Vic Mignogna

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kunzait_83 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:15 pm

XanatosVanBadass wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:48 am
TKA wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:41 am
I absolutely agree that it is subjective.

But I think we can all agree that companies had to be keeping him around for a reason, despite the rumors and accusations.
Most likely due to his (bizarre) rabid fanbase. And even then most dub fans like these VAs because they voice the characters they like rather then any actual talent. I mean, Sean Schemmel is WORSHIPPED by the US Dragon Ball fanbase just because he’s the guy who got lucky enough to voice Goku in 1999.
Lets also not forget that Chris Sabat is not just lead voice director, but also the producer, and line producer, AND still voices a ridiculous amount of the cast. I'm sure that that's in NO way a coincidence whatsoever and his having so many voice roles - including a multitude of lead, prominent roles - is all 100% predicated ENTIRELY on his raw, searing, chameleon-like voice acting talent and versatility. :roll: :roll: :roll:

I mean look, I get that on some level things like acting ability are somewhat subjective and up to personal taste... but at a certain threshold, there's just no getting around the fact that there is SOME line in the sand where subjective taste stops and flat out impossible-to-ignore objective reality sets in and asserts itself.

The reality is, by most professional industry standards, the "legacy" voice cast for FUNi's various Dragon Ball dubs are, at a bare minimum, INCREDIBLY forced, awkward, and unnatural sounding behind the mic. And its NOT due to their previous inexperience at this stage, because they've now been doing this for over 20 fucking years: and plenty of them STILL have only shown, at best, MARGINAL, incremental polish to their still otherwise hammy, over-wrought, hopelessly inorganic "sounds like a 6 year old banging his action figures together on the playground" core approach to voicing these characters.

And yes, I most certainly include Mignogna in that assessment: he is in NO way a great deal better or more notable in his acting ability (or lack thereof) than the likes of Schemmel and co. Calling his Broli performance "a tough act to follow" is wildly, laughably, hilariously stupid and ridiculous on its face, and forces one to wonder "Just what exactly does BAD acting even sound like to you then?" when people hype him up as some sort of phenom of a VA.

Setting Mignogna's gross, awful, disgusting personal behavior TOTALLY 100% aside entirely: even on just the sheer merits of his voice acting ability alone, he doesn't even rise to the level of a mediocrity and performs Broli with the same "sub-D level kiddie 'pew pew!' schlock" grade of "Power Rangers-tier" acting as most of the rest of the FUNi cast. He's every bit as much of a cringing "sinking lower and lower in your chair as you watch" embarrassment to listen to as Sabat, Strait, Nadolny, Schemmel, etc.

The reality is that a lot of the reason for why he and the other legacy FUNi VAs have clung onto these roles for so long has absolutely NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with their talent and merits as actors. Instead all it largely boils down to sheer, raw nepotism (again, just look no further in the case of Sabat - one of the least talented and least charismatic behind the mic of the whole sorry lot - than his myriad of production credits behind the scenes for proof of this) as well as moreover a bizarrely rabid, devoted, loyal fanbase whose sole, primary metric for judging these voices is pure nostalgic sentimental attachment, and pretty much almost NOTHING else besides.

There is absolutely almost ZERO critical standards that go into the VAST overwhelming majority of the Dragon Ball dub fanbase's judgement and assessment of what they hear in this dub: it is almost 90% across the board "This is what I first heard and got used to when I was a small child, it is therefore untouchably unassailable and irreplaceable by default."

And its THAT rabid, cult-like devotion combined with behind the scenes nepotism that is the sum total explanation for why these complete and utter no-talents have clung onto these roles for so long. Merit and acting ability are absolute dead-last on the list... if they're even on the list at all.

I think that what a LOT of people in the dub fanbase totally fail to grasp (and incidentally this is a VERY similar widely-held fallacy in most political discourse) is the idea that "Tenure" is in NO WAY WHATSOEVER the same thing as "Iconic" or "Indispensable". Just because something has been a certain way for so long DOES NOT AT ALL MEAN that it has been that way for a good or valid reason that has earned it its long-lasting status. Sometimes even the most putrid of shit will harden, adhere, and stick around for years and years and years and years on without being cleaned or sanitized.

