Vic Mignogna

[Kinokima]

My honest hunch is that he's probably guilty. It's as you've said, the innocent side has a bit more difficulty explaining their side of the argument, hence the conspiracies with the more extreme of them ..yet I still maintain that both sides are even. Why? My hunch isn't a fact. It never was, and it never will be. This applies to everyone's hunches here as well, be they in support of or against Vic. Until a confession is made (because realistically, proof will never come out.), I can't in good conscience say someone's a rapist for sure, because I also know there's a chance he's innocent. And as I've said before, I won't cross that threshold. We can try all we like, we'll never be able to prove he did or didn't do it.

Hunches are based on nothing more than feelings and intuition. This isn't a hunch. Stop calling it a hunch.

If multiple people come forward, including those with years of experience in the industry, then you know we've gone far beyond the point of guesses and rumors. It's infuriating when all these stories about the same person build up over the course of a decade only to be met with "ummm guys we need HARDER EVIDENCE" and "muh essjaydoubleyews" because it doesn't meet the unreasonable demands of political reactionaries on Twitter.

I wish you people would just drop the pretense already. You're not looking at this realistically. You've already admitted that what you're asking for is nearly impossible to obtain, so proceeding to say "Well both sides are even until I get a CONFESSION!" is absurd. You know that predators don't tend to confess. You know they obviously wouldn't allow themselves to be caught in the act, especially on tape, which is why it comes down to testimony and corroboration. Which is what we have, and again, you know we have it.

I absolutely support the idea of removing bad faith posts from this discussion. It's beyond exhausting to read this shit.

Why do I get the sinking, depressing feeling that you lot are almost interpreting this as a competition rather than what it actually is? "NO SIDE IS EVEN, MY SIDE WINS. PLS BAN THOSE WHO DISAGREE PLS k thx". This is potentially a case about sexual assault. Nobody fucking wins when it comes to this. Important reminder that while stories have been circling around for years, those stories pertained to Vic's unprofessional behaviour and not his alleged sexual assaults. Those are more recent accusations which are being discussed. All bad faith that comes from this is from people like you who want to shut other people up by force instead of realizing that you can't have it your way because life just isn't going to bend over backwards for you.
Oh and yes. It's a hunch. No matter how sure you think you are. If you don't have a concrete way of proving it but you feel strongly about it, it's a hunch. It is what it is. You're not above people here who are just as bothered as you are about it, but go about it in a different way.

NO stories about Vic and being inappropriate with minors & sexual assault (touching women inappropriately) have also been circulating for years.

This is recent but again before this whole thing blew up as thread started in 2017

https://prettyuglylittleliar.net/topic/ ... a/?page=56

Here is a thread discussing it from 2014

https://www.reddit.com/r/weeabootales/c ... _fangirls/


Another old post discussing this and while the person doesnt say whether he believes the stuff it’s true the post shows that this stuff was out there about Vic well before this incident blew up http://infiniterainyday.blogspot.com/20 ... nogna.html

I mean yeah you can say it is just rumors. But how many rumors do you need when you start realizing there may be some truth to the rumors. If you google you can find even more of this stuff. It’s riduclous to think all these women just suddenly wanted to ruin Vic’s career.


Oh here is another old thread https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/20 ... 530?page=1


There is even some older stuff from live journal but can’t find that at the moment.

[Shaddy]

Why they covered him all this years ? Co workers , Funimation, all sucks . Doing that with lots of people around , why ?
Those things happened long ago , why did he voice broly last movie .
I don’t understand, it’s not like all this blow up because something he did 1 month ago
Funimation and co workers could avoid some cases and reduce the amount of victims . They are guilty of cover him

Because he voiced Edward Elric and Broly. Those are big roles, they more than likely valued the money he made them over what they would lose from people not wanting to support things he was in. Funimation are a company. Even though it was a good decision to fire him, they're not heroes for it, and I thankfully don't see anyone citing them as such.

