Vic Mignogna

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Cursed Lemon
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1016
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:41 pm

Fionordequester wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:39 pm
Um... Shoot. My gosh. We've all been saying that this whole conflict was never about Vic Mignogna himself. Rather, it was part of some dumb culture war against the "SJWs".
Real talk for a second. I tried to read through that thread but kept getting distracted by the user avatars, which IMHO told the story of KiwiFarms and this situation better than anything:

- Some kind Hitler mockup that doesn't look terribly parodical
- A shot from that weird Zootopia fan comic that is anti-abortion propaganda
- And of course, plenty of this
Special Beam Cannon!

(゚Д゚)σ 弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌⊃

User avatar
KBABZ
I Live Here
Posts: 3866
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by KBABZ » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:45 pm

A subpoena? You mean Vic hasn't been present at these???

Zephyr
I Live Here
Posts: 3550
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Zephyr » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:30 pm

Fionordequester wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:39 pm
this event has done damage to malicious parties
Fionordequester wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:39 pm
...their properties are not in good hands.
I mean, these two assertions are true. Just not in the ways intended by the Kiwi. :lol:

User avatar
JulieYBM
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12371
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:39 pm

I laugh at how these weirdoes think they're totally crushing it by calling people 'soy boys', as if fem boys are a bad thing.

Feminine men are cute as fuck and take care of their hygene!
•Julie | She/Her | Pansexual & Transgender | Queer | I Love my Girlfriend, Aeryn. :)
•Avatar: Igarashi Kyou (married name: Hasumi Kyou) from the web comic 性転換後、親友と (Seitenka-go. Shin'yuu to) by Eroe (Pixiv; Twitter)

User avatar
Mr.Saturn99
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:06 am
Contact:

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Mr.Saturn99 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:45 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:39 pm
I laugh at how these weirdoes think they're totally crushing it by calling people 'soy boys', as if fem boys are a bad thing.

Feminine men are cute as fuck and take care of their hygene!
We're talking about people who think "social justice warrior" is a genuine pejorative -- they ain't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12371
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:57 pm

Mr.Saturn99 wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:45 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:39 pm
I laugh at how these weirdoes think they're totally crushing it by calling people 'soy boys', as if fem boys are a bad thing.

Feminine men are cute as fuck and take care of their hygene!
We're talking about people who think "social justice warrior" is a genuine pejorative -- they ain't exactly the sharpest tools in the shed.
Yeah, I know, I just haven't been desensitized enough.

This is just hilarious to me. Wow. I don't get men.
•Julie | She/Her | Pansexual & Transgender | Queer | I Love my Girlfriend, Aeryn. :)
•Avatar: Igarashi Kyou (married name: Hasumi Kyou) from the web comic 性転換後、親友と (Seitenka-go. Shin'yuu to) by Eroe (Pixiv; Twitter)

User avatar
Saiga
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8273
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:36 pm
Location: Space Australia

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Saiga » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:24 am

Well when they've gone so far down the rabbit hole that they think all women are bad I guess they extend that to any femininity being a pejorative.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!

WittyUsername
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:40 am

How exactly did soy become associated with femininity?

Zephyr
I Live Here
Posts: 3550
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Zephyr » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:49 am

Quoting Google:
Soy is a phytoestrogen, or a plant based estrogen. It contains two isoflavones, genistein and daidzein, which act like estrogen (the female sex hormone) within the body. Because estrogen plays a role in everything from breast cancer to sexual reproduction, this is where most of the soy controversy stems.
---

Femininity being pejorative is rather commonplace, and, indeed, seems to be part of the modus operandi in patriarchial societies: it's ingrained into much of western culture. Think of most insults that get lobbed at men in popular culture ("sissy", "you hit like a girl", etc). Apparently, in the Southern US, men raped in prison settings are often referred to as "gal-boys": to be a "sex object" is to be a woman, and vice versa, in much of the west's social unconscious. Homophobia and transphobia arguably have their very roots in the phenomenon.

The overt misogyny by the "anti"-SJW brigade (quotation marks, because these children definitely think they're fighting for what they believe to be justice) is not only on-brand, but it's also astoundingly lacking in self-awareness (which itself is also very on-brand).

User avatar
Shaddy
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Shaddy » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:59 am

A deliberate misreading of soy containing "phytoestrogens" as "estrogen", done intentionally to mock the masculinity of vegans, and by extension, left-wingers. It's actually kind of impressive how the insult can all at once invoke toxic masculinity, misogyny (as with this comes the assumption that it's "turning them into hysterical women"), transphobic and anti-intellectual and unscientific.

