Vic Mignogna

[Cursed Lemon]

Here's the problem, though. Issuing those kinds of mandates implies one or both of two things: that the artist was deliberately reinforcing these "harmful" precedents and/or the consumer is watching specifically for that content, or that certain things are just inherently off limits, e.g. LGBT people simply aren't allowed to die in movies, ever. I think both of these assertions are asinine. It's not a matter of separating the artist from the art, it's the implicit accusation that contextual "harm" in the subtext has somehow climbed into the league of actual malice. On the example of Shield Hero, I agree that the timing is bad. I do not agree that an author isn't allowed to write a story with a false rape accusation, that the author is complicit in the agenda of those who would use that kind of thing as ammo, or that those who watch the show are fixated on that content or at the very least somehow perpetuating a harm on the demographic in question.

[XanatosVanBadass]

Here's the problem, though. Issuing those kinds of mandates implies one or both of two things: that the artist was deliberately reinforcing these "harmful" precedents and/or the consumer is watching specifically for that content, or that certain things are just inherently off limits, e.g. LGBT people simply aren't allowed to die in movies, ever. I think both of these assertions are asinine. It's not a matter of separating the artist from the art, it's the implicit accusation that contextual "harm" in the subtext has somehow climbed into the league of actual malice. On the example of Shield Hero, I agree that the timing is bad. I do not agree that an author isn't allowed to write a story with a false rape accusation, that the author is complicit in the agenda of those who would use that kind of thing as ammo, or that those who watch the show are fixated on that content or at the very least somehow perpetuating a harm on the demographic in question.

Oh I agree that the creators are certainly not to blame. At least as far as Goblin Slayer and Shield Hero is concerned. AOT is absolutely pushing a right wing agenda though, so fuck it. My issue is more with promoting shows in THIS climate. Not every anime should be released in the USA.

[Kunzait_83]

That American idiots embrace poorly timed rape denial nonsense like Shield Hero, rape culture apologia like Goblin Slayer, or Attack on Titan with its right wing author and antisemetic implications. A poster here was even being an apologist for a pornographic rape scene from Ninja Scroll. I just... I’m done with it.

The last bolded example (regarding Ninja Scroll) was almost certainly a shot at a couple of posts I made semi-recently.
Anyone who's taken a look at any number of my posts on here (including a good deal numerous examples within this very thread here) can probably glean pretty clearly that I in NO WAY take the side of "rape apologism" in just about ANY context, including most certainly within anime and anime fandom-related matters.

I've LONG been (for literally decades now) as staunch and vitriolic a detractor of hideous and vile sexual behavior and regressive/misogynistic sexual views within both anime and its general fandom culture as any that you'll find out there. The retrograde, knuckledragging sexual politics inherent throughout a tremendously vast swath of Otaku-dom has been one of my KEY-most issues with the whole subculture for almost as long as I can remember now (which is quite a long, long ways now).

So I certainly do not in ANY way appreciate being lumped in with that grotesque, despicable lot unless its INCREDIBLY well warranted. And no, me defending the use of rape in a work of fiction when I see it as being used in a justifiable context (i.e. its played strictly for horror, its shown with empathy firmly on the side of the victim, does not in any way glorify or eroticize the act, is part of a broader relevant point to the narrative and its subtext, etc) certainly does NOT come even CLOSE to qualifying.

We can have a genuine subjective disagreement on whether or not a specific example of rape used in fiction meets those criteria: but that's in NO WAY REMOTELY the same thing or on the same level as:

A) Deliberately going out of one's way to mysoginistically lash out at women as a broader whole using these incredibly real and serious problems as a cruel and vindictive cudgel out of incredibly petty spite (as seen in the current crop of "Based & Redpilled" shitheads in fandom today)

B) Being willfully ignorant and purposefully burying one's head in the sand ignoring all manner of crucial evidence and self-evident examples about the stark and clear realities of the broader issues concerning rape and women's rights in the real world out of bullheaded, stubborn denial and whatever other personal hangups with the topic one might have (again, see any NUMBER of idiots within this very thread, and numerous others like it)

or C) Just being cluelessly, childishly naive about the complexities of the real world and problems like this and being too lazy, too intellectually incurious, and too myopic to do any hint of cursory reading, listening, or learning on the matter (again: see COUNTLESS examples within fandom, including far too many on this forum).

