Vic Mignogna

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MozillaVulpix
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by MozillaVulpix » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:33 am

If only fandoms had their own de-radicalization programs...
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kunzait_83 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:59 am

MozillaVulpix wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:33 am
If only fandoms had their own de-radicalization programs...
Not a joke: that's probably not terribly far from something that might just actually/potentially need to come to fruition, to one extent or another, at some point down the road when all's said and done. The 2010s have seen geek culture get hit HARD, harder than ever, by the infiltration of radical far right political extremists co-opting a more than significant portion of it.

And geek subculture is hardly alone: there's been a broader, overall spike in the activity and proliferation of hate groups and radical far right extremism within just the past few years alone. So the infiltration of online nerd fandoms like this one by radical hate groups is just one single part of a MUCH broader, societal-wide outgrowth of fringe extremism - which overwhelmingly skews rightward - becoming increasingly normalized.

A lot of this damage can even be traced back, at least in part, to the collapse of reliable mainstream news sources (which is a problem that, at least in U.S. terms, literally goes back more than 30 years now at least) and the impact and reverberations of this mass mainstream acceptance and normalization of extremist propaganda skews far and deep into almost every corner of the fabric of U.S. society: so theoretically something at least resembling some sort of mass, nationwide "cult deprogramming" effort - something which would be a long and arduous, but probably ultimately necessary, societal undertaking - may well just possibly be something that's going to have to come about sometime in the future.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:31 am

Alright, so there's a new story going around; this time with some complaints with substance behind them.

Vic Mignogna GoFundMe targeted! KickVic hunting down personal info!

Now, the first claim is substantiated by a message board where folks put the link to it, and talked about reporting it (saying that Nick Rekieta is running a scam). The second however...is where things get dicey.

I haven't been able to find all of the relevant tweets proving what I'm about to say... But after interviewing Jessika Guida, I can safely conclude that this was NOT a #KickVic attack. In fact, it had nothing to do with Vic Mignogna at all; it was just a bunch of Twitter drama, with someone who happened to be part of the #IStandWithVic crowd.

The relevant conversation is here (from top to bottom)...

Image

Now it's just a matter of finding where that whole conversation is, so I can screen grab that as well. Yet more stuff to add to the doc, and hopefully dispel some of the lies surrounding this whole thing.

Anyone know how to navigate Twitter better than I do? I'll be honest; trying to find it has been like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:52 am

I hope Jessica studies school so she learns the proper use of their/there/they're, and apostrophes. Okay, cheap shot over, good to see she's being reasonable on the subject.
Kunzait_83 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:43 am
the idea that racism and sexism are long-settled issues that are no longer a real problem
Fun fact: due to naivety and not paying attention, I honestly thought that in my teenage years. Hahaha, NOPE. Hard nope on that one.

Side-bar thought: Is it hypocritical of us to condemn Vic whilst still liking a product that is known for its abject and often outright disgusting treatment of sexual harassment?

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:58 am

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:52 am
Side-bar thought: Is it hypocritical of us to condemn Vic whilst still liking a product that is known for its abject and often outright disgusting treatment of sexual harassment?
Ehhh... We like it in-spite of it's disgusting treatment of sexual harassment, not because of it. I mean, we can still think fondly of our Founding Fathers without liking everything they did.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kunzait_83 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:01 am

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:52 am
Side-bar thought: Is it hypocritical of us to condemn Vic whilst still liking a product that is known for its abject and often outright disgusting treatment of sexual harassment?
I'd hardly say that Dragon Ball is in any way mainly or primarily known for its horrible treatment of sexual harassment. It encompasses a single running gag surrounding one specific character, and a great number of fans have LONG expressed their disgust with it (even back during the early/mid 90s pre-dub years, it wasn't especially hard to find people saying things about the Muten Roshi sexual harasser gag that roughly amounted to "Ew. This is kinda not cool guys." - though in fairness, even then there were still some folks who'd also defend it :sick: ).

If this running gag were THE key central focus of the series, that'd be one thing: but its not. Its a VERY incredibly minor part of it in the grand scheme of things, one that PLENTY of fans have noted their distaste for, and its absence from the series would in NO way impact anything that is recognizably and importantly key to DB being DB when all's said and done.

