Vic Mignogna

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Saiga
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Saiga » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:48 pm

ssj4 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:19 pm
Saiga wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:58 pm
It's at near 120k right now, with just over 4,000 donators.

Average donation is roughly $30, which isn't that much. I'm just amazed how many people care enough to donate. That's the bamboozling part.
It disheartens me how many anime fans are supporting this?

Why? Of all the causes to donate to, why this? defending a creepy?
I'm a little confused myself, but there's too camps to this:

*Devoted Vic fans who can't see him doing any wrong
*People who think that social activists are the biggest danger to their lifestyle with their false claims and trying to bring down "good men".

That's why people donate to this cause - some people have such a warped view that THIS is what needs the most attention, or at the very least a sizeable part of it.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by ssj4 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:33 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:40 pm
With sexual assault being such a common thing at nerd conventions, is it any wonder that a bunch of royal fuckup weebs might want to donate to a cause that minimizes what they themselves might very well be guilty of?
Wow it is? Damn, what is wrong with nerd culture

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:39 pm

ssj4 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:33 pm
Wow it is? Damn, what is wrong with nerd culture
I'd imagine that, at least in part, it comes down to two things.

1) Nerd culture has expanded a lot since the old days. No longer is it just the assumed 'weird kid in the corner playing D&D' - now being into stuff that's generally considered pretty 'nerdy' is a popular thing. At least, far more than it used to be (though I'm sure it was probably never quite like it's shown in 80's movies, which no doubt played things up for comedy and effect).
2) Human nature in general. Sad fact of the matter is, as a species, we're generally pretty terrible. There's a lot of good in us too, and personally I always try to hope for the best in people - but there's just no getting around that for some people, there just is no hope.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by DanielSSJ » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:40 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:40 pm
With sexual assault being such a common thing at nerd conventions, is it any wonder that a bunch of royal fuckup weebs might want to donate to a cause that minimizes what they themselves might very well be guilty of?
Huh. Never thought about it from that angle.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:06 pm

ssj4 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:33 pm
Wow it is? Damn, what is wrong with nerd culture
1) Nerd culture is mostly internet-based. That means anonymity and echo chambers.

2) Nerd culture, though it's been dubbed somewhat "cool" these days, is still where social outcasts group together.

3) Anime, specifically, is home to a massive trend of making sexual icons out of young, servile girls.

It's no surprise, really.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kid Buu » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:13 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:06 pm
ssj4 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:33 pm
Wow it is? Damn, what is wrong with nerd culture
1) Nerd culture is mostly internet-based. That means anonymity and echo chambers.

2) Nerd culture, though it's been dubbed somewhat "cool" these days, is still where social outcasts group together.

3) Anime, specifically, is home to a massive trend of making sexual icons out of young, servile girls.

It's no surprise, really.
Adding to number 2, theres also a part of these nerd circles who are sexually frustrated and hate women. Blaming females on why they can't get laid.

Obviously not every nerd is like that, but it is something I've noticed.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by ssj4 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:22 pm

So overall is nerd culture toxic/f*cked?

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:44 pm

ssj4 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:22 pm
So overall is nerd culture toxic/f*cked?
Yes

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by ssj4 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:08 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:44 pm
ssj4 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:22 pm
So overall is nerd culture toxic/f*cked?
Yes
*sigh* then why are so many of us part of it?

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:17 am

ssj4 wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:08 am
MasenkoHA wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:44 pm
ssj4 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:22 pm
So overall is nerd culture toxic/f*cked?
Yes
*sigh* then why are so many of us part of it?
Because we can find our corners where we're more reasonable, like Kanzenshuu for instance. Every fandom is typically toxic and demanding and whatnot, but the trick is to find the bit of the internet where that doesn't happen. Sometimes you're even better off just sticking with a collection of friends online.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by louisascommie » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:19 am

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:39 pm
ssj4 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:33 pm
Wow it is? Damn, what is wrong with nerd culture
I'd imagine that, at least in part, it comes down to two things.

1) Nerd culture has expanded a lot since the old days. No longer is it just the assumed 'weird kid in the corner playing D&D' - now being into stuff that's generally considered pretty 'nerdy' is a popular thing. At least, far more than it used to be (though I'm sure it was probably never quite like it's shown in 80's movies, which no doubt played things up for comedy and effect).
2) Human nature in general. Sad fact of the matter is, as a species, we're generally pretty terrible. There's a lot of good in us too, and personally I always try to hope for the best in people - but there's just no getting around that for some people, there just is no hope.
Though even those 80s movies portrays the nerds as really sexist and rapey

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by DanielSSJ » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:29 am

louisascommie wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:19 am
Though even those 80s movies portrays the nerds as really sexist and rapey
Hilariously enough, my copy of Perfect Blue arrived in the mail yesterday (it's actually a 90s movie, but whatever).

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by louisascommie » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:32 am

DanielSSJ wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:29 am
louisascommie wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:19 am
Though even those 80s movies portrays the nerds as really sexist and rapey
Hilariously enough, my copy of Perfect Blue arrived in the mail yesterday (it's actually a 90s movie, but whatever).
I just said 80s becuase or the college humour video lol https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ7mJFNkLAU

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:34 am

Bryesque wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:03 pm
On that note - I've known a good few lawyers, and let me tell you, none of them would have so much free time to tweet and stream 24/7 about situations they're not even directly involved with. Lawyers tend to be very busy. (Well, successful ones, anyway...)
Heh... Well, the reason I put it the way I did is because there's a surprisingly large amount of folks who believed Kamehacon was harassed, based solely on Nick's word. For example...

https://twitter.com/ArceorKoga/status/1 ... 2963288064

When I questioned him further, he could only tell me to "go ask him".

https://twitter.com/NoahSawyer20/status ... 9661564928
https://twitter.com/NoahSawyer20/status ... 0299748352
https://twitter.com/NoahSawyer20/status ... 6545316871

Fortunately I had the chance to do precisely that when Nick came into my interview with Jessika. As of now, Nick still has not gotten back to me.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:33 am

Saiga wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:48 pm
ssj4 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:19 pm
Saiga wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:58 pm
It's at near 120k right now, with just over 4,000 donators.