And no, before some smartass chimes in with this, this logic DOES NOT apply to someone like Nozawa, who actually DOES have the (very much demonstrable and self-evident) talent and ability to back up and earn her her long-lasting "icon" status: not just as Goku, but in a whole HOST of other roles, one of which is arguably even MORE of a "vital cultural icon" than Goku (when an actor has not one, but MULTIPLE roles that are considered "culturally important and influential", that's about the point where their success can certainly be seen as not at all a fluke).

Think of it this way: think about how often you've seen SO MANY fans who were originally exposed to Schemmel (or one of the other English Goku VAs) and were so used to him that they could in NO WAY see anyone else as Goku... until somewhere down the line, even if they first initially were put off by her, they eventually came to really appreciate and even prefer Nozawa. Think about how many fans have, in the grand scheme of things, been often won over by Nozawa away from Schemmel.

Now think about the REVERSE for a minute: how often have you come across or heard from Nozawa fans who were much later on eventually "won over" later by Schemmel? I'm sure its happened at least a FEW times here or there on RARE occasions (just by sheer law of averages)... but overall, broadly speaking (and I say this as someone who's been neck deep in this fanbase for WAY too long now: more than 25 years) that simply ISN'T a thing that happens very often. Almost EVER.

On a long enough timeline, the flow of fandom appreciation and love for Goku voices only ever usually seems to generally skew in ONE direction overall. And honestly, that ISN'T really a coincidence at all. And THAT'S why, unlike Mignogna, whenever Nozawa does inevitably leave us, THAT will leave an ACTUAL, genuine large-scale talent vacuum that's going to be legitimately difficult as all hell for someone to fill. THAT will be a REAL instance of "a tough act to follow".

The bottom line is: something being set in place a certain way for even a very long stretch of time doesn't ALWAYS necessarily mean that its been that way due to sound reasoning or merit. There's a VERY long societal history of people who "fail upward".

And with regards to Dragon Ball voice casts, there is overall a VERY clear distinction that starkly separates almost the entire Japanese cast - the overwhelming majority of whom are critically lauded, time-tested industry legends from a culture that overall prizes and values voice acting as a general art form much, much, MUCH higher than does Western culture - from that of FUNimation's: the overwhelming majority of whom were originally bums hired off the streets on the cheap, who in many key instances (like Schemmel and Strait) have since then often done VERY minimal notable work outside of Dragon Ball and other dubs of very similar Shonen anime titles (that the Western fan community typically regards with WAY too much undue reverence and attention overall), who in many cases retain their jobs due to company nepotism, and who overall are working within a voice acting field in a culture that generally regards voice acting as FAR more disposable, dumpy, and unimportant than does Japanese culture.

All of which is to say: Mignogna is not, and has NEVER been some "great, iconic vocal talent". He's a crappy, basement-level non-talent who was lucky enough to "fail upward" in a company that has a VERY long history of rewarding nepotism (and indeed was literally FOUNDED ON nepotism) and within a highly insular fanbase of awkward dorks who place a ridiculously undue level of reverence and adoration on random junk that just so happened to be placed in their general periphery as small, uncritically engaged children.

It makes the fact that all that totally undue, unearned, and unwarranted clout and power he was given as a result enabled him to abuse it with so many women (many of whom were underage no less) just all that much more horrible, senseless, and infuriating. And it further makes all the throngs of basement-dwelling Youtube numbnuts lining up to publicly embarrass themselves by bending over backwards into ridiculous contortions of pretzel logic to defend this utter nobody (who again, isn't even at all a gifted talent at what he does in the first place) from totally indefensibly scummy acts just that much more punchable across the board.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by omaro34 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:00 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:57 am
Metalwario64 wrote:
omaro34 wrote:A side note: What a corrupt society we live in. A society where we hold actors, entertainers, athletes more accountable for their actions than our damn politicians; the very people that govern us and we elect into office.
Yeah, there's audio proof of Trump's admitting to sexually assaulting women and being proud of it, and he was elected president!
There's proof of him being racist and calling for the execution of black men even when they were found found innocent, refusing to rent to blacks and committing tax evasion. He is also clearly in violation of the emoluments clause of the US Constitution. If Democrats weren't corrupt as fuck they'd be hammering away at these facts every single day in press conferences...but their donors specifically donated to them to be "republicans who don't have minorities" and that's why our country has increasingly been a major shit-hole since the 1980s when they started accepting corporate money in the wake of Reagan's election victory and Bill Clinton running and governing basically as a republican in 1992.