Seriously, studies have shown that phytoestrogen does not effect the body the same way as estrogen. But the people who tried to appropriate milk-drinking as a symbol of white nationalism (when that contains tons of actual estrogen) don't care and aren't that smart.
Mage of Blood yeets pizza wrote:Satanism is just Atheism wearing a funny hat
bjm knhhjnbguv cxkjmn bl,v wrote:Go yiff yourself

User avatar
Soppa Saia People
I Live Here
Posts: 2544
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:26 pm
Location: minnesota
Contact:

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Soppa Saia People » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:59 am

god if soy was really like what alt right nutjobs said it was i'd be drowning myself in it.
they/them pronouns

User avatar
JazzMazz
I Live Here
Posts: 2209
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:28 am
Location: Mordor, the Borg cube and Voldemort's lair all at the same time in the year 199X

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:36 am

Zephyr wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:49 am
Quoting Google:
Soy is a phytoestrogen, or a plant based estrogen. It contains two isoflavones, genistein and daidzein, which act like estrogen (the female sex hormone) within the body. Because estrogen plays a role in everything from breast cancer to sexual reproduction, this is where most of the soy controversy stems.
---

Femininity being pejorative is rather commonplace, and, indeed, seems to be part of the modus operandi in patriarchial societies: it's ingrained into much of western culture. Think of most insults that get lobbed at men in popular culture ("sissy", "you hit like a girl", etc). Apparently, in the Southern US, men raped in prison settings are often referred to as "gal-boys": to be a "sex object" is to be a woman, and vice versa, in much of the west's social unconscious. Homophobia and transphobia arguably have their very roots in the phenomenon.

The overt misogyny by the "anti"-SJW brigade (quotation marks, because these children definitely think they're fighting for what they believe to be justice) is not only on-brand, but it's also astoundingly lacking in self-awareness (which itself is also very on-brand).
Yeah, that's actually quite an interested thing I've noticed at least. I presume that's the same vein of reasoning that goes behind saying someone is "a bitch". Sadly, this stuff just seems completely ingrained in a lot of cultures, and people don't actually know why they're doing it, or why its insulting when prompted from what I've seen(saying this in reference to my experiences as a teenager around teenagers who use those insults).

User avatar
Kunzait_83
I Live Here
Posts: 2675
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:19 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kunzait_83 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:14 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:57 pm
This is just hilarious to me. Wow. I don't get men.
I'm a man, and I've NEVER even PRETENDED to understand what it must be like for someone to have and be so consumed by these kinds of obsessive fixations and hangups. Same goes for most of my own guy friends, as well as literal tons of other men out there who are left equally mystified and baffled by the whole alt-right/MRA/Manosphere/Redpill phenomenon.

That's because this isn't actually a "man" problem: its an idiot problem. Full stop.

Or to be more precise and less dismissive: its a problem with overly-sheltered and under-educated man-children - a large percentage of whom tend to typically fall somewhere on the autism/aspergers spectrum and are often horribly under-treated for it throughout their lives - who are grossly lacking in introspective self-awareness and are filled to the brim with misdirected anger and frustration for problems in life that in a great many cases (though certainly not all) are almost entirely their own fault and their own making.

There's certainly a decent amount of such people out there: but thinking that they encompass all or even a majority of the male population (even among "traditionally masculine" dudes) is just as off-base and fundamentally incorrect/false as pretty much any other kind of stereotyping out there for such a large group of people.

For as much as the internet makes it seem like these kinds of people are endlessly legion in number, trust me: there's no shortage of men in the world who don't have these bizarre hangups & fixations and who - more or less - have their basic-most shit together. They're what people in these Redpill/Manosphere communities might derisively dub as "normies" - i.e. people who are healthy, well-rounded, and functional and who aren't completely mentally and emotionally broken to their cores.

Though that being said, while plenty of such people can and do indeed have plenty of niche, dorky interests and hobbies, it does indeed certainly help a great deal for someone to much more often hang around outside (maybe even FAR outside) of insular and socially awkward "nerd" spheres in general in order to actually meet and come into contact with more of them.

But yeah, I've talked a bit about this before in this very thread, but it bears repeating (as its a mistake a LOT of people, both in right wing circles and just in general, tend to make): "toxic masculinity" is NOT the same thing as just plain 'ol regular masculinity. People who possess very heavily masculine traits (behavioral, personality, emotional, psychological, physical, etc) but who otherwise are 100% mentally and emotionally healthy and stable individuals are in NO WAY whatsoever an issue, and are plenty large in number out in the world overall.

