Vic Mignogna

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Fionordequester
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:10 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote:If you weigh information on how nicely it's presented to you, that is entirely your own personal flaw. That's the entire point of my post. Fuck people who need to be coddled into not having socially damaging views.
Here's the thing; if I don't know a lot about a situation, both arguments will generally sound just as convincing, to me. So, as part of my (admittedly flawed) human nature, I start paying attention to other traits of the person trying to convince me. For example...

Patience vs. Impatience

I value patience in anyone trying to convince me of something. Why? Because in my mind, a person who's patient with me is someone who's also patient enough to do their due diligence. Quality research costs time and effort; so it's easier for patient people to do than for impatient people.

In addition, I can also feel more comfortable questioning a patient person. I can ask what they might consider to be a "stupid" question, and then come out more informed by the end of it. With an impatient person, I might be afraid they'll bite my head off or something...meaning I won't ask a question I really should've asked.

Furthermore, I view personal attacks as a sign of impatience. If someone calls me stupid, or a mindless zombie, or something as ridiculous as all that...then I'm more inclined to think of them as an "impatient" person. Patient people don't lose their cool like that; at least, I don't think so.

So yes, I value presentation in how information is given to me. I don't think that's a weakness, either. That's just part of debate.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:24 pm

Don't convolute this.

All of the related material has been posted ad nauseam in this thread since the OP was laid down. Nobody in here is the information gatekeeper that you have to appease in order to get the whole story. Everyone has access to the same resources as you, and some people are still playing Daddy's Little Sophist about it all.

Believing Vic is innocent is a positivist position, and with everything that's out there, one can only hold that position if one is a major fuckass. Don't pointlessly rake your own self over the coals if you don't fit the description.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:26 pm

Fionordequester wrote:
Cursed Lemon wrote:If you weigh information on how nicely it's presented to you, that is entirely your own personal flaw. That's the entire point of my post. Fuck people who need to be coddled into not having socially damaging views.
Here's the thing; if I don't know a lot about a situation, both arguments will generally sound just as convincing, to me. So, as part of my (admittedly flawed) human nature, I start paying attention to other traits of the person trying to convince me. For example...

Patience vs. Impatience

I value patience in anyone trying to convince me of something. Why? Because in my mind, a person who's patient with me is someone who's also patient enough to do their due diligence. Quality research costs time and effort; so it's easier for patient people to do than for impatient people.

In addition, I can also feel more comfortable questioning a patient person. I can ask what they might consider to be a "stupid" question, and then come out more informed by the end of it. With an impatient person, I might be afraid they'll bite my head off or something...meaning I won't ask a question I really should've asked.

Furthermore, I view personal attacks as a sign of impatience. If someone calls me stupid, or a mindless zombie, or something as ridiculous as all that...then I'm more inclined to think of them as an "impatient" person. Patient people don't lose their cool like that; at least, I don't think so.

So yes, I value presentation in how information is given to me. I don't think that's a weakness, either. That's just part of debate.
The thing is, people are not going to continue to be patient if they are forced to repeatedly explain the same thing over and over again to dozens of people who keep saying the same things. And when a good fraction of those people are deliberately being obtuse in order to push an agenda, it's easy to cast doubt on the motivations of the rest of them.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:29 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:The thing is, people are not going to continue to be patient if they are forced to repeatedly explain the same thing over and over again to dozens of people who keep saying the same things. And when a good fraction of those people are deliberately being obtuse in order to push an agenda, it's easy to cast doubt on the motivations of the rest of them.
Yeah, I know. At this point, I actually wouldn't be opposed to VegettoEX locking the thread, since it HAS gone on for so long.

I just think that if PoS has had a reckoning, then that's something that should be congratulated; even if it doesn't seem like it should've been that hard of a choice. You know what I'm saying?
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by theherodjl » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:15 pm

I've already made my opinion known on this topic but now I really think this thread should be locked or even deleted now.
Its gotten past the point of simply debating something non-DB related(I mean really, Kanzenshuu is not a courtroom or a support group) and is now a showcase on hostility between opposing sides to the point of personal judgement of one another's character. The vast majority of us don't really know each other or the exact nature as to how we form our opinions so we shouldn't be guessing that we know how one another are, as human beings, based on how we might feel about this situation. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that none of us came to Kanzenshuu to judge or be judged by other fans of the DB fandom and the way I see it, we're a community for DB and I think we should remain a community and not let real-world tribulations & misunderstandings divide us.
I seriously vote to close this thread, anyone in agreement?
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by The Tori-bot » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:49 pm