[Zephyr]

I actually somewhat agree to this, if only to an extent. My honest hunch is that he's probably guilty. It's as you've said, the innocent side has a bit more difficulty explaining their side of the argument, hence the conspiracies with the more extreme of them ..yet I still maintain that both sides are even. Why? My hunch isn't a fact. It never was, and it never will be. This applies to everyone's hunches here as well, be they in support of or against Vic. Until a confession is made (because realistically, proof will never come out.), I can't in good conscience say someone's a rapist for sure, because I also know there's a chance he's innocent. And as I've said before, I won't cross that threshold. We can try all we like, we'll never be able to prove he did or didn't do it.

You're misunderstanding. The position that Vic is guilty is not based on a "hunch". It's based on facts, and inductive reasoning. There's a difference.

"We can't know for sure with absolute certainty beyond a shadow of a doubt if he really did it or not!" is true, but as an observation it's neither novel nor relevant to this discussion. We can make a damn good guess.

This is like when people try to fault evolution as "just a theory". It is, but pointing that out is indicative of really missing the point.

[BlueChi]

NO stories about Vic and being inappropriate with minors & sexual assault (touching women inappropriately) have also been circulating for years.

This is recent but again before this whole thing blew up as thread started in 2017

https://prettyuglylittleliar.net/topic/ ... a/?page=56

Here is a thread discussing it from 2014

https://www.reddit.com/r/weeabootales/c ... _fangirls/


Another old post discussing this and while the person doesnt say whether he believes the stuff it’s true the post shows that this stuff was out there about Vic well before this incident blew up http://infiniterainyday.blogspot.com/20 ... nogna.html

I mean yeah you can say it is just rumors. But how many rumors do you need when you start realizing there may be some truth to the rumors. If you google you can find even more of this stuff. It’s riduclous to think all these women just suddenly wanted to ruin Vic’s career.


Oh here is another old thread https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/20 ... 530?page=1


There is even some older stuff from live journal but can’t find that at the moment.

I appreciate the links, thanks. Just finished reading them and yeah, that's pretty sketchy behaviour. Not as bad as I was expecting (I know this sounds horrible, but I was scared that those stories would be more graphic), but it's still incredibly unnerving him acting drunk around minors who nearly worship him...

[TheBlackPaladin]

Why they covered him all this years ? Co workers , Funimation, all sucks . Doing that with lots of people around , why ?
Those things happened long ago , why did he voice broly last movie .
I don’t understand, it’s not like all this blow up because something he did 1 month ago
Funimation and co workers could avoid some cases and reduce the amount of victims . They are guilty of cover him

The rumors regarding Vic's behavior have been going around for quite a number of years now, but rumors, in and of themselves, are not actionable. At least not legally. So if they "heard it through the grapevine that something inappropriate occurred," that in and of itself is not enough for them to fire him. If, however, somebody comes forward with a first-hand account, then--even in the absence of physical evidence--that's no longer a rumor. First-hand accounts are enough, in many cases, for a company to make a decision regarding the firing of an employee. In many cases, first-hand accounts can also be enough for authorities and courts to pursue the matter further.

So, quite frankly, I'm not blaming nor praising FUNimation here. My stance on them as far as how they handled this is neutral. On the one hand, one could argue that they should have asked more questions once they heard rumors, but they nevertheless wouldn't have been able to fire him based on rumors. The tipping point for them was when other voice actors and actresses came forward with first-hand accounts. In the unlikely event that somebody's wondering what it would take for my stance on FUNimation to go from neutral to negative in this instance, it would be if somebody came to them before #KickVic started with first-hand accounts and they decided not to act.

[prince212]

Why they covered him all this years ? Co workers , Funimation, all sucks . Doing that with lots of people around , why ?
Those things happened long ago , why did he voice broly last movie .
I don’t understand, it’s not like all this blow up because something he did 1 month ago
Funimation and co workers could avoid some cases and reduce the amount of victims . They are guilty of cover him

The rumors regarding Vic's behavior have been going around for quite a number of years now, but rumors, in and of themselves, are not actionable. At least not legally. So if they "heard it through the grapevine that something inappropriate occurred," that in and of itself is not enough for them to fire him. If, however, somebody comes forward with a first-hand account, then--even in the absence of physical evidence--that's no longer a rumor. First-hand accounts are enough, in many cases, for a company to make a decision regarding the firing of an employee. In many cases, first-hand accounts can also be enough for authorities and courts to pursue the matter further.