I certainly DO happen to think that, provided the context and execution are sound and thought through, that art and media SHOULD tackle incredibly taboo, painful, and sensitive subjects in a blunt and explicit manner, including rape and other matters that are perhaps even MORE delicate, and that these things SHOULDN'T just be wholesale blanket "off the table" no matter what in ANY context, do not pass go.

That Ninja Scroll example I found to have generally speaking met that criteria (certainly for DAMN sure to a FAR greater degree than COUNTLESS other examples across anime): but I'm always open to debating and discussing that sort of thing and having my mind changed.

But this isn't necessarily about the granular nuances of that specific topic, as that isn't really the heart of my problem with my (albeit unnamed) inclusion in that post of yours.

My issue is more than what I wrote on that particular topic was somehow seen, taken, or presented as in ANY WAY some kind of an equivalent to some of the more grotesque, moronic, and infantile garbage on the issue of rape and other sexual &gender dynamics within anime and anime fandom in general that was being discussed within your post: ALL of which I am 100,000% on board with sharing your mutual disgust and contempt for.

We can have a legitimate disagreement about whether or not an individual example in a given work of media handles the subject of rape in an adequately thoughtful enough manner: but do not for a SECOND put me in REMOTELY the same breath, sentence, or category as some of the blithely ignorant and belligerently dense trolls and dipshits that have been spouting some of the most retrograde, repulsive, and ghoulish swill regarding rape and sexual/gender issues within anime as a medium or fandom subculture.

Its also entirely possible that maybe we DON'T agree on rape (or other such matters) having ANY kind of a place whatsoever within art or media, and that maybe you're of the viewpoint that ANY example or instance of rape in a work of media, regardless of context or execution, is inherently not ok and is worthy of scorn and contempt just for existing at all.

Obviously I DON'T share that view whatsoever, and once again we can disagree on and debate that matter: but once again, my holding the view that something like rape CAN exist within a piece of art or media and be justified and having a valid purpose for it is in NO WAY equitable or tantamount to the kinds of horrendously backwards, retrograde views on rape and sexuality in anime/fandom that's being discussed here. There's simply ZERO comparison to be made between what I wrote within that Ninja Scroll post and what's being stated by others within this thread and other similar such threads.

Also:

Here's the problem, though. Issuing those kinds of mandates implies one or both of two things: that the artist was deliberately reinforcing these "harmful" precedents and/or the consumer is watching specifically for that content, or that certain things are just inherently off limits, e.g. LGBT people simply aren't allowed to die in movies, ever. I think both of these assertions are asinine. It's not a matter of separating the artist from the art, it's the implicit accusation that contextual "harm" in the subtext has somehow climbed into the league of actual malice.

THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE. Times a million.

This PERFECTLY encapsulates what I was trying to get across in that contentious Ninja Scroll post. Rape shouldn't be barred from just EXISTING in a work of art or media. Context is EVERYTHING, and for as many works out there use rape in a cheap and horrifically thoughtless manner (be it for cheap shock or worse, as a means of either fetishizing it, downplaying it, or otherwise doing apologetics for rape, rape culture, and justifying misogyny) there are also PLENTY of works that use it to express real pain and grief suffered by victims, to place the audience within the victim's shoes and help build empathy, as well as to make broader social statements about how women are treated, how rape is treated, and so on.