If anything, both the series overall and Muten Roshi as a character would certainly benefit greatly from the joke being retired for good: that Super chose to instead double down on it is certainly a display of IMMENSE tone-deafness on both Toriyama and the Dragon Room's part. That's not an argument in favor of censorship of the pre-existing material mind you: just that if DB is going to continue on into the future (as appears to be the case now), then this is certainly something that it SHOULD seek to correct and improve on going forward.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:36 am

Huh... Well, Nick just showed up on the Twitter thread I'm having with Jessika Guida. So if anyone here knowledgable on law feels like showing up, feel free. Not sure how long he's gonna stick around...

https://twitter.com/PleiadesGurl96
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Shaddy » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:46 am

Thing is, if you literally did remove the sexual assault from Roshi, you wouldn't necessarily lose the aspect of his personality it was meant to convey. Because he's still the guy who reads porn everywhere from on his front yard to at the dinner table, spends all afternoon staring at exercise videos with his cornea pressed against the TV screen and constantly talks about his harem fantasies (seriously, how can one sit that close to the screen and still tell what they're looking at?).

Not that I'm condoning reading porn at the dinner table of course. Most people eat in front of a TV nowadays for a reason.

It's just. Now he's not a criminal who constantly violates the female cast of the show. And that makes a big difference. That would make...pretty much anyone way more likeable? Hell. It makes him more relatable for plenty of the people on this forum. We have an entire thread dedicated to people jerking off to the female cast of this show (which also manages to feel childish by not actually being wholly NSFW, but I digress). I can root for a hopelessly perverted old loser in a fight. Rooting for a sex offender is a bit more difficult.

That said, this is all stated with the assumption that Toriyama did not intend to show being sexually assaulted by an old man as harmless or playful. I'd really like to think he didn't. Obviously Lady Red still exists though, so what do I know.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kokonoe » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:54 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:53 pm
Kokonoe wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:46 pm
I'm just going to be honest. As long as "SJW" is allowed to be used freely here unironically then this place is not a place I can really feel comfortable with.
I mean... I dunno what to tell you. There DOES in fact exist a subset of people in the political landscape who DO actual "boy who cried wolf" outrage over bullshit nonsense under the pretense that its somehow "racist". That IS a real thing. Now is it an ACTUAL "serious problem" that is somehow this "massive threat to free speech in America"? Of fucking COURSE its not, obviously. It takes a TITANIC level of ignorance, gullibility, and outright stupidity to fall for that particular gaslight.

Nonetheless though.... there ARE unfortunately a LOT of deeply ignorant, deeply gullible, and deeply stupid people on the internet, and have been for literally decades now (see: The Bubble we were talking about a few pages ago), and the far right wing have successfully demonized what is effectively maybe a small couple thousand or so college campus activists across the United States who take genuinely real, incredibly serious social issues (racism, misogyny, class disparity, hate crimes, etc) and trivialize them by making the hyper-nitpicking of dumb Hollywood movies and video games the sum total of their "activism" and lobbing the charge of "racist" and "sexist" even at things that are honestly, genuinely NOT really deserving of those labels (or at a bare minimum, not to the point where they're in ANY WAY worth making them the frontline issues of your activism) and parlayed them into being THE critical political issue of our time in the minds of COUNTLESS dumbass ignorant online dorks who's entire worldview growing up was largely cultivated from bad kids' media and dense RPGs.

In practice, what the kinds of people that the term SJW is describing (overzealous college campus activists who's basic understandings of key issues might be sound, but who's frontline priorities and tactics are badly askew and not well thought through) have basically done is made themselves into such living caricatures that they've acted as the most effective strawmen for far right wing (and outright fascist) hate groups to utilize as props for their own propaganda and thus as effective tools to indoctrinate an entire SWATH of heavily online people (very often, not not necessarily exclusively, white males in their teens and 20s) who most frequent geek and nerd media spaces and are often INCREDIBLY sheltered and insulated from the realities of the outside world.

Obviously the term SJW has largely and overwhelmingly been used in service of that strawman and in service of that mass indoctrination of young, sheltered millennial suburban nerds into actual, literal "Exterminate all the Gays/Black/Jews" Neo Nazis: but that SJW strawman, bullshit as it overall certainly is, DOES have at least a TOE dipped in a certain reality. Granted, the actual real world impact of those people whom it describes is in reality TOTALLY inconsequential, to the point of being outright laughable: but they DO exist, and their existence IS being used as a political tool by online extremists to bolster their (lunatic and bullshit) arguments and indoctrinate MORE young, sheltered, gullible suckers into their ranks.

