Vic Mignogna

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ABED
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by ABED » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:28 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:05 am
ABED wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:44 am
JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:42 am
You're operating without acknowledging why people stick to the internet as they do: social anxiety, PTSD and other disabilities. Not to be ableist, as I have all three of those, but the best course of action is to fix the internet, not dump everyone off or just blame it. Otherwise you're just dumping them back into their conservative or apolitical environments that do nothing to ensure a stable growth. I interact with the real world all the time and I can confirm that I am easily the most politcally savvy--thanks to the net--and they have just as easily a shot as being led astray there as they do on the net. At least on the net we can spread empathy and progressive ideology.
What constitutes "fixing" the internet?
By taking back the spaces infiltrated by conservatives, sharpening our messaging and teaching self-love. Typically these kids being radicalized are falling prey because they've been taught to hate themselves at home and places like 4chan or gaming circles, which trivialize real world issues and minorities, teach these kids to take their issues out on others. This is to say nothing of your political commentators like Shapiro or Crowder who are outright bigots that lean on ideas like "the left is overly-sensitive and can't take a joke, LOL!" Or Shapiro's "I'm just being factual and if your feelings get hurt then that's your problem." They're selling snake oil and telling these vulnerable kids who need something to believe in for self-preservation to believe in ideologies that simultaneously is about asserting false objectivity through "facts don't care about your feelings", hiding bigotry behind try-hard edgy 'humor' that is about punching down instead of up and nonsensical 'free market' economics and blaming the poor (typically GSRM) for their harsh lives.
Fair enough, minus lumping in free marketers. But I wouldn't couch that as "fixing the internet". This is a humanity issue, not an issue of the medium.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:34 am

The medium is how you fix the problem that the medium was used to exacerbate to this point.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:46 am

Well guys, I actually changed someone's mind on the Internet! That's right, I actually changed someone's mind on the Internet.! How did I do it?

Who knows. Maybe you can tell me. Be warned, the conversation is pretty long. Lots of rambling, delayed responses, and all that stuff.
For the sake of clarity, those first direct messages came before I put in the Google Drive links to the affidavits. He read them, and while mostly unimpressed, the Theresa Yost one really freaked him out. He was like "dang, if that really happened..."

And then the conversation is back to DMs.
As an aside, that Kiwi Farms post at the very end was someone demonstrating how easy it was to fake an account. This was in regards to Nadolny... and apparently, there was someone on there saying "hey, wait, let's analyze this critically now, we don't wanna jump the gun". So he went and crafted a fake message, screenshot, and account to show that Nadolny could've been a fake.

Anyway, back to the conversation...
Drawing close to the end...

So now we've established Nick & Ty's lack of credibility, and how they're only using Vic. He actually agrees with me. After that, he makes another shocking discovery; One I hadn't even thought of while giving him Huber's affidavit...
Very brief stint back to the regular tweets...
And on that positive note, we end our conversation. Will he remain convinced?

Eh, who knows. But I still feel like I made a friend, and brightened his day. What do you all think? Hopefully it'll help break up the predictions of ill tidings, eh?
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Mr.Saturn99 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:52 am

For those curious whenever the transcript of Beard's stand-up comedy will drop, Greg successfully funded a GoFundMe to request it (Up 'till now, Shane Holmberg had been paying them out of his own pocket). Any additional funds will be forwarded to RAINN, if you want to chip in.

(Speaking of Greg, if you're wondering where he's been, Vic stans mass-reported his account again, so he's been posting on his podcast account).

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kunzait_83 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:10 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:42 am
You're operating without acknowledging why people stick to the internet as they do: social anxiety, PTSD and other disabilities.
When did I not acknowledge those things? I've been talking almost non-stop about social anxiety and depression all throughout these various posts. I even said this earlier:
Kunzait_83 wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:26 am
If you're someone who has a lot of social anxiety (as that tends to be a root cause of this kind of "heavily online" lifestyle of a lot of people), please by all means consider looking into getting professional help for it and working toward getting past it.
I've also been discussing at length the important role that bad, broken home lives (including negligent & neglectful, not to mention abusive, parenting and so on) also plays into all this.

I never made the claim that social anxiety or depression or PTSD somehow comes from complete nothingness nor that they exist within a vacuum in people. I'm not at all sure where you're getting the idea that this is something that I've been ignoring or not acknowledging. People get social anxiety, depression, and PTSD from all sorts of personal traumas throughout their lives, particularly when they're very little. Hell, I myself was diagnosed with and had to deal with pretty severe PTSD when I was still in grade school. I've been there myself.