Toxic masculinity, if anything, very often tends to typically be much more of a prevalent problem MUCH more often in men who tend to feel as if they're somehow LACKING in masculine traits (that they obsessively deify and place on a ridiculous pedestal) and are attempting to GROSSLY over-compensate. Toxic masculinity stems most centrally from insecurity, self-doubt, ignorance, inner-weakness, and fear: all of which are VERY un-masculine traits obviously.

Toxic masculinity, if I had to pin down a definition for it, is what happens when people who see themselves deep, deep down as weak, inadequate failures in life, respond to their fears by lashing out angrily and viciously at the world around them, particularly at anything or anyone they view as non-masculine/feminine. And that's because things that they see as un-masculine remind them strongly of that which they hate most, which is themselves and their lack of strength, as they (VERY much falsely) equate masculine traits with strength.

Ergo, anything or anyone that they see as non-masculine (i.e. "strong") they equate with weakness: which ultimately is how they see themselves. So they externalize their self-loathing by lashing out violently and almost psychotically at the external thing they've mistakenly view as symbolizing their own weakness and failings in life.

ALL of this of course is utterly deranged - and self-destructively obsessive - nonsense. Masculine traits are simply exactly that: behavioral and physical traits that some people have more or less of than others, and that some people personally identify more or less strongly with than others. NOTHING about masculinity inherently denotes or has a damn thing to do with "strength" in the truest sense of the concept (nor for that matter with morality in either direction): that idea is simply a total and completely arbitrary - wait for it - social construct: something that society has made up from wholecloth going back countless centuries now.

Fundamentally and unquestionably, people who are 100% secure, at east, and comfortable with themselves in their own skin DO NOT and WILL NOT give a rat's ass about how "masculine" or "feminine" other people are. If you identify as highly masculine or highly feminine, and you're totally at peace with that part of yourself, you're simply NOT going to fucking give the slightest iota of two shits which or how much of either of these traits other people around you opt to express or embody day to day. There's NO inner-turmoil or conflict about their own identity and sense of self that's constantly raging inside their head: there's no existential crisis stemming from miss-perceiving abstract concepts like gender norms and behaviors as avatars for strength and weakness.

This psychosis that I'm describing is literally where the VAST overwhelming majority of things like homophobia and transphobia ultimately stems from: queer and non-binary people, because they don't slot themselves in neatly with a black and white "standard" of gender norms and traits (said "standard" being a complete and utter bullshit arbitrary societal invention in the first place), just their mere EXISTENCE within proximity to deeply insecure and self-repressed man-babies acts (entirely in their minds) as an existential threat to their very identity and sense of self.

Using just myself as an easy, quick example: by and large I'm very decidedly masculine in my behavioral & physical traits as well as my core identity as a person. Always have been. Moreover, I've pretty much NEVER in my life felt that these aspects of my personality and identity were in ANY remote way "weakened" or "under threat" from anything, ever, at any point.

I've got a few more feminine traits as well of course (literally ALL OF US are some mixture of the two, no matter one's physical/biological sex, because people are fundamentally complex and multifaceted creatures both psychologically and sociologically), but by and large I've always 100% identified and behaved/carried myself as a fairly masculine dude. Its so naturally ingrained into who I am, that its never been any sort of issue that's weighed on my mind or caused me to loose a wink of sleep at night over it. Not for one second of my life at any point.

As such... I simply do not give a flying fuck what masculine or feminine traits other people decide or don't decide to express and by how many degrees. I don't care if people around me identify as men or as women (regardless of their original sex at birth), I don't care if they (consensually of course) decide to fuck the same sex, the opposite sex, or both, nor in which combinations or configurations. As long as no one's being forced or pressured into it, it simply does not fucking matter one iota.

This same exact sentiment generally applies to most men - up to and including even very overtly "masculine" ones - who are totally comfortable and secure in their masculine identity. When you're at peace with yourself and comfortable with who you are, things like what other random people are doing with and among themselves sexually tends to not really bother you at all because why the fuck would they?

In essence you just mind your own fucking business, live your own life, and let other people live theirs. Overwhelmingly, queer and non-binary people just as equally don't (nor should they) give two shits what straight/binary people choose to do with their sex lives and gender expressions as well.