And yes: there are indeed various users on this very forum right now who are UNQUESTIONABLY among those very gullible suckers who've fallen for the obvious con of this type of propaganda. Lets not let anyone kid themselves: the people whom have proven some of the most susceptible and fertile to this particular grift have indeed been young and (usually, but again not necessarily ALWAYS) white male middle or upper middle-class suburban Otaku, Weaboos, and gamers who populate fandoms and forums exactly and precisely like this one here.

Once again: the idea that Social Justice Warriors - in the sense of the stereotype of "stuck up, humorless, elitist liberal college students with dyed hair who promote outright misandry and are so gung-ho about fighting against racism that they'll go as far as trying to shame ALL white men collectively just for being white men and existing" - are either THE single biggest problem facing the world today (or even just A significant problem facing the world today AT ALL) or that they even encompass ANY kind of a majority, much less the ENTIRETY of, the left of the current political spectrum - is a TOTAL and outright OBVIOUS fucking lie that is deliberately manufactured and used by actual racist hate groups as their latest scam tactic to indoctrinate young people into their ranks.

Does that lie also mean that those kinds of people DON'T EXIST AT ALL? Of course it doesn't. Those kinds of over-the-top, overzealous, over-eager college campus activists who have their hearts generally in the right place and on the right general issues, but who's sense of priorities and tactics are COMPLETELY fucking wrong, immature, and dumb as shit... not only do they exist, but guess what guys? They've ALWAYS existed since even decades before I was fucking born. SJW's have ALWAYS been around: not under that name obviously, but the very same type of person has ALWAYS been a staple of NUMEROUS college campuses across North America for almost as long as college campuses have been around.

Part of the current bullshit right wing narrative about SJWs is that they're somehow this new and uniquely fresh and different phenomenon that started among millennials in the social media era. That, like with so much else from these right wing groups, is COMPLETELY untrue and antithetical to history and reality.

Even speaking from my own personal experience: I've lived most of my life not too terribly far away from Yale, one of THE most elite and prestige colleges in all of North America and the world, as well as its surrounding college community. Literally for as long as I've been alive, I've lived among and interacted DAILY with Yale students going back 30 fucking years ago now: and you bet that a VAST, sizable chunk of those people have, in various ways and to various extremes, totally and unquestionably fit the SJW archetype to the letter.

Even though the term SJW was obviously not a thing when I was a kid growing up, the concept and the type of person that it describes ABSOLUTELY was: and it was SO old hat and SO well known to the average person that even by the time I was a very little kid that it had long been a pop cultural punch line. One that Hollywood was even making mainstream movies satirizing.

What the far right in the current era have taken advantage of is The Bubble we talked about earlier: the INSANE amount of sheltering and insulation that WAY too many young millennial (and very often suburban) dudes were raised with (and indeed often take with them into adulthood) in order to convince them that college campus activists who are kind of silly, naive, immature, and stupid about the manner in how they go about their activism is somehow this "radically new and scarily threatening" phenomenon that is endangering democracy and freedom of speech in American (and even Western) society as a whole.

When in reality: the ONLY thing that has changed about the stereotypical SJW (besides the proliferation of SJW itself as a term used to describe them) is that they now have social media in which to go through that awkward, embarrassing, and cringe-inducing phase of their late teens/early 20s in front of the entire world: including perhaps parts of the country that don't or never had a college community nearby them and have thus perhaps never been personally exposed firsthand to what is and always has been ultimately a COMPLETELY normal and altogether harmless (if fairly irritating and cringy) part of many people's growing up and path towards maturity.

Now using overzealous college campus activists as a handy strawman in which to disingenuously oversimplify and outright lie about ALL left political ideas is NOT a new tactic for the far right: they've been pulling that kind of crap since at least the 1960s, and certainly throughout the 1980s and 90s when I was growing up and getting into politics myself. Of course back then (at least in the 80s and 90s anyway), not very many people in the mainstream public discourse were generally buying it: because it was SUCH an obviously and demonstrably stupid, asinine argument to make that anyone with two eyes to see in front of them and two brain cells to run together could easily see right past it.

What IS new to this political era we're in now however is the right wing having such a MASSIVE crop of fresh, fertile, media-sheltered young dudes (and indeed, in many cases do indeed tend to be somewhere on the spectrum, which DOES actually play a role in things) with rooms covered wall to wall in anime and video game paraphernalia, and who in large part have before recently mostly given almost ZERO serious attention or thought to real world politics, modern history, and important events, in which to act as the kind of blank slate suckers and empty-headed vessels in which to fill with their bogus, ahistorical nonsense and alternate-reality reading of modern events.