So, quite frankly, I'm not blaming nor praising FUNimation here. My stance on them as far as how they handled this is neutral. On the one hand, one could argue that they should have asked more questions once they heard rumors, but they nevertheless wouldn't have been able to fire him based on rumors. The tipping point for them was when other voice actors and actresses came forward with first-hand accounts. In the unlikely event that somebody's wondering what it would take for my stance on FUNimation to go from neutral to negative in this instance, it would be if somebody came to them before #KickVic started with first-hand accounts and they decided not to act.

Just rumors are enough for a big company to start a investigation 10 years ago , not that hard to send somebody to check on him or give him a yellow card back in the days .
No excuses of his importance in the company or whatever, rumors are enough to start a investigation in this kind of manners
I do blame Funimation and co workers , knowing the rumors, they didn’t take a shit on the young girls , that’s not good at all , shame on them , hopefully this won’t happen again , no fear .

[Kinokima]

NO stories about Vic and being inappropriate with minors & sexual assault (touching women inappropriately) have also been circulating for years.

This is recent but again before this whole thing blew up as thread started in 2017

https://prettyuglylittleliar.net/topic/ ... a/?page=56

Here is a thread discussing it from 2014

https://www.reddit.com/r/weeabootales/c ... _fangirls/


Another old post discussing this and while the person doesnt say whether he believes the stuff it’s true the post shows that this stuff was out there about Vic well before this incident blew up http://infiniterainyday.blogspot.com/20 ... nogna.html

I mean yeah you can say it is just rumors. But how many rumors do you need when you start realizing there may be some truth to the rumors. If you google you can find even more of this stuff. It’s riduclous to think all these women just suddenly wanted to ruin Vic’s career.


Oh here is another old thread https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/20 ... 530?page=1


There is even some older stuff from live journal but can’t find that at the moment.

I appreciate the links, thanks. Just finished reading them and yeah, that's pretty sketchy behaviour. Not as bad as I was expecting (I know this sounds horrible, but I was scared that those stories would be more graphic), but it's still incredibly unnerving him acting drunk around minors who nearly worship him...

Yeah and here is the thing that a lot of the Devout “I Stand With Vic” people are missing: They keep saying why didn’t they report it to the police. Why wasnt he arrested. But even if he didn’t commit a criminal offense to be arrested for that doesn’t mean his behavior was appropriate as a public figure. And that’s the thing Vic is a public figure who represents the companies he works for when he goes to cons.

So yes an internal investigation could lead to Funimation no longer hiring him. And cons hearing all the testimonies may have decided to not invite him. The cons and Funimation can decide on this action even if Vic didn’t commit something he can be arrested for.

I mean we can all be fired from our jobs even if we don’t commit a crime if we do something that is against our organization’s values.

[excelhedge]

Testimonies without hard evidence to back them up are nothing but rumors. Plain and simple.

lol buddy

If your daughter got sexually assaulted by some guy but had zero evidence to support it, are you just going to pat her head and say, "sorry honey, but until I see the video tape, you're just spreading rumors"?

If not - hopefully not - why is it different for the dozens of women who say Vic was inappropriate with them?

I get your point but that is a poor example, one is your daughter you've raised and most likely trust after years of living together and most likely teaching her value in the truth etc.

I'm in no way lessening the value of the woman's allegations if true, but the way a lot of this has come out (over social media leading to crowds feuding over if allegations are true or not) tied in with the long durations some of these women waited to speak out definitely makes them less believable to me rather than my own daughter. Do I think less of Monica Rial for the way she's handled everything, definitely, even if it is unfair she had to speak out at all if the allegations are true.