The problem of course is when you have people - especially a large enough group of them, particularly when they're all gathered about in a psychologically self-harming online echo-chamber - who AREN'T secure or at ease with themselves and their own identities and self-images, and who furthermore have done barely an OUNCE of serious introspection and self-reflection about these things in their entire lives.

When such a LARGE amount of real-estate in one's subconscious is so heavily preoccupied with (and indeed outright DROWNING in) crippling fear, anxiety, and self-doubt about one's basic-most fundamental root core as an individual - when one's basic psychological and emotional foundations are so weak and wobbly almost every second of one's day to day - that's when toxic masculinity tends to assert itself and become expressed in the form of someone trying to almost fanatically stamp out and drive away from their view any remote hint of what they see around them in other people as "weakness" or that reminds them of what they themselves feel that they lack deep, deep down.

Its over-compensation along with a healthy amount of denial (while far from universal, the number of toxically masculine guys who wind up turning out to be gay or trans themselves is nothing short of staggering a lot of the time) and psychological projection.

This is basically most of the reason why these people get SO FREAKED OUT over shit that has literally NOTHING to do with them and ultimately has ZERO bearing on their lives or their own actual problems. If you're truly not gay or trans and are a 100% cis/hetero man, then guess what? Literally nobody cares! Not one diddly shit!

No one anywhere has ANY REMOTE interest in forcing you to fuck people of the same gender as you or have your genitals surgically altered or your hormones replaced or whatnot. What other people decide to do with their sexuality and how they opt to express their gender norms, it has absolutely less than ZERO impact on you in the slightest.

Toxic masculinity is a form of completely irrational, overwhelmingly panicky fear and anxiety stemming from deep, DEEP existential self-doubt and lack of self-confidence and self-esteem. Its a psychological and emotional mania: it IN NO WAY has a damn thing to do with average, healthy, ordinary masculinity, but rather if anything the (perceived) lack of it.

And sadly, this psychological complex has gripped a TON of socially alienated, emotionally vulnerable and confused young men in today's current climate, much of which stems from a combination of A) godawful and neglectful absentee parenting or strong family bonds in their home lives and B) the continued deterioration and decay of global economic models and frameworks, creating MASSIVE and ever-growing levels of poverty and economic disparity.

You combine the sense of hopelessness and despair for a dark future ahead that comes from the economic collapse that much of civilization around us is currently undergoing, along with a general lack of basic direction and identity that comes from a lethal combo of bad/negligent parenting, untreated psychological/neurological issues, social isolation and alienation from a complete lack of real life friends and support network, and just the usual hormonal angst that comes with being a teenager or 20-something on top of all that: and you've got an IMMENSELY corrosive, toxic stew of a sociological powder keg that's primed to go off in an immensely ugly-ass fashion.

And as if all that weren't bad enough on its own, this hideous brew of mass simultaneous personal existential meltdowns among throngs of young guys is being further spurred on and steered/misdirected online 100% intentionally by cravenly opportunistic political forces: many of them with both direct and indirect ties to Neo Nazi and white supremacist hate groups and organizations (Breitbart, Stormfront, The Daily Stormer, and various far right wing think thank organizations with deep, deep pockets like the National Policy Institute, and to name just a few).

So you've also got ghoulish political networks out there who are basically hijacking this giant morass of misdirected youthful anger and frustration within socially isolated online communities (gaming, anime, comic books, etc) made up of emotionally broken and lonely misfits who are desperately lacking in healthy relationships, positive emotional outlets, and genuine social experience, and are providing them with handy and convenient scapegoat targets (the usual suspects of black and brown people, women, gay/trans/queer people, etc) alongside a heaping helping of brainwashing political indoctrination that steers them straight into a more overtly fascistic ditch: largely via online forums and social media platforms like 4chan and Youtube and the like.

Thus you get the alt-right, GamerGate, Redpills, MRAs, Incels, Proud Boys, and all these various cult-like, ultra authoritarian and fascist subcultures online who are collectively hijacking a FUCKTON of the national dialogue and discourse as of the past 5 or 6 years or so now, and who've collectively introduced all of this absurd and asinine terminology (Soyboy, Chad & Stacy, beta-cuck, NPC, etc) into the mass cultural lexicon, and who make idiotic and ridiculous fake "controversies" out of even the most dumbass and petty shit, like this whole Vic thing within this particular neck of the fandom/geek cultural wilderness (i.e. Dragon Ball fandom) as just one of about a bazillion other examples.

This post right here:
Fionordequester wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:39 pm
Um... Shoot. My gosh. We've all been saying that this whole conflict was never about Vic Mignogna himself. Rather, it was part of some dumb culture war against the "SJWs".