I've been beyond adamant on this right along these last few pages worth of this godforsaken thread: social anxiety, depression, and generally poor mental health and poor upbringing/dysfunctional family relationships play a VERY key role in where a lot of this stuff begins from. At NO point did I cite the internet as somehow being THE SOURCE of the problem from where everything else begins and stems from. The source obviously, as I've BEEN saying right along, is a combination of factors from lack of mental and emotional care at home, lack of professional help, and of course our shitty/broken political system & institutions, which impacts everything from basic economic to the healthcare industry (mental health included).

Over-dependency on the internet for social interaction and communication is but a symptom of a broader societal problem (albeit a key one), not the root cause of it. I don't know how I can keep making that point any clearer.
JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:42 am
Not to be ableist, as I have all three of those, but the best course of action is to fix the internet, not dump everyone off or just blame it. Otherwise you're just dumping them back into their conservative or apolitical environments that do nothing to ensure a stable growth.

I interact with the real world all the time and I can confirm that I am easily the most politcally savvy--thanks to the net--and they have just as easily a shot as being led astray there as they do on the net.
Once again: I'm not blaming the internet as the root source of anyone's problems. What I AM saying though is that someone who already has a boatload of personal problems (depression, social anxiety, loneliness/alienation, etc) retreating into the internet for solace as a substitute for living, is probably NOT the ideal or best solution to coping with one's personal problems.

The internet can be a wonderful and amazing tool/resource: but what I think gets overlooked a lot of the time is that how well its used as an informational tool depends ENTIRELY on the person using it. There's all manner of incredibly important and invaluable information to be found online, for sure... as well as a TON of abject nonsense and poisonous bullshit. And there really isn't any filter or hardline distinction between the two. A person really has to use their own personal judgement and rely on what they know from their own experiences in order to decipher between the stuff that's real and the bullshit (and worse, the stuff that's a blended mix of the two).

The problem of course arises when someone is coming into the internet with judgement that's already horribly hamstrung out the gate by a combination of volatile emotional & psychological problems, as well as maybe poor education and a complete lack of personal/social experience. Social experience can especially be a VERY useful and powerful tool to help one distinguish between when someone is being truthful and when someone's bullshitting you: even when its online. And people who are lacking in that experience can be MUCH more easily susceptible to being conned.

Obviously this stuff also applies out in the real world too, as real life outside the internet is also awash with plenty of naive, gullible, easily-lead individuals. But I would argue that the more broadly experienced and the more contact and personal connections you've had with a very wide array of different kinds of people, the less and less likely you are to fall for a lot of common stereotypes, confirmation biases, and other assorted mind viruses and thought traps. Because yeah: the internet obviously isn't the ONLY way for people out in the real world to fall into the rut of isolating themselves into tiny little echo chambers (especially out in rural areas with lots of small towns and farm communities and the like).

I'm also more than a bit at a loss for your framing this as my wanting to "dump people off of the internet and back into their own abusive environments". Like... what do you think it is that I'm advocating for here exactly? No one (certainly not me) is saying anything about forcibly cutting people's internet connections and MAKING them get off against their will. I'm simply saying we should be helping to ENCOURAGE more people who over-rely on the internet as a substitute for social contact to maybe (and COMPLETELY of their own volition) lay off it more and deal more directly & aggressively with their own real life problems that are at the heart of their emotional/psychological problems that are driving them to sink most of their lives into the internet in the first place.

Obviously you have to work within whatever financial and practical realities that you're currently dealing with (and for many/most of us, those tend to be pretty dire): but if you're in ANY WAY able to do things like go seek out help from some form of mental health professional of some kind (counseling, therapy, what have you), or possibly move out/away from your toxic family/hometown, or take more proactive steps to improving your physical health if need be... whatever it happens to be for whomever's individual personal circumstances.

Then more people should be encouraged to go THAT route, to take as much control over the reigns of their lives to WHATEVER possible extent that they can, rather than to basically just "give up" on reality entirely and lose themselves into a morass of (often brain-warping) rabbit holes online; which in many/most cases usually leads people to further emotional/psychological disconnect and alienation.

I get that your own personal road in this matter ended up at a positive point for you, and I'm absolutely and 100% beyond happy for you in that regard Julie. I genuinely, sincerely am. But you also have to understand something: your own personal experiences with regards to the internet and online culture are IN NO WAY necessarily the "norm" when it comes to how it shakes out for a LOT of other young guys out there. For as many people like yourself who end up at a positive place, despite all odds, there are just as many TONS more people who end up going the EXACT opposite, horrible direction.

By that same token, I VEHEMENTLY disagree that simply just "fixing the internet" (whatever the fuck that even entails in your own personal view) will somehow be some kind of key solution in all this that will make things innately better for most people, especially for people who's problems are already stemming from crappy home lives and poor mental health and the like. And frankly, I'm not 100% sure if it even IS possible for us to make the internet a less harmful and misinformation-rife place WITHOUT addressing real people's problems out in their real lives first and foremost.