And for as many rape victims (or victims of ANY kind of horrible past trauma in their lives) recoil and feel hurt by being reminded in ANY way of what happened to them by a piece of art or media regardless of context, PLENTY of other people who've been rape/sexual abuse victims also feel a sense of genuine catharsis and relief in being confronted with it (again, within a properly conveyed context) in a manner that helps that grapple and deal with it.

Cathartic release from directly confronting a past trauma is an INCREDIBLY vital and key part of the purpose behind a TON of art. Art focusing on horrific trauma, including that of rape and sexual abuse, is even used often by psychotherapists in treating abuse victims and helping them come to grips with and move past their pain (Suzzan Blac's work being a perfectly good example).

[XanatosVanBadass]

That American idiots embrace poorly timed rape denial nonsense like Shield Hero, rape culture apologia like Goblin Slayer, or Attack on Titan with its right wing author and antisemetic implications. A poster here was even being an apologist for a pornographic rape scene from Ninja Scroll. I just... I’m done with it.

The last bolded example (regarding Ninja Scroll) was almost certainly a shot at a couple of posts I made semi-recently.
Anyone who's taken a look at any number of my posts on here (including a good deal numerous examples within this very thread here) can probably glean pretty clearly that I in NO WAY take the side of "rape apologism" in just about ANY context, including most certainly within anime and anime fandom-related matters.

I've LONG been (for literally decades now) as staunch and vitriolic a detractor of hideous and vile sexual behavior and regressive/misogynistic sexual views within both anime and its general fandom culture as any that you'll find out there. The retrograde, knuckledragging sexual politics inherent throughout a tremendously vast swath of Otaku-dom has been one of my KEY-most issues with the whole subculture for almost as long as I can remember now (which is quite a long, long ways now).

So I certainly do not in ANY way appreciate being lumped in with that grotesque, despicable lot unless its INCREDIBLY well warranted. And no, me defending the use of rape in a work of fiction when I see it as being used in a justifiable context (i.e. its played strictly for horror, its shown with empathy firmly on the side of the victim, does not in any way glorify or eroticize the act, is part of a broader relevant point to the narrative and its subtext, etc) certainly does NOT come even CLOSE to qualifying.

We can have a genuine subjective disagreement on whether or not a specific example of rape used in fiction meets those criteria: but that's in NO WAY REMOTELY the same thing or on the same level as:

A) Deliberately going out of one's way to mysoginistically lash out at women as a broader whole using these incredibly real and serious problems as a cruel and vindictive cudgel out of incredibly petty spite (as seen in the current crop of "Based & Redpilled" shitheads in fandom today)

B) Being willfully ignorant and purposefully burying one's head in the sand ignoring all manner of crucial evidence and self-evident examples about the stark and clear realities of the broader issues concerning rape and women's rights in the real world out of bullheaded, stubborn denial and whatever other personal hangups with the topic one might have (again, see any NUMBER of idiots within this very thread, and numerous others like it)

or C) Just being cluelessly, childishly naive about the complexities of the real world and problems like this and being too lazy, too intellectually incurious, and too myopic to do any hint of cursory reading, listening, or learning on the matter (again: see COUNTLESS examples within fandom, including far too many on this forum).

I certainly DO happen to think that, provided the context and execution are sound and thought through, that art and media SHOULD tackle incredibly taboo, painful, and sensitive subjects in a blunt and explicit manner, including rape and other matters that are perhaps even MORE delicate, and that these things SHOULDN'T just be wholesale blanket "off the table" no matter what in ANY context, do not pass go.

That Ninja Scroll example I found to have generally speaking met that criteria (certainly for DAMN sure to a FAR greater degree than COUNTLESS other examples across anime): but I'm always open to debating and discussing that sort of thing and having my mind changed.

But this isn't necessarily about the granular nuances of that specific topic, as that isn't really the heart of my problem with my (albeit unnamed) inclusion in that post of yours.

My issue is more than what I wrote on that particular topic was somehow seen, taken, or presented as in ANY WAY some kind of an equivalent to some of the more grotesque, moronic, and infantile garbage on the issue of rape and other sexual &gender dynamics within anime and anime fandom in general that was being discussed within your post: ALL of which I am 100,000% on board with sharing your mutual disgust and contempt for.