This to say nothing of the fact that Trump has committed numerous war crimes, like the last seven presidents before him. They should all be tried and prosecuted for war crimes and crimes against humanity and spend the rest of their lives in prison and in an America with an actual opposition party they actually would be.
Fionordequester wrote:
Metalwario64 wrote:Yeah, there's audio proof of Trump's admitting to sexually assaulting women and being proud of it, and he was elected president!
...to be fair, Hillary wasn't exactly a thrilling alternative, what with Benghazi and all. Don't know how she ever beat Bernie...
She cheated by funding the DNC secretly and having them rig the debates in her favor through debate times and giving her the questions ahead of the debates. This was proven through stolen emails but the Democrats are so desperate to save their own asses while also not actually admitting to their own failures as being anything but accomplices to the GOP that they decided to fabricate the bullshit Trump-Russia narrative that has gone absolutely nowhere over the course of three fucking years. Trump's clearly taken money from Russian oligarchs (just as he has from Israel and Saudi Arabia and fuck knows who else) but instead of actually going after him on substance they're going after him on shit they know they have no chance of winning on. It's fuckin' bullshit. This is to say nothing of the fact that Hilary Clinton was a war criminal herself, supported the Iraq War (and illegal, offensive war that caused a minimum of 200,000 civilian deaths all so oil companies and the military industrial complex could get rich as fuck).

Thank God there's so much energy behind Bernie Sanders this go around. He'll beat the ever-loving shit out of Trump in this election and we'll finally have an actual left-wing politician again.
Check out Andrew Yang he has some really interesting ideas
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by SaintEvolution » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:04 pm

I don't even know how this conversation came to the point of talk about republicans, democrats and Bernie Sanders. But okay.
Also, Bernie is the last thing America needs now. But anyway, this thread is supposed to be about Vic Mignogna, and not about american politicians and ideologies.
Kunzait_83 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:15 pm
All of which is to say: Mignogna is not, and has NEVER been some "great, iconic vocal talent". He's a crappy, basement-level non-talent who was lucky enough to "fail upward" in a company that has a VERY long history of rewarding nepotism (and indeed was literally FOUNDED ON nepotism) and within a highly insular fanbase of awkward dorks who place a ridiculously undue level of reverence and adoration on random junk that just so happened to be placed in their general periphery as small, uncritically engaged children.
It's understandable to dislike Mignogna due to his innapropriated behavior, but he is not a bad actor, and he was a real big name in the industry until few weeks ago. He was never like Steven Blum, but he had a consolidated name in the industry until these recent accusations, this is fact.

Having bad behavior has no relation with his acting capacities. Are two different things.

But, I agree his Broly was never a remarkable role. He is much better in other roles like Edward Elric, or even Burter in DBZKai.
Last edited by SaintEvolution on Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:13 pm

SaintEvolution wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:04 pm
He is much better in other roles like Edward Elric, or even Burter in DBZKai.
I'll be honest, Burter is a bit of a Mickey Mouse role, in that it's a funny voice that pretty much anyone can nail. Shouldn't be hard to find a future replacement in 15 years when they make a Ginyu Force movie, or cover the cutscene again in Xenoverse 3.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by SaintEvolution » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:14 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:13 pm
SaintEvolution wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:04 pm
He is much better in other roles like Edward Elric, or even Burter in DBZKai.
I'll be honest, Burter is a bit of a Mickey Mouse role, in that it's a funny voice that pretty much anyone can nail. Shouldn't be hard to find a future replacement in 15 years when they make a Ginyu Force movie, or cover the cutscene again in Xenoverse 3.
I agree, just used it as example of a role better dubbed than Broly.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:00 pm

SaintEvolution wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:04 pm


It's understandable to dislike Mignogna due to his innapropriated behavior, but he is not a bad actor, and
He’s not a bad actor per se but he also wasn’t so good that losing him as an actor and getting his roles redubbed feel like a big loss. Especially in regards to his role as Broly which is his most relevant role in regards to Dragon Ball

.
Having bad behavior has no relation with his acting capacities. Are two different things.
Nobody even suggested otherwise.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:12 pm