...Well. Here's a KiwiFarms member coming right out and saying it.
Lone MacReady wrote: [E]ven if Vic doesn't win everything, he still wins. He's at least got Soye/Rial on lock, Funi isn't escaping either imo - but even if they do, there are still 2nd party shitheads to deal with like Funi's mouthpiece ANN and potential couch-keeper Sabat. Funi's brand gets more tarnished by the day, Toei is eyeing their Spanking-paddle, Sony is an outed WOKE censorious joke (with companies like RT and CR not far behind in the race to the bottom), and now even the hardest of hardcore dub shills are finding reasons to swear off dubs for good and to support Japan at the source.

At the end of the day all of this centers around a general push-back against the SJW co-opting of anime, Vic's lawsuit was just the catalyst for it. Even if he doesn't win everything, this event has done damage to malicious parties and outed animu-licensing for being the incestuous Left-leaning industry it is. While minor antagonists like RT may get out scott free - this case has and is STILL irrevocably damaging Funimation's brand/employees, and is showing Japan that their properties are not in good hands. Never forget that simply spreading the word to normies is probably the best weapon at our disposal. In the best case scenario where Vic cleans house, its a double-win because that court precedence will help many MANY men in the future to stay safe from lying old THOTs.
Is proof positive of what I'm talking about here. For quite awhile now, there's been a MUCH bigger, overarching political battle going on with gaming/anime/geek culture having been roped into the center of it going back to the early GamerGate days 6-ish years ago (and a fair bit longer than that honestly, if we're tracing this all the way back to its real roots).

Considering the communities and subcultures involved, it was only a matter of time before something to do with Dragon Ball fandom eventually got pulled into the vortex. And here we are with this Vic thing.

As clearly demonstrated, while there's certainly some decent percentage of naive, clueless FUNimation dub stans who are obsessively loyal to Vic at play in this (and they're playing the dutiful role of Useful Idiots), a LARGE bulk of this at its centeral core has little to nothing to do with any real, serious interest in FUNimation or Dragon Ball. Rather, this is just another - largely manufactured - controversy that's being purposefully stirred, heightened, co-opted, and used as a vehicle by online trolls as part of a much larger political movement that's been brewing, developing, and raging fiercely within all manner of various online nerd community spaces in general.
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:00 am, edited 7 times in total.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

User avatar
Fionordequester
I Live Here
Posts: 2588
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:29 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:36 am
Yeah, that's actually quite an interested thing I've noticed at least. I presume that's the same vein of reasoning that goes behind saying someone is "a bitch". Sadly, this stuff just seems completely ingrained in a lot of cultures, and people don't actually know why they're doing it, or why its insulting when prompted from what I've seen(saying this in reference to my experiences as a teenager around teenagers who use those insults).
It's been that way since Adam & Eve. Not something God wanted, but something that naturally happened in a cruel world.

Why do men do that? I imagine it's pretty simple: "The weak are meat, and the strong eat"... and women happen to (generally) be smaller & weaker. But, at the same time, the human race dies without them... So most men crave them. You get the type of man that thinks women are weak & useless... while also being completely unable to live without them. They see women as a drug addiction they just can't shake, and hate them as a result.

A bit over dramatic? Maybe. But heck if I can find any other reason why us men have been so cruel to women over the years :( ...
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

User avatar
JulieYBM
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12371
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:19 am

I'm on mobile in the middle of Houston so I'm not going to reply to that long-ass post other than to say I was making a goofy point in reference to the fact that I actively have estrogen running through my system, something these MRA types would mock.
•Julie | She/Her | Pansexual & Transgender | Queer | I Love my Girlfriend, Aeryn. :)
•Avatar: Igarashi Kyou (married name: Hasumi Kyou) from the web comic 性転換後、親友と (Seitenka-go. Shin'yuu to) by Eroe (Pixiv; Twitter)

User avatar
Kunzait_83
I Live Here
Posts: 2675
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:19 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kunzait_83 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:35 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:19 am
I'm on mobile in the middle of Houston so I'm not going to reply to that long-ass post other than to say I was making a goofy point in reference to the fact that I actively have estrogen running through my system, something these MRA types would mock.
Don't sweat it, I wasn't in any way trying to "take you to task" or whatnot over anything you said. I was just using that post of yours as a jumping off point to delve deeper into a lot of the psychological aspects behind these MRA figures in question and to make a much broader point about this whole mess. Nothing the least bit combative or argumentative intended your way.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

User avatar
Mr.Saturn99
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:06 am
Contact:

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Mr.Saturn99 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:07 am

A lawyer's livetweeting today's hearing here. Screech has just walked in.