We can have a legitimate disagreement about whether or not an individual example in a given work of media handles the subject of rape in an adequately thoughtful enough manner: but do not for a SECOND put me in REMOTELY the same breath, sentence, or category as some of the blithely ignorant and belligerently dense trolls and dipshits that have been spouting some of the most retrograde, repulsive, and ghoulish swill regarding rape and sexual/gender issues within anime as a medium or fandom subculture.

Its also entirely possible that maybe we DON'T agree on rape (or other such matters) having ANY kind of a place whatsoever within art or media, and that maybe you're of the viewpoint that ANY example or instance of rape in a work of media, regardless of context or execution, is inherently not ok and is worthy of scorn and contempt just for existing at all.

Obviously I DON'T share that view whatsoever, and once again we can disagree on and debate that matter: but once again, my holding the view that something like rape CAN exist within a piece of art or media and be justified and having a valid purpose for it is in NO WAY equitable or tantamount to the kinds of horrendously backwards, retrograde views on rape and sexuality in anime/fandom that's being discussed here. There's simply ZERO comparison to be made between what I wrote within that Ninja Scroll post and what's being stated by others within this thread and other similar such threads.

Also:

Here's the problem, though. Issuing those kinds of mandates implies one or both of two things: that the artist was deliberately reinforcing these "harmful" precedents and/or the consumer is watching specifically for that content, or that certain things are just inherently off limits, e.g. LGBT people simply aren't allowed to die in movies, ever. I think both of these assertions are asinine. It's not a matter of separating the artist from the art, it's the implicit accusation that contextual "harm" in the subtext has somehow climbed into the league of actual malice.

THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE. Times a million.

This PERFECTLY encapsulates what I was trying to get across in that contentious Ninja Scroll post. Rape shouldn't be barred from just EXISTING in a work of art or media. Context is EVERYTHING, and for as many works out there use rape in a cheap and horrifically thoughtless manner (be it for cheap shock or worse, as a means of either fetishizing it, downplaying it, or otherwise doing apologetics for rape, rape culture, and justifying misogyny) there are also PLENTY of works that use it to express real pain and grief suffered by victims, to place the audience within the victim's shoes and help build empathy, as well as to make broader social statements about how women are treated, how rape is treated, and so on.

And for as many rape victims (or victims of ANY kind of horrible past trauma in their lives) recoil and feel hurt by being reminded in ANY way of what happened to them by a piece of art or media regardless of context, PLENTY of other people who've been rape/sexual abuse victims also feel a sense of genuine catharsis and relief in being confronted with it (again, within a properly conveyed context) in a manner that helps that grapple and deal with it.

Cathartic release from directly confronting a past trauma is an INCREDIBLY vital and key part of the purpose behind a TON of art. Art focusing on horrific trauma, including that of rape and sexual abuse, is even used often by psychotherapists in treating abuse victims and helping them come to grips with and move past their pain (Suzzan Blac's work being a perfectly good example).

Ok first, thank you for replying. You’ve made some good points, but it was my Ninja Scroll reference that I KNOW got your goat. So transparent. Anyway, I don’t hate Ninja Scroll. In fact I enjoy the film to a point. However, I acknowledge the fact that certain parts are just gross and am willing to put stuff I like behind me. Most of your (lol) points amounted to excuses as to why you like something.

[Polyphase Avatron]

There's only one anime/manga involving rape scenes that I can think of that I am a fan of - Berserk. Those scenes certainly aren't portrayed as good, inconsequential, or played for laughs. I don't know how other people here would categorize Berserk's use of rape but I think it is treated as a serious issue with major consequences in that series.