SaintEvolution wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:04 pm
I don't even know how this conversation came to the point of talk about republicans, democrats and Bernie Sanders. But okay.
Also, Bernie is the last thing America needs now. But anyway, this thread is supposed to be about Vic Mignogna, and not about american politicians and ideologies.
Kunzait_83 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:15 pm
All of which is to say: Mignogna is not, and has NEVER been some "great, iconic vocal talent". He's a crappy, basement-level non-talent who was lucky enough to "fail upward" in a company that has a VERY long history of rewarding nepotism (and indeed was literally FOUNDED ON nepotism) and within a highly insular fanbase of awkward dorks who place a ridiculously undue level of reverence and adoration on random junk that just so happened to be placed in their general periphery as small, uncritically engaged children.
It's understandable to dislike Mignogna due to his innapropriated behavior, but he is not a bad actor, and he was a real big name in the industry until few weeks ago. He was never like Steven Blum, but he had a consolidated name in the industry until these recent accusations, this is fact.

Having bad behavior has no relation with his acting capacities. Are two different things.

But, I agree his Broly was never a remarkable role. He is much better in other roles like Edward Elric, or even Burter in DBZKai.
I think you're overblowing how big Mignogna is. He's just a voice actor. Voice actors aren't big names. They're just people who do silly voices for kiddie shows and nothing more. Voice actors are only really known by people who are big fans of cartoons, video games and anime. Even if Steve Blum is a "bigger" name in the voice acting industry than Mignogna, he too is just a random nobody who happens to do voices for cartoons, anime and video games.

If you ask someone who knows who Tom Cruise is, they'll know who he is, but if you ask that person if they know who Mignogna is, you'd be met with a: "Who's Vic Mignogna?"

Hell, I believe Samuel L. Jackson told Howard Stern in an interview about Frank Welker being the highest-grossing actor, and he referred him as "someone called Frank Welker" or "a guy named Frank Welker." Hardly a guy well known in Hollywood.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by SpiritBombTriumphant » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:08 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:09 am
ringworm128 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:00 am
Not to play moderator; but is there any reason for this thread to still be going? It's turned into a complete shit show and you're all not even talking about Vic Mignogna (who's not even involved with Dragon Ball now) anymore. I've seen way tamer threads get locked on this forum.
Mike has said that he's keeping this thread open because it's a good thread and important for the community.
That's really surprising. I got shadowbanned from r/dbz for mentioning I didn't want to support Funimation anymore, and yet here discussing the pros and cons of the entire scandal is encouraged.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kakarot » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:37 pm

So there's a couple dozen women who've made allegations against Mr. Mignogna. The sheer number of alleged victims almost immediately confirms he's guilty and been doing this stuff for a while, not to mention the people's he worked with confirming it as well. Yet he still had the confidence to pursue this situation in the court of law. I'm no law expert, but if he loses what happens then? And what happens if he wins?

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:46 pm

Since we’re apparently now discussing Vic Mignogna’s acting ability, I’ll just say that in terms of his performance as Broly, I don’t see what exactly is so bad about it. Broly has never been an especially complex character, but even then, I think Mignogna did fine in the role. I have no clue what kinds of expectations people have for a character like Broly.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by SaintEvolution » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:54 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:12 pm
I think you're overblowing how big Mignogna is. He's just a voice actor. Voice actors aren't big names. They're just people who do silly voices for kiddie shows and nothing more. Voice actors are only really known by people who are big fans of cartoons, video games and anime. Even if Steve Blum is a "bigger" name in the voice acting industry than Mignogna, he too is just a random nobody who happens to do voices for cartoons, anime and video games.

If you ask someone who knows who Tom Cruise is, they'll know who he is, but if you ask that person if they know who Mignogna is, you'd be met with a: "Who's Vic Mignogna?"

Hell, I believe Samuel L. Jackson told Howard Stern in an interview about Frank Welker being the highest-grossing actor, and he referred him as "someone called Frank Welker" or "a guy named Frank Welker." Hardly a guy well known in Hollywood.
I'm talking about it on voice actors's standarts. He was a great name for the industry of voice actors. But of course he is lower than Tom Cruise or Samuel L. Jackson in therms of fame, voice actors are less famous than stage actors who appears in big hollywood movies, this is a fact.

But on the american industry of voice acting, Mignogna was a considerable name. Not the biggest, but it had his own space.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:57 pm

SaintEvolution wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:54 pm
.