Average donation is roughly $30, which isn't that much. I'm just amazed how many people care enough to donate. That's the bamboozling part.
It disheartens me how many anime fans are supporting this?

Why? Of all the causes to donate to, why this? defending a creepy?
I'm a little confused myself, but there's too camps to this:

*Devoted Vic fans who can't see him doing any wrong
*People who think that social activists are the biggest danger to their lifestyle with their false claims and trying to bring down "good men".

That's why people donate to this cause - some people have such a warped view that THIS is what needs the most attention, or at the very least a sizeable part of it.
It's surprisingly easy to fleece people online by declaring support for the cause of a particularly insular and deluded minority. Antivaxxers for instance recently raised $170,000 on GoFundMe.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:46 am

Btw, does anyone have the complete list of Vic Mignogna's victims? Mine is still under construction; but I do at least have the one that started this whole mess. That one fateful story, retweeted 1700+ times with 2500+ likes on January 16, 2019.

1) https://web.archive.org/web/20190118040 ... 3562142720

And then I think we have...

2) James Marchie

3) Monica Rial

4) Michelle (whose story can be found here https://twitter.com/MichellMcC73/status ... 5583037440)

That's about as far as I've gotten, unfortunately. Anyone wanna add to this?
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Bryesque » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:40 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:34 am
Bryesque wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:03 pm
On that note - I've known a good few lawyers, and let me tell you, none of them would have so much free time to tweet and stream 24/7 about situations they're not even directly involved with. Lawyers tend to be very busy. (Well, successful ones, anyway...)
Heh... Well, the reason I put it the way I did is because there's a surprisingly large amount of folks who believed Kamehacon was harassed, based solely on Nick's word. For example...

https://twitter.com/ArceorKoga/status/1 ... 2963288064

When I questioned him further, he could only tell me to "go ask him".

https://twitter.com/NoahSawyer20/status ... 9661564928
https://twitter.com/NoahSawyer20/status ... 0299748352
https://twitter.com/NoahSawyer20/status ... 6545316871

Fortunately I had the chance to do precisely that when Nick came into my interview with Jessika. As of now, Nick still has not gotten back to me.
Yeah, there's nothing productive happening here. Monica is right in that thread - the truth will come out in time. Everything else is just speculation and conspiracy theories. But that's what that "side" trades in.

And she makes a good point about them hurting, too. Because these are not happy or confident people. That's why we see so much of this behaviour in "nerd" communities - unhappy, insecure, and disaffected people invested emotionally in their fandoms, then get way too invested in online communities like 4chan (or worse), and the far right and the grifters prey on that to swell their ranks and get these fans to bankroll them. They often offer a sense of community, or some legitimate self-help advice, or feed off their insecurities by making them feel falsely "superior", then introduce more fringe/radical elements into the equation and foster a cult-like following from there. There have been some great videos breaking down the "alt-right pipeline" recently, and a big part of the tactic specifically targets game/anime/comic/etc fandoms for radicalization.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Jord » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:55 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:46 am
Btw, does anyone have the complete list of Vic Mignogna's victims? Mine is still under construction; but I do at least have the one that started this whole mess. That one fateful story, retweeted 1700+ times with 2500+ likes on January 16, 2019.

1) https://web.archive.org/web/20190118040 ... 3562142720

And then I think we have...

2) James Marchie

3) Monica Rial

4) Michelle (whose story can be found here https://twitter.com/MichellMcC73/status ... 5583037440)

That's about as far as I've gotten, unfortunately. Anyone wanna add to this?
Until it is actually proven they should referred to as supposed victims. Not calling them liars but until they're proven right they're still supposed victims. Trusting everyone's story to be 100% true without hearsay is how Internet shaming is done and we don't want to go that route.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:22 am

Jord wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:55 am
Until it is actually proven they should referred to as supposed victims. Not calling them liars but until they're proven right they're still supposed victims. Trusting everyone's story to be 100% true without hearsay is how Internet shaming is done and we don't want to go that route.
There are situations where I'd agree with that approach, but the sheer mass of accusations from such a wide breadth of time is strong enough evidence all on its own for me.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Bryesque » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:34 am

KBABZ wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:22 am
Jord wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:55 am
Until it is actually proven they should referred to as supposed victims. Not calling them liars but until they're proven right they're still supposed victims. Trusting everyone's story to be 100% true without hearsay is how Internet shaming is done and we don't want to go that route.
There are situations where I'd agree with that approach, but the sheer mass of accusations from such a wide breadth of time is strong enough evidence all on its own for me.
It's pretty basic stuff - either dozens of separate people, many (or most?) with zero direct connection to each other, stretching over decades in a variety of places, are lying... or one person is.

It's also a very basic understanding that definitive "proof" in these cases is all but impossible. These kinds of assaults almost always happen in private, or in a sneaky way that the assaulter can deny. Which is why they're so difficult to convict, and why victims generally don't or can't pursue charges. To say nothing about the fear of being seen as "difficult" in a small industry that it's difficult to break into.

"Proof or he's innocent" is a smokescreen. Nobody forget, these cases have been investigated by his former employers, and the testimony of victims is evidence. And when you have this amount of allegations covering this wide a range, the odds of which side is truthful should be pretty clear.

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