[XanatosVanBadass]

There's only one anime/manga involving rape scenes that I can think of that I am a fan of - Berserk. Those scenes certainly aren't portrayed as good, inconsequential, or played for laughs. I don't know how other people here would categorize Berserk's use of rape but I think it is treated as a serious issue with major consequences in that series.

Berserk is excellent. Though let’s see how it ends before judging... as if it’ll ever end lol.

[Kunzait_83]

Ok first, thank you for replying. You’ve made some good points, but it was my Ninja Scroll reference that I KNOW got your goat. So transparent. Anyway, I don’t hate Ninja Scroll. In fact I enjoy the film to a point. However, I acknowledge the fact that certain parts are just gross and am willing to put stuff I like behind me. Most of your (lol) points amounted to excuses as to why you like something.

First of all, like I said in the previous post, my response here wasn't about the specifics of that post: it was about what I wrote there being put in the same category as the kinds of retrograde fans and viewpoints being discussed here. THAT'S my issue, and I don't appreciate having other intentions projected onto what I said. I don't in ANY WAY do "subtle" or "implied" when I talk about shit like this: I'm as blunt and direct as a sledgehammer. So when I say "this is what my concern is", it is PRECISELY that.

Secondly, I'm also not so petty as to place me liking a given piece of media above actual, substantive real world matters. I think I've also made my views on that more than apparent in this very thread. Given some of the shit I myself thrown at a TON of crap that I grew up liking over the years.

I'll be the first to admit for example that the original Fist of Fury with Bruce Lee is horrifically racist in its depiction of the Japanese (I say as someone for whom Bruce Lee and his films was and remains a big damn deal), and I make ZERO apologies whatsoever for the sickeningly dumb and vile far right wing politics of most Golan-Globus/Cannon films, despite my enjoying many of them a great deal since I was little.

Fist of the North Star - which I'm known to love FAR MORE than Dragon Ball by substantial orders of magnitude - also has some SIGNIFICANT issues regarding how women are handled in the overall totality of its run, and I am in NO WAY shy about talking about that up front.

And of course we ALL know what a racist piece of shit Lovecraft was and that as wonderful as his books are in most other respects, they are still FILLED with grotesque and sickening racist subtext: and Lovecraft was indeed a VERY important cornerstone to me growing up as a horror nerd. I think I'm more than sufficiently self-critical and honest about the weaknesses of my own interests and most passionately beloved works.

If something I like happens to have horrible issues regarding gender, race, politics, or whatever else, I don't have the slightest problem with calling it out as such, no matter how dearly held a favorite it might be to me.

It just so happens that I - *gasp* - might indeed just genuinely and sincerely disagree on the subject of the rape scene in Ninja Scroll! And I've stated my reasons plainly and in detail already, so I won't rehash them here as, like I said, that isn't the point. I only bring it up now because like I said: I don't like having ulterior intentions projected or read into what I say, particularly since I tend to go VERY far out of my way to be as blunt, open, and transparent about my intent in what I say at virtually ALL times.

And like I said: the original point of my responding here was because of the broader implication that something that I wrote about the subject of rape in a particular anime (regardless of what that anime happened to be) was being used to place me in remotely the same basket as the rape-denying, victim-blaming, misogynistic fuckmooks populating threads like this one/the fanbase in general.

And since you've brought it up now and have made it part of the convo here: what I wrote regarding that particular anime came from a place of what I genuinely and legitimately think of its use of rape, rather than from whatever fondness I hold for it: I even conceded up front several issues it has regarding its handling of gender within the very post in question, and I reiterate time after time in that post that Ninja Scroll is in NO WAY some masterful, perfect work that is without any flaws or pockmarks: either in general, or in its handling of women within certain, key moments.