There does seem to be too much evidence to ignore at this point so you'd have to argue something definitely has happened. Has Vic outright denied anything or has he just never addressed any specific case? I've seen most of his apologies at that recent convention but while he says he got lazy which his personal affection is that all he's really owning up to? Being too touchy at cons?

Thanks for responding to him. Guess the overdramatic asshat hasn't 2 and 2 together that when he compares someone to a Holocaust denier that he was going to be added to thier ignore list.

[Cursed Lemon]

I get your point but that is a poor example, one is your daughter you've raised and most likely trust after years of living together and most likely teaching her value in the truth etc.

This isn't about who is trustworthy (although thanks for making the point I rhetorically assumed no one would actually make), this is about Chuckles over there and his irrational, ridiculous standard of evidence for a type of "misadventure" that very regularly doesn't have evidence. But I guess the point there is that if your criteria for believing someone when they say they've been sexually assaulted is whether or not you, you personally, can trust them, then you're CLEARLY acting only on your own personal biases when you throw judgments around about people you've never met before.

Meanwhile, and further to your point, one would have to wonder about how you'd feel if some fucking random on the internet told your daughter that she wasn't trustworthy enough to believe her claim about being sexually assaulted. You'd have to sympathize with said random, now wouldn't you?

I'm in no way lessening the value of the woman's allegations if true, but the way a lot of this has come out (over social media leading to crowds feuding over if allegations are true or not) tied in with the long durations some of these women waited to speak out definitely makes them less believable to me rather than my own daughter. Do I think less of Monica Rial for the way she's handled everything, definitely, even if it is unfair she had to speak out at all if the allegations are true.

What the hell are you guys on about with repeating this nonsense? How she handled what? Because she didn't share her story like a wilting, mewling victim, but instead went into it headstrong and assertive? Because she refused to take crap from the sudden, mysterious upswell of Vic "supporters" who are nothing more than garbage opportunist redpill shitstains? Yeah, really throwing her credibility into question with that.

There does seem to be too much evidence to ignore at this point so you'd have to argue something definitely has happened.

Yeah.

You would.

[JulieYBM]

If the victims went to the police then they would be caught in a situation where they would basically be left alone to try and make their allegations. What's more, if someone like Rial or another co-worker went and failed their career would basically be over. They're in a hard position, either way you shake it. This movement borne from social media--where the victims can band together--really helps the situation.

[Champa The Destroyer]

I have nothing much to add, but (as if it ever needed to be disproven to begin with) I think that Monica outright debunking someone's tweet saying that Dragon Ball was misogynistic (it seems like the tweet was trolling and not serious though) and her saying that Dragon Ball clearly isn't sexist is more than enough proof that it's not "just a bunch of SJW's going after Vic." Like c'mon, I'm slightly right leaning politically, and it's painfully obvious that this massive thing isn't an SJW conspiracy.

[Cursed Lemon]

If the victims went to the police then they would be caught in a situation where they would basically be left alone to try and make their allegations. What's more, if someone like Rial or another co-worker went and failed their career would basically be over. They're in a hard position, either way you shake it. This movement borne from social media--where the victims can band together--really helps the situation.

To this, I'd like to throw out an anecdote.

A couple of years back, the NHL'er Patrick Kane was involved in a rape allegation, and I discussed this on a popular hockey forum. Some would say that this is a bad example to bring up here for a couple of reasons, one being that in contrast to the Vic situation, everyone was ready to rake Patrick Kane over the coals due to his negative off-the-ice reputation (myself included), and two being that the allegation ended up proven false (wow, it's like false claims are pretty easy to root through or something). These aren't related to why I'm bringing it up. Now, this is the internet. In places of dense discussion, it's most often inhabited by...let's say the more nerdy among us. Young, too. And a lot of people who inhabit this forum I'm speaking of, certainly a lot of those who were taking part in the discussion, were hovering in the range of teens to late twenties...also, a lot of them were sporting anime avatars. The demographic wasn't hard to determine.