This is, at least partly, how a once largely apolitical geek-media sphere was able to so easily - and just within the past decade and change - become radicalized and conned into buying wholesale into some of the oldest and most thoroughly debunked far right fascist/racist/misogynistic conspiracy woo and outright deranged, lunatic fringe wacko fantasies of the KKK, the John Birch Society, and Neo Nazi groups.

All of which is to say: do I personally like the term SJW? Absolutely not, I don't: for one, because, as I explained pages ago, even from an etymological standpoint its massively idiotic and wrong (social justice is a bad thing that people SHOULD NOT be fighting for because....?). And secondly, because yes, the term and concept has been so effectively and thoroughly abused to help more or less basically outright BRAINWASH an entire sizable subset of the current generation of young people into vociferously believing in and actively supporting (and sometimes do outright physical real world violence and terrorism in the name of) outright Neo Nazi and Neo Fascist agendas that are pure, capitol E Evil and INCREDIBLY dangerous and harmful to the lives of MILLIONS.

However: like it or not, the type of person that the term SJW is used to describe DOES technically exist. And while their existence, in and of itself, is in NO way any kind of genuine, serious problem or threat to anyone anywhere (at worst they're just a pain in the ass for their college's faculty to deal with: hardly life-threatening stuff here), their existence and this newest term to describe them have unfortunately been an INSTRUMENTAL part of the current day far right fascist movement's overall propaganda and a key starting point in radicalizing and indoctrinating fresh, young, and deeply naive recruits into their insane cult of a movement.

So sadly, much as many of us may hate it, there really ISN'T any getting around just USING the term in these kinds of discussions. What ultimately matters though is HOW you're using it and WHAT exactly you're using it to describe. That to me makes ALL the difference in the world.
While although I appreciate the effort applied to your post, all this term does is undermine left views. It has no business being used in any form and further usage and normalizing of the term strengthens the term to be used by the right and alt-right and make our pleas for social justice seem foolish to centrists.

It is no different than the term Feminazi and I see it purely as derogatory.

I honestly would like to know how VegettoEX feels about that being used here cause the wide spread of it is, once again, making me uncomfortable.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kinokima » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:03 am

As for Deradilicization of the far right

https://newrepublic.com/article/152675/ ... efunded-it


Yes this whole thing is much larger than just fandom. It’s certainly a lot larger than just Dragon Ball.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:38 am

Shaddy wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:46 am
Thing is, if you literally did remove the sexual assault from Roshi, you wouldn't necessarily lose the aspect of his personality it was meant to convey. Because he's still the guy who reads porn everywhere from on his front yard to at the dinner table, spends all afternoon staring at exercise videos with his cornea pressed against the TV screen and constantly talks about his harem fantasies (seriously, how can one sit that close to the screen and still tell what they're looking at?).

Not that I'm condoning reading porn at the dinner table of course. Most people eat in front of a TV nowadays for a reason.

It's just. Now he's not a criminal who constantly violates the female cast of the show. And that makes a big difference. That would make...pretty much anyone way more likeable? Hell. It makes him more relatable for plenty of the people on this forum. We have an entire thread dedicated to people jerking off to the female cast of this show (which also manages to feel childish by not actually being wholly NSFW, but I digress). I can root for a hopelessly perverted old loser in a fight. Rooting for a sex offender is a bit more difficult.

That said, this is all stated with the assumption that Toriyama did not intend to show being sexually assaulted by an old man as harmless or playful. I'd really like to think he didn't. Obviously Lady Red still exists though, so what do I know.
Agreed, Roshi loses nothing by removing his sexual advances. Ironically, I think this is one area in which Funimation made it better by toning it down to searching for a young lady to spend time with. It's almost sympathetic when you think about how lonely he must be on that tiny island, and IMO so long as it's consensual and that jazz, it can pass to some degree.

I also agree that while it's always awkward, Roshi looking at porn magazines is better because, let's face it, that's what they're there for in the first place. Oogling exercise videos is a bit worse, but at least his objectification goes only as far as the TV screen. It's when he tries to grope Bulma in public, on a plane, at his house, wherever that it gets hard to justify why that aspect of the character is there. I mean, I get it, the joke is that he's a wise old master of martial arts who has an extreme vice. But we get that WITHOUT the groping or asking to see Bulma's panties being there, so it just comes off as excessively redundant. I mean, we don't need to have every wise old speech to Tien be offset with "HeeeeEEEEeeeeey, Bulma!" scene just to remind us of his character balance.

