Son Dragon wrote:And you've been polite. That's what matters the most.
While being polite is of course greatly important in a vast majority of situations in everyday life... this is not a universal absolute. There DO indeed come some circumstances where civility is more of a hindrance and "tone policing" calls for politeness are at best greatly unhelpful, and at worst a disingenuous weapon that certain people will eagerly wield with malicious intent to brow-beat and silence any clarity of perspective or fact-based analysis.
With much of the horrendous naivety, stupidity, and gross misogyny-rooted ugliness with regards to (at this point, VERY well documented and more than easy to study) key facts on how most rape and sexual assault cases tend to play themselves out more often than not that has been on display throughout thread? Civility just isn't going to cut it.
What the "skeptics" in this thread are putting forth is, at best, unbelievably moronic and coming from a place of astounding ignorance about thuddingly basic real-world societal issues with sexual assault, and at worst, vile, grotesque, and altogether deliberate muddying the waters and gaslighting because they have a personal political ax to grind with regards to key feminist issues that are of great importance out in the world currently.
I mean, I know this is now going back QUITE a ways in this thread now,
but both myself and several other forum members here have put together some exhaustive posts detailing and outlining EXACTLY why it is that knee-jerk "erring on the side of skepticism" towards most sexual assault victims is both a logically faulty place to come at these cases from (not the least of which because,
statistically speaking,
there are FAR more sexual assault cases that ultimately turn out to be true than there are falsely reported ones) as well as a part of a much broader and vastly destructive societal ill that has been literally helping to let sexual predators get away with their crimes for years, along with placing an obscenely uneeded psychological and emotional burden on the victims that ultimately leads to them very often being frightened and intimidated - by broader society at large - into NOT coming forward to the police.
This is more than enough of an immensely serious, and in many cases outright life and death, societal problem, that yes I'm sorry to say this: fuck politeness, and fuck you getting your personal feewings hurt. The stakes at play here for assault victims having their stories dismissed and attacked by the public simply FAR outweigh and are VASTLY more important than your butthurt at having been snapped at for saying something UNBELIEVABLY godawful lightspeed stupid and counter-productive about this issue.
Son Dragon wrote:If you did your research and that's the conclusion you came up with. It's fine. You don't need to prove it to anyone else. You might be wrong, you might be right. Who really knows. But don't let it get you down.
A whole universe of "no".
1) As Cursed Lemon already noted, much of his "research" is just completely irrelevant nonsense, culled from baseless Youtube videos (made by clearly bad-faith actors with an obvious and barely-concealed personal agenda to push) and Tweet screencaps that mean next to nothing and have no real bearing on anything of importance to this issue. At NO point did WhowhoYouwho (Jesus) come within MILES of trying to understand or conveying that they understand so much as the most threadbare basics about sexual assault in so much as even a GENERAL sense.
2) This isn't a "Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but either way I'm proud of you for trying! Here's a participation trophy!" kind of scenario: this isn't a fucking video game puzzle or whatever ridiculously stupid nonsense. This is real, flesh and blood human beings who have (very clearly and overwhelmingly likely) been sexually molested by a guy who is very likely a serial offender that's been getting away with it for evidently
decades now.
Neither WhowhoYouwho's personal feelings, nor yours, nor ANYONE else's here among the "armchair skeptics" matters in the
absolute fucking slightest. The ONLY thing that matters is that this creep gets stopped from hurting anyone else at cons or FUNimation events any further and that he pays SOME sort of consequences for his actions.
Obviously those consequences won't (nor should) include jail, but him having his VA career stripped from him and being permanently barred from attending cons and fan meet & greets is a MORE than adequate penalty given the circumstances. So long as he's kept from hurting anyone else, that's ALL that ultimately matters, and some teenage or 20-something know-nothing on a fan forum having their ego bruised for half a second for being a fucking clueless simpleton on this issue literally means
less than nothing in comparison.
A big part of the communication problem here is that most of the "skeptics" throughout this thread have simply NOT been educating themselves via reading the (by now, exhaustive and long-settled) research data regarding the fundamental problems with society-as-a-whole disbelieving and antagonizing rape and sexual assault victims, even in cases where its VERY clear that they're very overwhelmingly likely telling the truth (like this one).
No matter how many times users like myself and
TKA (who rather soundly put this shit to bed right up front on the first fucking page of this cringe-filled shitshow of a thread) continually post link after link after link after link after link of solidly backed-up studies regarding the inherent dynamics of and statistics behind the realities of most sexual assault claims, they continue to be routinely ignored as the thread gets positively FLOODED with asinine Youtube video after asinine Youtube video, all of which are made by complete and utter fucking idiot manchildren internet basement dwellers who Cursed Lemon rather pinpoint accurately described as, and I quote:
Cursed Lemon wrote:a slew of zit-faced 16-year-old ignoramuses puffing their chests out with pride at their own rape skepticism like they are god's gift to scholarly thinking, when in reality they have exactly zero world experience and don't know shit about fuck.