Now, one of the details of this Patrick Kane case was the mishandling of a rape kit, and it was a detail that underwent heavy debate given that it was such an important aspect of the whole ordeal. I just couldn't help but notice that roughly 50% of those commenting about this particular aspect of the case actually had no idea - zero awareness whatsoever - of what goes into a rape kit. How it's done, when it's done, what it tells us, what it doesn't tell us, how long after it's performed can it still be tested, so on and so forth. These people didn't have the faintest idea, even when watching a single episode of Law & Order SVU will literally tell you all of that...and I'm sitting here thinking to myself, why in the hell are you discussing a rape kit when you don't have a god damn idea of what a rape kit is or does? How utterly presumptuous and out of order a person are you to throw your opinion into the arena of debate like that when you actually have no idea what you're talking about, and moreover to be proud and boastful that you don't know about that kind of "trivial nonsense"?

Which leads me back to this forum, and people posting in this thread, me hearing things like, "the fact that it took them so long to report this raises questions" when everybody and their god damn dog knows that the vast majority of sexual violence cases go unreported due to the victim's fear of blowback and the further trauma of the process (nevermind their apparent inability to do the necessary introspection to build empathy with this position). So I really just can't help but wonder if lurking inside this forum (as well as other choice places on the internet) is a slew of zit-faced 16-year-old ignoramuses puffing their chests out with pride at their own rape skepticism like they are god's gift to scholarly thinking, when in reality they have exactly zero world experience and don't know shit about fuck. Because that is the strong implication that I am getting right now.

[Marlowe89]

Why do I get the sinking, depressing feeling that you lot are almost interpreting this as a competition rather than what it actually is? "NO SIDE IS EVEN, MY SIDE WINS. PLS BAN THOSE WHO DISAGREE PLS k thx".

What the hell are you talking about? Who are you even talking to?

Posters that throw up disingenuous tripe like "durrrr guise let's be objective!!!!!" after a fuckload of evidence is brought to the table aren't contributing to a discussion. In fact, what they're playing at is classic victim blaming. Their posts should be removed from said discussion. That's what I said. Whether they're permanently banned is up to the staff, but I sure as shit wouldn't be sad to see them go.

This is potentially a case about sexual assault. Nobody fucking wins when it comes to this.

Wrong. The perpetrators win as long as they continue to get away with it.

McNuggets has been getting away with it since at least 1989, the year I was born. The stories involving him have also been circulating for several years, dude.

Important reminder that while stories have been circling around for years, those stories pertained to Vic's unprofessional behaviour and not his alleged sexual assaults.

Also wrong, but you've been provided with some relevant links already, so I won't stress on this point.

All bad faith that comes from this is from people like you who want to shut other people up by force instead of realizing that you can't have it your way because life just isn't going to bend over backwards for you.

Now here's where you're losing me.

Shutting people up is exactly what you, and other people with your position, advocate when it comes to silencing victims. You don't care about them telling their experiences (and it's worth noting that some of you try to cleverly play the concern-trolling card by pretending that you care, but you don't). Every time this shit happens, it's the same song and dance with you people: "WHERE DA PROOF" in response to survivors finally having the courage to come forward with their accounts on a public platform, even when they stand to gain nothing from it.

And this isn't just random falseflagging from the usual idiots co-opting a movement to make it look bad, these are real allegations from sincere fans and colleagues. There is no possible excuse at this juncture, but you keep making them. Calling everything short of video footage that can't exist a "hunch" is you being willfully oblivious as to why testimonies are important, what qualifies as evidence, and how sexual assault cases actually work -- from both a legal standpoint and an employer one. I didn't say anything about banning you, but your position certainly isn't worth the amount of course-correction that we apparently need to keep engaging in.

[PFM18]

Outside of mathematics and logic, you won't find proof of anything anywhere.

Yes, absolutely. This needs to be emphasized more, I don't think a lot of people really have come to terms with this. The only times you can definitively prove something are in the cases of math and logic. Mathematical induction can prove, without a doubt, something to be true. But even that can only be done because of the assumptions and parameters that you have already defined to work with. This is why juries exist; people interpret the evidence to the best of their ability. If things were proven, then having a group of people coming to a decision would be nonsensical and redundant.