theherodjl wrote:I've already made my opinion known on this topic but now I really think this thread should be locked or even deleted now.
Its gotten past the point of simply debating something non-DB related(I mean really, Kanzenshuu is not a courtroom or a support group) and is now a showcase on hostility between opposing sides to the point of personal judgement of one another's character. The vast majority of us don't really know each other or the exact nature as to how we form our opinions so we shouldn't be guessing that we know how one another are, as human beings, based on how we might feel about this situation. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that none of us came to Kanzenshuu to judge or be judged by other fans of the DB fandom and the way I see it, we're a community for DB and I think we should remain a community and not let real-world tribulations & misunderstandings divide us.
I seriously vote to close this thread, anyone in agreement?
Hard agree with you and the others who've said this thread no longer serves any useful purpose. It's been super-enlightening by way of sorting the adults on this forum from the stupid kids/stunted man-children, but that's about it as far as I'm concerned. At the end of the day, if for example the guy who voiced Zarbon in the French dub (apologies to said French actor, I'm sure you're a decent person and give a lot to charity) was the focal point of something like this then the thread would have been either locked or ignored long ago for its tangential-at-best connection to Dragon Ball. It's actually kind of dragged the current forum community down for me seeing how some members have reacted to the topic.

(Not that the "old" community back when this forum was new-ish was objectively better or anything, but at least when I first joined I had the advantage of being A. young as balls and B. dumb as shit.)
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:25 am

The Tori-bot wrote:
theherodjl wrote:I've already made my opinion known on this topic but now I really think this thread should be locked or even deleted now.
Its gotten past the point of simply debating something non-DB related(I mean really, Kanzenshuu is not a courtroom or a support group) and is now a showcase on hostility between opposing sides to the point of personal judgement of one another's character. The vast majority of us don't really know each other or the exact nature as to how we form our opinions so we shouldn't be guessing that we know how one another are, as human beings, based on how we might feel about this situation. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that none of us came to Kanzenshuu to judge or be judged by other fans of the DB fandom and the way I see it, we're a community for DB and I think we should remain a community and not let real-world tribulations & misunderstandings divide us.
I seriously vote to close this thread, anyone in agreement?
Hard agree with you and the others who've said this thread no longer serves any useful purpose. It's been super-enlightening by way of sorting the adults on this forum from the stupid kids/stunted man-children, but that's about it as far as I'm concerned. At the end of the day, if for example the guy who voiced Zarbon in the French dub (apologies to said French actor, I'm sure you're a decent person and give a lot to charity) was the focal point of something like this then the thread would have been either locked or ignored long ago for its tangential-at-best connection to Dragon Ball. It's actually kind of dragged the current forum community down for me seeing how some members have reacted to the topic.

(Not that the "old" community back when this forum was new-ish was objectively better or anything, but at least when I first joined I had the advantage of being A. young as balls and B. dumb as shit.)
That just reinforces to me why this thread should have been locked a long time ago. Putting aside the fact that Vic will no longer be doing voice work for Funimation (including Broly) thus ending this drama’s connection to Dragon Ball/this community. To be blunt, this forum is historically been too immature to handle real topics like this before it got ugly. This thread got bad one page in.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by miguelnuva1 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:59 am

I still think the tone of the Vic defenders is important when lumping people together as I still have seen both sides attacking harsh to each other.

I personally feel Vic is guilty due to the stories and the length of acquisitions going back to 1989 but at the same time unless I'm wrong no one in this thread was there when the incidents went down.

As small and unrealistic as it may be these could be lies on Vic so I say try to debate peacefully.

Like I said before I don't believe anyone is lying just to get Vic fired, but I'm also not going to attack a peaceful debater that is still proVic as there are still good people and assholes on both sides.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:00 am

XanatosVanBadass wrote:
The Tori-bot wrote:
theherodjl wrote:I've already made my opinion known on this topic but now I really think this thread should be locked or even deleted now.
Its gotten past the point of simply debating something non-DB related(I mean really, Kanzenshuu is not a courtroom or a support group) and is now a showcase on hostility between opposing sides to the point of personal judgement of one another's character. The vast majority of us don't really know each other or the exact nature as to how we form our opinions so we shouldn't be guessing that we know how one another are, as human beings, based on how we might feel about this situation. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that none of us came to Kanzenshuu to judge or be judged by other fans of the DB fandom and the way I see it, we're a community for DB and I think we should remain a community and not let real-world tribulations & misunderstandings divide us.
I seriously vote to close this thread, anyone in agreement?
Hard agree with you and the others who've said this thread no longer serves any useful purpose. It's been super-enlightening by way of sorting the adults on this forum from the stupid kids/stunted man-children, but that's about it as far as I'm concerned. At the end of the day, if for example the guy who voiced Zarbon in the French dub (apologies to said French actor, I'm sure you're a decent person and give a lot to charity) was the focal point of something like this then the thread would have been either locked or ignored long ago for its tangential-at-best connection to Dragon Ball. It's actually kind of dragged the current forum community down for me seeing how some members have reacted to the topic.