Edit: Eeyup, the judge ain't having it.

User avatar
BlueBasilisk
I Live Here
Posts: 3059
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by BlueBasilisk » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:28 pm

Looks like all claims against Jamie Marchi were dismissed.

Zephyr
I Live Here
Posts: 3550
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Zephyr » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:33 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:14 am
As clearly demonstrated, while there's certainly some decent percentage of naive, clueless FUNimation dub stans who are obsessively loyal to Vic at play in this (and they're playing the dutiful role of Useful Idiots), a LARGE bulk of this at its centeral core has little to nothing to do with any real, serious interest in FUNimation or Dragon Ball. Rather, this is just another - largely manufactured - controversy that's being purposefully stirred, heightened, co-opted, and used as a vehicle by online trolls as part of a much larger political movement that's been brewing, developing, and raging fiercely within all manner of various online nerd community spaces in general.
Bolded trolls for emphasis.

To add on to this, the general pattern of "trolling" behavior is (at bare minimum) over half a century old, at this point. French existentialist philosopher, Jean-Paul Sartre, was writing about this in the 1940's. For some brief context, Sartre helped pioneer a philosophical concept known as "bad faith":
the phenomenon in which human beings, under pressure from social forces, adopt false values and disown their innate freedom, hence acting inauthentically.
In his work, Anti-Semite and Jew (here quoted via Wikiquote), he argues:
The anti‐Semite has chosen hate because hate is a faith; at the outset he has chosen to devaluate words and reasons. How entirely at ease he feels as a result. How futile and frivolous discussions about the rights of the Jew appear to him. He has placed himself on other ground from the beginning. If out of courtesy he consents for a moment to defend his point of view, he lends himself but does not give himself. He tries simply to project his intuitive certainty onto the plane of discourse. I mentioned awhile back some remarks by anti‐Semites, all of them absurd: "I hate Jews because they make servants insubordinate, because a Jewish furrier robbed me, etc." Never believe that anti‐ Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti‐Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. It is not that they are afraid of being convinced. They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side..
Naturally, we're not always dealing with anti-Semitism from alt-right trolls, or even always racism (see: this whole Mignogna thing being more about misogyny), but the fact that "internet trolls" and alt-right types online see so much overlap has some astounding historical precedent, which I think helps further shed light onto the nature of the whole thing. Nevermind all of the "Jews run X, Y, and Z" conspiracy theories that are still hyper-prevalent in places like 4chan.

A close friend of mine, who is both right-leaning and frequents 4chan is always quick to "assure" me that it's all, or mostly, satire. Poe's Law notwithstanding, that's still textbook "bad faith", which sees it fitting in with the rest of Sartre's scheme regardless.

I've engaged in an incredible amount of "trolling", myself, over the years. I'm sure everyone has. It can be funny to "fuck with" someone. However, not only is it degrading to one's own social skills to lean into that more than merely occasionally, it's also telling which arenas and avenues in which some people decide to do so -- in the context of the alt-right, and such, that they're choosing to "fuck with" people who are trying to have serious adult conversations about serious adult matters, whose takeaways tangibly impact the well-being of countless individuals across the globe. If your only engagement with the topics of the unique struggles that women, people of color, LGBT+, etc. go through is via trivialization and mockery for, at absolute best, the sake of "a good laugh", then there's an disturbing lack of empathy and compassion going on under the hood. I come from a relatively-rural community, and have several close friends who do exactly that.

Meaning that, even if we were to (somehow, against all reason) grant that 100% of the alt-right's hateful shit is just "in jest", that's not much better (if at all) than if it was all genuine. As Kunzait went over, absentee parenting in the internet age results in extremely impressionable children free to go to places like 4chan, where they can't tell what's genuine and what isn't (as if it matters) and mistake it as genuine. If they're also bitter social outcasts, chances are that they will find other such kids to confide in, leaving such cesspools as their only form of community and social bonding. Overtly-racist organizations are able to make great use of this environment in order to indoctrinate these poor kids, and ensure that their nonsense passes on to the next generation.

User avatar
Mr.Saturn99
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:06 am
Contact:

Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Mr.Saturn99 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:36 pm

I can't; I fucking can't. I implore y'all to read the livetweets -- I'm nearly in tears from laughing so hard. Beard's having a public meltdown and the judge is raking him over the coals.

Post Reply