I mean no offense here Julie, but you make it sound here like the internet is some mystical device that just spews helpful facts and information from some magic ether. The internet simply reflects whatever it is that all of the people using it (both smart and stupid, both positive and negative) bring into it with them.

I mean I dunno how else to tell you this, but most of the Left-leaning political information that you've learned about online in fairly recent years was ALREADY long, long out there in the world and known by numerous people well many years/decades before the internet was around: and not necessarily just stuffed shirt professors and experts hiding it away in some ivory tower. I mean by actual, on-the-ground, regular people out in the day to day world. It didn't just magically blink itself into existence on the internet from sheer nothingness: people out in the world who've long been following and paying attention to these problems since DECADES ago put them out there online so that more and more people can be privy to them.

Again, it just ENTIRELY depends on where you happened to live your whole life: but if you're someone who lived in some small town or rural community and have been isolated to whatever degree (not saying that's what you were specifically Julie, just as a general example), then you have to understand that the whole country/world ISN'T all like that and that vastly different perspective and contexts HAVE ALWAYS existed and will continue to develop out in the broader world.

Because so much of the internet is simply a magnification of whatever it is that people take with them into it, people who are going in already with a TON of toxic emotional baggage tend to more often than not MUCH MORE frequently end up gravitating more and more into negative spaces. That doesn't ALWAYS happen, obviously: but it certainly helps stack the deck against you going in.

If you're someone with a lot of bitterness and resentment already in your head (borne from whatever abuses and traumas that occurred to you in your life) then most people, by and large, are usually going to end up zeroing in on online communities and voices that feed into and stoke those emotions and that confirm their biases. Because for a lot of people, oftentimes its MUCH more seductive to listen to what it is they WANT to hear rather than deal with the cold reality of what actually is. And a lot of people, believe it or not, tend to get hooked on their own fears and resentments, on the "high" of wallowing in their own self-pity and pettiness, as a means of dealing with their problems, rather than trying to truly do the hard work of breaking them down, constructively healing them, and ultimately becoming free of them entirely.

Again, this kind of dark path among the socially isolated is NOT universal obviously: you yourself Julie are someone who ended up coming to a fairly good place in the end, and once again I could not be happier for you in that. But sadly, the reverse is SO commonplace and widespread, that I'm VERY much not completely kosher with the idea that "they don't need LESS internet: they just need BETTER internet" that your putting forward here. Rather I would argue "they need to have whatever's gone wrong in their real lives actually be properly addressed directly in some fashion before they end up submerging themselves into an online echo chamber that's only going to further magnify those problems and metastasize them in their minds".

People end up retreating deeply into the internet for solace and emotional/psychological coping precisely because their own real lives are ALREADY miserable and broken for all kinds of various reasons: I would argue that the better way to go is for people to try and do whatever they possibly can (given the current dilapidated economic environment) to tackle their problems from the real life end of things, rather than us simply saying "Hey lets make our crutch/coping mechanism of choice - the internet - less toxic!"

I mean, I'm OF COURSE all in favor of doing whatever we possibly can to make the internet a less toxic and shitty place in general and curb/curtail the bullshit misinformation on it as much as humanly possible: but I think that putting the brunt of the emphasis THERE rather than on helping to alleviate the problems found within the actual real world that people are living in outside of the internet, is EXACTLY backwards.

In other words: when its not being simply used as a resource/information tool and as a SUPPLEMENT for rather than a SUBSTITUTE to social interaction, the internet often ends up becoming - especially for a lot of lost, lonely, and deeply depressed and unhappy young people out in gamer/Otaku culture - a replacement/substitute for actually living a real life.

Don't get it twisted: obviously I'm 1000% all in favor of making the internet less toxic, less rife with bad information, and less of a proving ground for cult-indoctrination to the fullest degree that's humanly possible... but I'm also NOT AT ALL in favor of continuing to encourage that people who are already suffering from severe, crippling emotional/psychological problems continue go on using the internet as a substitute for living a truly happy and fulfilling life.

After all, as we both agree: the root of the problem is what's already wrong with people over in their lives outside the internet. I'm simply saying that its probably healthier and more productive in the long run to encourage people to NOT depend on the internet as a substitute for having a social life, but instead to take whatever active steps that they can possibly take to actually improve their own real lives so that they don't NEED to rely on the internet for social interaction in the first place.
JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:42 am
At least on the net we can spread empathy and progressive ideology.
There are PLENTY of ways for us to continue to do that: and they don't ALL revolve around solely the internet (as important and crucial a tool as it is). The internet after all really isn't worth much without a healthy and stable real world for it to exist within.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:16 pm

Remember how the Dallas Morning News reporting on this was considered a pretty big step up in terms of coverage, considering that prior to that it was only being talked about on anime/video game/"nerd" sites? Well, it's officially hit the really big news spectrum now folks. Sharon Grigsby (who wrote the DMN articles) has now been on NBC talking about the case.

