Now, Vic's situation is VERY different from Ansari's. I'm just giving an example here of one of these cases where the accusations were misconstrued by one of the people involved.

Also, one person keeps bringing up the fact that many disconnected women keep coming out of the woodwork to fuel the accusations. Vic's met THOUSANDS of people at cons over the years & many of them no doubt wanted to take pictures with him. Obviously, not everyone was comfortable with his actions. It's just the fact that it's all at once after many years over accusations that seem to be these people overthinking the situation (innocent kisses on the cheek & hugs turned into plots to rape them) that's causing the doubt. I don't expect anyone to agree. Just understand the other side. That's all I'm trying to do here.
Last edited by Scsigs on Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:07 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cetra » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:47 pm

Just want to point out that it can easily be googled that there were judges that did not deem people who gave others "unwanted kisses and hugs" as "guilty of sexual assault".

My two final cents here. It did cost me about 1 second to look up.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by PFM18 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:03 am

TKA wrote:Kissing someone without their consent is sexual assault.
Literally everything there describes it the same way I did; unwanted sexual contact. A kiss on the cheek is not sexual contact. A kiss on the mouth and forcefully "making out" with somebody is sexual in nature and is how many sexual encounters start.(Speaking from personal experience, that's how all of mine have started. Certainly none of them started with a hug or kiss on the cheek) A kiss on the cheek or forehead isn't sexual in the slightest, people do it with family members all the time. Would you make out/use tongue with a family member? No, you wouldn't, it's sexual in nature. It's the same thing here, none of these people were actually sexually violated. If I were to walk up to a girl, and force my tongue down their throat and make out with them, that would be sexual assault. That's also kissing. If I walked up and kissed them on the cheek, it would be really fucking weird, and wildly inappropriate, but it wouldn't be a form of sexual contact.

Were they made uncomfortable? Absolutely. Was it inappropriate especially for a middle-aged man? Yes, most certainly. Were they violated in a sexual way that constitutes sexual assault? Not at all.
miguelnueva1 wrote:How many Family members do you kiss that don't want you kissing them. From a legal definition kissing someone that doesn't want you to kiss them is sexual assault, it doesn't matter what we personally feel it is, legally that's what it is.

Other than to a family member kissing is sexual.

A kiss on the cheek or the fire head counts unless that a normal greating.
You're missing the point. Obviously in the case of a family member the consent is different than this situation. I wasn't disputing anything regarding consent. But for it to actually be

"other than a family member." Kind of an arbitrary definition don't you think? If I were to kiss a family member, in the way of forcing my tongue down their throat and lustfully making out with them, that would be sexual contact, and sexual assault if it was unwanted. The same rules apply with family members, they aren't just arbitrarily exempt. If I touch a family member's breast, that's sexual contact. If I kiss somebody on the cheek regardless of whether I am related to them or not, it isn't sexual contact and therefore cannot constitute sexual assault.

From a legal definition, for something to be considered sexual assault, it is required that there is sexual contact of some kind. There is absolutely nothing sexual about a kiss on the forehead/cheek or a hug. Regardless of how anybody feels about it, kisses on the cheek aren't sexual. It's literally that simple.
Cetra wrote:Just want to point out that it can easily be googled that there were judges that did not deem people who gave others "unwanted kisses and hugs" as "guilty of sexual assault".

My two final cents here. It did cost me about 1 second to look up.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by gokaiblue » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:29 am

Vic has made a statement in response to his firing. https://twitter.com/vicmignogna/status/ ... 2462895104

Honestly, I'm glad he's taking time to get help and use this time to recommit himself to his faith. I hope he can bounce back from this eventually.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Scsigs » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:34 am

gokaiblue wrote:Vic has made a statement in response to his firing. https://twitter.com/vicmignogna/status/ ... 2462895104

Honestly, I'm glad he's taking time to get help and use this time to recommit himself to his faith. I hope he can bounce back from this eventually.
It'll take a while, though. Considering he's effectively blacklisted from FUNi & probably will be taking a break from voice acting for a bit, it's gonna take a LOT for him to do so.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:38 am

One doesn't need my nearly three decades in the rodeo business to know what bullshit sounds like.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by gokaiblue » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:46 am

Maybe I'm naive or too trusting, but I don't think Vic is bullshitting in his statement.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:53 am

gokaiblue wrote:Maybe I'm naive or too trusting, but I don't think Vic is bullshitting in his statement.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:57 am

What a stereotypical Hollywood non-response from Vic.

"So I've been accused of sexual assault. I'd just like to say:

1. How awesome and nice of a guy I am
2. That I'm sorry you got upset
3. I'm going to take a vacation until this blows over"

Jesus that's actually insulting to read.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by gokaiblue » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:02 am

Definitely not what I got from it at all. I can see where you guys are coming from, but I see it as him genuinely trying to make amends and reconcile for his actions.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:08 am

People who are honest about want to rehabilitate themselves have this nagging little characteristic of actually being able to communicate understanding of exactly what they did wrong and exactly why it was wrong. Not in metaphors or ambiguous reference, but in plain English. See: Louis CK

People who aren't, meanwhile, avoid doing that like the plague.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cetra » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:11 am

Cursed Lemon wrote: Jesus that's actually insulting to read.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:15 am

Wow. I guess she was mad about having been sexually assaulted but not in a position to explain. The nerve of her.

Keep posting redpill bait though, it really reflects well on you.

EDIT: Or that tweet was from before it even happened and was clearly a joke?
Last edited by Cursed Lemon on Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cetra » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:16 am

Cursed Lemon wrote:Wow. I guess she was mad about having been sexually assaulted but not in a position to explain. The nerve of her.

Keep posting redpill bait though, it really reflects well on you.
The amount of irony.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Metalwario64 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:22 am

This thread is beyond toxic, and I feel it's really hurting the community. Now that Vic is gone, why is the thread still open? I know it's the mods' decision, but they have closed other threads with far less vitriol.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:29 am

I disagree. This thread has been extremely useful in learning exactly what/who I'm dealing with.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:37 am

Cursed Lemon wrote:I disagree. This thread has been extremely useful in learning exactly what/who I'm dealing with.
Not lately. I've seen nothing but disrespectful shit-slinging from both sides of the conversation all day today.

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