But on the american industry of voice acting, Mignogna was a considerable name. Not the biggest, but it had his own space.
He was big in terms of anime dub voice acting a niche of a niche.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:03 pm

SaintEvolution wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:54 pm
8000 Saiyan wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:12 pm
I think you're overblowing how big Mignogna is. He's just a voice actor. Voice actors aren't big names. They're just people who do silly voices for kiddie shows and nothing more. Voice actors are only really known by people who are big fans of cartoons, video games and anime. Even if Steve Blum is a "bigger" name in the voice acting industry than Mignogna, he too is just a random nobody who happens to do voices for cartoons, anime and video games.

If you ask someone who knows who Tom Cruise is, they'll know who he is, but if you ask that person if they know who Mignogna is, you'd be met with a: "Who's Vic Mignogna?"

Hell, I believe Samuel L. Jackson told Howard Stern in an interview about Frank Welker being the highest-grossing actor, and he referred him as "someone called Frank Welker" or "a guy named Frank Welker." Hardly a guy well known in Hollywood.
I'm talking about it on voice actors's standarts. He was a great name for the industry of voice actors. But of course he is lower than Tom Cruise or Samuel L. Jackson in therms of fame, voice actors are less famous than stage actors who appears in big hollywood movies, this is a fact.

But on the american industry of voice acting, Mignogna was a considerable name. Not the biggest, but it had his own space.
I mean, I don’t watch much anime, so I’m not really familiar with his roles outside of Dragon Ball, but I knew he was big as far as anime VAs are concerned solely based on the fact that he always seemed to have a pretty big prescence at fan conventions.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kokonoe » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:34 pm

The view that the only reason people enjoy Schemmel is because he was in the right place at the right time and not for his sound and skill is a very silly and immature one that I can't take seriously.

He's a great Goku, in my opinion THE Goku. Feel free to disagree there, but he deserves all the praise he gets from fans for the role just like Nozawa receives.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:47 pm

The redub of Megazone 23 is probably the best thing that Vic has been in which is not saying much in my opinion.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:57 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:15 pm
Vic Mignogna's acting sucks for this and that reason (paraphrasing a little, but come on; you know you write a lot...)
As long as we're on a roll with defending actors, I also disagree with this. Vic Mignogna was perfectly fine, even in the early days. And in MODERN days? His acting was actually pretty great!

I mean, you can disagree if you like. Just, trash talking his acting isn't helping the "we have a personal vendetta against the man" narrative.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:06 am

I prefer Nozawa, but being so harsh on Schemmel is just uncalled for. He does a fine job.

As for Vic, the role of Broly is mostly just screaming so there's really not much to say about how he does it. I've also only watched a few episodes of the dubbed FMA anime (the old one, back when it was on Adult Swim in the mid-2000s). I don't know if he did the voice of Edward in that one, but if he did, I guess he was okay, from what I remember.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:49 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:06 am
I prefer Nozawa, but being so harsh on Schemmel is just uncalled for. He does a fine job.

As for Vic, the role of Broly is mostly just screaming so there's really not much to say about how he does it. I've also only watched a few episodes of the dubbed FMA anime (the old one, back when it was on Adult Swim in the mid-2000s). I don't know if he did the voice of Edward in that one, but if he did, I guess he was okay, from what I remember.
He DID play Edward in the 2003 FMA and reprised for the FMA Brotherhood show.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kataphrut » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:10 am

The new movie was the first time I ever really enjoyed Vic's Broly. His Super Saiyan transformation was genuinely well done, capturing the appropriate level of raw anguish.

That being said, I think he was only good because the better material and direction elevated him. Any replacement actor could do at least an equally fine job with it, which is what I expect to see when we finally learn who that is. There may be some teething problems- Daman Mills' Freeza took some time to nail- but I wouldn't worry. Even if his latest (and ONLY his latest if you ask me) take on Broly was good, it isn't irreplaceable.

I just hope the replacement actor won't have to deal with too much bullying from the internet saddo brigade when they finally get announced. Although call it a hunch, but I think this guy won't get nearly as much hate as Monica Rial and Jamie Marchi have been getting and are continuing to get. Can't think why...

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:33 am

Kataphrut wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:10 am
I just hope the replacement actor won't have to deal with too much bullying from the internet saddo brigade when they finally get announced. Although call it a hunch, but I think this guy won't get nearly as much hate as Monica Rial and Jamie Marchi have been getting and are continuing to get. Can't think why...
Well, he'll be the new guy. He won't have any of the baggage associated with other folks, he'll just be the guy who came in to fill Vic Mignogna's shoes.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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