(I also sort of have this problem with the very early sexual stuff regarding Goku and Bulma and Goku having to pat people to figure out their gender, but that's a bit more subjective and it's not relevant anymore).
Kokonoe wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:54 am
[Stuff]
Hey Kokonoe, could you not quote the entirety of Kunzait's post? It took up two whole screens I had to scroll through.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kunzait_83 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:44 am

Kokonoe wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:54 am
While although I appreciate the effort applied to your post, all this term does is undermine left views. It has no business being used in any form and further usage and normalizing of the term strengthens the term to be used by the right and alt-right and make our pleas for social justice seem foolish to centrists.

It is no different than the term Feminazi and I see it purely as derogatory.
I'm by all means 1000% in favor of doing everything possible to NOT lend undue legitimacy to the alt-right's absurd and batshit lunatic framing of social justice issues, absolutely.

The best possible thing here would be for a different term entirely to be coined and come into wider/common use to describe the individuals for whom the basic stereotype of an "SJW" (over-the-top, ultra-sensitive, humorless college campus activists who are massively hair-trigger on calling even the most petty and innocuous of social faux-pas as hideously racist/sexist) actually legitimately applies to.

Since those individuals as I said, while their actions and existence is ultimately completely harmless (if irritating) by themselves, they've become so thoroughly and effectively used as a political tool and cudgel for insane far right propaganda and online indoctrination of alienated and socially insulated young men (and that online indoctrination in and of itself has well long-since become a MASSIVELY important political and social issue that warrants a whole TON of serious discussion), that you at this point kind of HAVE to talk about them or reference them to SOME degree, and thus you have to call them SOMETHING: preferably something that's just as efficient as "SJW" in acting as a quick, simple, easy to recognize shorthand that isn't cumbersomely clunky.

Absolutely agreed though that they should NOT be discussed within LIGHTYEARS of the framework set up around them by the alt-right and Redpill communities: a framework which is completely wrong and divorced from reality, not to mention is laughably ridiculous and idiotic on its face.
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:53 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:44 am
The best possible thing here would be for a different term entirely to be coined and come into wider/common use to describe the individuals for whom the basic stereotype of an "SJW" (over-the-top, ultra-sensitive, humorless college campus activists who are massively hair-trigger on calling even the most petty and innocuous of social faux-pas as hideously racist/sexist) actually legitimately applies to.
How about "Crybully"? "Tumblrina"? Those're some funny words I found online :lol: !
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kunzait_83 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:15 am

I should also add the important point that hardly anywhere near close to ALL or even MOST college campus activists in any way fit the description that "SJW" is meant to apply to. There are an absolutely VAST number of college campus activists, the sizable majority of them overall I would say, who are INCREDIBLY level-headed, brilliantly smart, and don't in ANY WAY trivialize the important issues that they care about by hyper-focusing on pedantic word-policing and pop cultural nitpickery.

Just because there are SOME people among their number who do indeed fit the SJW cliche (and thus make for effective Youtube & 4chan memes and strawmen to act as props in the alt-right and alt-lite's brainwashing narrative) in NO way means that college campus activism is largely rife with their specific ilk.

The reality on most college campuses is far, FAR from that, and the idea that most college campus activism either largely or entirely consists of vapid, vacuous nonsense like feminist study groups over-analyzing the gender dynamics of The Smurfs or whatnot is, in and of itself, part of the bullshit right wing narrative exaggerating the severity of these sorts of people as a "social ill", which they're anything but: again, they're little more than a bothersome headache for their campus faculty to deal with at the absolute worst.