[JulieYBM]

Here's the problem, though. Issuing those kinds of mandates implies one or both of two things: that the artist was deliberately reinforcing these "harmful" precedents and/or the consumer is watching specifically for that content, or that certain things are just inherently off limits, e.g. LGBT people simply aren't allowed to die in movies, ever. I think both of these assertions are asinine. It's not a matter of separating the artist from the art, it's the implicit accusation that contextual "harm" in the subtext has somehow climbed into the league of actual malice. On the example of Shield Hero, I agree that the timing is bad. I do not agree that an author isn't allowed to write a story with a false rape accusation, that the author is complicit in the agenda of those who would use that kind of thing as ammo, or that those who watch the show are fixated on that content or at the very least somehow perpetuating a harm on the demographic in question.

To speak only of my own concern with regards to the subject of fiction GSRM characters dying in media: my issue is where the only GSRM character dies, typically as if to pretend that the creator is making a point. This is typically done in works led by cishet people, as opposed to works led by GSRM people. Cishet creators should not be making tragedy porn about us. On the other hand, a GSRM creator creating a GSRM Peter Pan retelling with every single character being some piece of the GSRM scale and with not a single cishet person in sight? Sure, GSRM characters are going to have to die. Give me sexy transfemme Captain Hook being eaten alive by a crocodile!!

As a woman I am also not entirely opposed to the inclusion of what Shield Hero did with it's false accusation so long as it is made very clear that the story and creator do not assert that 'women lie about rape'. Once more, I am not entirely confident in a cishet man writing about that subject because they are historically self-aggrandizing and I cannot trust them to actually write about such a storyline on a general unsupervised basis. Too many real women are falsely accused of lying about rape, we don't need careless cishet men muddying the waters.

[Scsigs]

I used to buy into the idea someone told me. “Separate the art from the artist!” And while that’s all well and good, I’m still enjoying something that causes others pain. The idea of separating art from artist is a privileged WHITE male concept.

For one, that's not "separate the art from the artist." That applies to the people who created, or helped create, the art in the first place, not the people in the audience of it. That'd be more of judging a piece of art by observing it yourself over going off of an overzealous or unintended fanbase.

Two, that statement doesn't just apply to white artists. I get what you're saying of where it comes from, but the statement doesn't apply just to one group.
For instance, Michael Jackson, a black man, has been repeatedly hit with allegations of sexual misconduct with minors, as we all know, since 1993. Whether you believe he's guilty or not, his music is as incredibly influential as The Beatles & entire generations have grown up with his music, new generations grow up to discover it, & that cycle will continue. His influence was definitely felt at the beginning of this decade with a ton of the older Millennials entering the Pop music scene that grew up listening to his music &/or people who were highly influenced by him in the years prior. A lot of people have separated him from his music, or more so his allegations, to be able to still like &/or be influenced by his trailblazing, he's one of the biggest solo Pop artists of all time after all.
Vic is almost as easy for me. Since he actually has a good range of voices & the works he primarily acted in were animated, it's easy to look passed him & not feel guilty about watching them, particularly because he doesn't get paid royalties for the works if you buy a home release of them. Him singing some of the theme songs of DBZ Kai, DBGT, & One Piece as well are things I can forget about since I feel the quality of the songs goes beyond who sung them, particularly because they're covers of the originals. That's not me saying Vic is a good person because I enjoy something he did. That's me saying I can enjoy the work despite that.
Many people are going to come up in the years to come, experience the works these guys & people like them have made or been in, then probably not care about the allegations or the people behind the works because they find they can look passed them.

However, I can understand if it's hard to do this. I haven't separated Louis CK from his allegations since, while he apologized, & I believe he's grown since the early 2000s when he did the things he did, his attempted smalltime comeback & the things he chose to make fun of in his stand-up doesn't make him that sympathetic because they actively hurt the things he talked about from getting better & could influence people to not be sensitive to the big tragedies they're commenting on. Even if he didn't actually mean what he said (since some people on YT defend him by bringing up a clip from one of his specials where he admits that some of the stuff he says is to get a rise out of people because, essentially, he gets a laugh out of being a troll & seeing the reactions), the words & the manner with which he spoke them are harmful in the moment.
Another example I have problems with even more is Doug Walker. Since Change The Channel started, I haven't been able to look at a picture or video footage of the man without getting mad, which includes his most famous work, the Nostalgia Critic. This is because his work is so heavily tied to him personally & he's the face of it. He writes it, he's consistent in acting similarly in real life, & he hasn't done anything to make up for his bullshit, in fact, he's actually made fun of it or called the people liars, so he gets no points there.