And who furthermore have nothing but stark-raving conjecture and hearsay and all of ZERO facts or evidence or sound logic to back up any of their absurd, outlandishly stupid non-arguments.
All of the relevant facts here are as follows:
- We now have literally DOZENS of different claims of Vic's very consistent MO of sexually predatory and abusive behavior.
- Nearly ALL of those claims come from TOTALLY unconnected individuals, most of whom don't know one another from the Man on the fucking Moon.
- The claims date back literally DECADES, to the late 1980s, well long many years before Vic was even the exceedingly minor non-celebrity that he is today.
- There is almost ZERO motive for the victims and accusers to be lying about any of this: contrary to what the FUNimation fanbase are deluded enough to believe, the reality is that Vic Mignogna is a totally and absolutely inconsequential nobody of a Z-list voice actor for a handful of English adaptations of Japanese children's cartoons, whom no one outside of a fairly tiny niche of diehard dorks on the internet gives the slightest inkling of a flying fuck about. The accusers doing the accusing have literally N-O-T-H-I-N-G to gain, and in fact PLENTY of abuse and harassment to take from clueless fucking idiots and butthurt fanboys - like some of the brain trusts in this very thread - for their troubles.
- Despite having token services like Human Resources that are ostensibly supposed to take these matters seriously, the on-the-ground reality is that everything from
corporate work environments (such as say... FUNimation studios),
to schools,
to even the U.S. Military, have a LONG history of
sweeping rape and sexual harassment complaints under the rug if they are able to get away with doing so. So contrary to what so many blissfully oblivious people still-asking "Why didn't any of these supposed 'victims' just complain to someone or report Vic to management?" seem to be under the delusion of, most women in professional settings will very bluntly attest that simply "complaining to H.R." is NOT going to do jack shit in a great deal of instances. As I keep repeating: this whole #MeToo thing didn't just suddenly spring forth from thin fucking air just to fuck with hapless idiots on nerd message boards and 4Chan.
In order for this whole clusterfuck to not be true and for Vic to be "innocent" in any way, then that would mean that ALL of these various, totally disconnected women from all across the country, some of them going back DECADES before Vic was a known presence within Otaku circles (and hell, before Broli was a character that even existed over in Japan) would ALL have to be in cahoots, coordinating with one another from all over the map to spread consistent lies about some random dude for... for WHAT exactly?
If all of this were in fact some super deep-cover, longform feminist SJW conspiracy to take down the random schmuck who voices Broli in English DBZ, it would have to have had its roots in the late 1980s; LONG before a single soul on the planet that wasn't his family and friends knew who in the atomic powered fucking hell Vic Mignogna was.
So set aside everything else, and use some common sense: which is more likely to you? The above described "long-con conspiracy among a vast network of crazed feminists to go after some random voice actor guy that no one outside an anime convention gives a shit about" scenario?
Or that this guy is probably one of about a COUNTLESS number of standard-issue creepers who's into underage girls and getting his rocks off invading women's personal space and not keeping his hands to himself? And has been getting away with it for all this time because we've been living for countless decades now in a fucked up society that has a VERY long and storied history of not treating rape or sexual assault claims NEARLY seriously enough, allowing for COUNTLESS other scumbags like this to get away with their shit with impunity?
And that the internet of today is filled to the brim with FAR too many socially inexperienced, awkward, grossly over-sheltered, naive, sexually pent-up losers who are apt to sooner believe in their own petty resentments at women for not deep-throating them high school than they are to believe in (much less have the wherewithal and intellectual curiosity to just look up) what COUNTLESS women and rape/psychology experts have been discussing and trying to get through to the public for DECADES now?
This isn't a particularly tough one to suss out here.
The reason that so many people here are by sheer forceful stubbornness trying to WILL this into a "debatable issue" that "could go either way" is because most of them simply don't WANT to listen to common sense, stone-cold facts, and logical deductive reasoning: because most of them have one (or both) of two different emotional stakes in this matter that they are using to willfully blind themselves to the obvious reality here:
1) They're myopic dorks who are WAY too overly-invested emotionally in their favorite English Anime Dub: so much so that FAR more critically important real world issues generally don't matter to them NEARLY as much, and they're willing to totally set aside/minimize in their minds the very real pain of actual sexual assault victims just so they can desperately and pathetically cling onto their cherished childhood nostalgia totem.
And/or 2) They've got deeply-held personal biases and leanings towards a somewhat relatively recent but VERY widespread (within internet nerd spheres at least) anti-feminism - and in more extreme cases, outright racist and fascist - political ideology and outlook, that's born largely out of their own petty bitterness, resentments, insecurities, and personal failings in life that they'd much rather project out onto "others" in the world than own up to themselves.
And if its not either 1 or 2 or a combination of both, then it may well just purely be:
3) They're just THAT unbelievably naive, gullible, and hopelessly oblivious and insulated from the harsh realities of the outside world. I can attest from LOTS of personal, firsthand experience with this forum: there's a bone-chillingly LARGE amount of that that's been a fundamental part of this forum's communal makeup since more than a decade ago now.
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