These things are never cut and dry, and Vic's case is no different. It will never be definitively proven that Vic is guilty of anything. However, you need to approach this situation logically and ask: "what is more likely?"

-A large body of individuals have simultaneously fabricated claims in an extremely coordinated and premeditated manner for the purpose of...uhh they don't like his acting maybe? (I don't know why the hell anyone would ever do this)
-Vic has conducted himself in an appropriate manner and people have assembled the courage to speak out about it now.

I think the answer should be fairly obvious.....

[Broly深蓝]

Woah, what happened to this thread

[miguelnuva1]

Here's my two cents.

I personally feel that Vic is guilty do to the large number of accusations over the length of time the stories come from. That being said I don\t think we should be banning people on a Dragonball form just because they have a different opinion then we do. I've seen a lot of idiots supporting Vic and I've seen some people that support Vic that I wouldn't cast out in the same way that I have seen so KickVic people that were taking things a little too far.

I feel that there are too many women coming out with stories against Vic but at the end of the day I am not a victim and was not there that is between Vic, the victims and God who know the Truth. Once again I don't believe this at all but what if Monica and Jamie are trying to get Vic fired and what if Vic is guilty but it was not his attention to hurt his victim as he said in his apology. I think stories are enough evidence because I have not seen anything to say that these victims would make up stories like with Chris Hardwick where his ex had flaws in her story and there was clear reasons she would make up likes about Chirs. Vic doesn't seem to have those saving graces that Hardwick did in the stories.

Saying that to see even though I don't believe I can see why some stand with Vic and I can see others going to the extreme to defend him because they are assholes such as believing Vic has a right to touch any woman any way he once. Yes their extremists out there but they are on both sides and yes I have seen some bad comments throughout this entire thread but their are a couple people who I feel shouldn't get the boot just because they stand on a different side with us weather that be a right or wrong side.

Using a personal example a close Friend of mine thought people were lying on Bill Cosby in till the evidence piled up and another friend of mine who stood with Vic did so as they were not fully informed as I mentioned that amount of time the allegations went as well as what is the smoking gun to me the victim from 1989. I just personally feel that while some of these stories could be false it\s impossible that all of them are false and I don\t see Jamie and Monica risking their career making false statements to get rid of one voice actor. I mean if this was true why just Vic, why not someone else?

A final point is that Vic apologized and the way the video felt to me was a man that knew he was guilty but was not intentionally setting out to hurt people and was trying to make amends now versus a man that was innocent and needed to defend himself.

To end this again what I don't think we should do is go on a witch hunt and kick people off a Dragonball forum for saying they want more evidence especially when there is an ignore feature. If someone breaks a rule or makes a nasty post about a member or a victim I say give them the boot but just simply defending Vic, let them stay and try to convince them why they should switch sides or ignore them. I know it is hard especially to someone who has personal experience with abuse sometimes the stupid asshole is just uneducated not necessarily an asshole and some times there are.

[gokaiblue]

Agreed wholeheartedly with everything you said. It's sad that this issue caused so much division and brought out the worst in people.

[IgnorantFuniFan]

I think this is probably a PR nightmare for Funimation. It is a very private affair and since the people involved are voice actors many more people know about it than if it were one of us creeping around at a convention. I'm seeing talk of fans trying to boycott Funimation but I'm not sure if it's a very small but vocal minority. I think there are a lot of dub fans who grew up with Broly's voice and have some of attachment to Vic, who in my opinion sounded really good as Broly so they might be having a hard time processing this kind of news.

[MasenkoHA]

Fans who are getting all upset about this because of their attachment to Vic as a voice actor are part of the problem *shrug*

[IgnorantFuniFan]

Fans who are getting all upset about this because of their attachment to Vic as a voice actor are part of the problem *shrug*

You're right, but it still sucks that someone who voiced one of your favorite villains gets hit with many, many sexual harassment allegations. It's best to seperate the art from the artist