(Not that the "old" community back when this forum was new-ish was objectively better or anything, but at least when I first joined I had the advantage of being A. young as balls and B. dumb as shit.)
That just reinforces to me why this thread should have been locked a long time ago. Putting aside the fact that Vic will no longer be doing voice work for Funimation (including Broly) thus ending this drama’s connection to Dragon Ball/this community. To be blunt, this forum is historically been too immature to handle real topics like this before it got ugly. This thread got bad one page in.
True that, if any of the flaming and blasting over the last 80+ pages is any indication. I believe this thread is well past whatever little usefulness it did have (however trivial of a connection to Dragon Ball it has) as it's devolved over time into mostly just political debates as well as personal sniping in some cases.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:05 am

I'm a little flabbergasted when people start saying things like "well it's ruined now that people brought politics into it" or any variation on that. Like, I actually don't know how to follow that up.

I don't feel the thread has outlived its usefulness in any way. This continues to be a developing story and we continue to see additional corroborating behavioral reports about a person whose last known recorded product for this franchise just wrapped up a theatrical run, is scheduled to come out on home video within the next two months (and is set to include bonus material featuring, among other actors, him: "Vic Mignogna Answers Your Questions"), and his specific character variation from this film is also scheduled to appear in a highly-prominent video game this year after having already appeared in another game recently.

The fallout as it directly relates to Dragon Ball is far from over, there are elements worth discussing, and they will likely be worth discussing for the foreseeable future.

As has been stated approximately seven hundred times, we will sit back and listen to whatever you want to say about your favorite replacement score. We'll genuinely hear you out. You have your space and platform to do so here, and no-one has any right to be screaming in your face over it. We will not bow down to the politeness police over these kinds of issues, however, so if you're upset that people aren't continuing their "yes, of course, you are entitled to express your denials on these matters and I will kowtow until the cows come home with every kind statement I can make"... sorry not sorry? If you're upset that people actually have firm opinions on things other than cartoons and aren't afraid to let them be known... I just don't know what to tell you.

At the end of the day, this is the shit that matters. Amongst some of the most jaw-dropping garbage last-stands in this thread, we have seen people come around on things. I'm encouraged by that.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:46 am

miguelnuva1 wrote:there are still good people... ...on both sides.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:52 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote:I still think the tone of the Vic defenders is important when lumping people together as I still have seen both sides attacking harsh to each other.

I personally feel Vic is guilty due to the stories and the length of acquisitions going back to 1989 but at the same time unless I'm wrong no one in this thread was there when the incidents went down.

As small and unrealistic as it may be these could be lies on Vic so I say try to debate peacefully.

Like I said before I don't believe anyone is lying just to get Vic fired, but I'm also not going to attack a peaceful debater that is still proVic as there are still good people and assholes on both sides.
Billions believe in God or in some aspect of it but do those billions of people have hard evidence that God exists apart from books (bibles), drawn images and written stories? I'm not saying I don't believe in God, I reckon there's obviously a higher power who created all of this but we don't know what or who made it. Scientists are good but they're not the answer for everything.

Now, this thread had over 80 pages and yet there's still no concrete proof that Vic Mignogna did what he's been accused of. As I've said, if he's proven guilty then he should be arrested if not then his image and reputation were destroyed by people who wanted his job and fame.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:55 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:Now, this thread had over 80 pages and yet there's still no concrete proof that Vic Mignogna did what he's been accused of.
How on earth are people like you acknowledging how long this discussion has been going on, presumably reading some/any of it, and are still saying these things?

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:59 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:if he's proven guilty then he should be arrested if not then his image and reputation were destroyed by people who wanted his job and fame.
Where's the evidence for THAT?!

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Shaddy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:05 pm

What, kbabz? Don't you know that if you want to get famous you need to anonymously lie about a b-list nobody groping people for fifteen years? That's how all the pros do it.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:25 pm

Shaddy wrote:What, kbabz? Don't you know that if you want to get famous you need to anonymously lie about a b-list nobody groping people for fifteen years? That's how all the pros do it.
B-List is being awfully charitable.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Shaddy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:27 pm

Pizza-list. Whatever, the point is it's really stupid.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:31 pm

Shaddy wrote:What, kbabz? Don't you know that if you want to get famous you need to anonymously lie about a b-list nobody groping people for fifteen years? That's how all the pros do it.
Now I know why John Lasseter fell out of the industry!

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by miguelnuva1 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:49 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote:
miguelnuva1 wrote:there are still good people... ...on both sides.
Image
To say that everyone that is defending Vic is a bad person is wrong despite how guilty he appears. It's our job to show the evidence and explain why Vic is guilty.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:25 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote:
To say that everyone that is defending Vic is a bad person is wrong despite how guilty he appears. It's our job to show the evidence and explain why Vic is guilty.
Not why I posted that picture.

Of course, if people don't understand why I posted that picture in response to particular snippet, that proves my point about a blinding lack of perspective/context going on in this thread better than I ever could on my own.
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