Again, this kind of absurd "Everything and everyone ever are all racist and sexist" behavior among certain subsets of campus activists DOES certainly exist (I mean, those 4chan memes aren't 100% completely invented from wholecloth): but if you think that such people, who in reality are little more than a minor irritant in their local college communities, somehow represent not only the ENTIRETY (or even the majority) of left wing thought and activism, but are also somehow "the single greatest threat to freedom and democracy the world is currently facing" largely because a few video game publishers have now decided "You know what? Maybe not EVERY female character in this game NEEDS to look like a Penthouse centerfold." - then you are the textbook definition of a gullible stooge and a useful idiot for various far right political interests who are simply using your own grotesque ignorance of the world to purposefully misdirect all of your pent-up frustrations for their own personal gain.
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:29 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:16 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:53 am
Kunzait_83 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:44 am
The best possible thing here would be for a different term entirely to be coined and come into wider/common use to describe the individuals for whom the basic stereotype of an "SJW" (over-the-top, ultra-sensitive, humorless college campus activists who are massively hair-trigger on calling even the most petty and innocuous of social faux-pas as hideously racist/sexist) actually legitimately applies to.
How about "Crybully"? "Tumblrina"? Those're some funny words I found online :lol: !
I once heard someone refer to them as FOCHs (Short for "Fuck Off Cishet", because he coined the term after someone who said those words as their only reply to someone).
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by MozillaVulpix » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:38 am

You know what's crazy? All of this drama (although not the underlying politics that caused it) could be resolved for Kamehacon if Vic just voluntarily dropped out. He could have done what Monica is doing, and doing meet-ups in another location. That way, no one would have to boycott Kamehacon, and the extreme Vic supporters can be separated from the people who aren't comfortable around him.

Of course, there would still be an issue of...KickVic people going to that location to protest, or the fact Vic could potentially get back on his bull without any detractors to watch him, but it still sounds way better than the alternative.

But no, the guy had to be greedy and ruin the overall experience for so many fans.
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kinokima » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:42 am

MozillaVulpix wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:38 am
You know what's crazy? All of this drama (although not the underlying politics that caused it) could be resolved for Kamehacon if Vic just voluntarily dropped out. He could have done what Monica is doing, and doing meet-ups in another location. That way, no one would have to boycott Kamehacon, and the extreme Vic supporters can be separated from the people who aren't comfortable around him.

Of course, there would still be an issue of...KickVic people going to that location to protest, or the fact Vic could potentially get back on his bull without any detractors to watch him, but it still sounds way better than the alternative.

But no, the guy had to be greedy and ruin the overall experience for so many fans.
Exactly he did this on purpose. He doesn’t care about Dragon Ball or the fans. Vic is not an idiot he knew this move would cause a major controversy. And that is exactly why he did it.


He is hurting the convention and the fandom by doing this.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by BlueChi » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:18 am

Kinokima wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:42 am
Exactly he did this on purpose. He doesn’t care about Dragon Ball or the fans. Vic is not an idiot he knew this move would cause a major controversy. And that is exactly why he did it.
He is hurting the convention and the fandom by doing this.
Pretty much this. He had to know this would set the fanbase ablaze and he might be hoping to provoke his accusers into doing something *insanely* stupid like trying to sabotage the convention (which they kinda might be already doing by dropping out, tho it's understandable) or worse, outright attack him. Either way, he gets nice PR if someone does something to him. Sucks that he's using the fans and the franchise itself for that purpose.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:50 am

Video games don't make you into a murderer, ergo neither does a cartoon make you a rapist. That being said, we should demand the restoration of wages and other benefits so that society might be able to spend more time in leisure so as to reduce strain on the mind and body.
MozillaVulpix wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:38 am
You know what's crazy? All of this drama (although not the underlying politics that caused it) could be resolved for Kamehacon if Vic just voluntarily dropped out. He could have done what Monica is doing, and doing meet-ups in another location. That way, no one would have to boycott Kamehacon, and the extreme Vic supporters can be separated from the people who aren't comfortable around him.

Of course, there would still be an issue of...KickVic people going to that location to protest, or the fact Vic could potentially get back on his bull without any detractors to watch him, but it still sounds way better than the alternative.

But no, the guy had to be greedy and ruin the overall experience for so many fans.
Hence further proof that he is not an honest actor here: he knows he is in the wrong and seeks only to rub it in the faces of #KickVic. The asshole.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by BlueBasilisk » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:46 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:50 am
Hence further proof that he is not an honest actor here: he knows he is in the wrong and seeks only to rub it in the faces of #KickVic. The asshole.
It's difficult to see this as any kind of long-term victory for him. Kamehacon has done significant damage to its own reputation for their underhanded handling of the situation while Vic is digging deeper, doing absolutely nothing to rehabilitate his image. What con is going to invite someone who threatens them with legal action when he doesn't get his away and has a rage farming youtube grifter buddy mobilizing the ignorant and insecure against other attendees and guests on social media?

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