So much for not being a public figure, eh Vic?
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by gokaiblue » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:49 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:16 pm
Remember how the Dallas Morning News reporting on this was considered a pretty big step up in terms of coverage, considering that prior to that it was only being talked about on anime/video game/"nerd" sites? Well, it's officially hit the really big news spectrum now folks. Sharon Grigsby (who wrote the DMN articles) has now been on NBC talking about the case.

So much for not being a public figure, eh Vic?
To clarify: it made it onto a local affiliate, not the network. Still big though.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:02 pm

gokaiblue wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:49 pm
To clarify: it made it onto a local affiliate, not the network. Still big though.
My apologies if that came off as misrepresenting that, I didn't realize. I've been unable to watch the video myself (it's like NBC doesn't wanna load for me), so I had to rely on the Twitter user that I found that from to give me context for it (I wasn't sure at first, based on how they worded it, if this was a big game-changing video, or just a re-cap of some sort), and I guess I missed that part of it. :oops:
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by gokaiblue » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:09 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:02 pm
gokaiblue wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:49 pm
To clarify: it made it onto a local affiliate, not the network. Still big though.
My apologies if that came off as misrepresenting that, I didn't realize. I've been unable to watch the video myself (it's like NBC doesn't wanna load for me), so I had to rely on the Twitter user that I found that from to give me context for it (I wasn't sure at first, based on how they worded it, if this was a big game-changing video, or just a re-cap of some sort), and I guess I missed that part of it. :oops:
No problem! It's an important distinction that many feel to make, associating the affiliate with the national network.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by EXBadguy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:37 am

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:16 pm
Remember how the Dallas Morning News reporting on this was considered a pretty big step up in terms of coverage, considering that prior to that it was only being talked about on anime/video game/"nerd" sites? Well, it's officially hit the really big news spectrum now folks. Sharon Grigsby (who wrote the DMN articles) has now been on NBC talking about the case.

So much for not being a public figure, eh Vic?
The fact that this fiasco made it to a major local news network is like...dayum!

Anyway, I saw a video about a certain Vic stan youtuber video chatting with Dicknogna discussing about opening up his own dub studio in the future :lol: . I won't name the youtber cuz he doesn't deserve any publicity here, but if you type in "vic dub studio", that video is the first one to pop up.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Kinokima » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:37 pm

Turns out Ty Beard runs Nick R’s trust fund

No wonder he recommended a lawyer with no previous defamation experience to this case. :lol:

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:15 pm

Wait, how did that happen? Are they family friends, or what?
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:52 pm

Just did a search; Here's the proof (check Section IX):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1A3pd ... TT3dR/view
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:49 am

So Nadolny's Twitter account was hacked? That makes sense. I was seeing a Vic stan (who I won't name again) calling Sabat the "Harvey Weinstein of anime". Yare yare daze...

And wow, a local affiliate to NBC talked about this whole fiasco?
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:19 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:49 am
And wow, a local affiliate to NBC talked about this whole fiasco?
And to think... All Vic had to do was just lie low for a while, and work on himself. That's the Streisand Effect, for you.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by sailorspazz » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:38 pm

If anyone is interested in reading the full transcript from the courtroom, it's now available. They watermarked it with the "Threadnought" label so when ISWV streamers inevitably talk about it, they can't hide the source of where they got it from if they show screenshots. :lol:

Haven't had time to look through it yet myself, but according to Greg, Ty somehow comes across even worse than he did from the live tweets/summaries of those who attended.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Mr.Saturn99 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:58 pm

Mike Dunford's also doing another livetweet analysis here.

Some goooood reading so far.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:15 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:19 pm
8000 Saiyan wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:49 am
And wow, a local affiliate to NBC talked about this whole fiasco?
And to think... All Vic had to do was just lie low for a while, and work on himself. That's the Streisand Effect, for you.
True.

By the way, congrats in able to change the mind of a Vic stan. I guess it is possible for them to escape Fantasy Land and move to Reality Land.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Fionordequester » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:12 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:15 am
By the way, congrats in able to change the mind of a Vic stan. I guess it is possible for them to escape Fantasy Land and move to Reality Land.
Thanks. Still woulda been worth it even if he hadn't; Just being able to form friendships'll go a long way to finally getting people to leave Monica & Marchi alone.

"Best way to defeat an enemy is to make friends with them", and all that.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Zinnia
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Zinnia » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:23 pm

So do you think DBS Broly will have a different VA in FighterZ now? Looking forward to it, as I didn't like Magnagna's take on him. It felt lazy and unispired, especially recently.

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