These things are on a case by case basis & it depends on who you are as a person, so I get if someone else thinks about these things differently. It really depends on the severity of what you're talking about is, who you're talking about, & who you're talking about it with. To cite what was brought up after this, I have a friend who loves Goblin Slayer. I personally like Attack On Titan, though I haven't seen passed season 1 because I've been putting that off to binge the show when it's finally done, so I don't know much about the unfortunate implications that may have cropped up in it. So, it depends on the person.

[WittyUsername]

I don’t think Doug Walker ever actually made fun of the Change the Channel controversy. He mostly just pretended it didn’t exist.

[Scsigs]

I don’t think Doug Walker ever actually made fun of the Change the Channel controversy. He mostly just pretended it didn’t exist.

I mean, if the segment in the Pink Floyd's The Wall review is anything to go by, he DID. He literally put himself in the position of Pink facing an army of "internet warriors," I guess, wrote "Person you hate" on his forehead (because he's SO subtle about his commentary), then had the "internet warriors" say "Hashtag" & form ones with their arms. I saw that through various response videos people have made to him & I cringed SO hard. If that's not him making fun of that movement to any small degree & using his parody of the scenes in the movie to shit on it, I'd be VERY surprised. And he did it AFTER the movement died down again like the coward bitch he is. Doug doesn't like direct conflict, so he waits until he thinks he can get away with it to say anything unless he knows he CAN get away with it at any other point earlier.

[Cursed Lemon]

There's only one anime/manga involving rape scenes that I can think of that I am a fan of - Berserk. Those scenes certainly aren't portrayed as good, inconsequential, or played for laughs. I don't know how other people here would categorize Berserk's use of rape but I think it is treated as a serious issue with major consequences in that series.

Berserk is exactly what I was thinking of, I just finished re-watching the Golden Age Arcs the other night.

Using Casca as context, it's actually a perfect example of the topic at hand. Although we can say that Berserk "plays fair" in the sense that all three of the main characters - two males, one female - experience sexual violence, Casca's rape is the only incident that is played at length. Some of the logic of this thread would dictate that this rape scene is gratuitous and problematic specifically because 1) there are already too many depictions of female rape in cinema, and 2) some sick bastard out there would get his jollies off from it, having his preexisting sentiments confirmed that women are just devices for sexual gratification.

The former I honestly hold no opinion over, while the latter is inevitable and cannot be used in any kind of good faith to stifle creativity (else we're just going to have to stop using women in stories altogether). What truly matters is whether or not the depiction of rape was wielded effectively as a vessel for the story, and in the case of Berserk I would argue that it was handled masterfully. Femto raping Casca in front of Guts was both the culmination of a long arc detailing his psychological mutation as well as unambiguously cementing his status as an evil god. Guts had unwittingly taken everything from him - his dignity, his tribe, his path to nobility/power, his dream, and even Casca herself - and the act that he perpetrated was his extreme demonstration of vengeful recompense. In short, that rape scene was earned.

Content like this has to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis to determine whether or not it is delivered with the thoughtful gravity that it ought to. It cannot simply be swept away due to some kind of literary prejudice.

[Zinnia]

Some people on Twitter still go around thinking "Vic can be re-hired back in Funi after he wins the case because JYB is his friend and he would give him the role back!!"

Yikes. Imagine thinking Funi would EVER want the guy who sued them back.

[Scsigs]

Some people on Twitter still go around thinking "Vic can be re-hired back in Funi after he wins the case because JYB is his friend and he would give him the role back!!"

Yikes. Imagine thinking Funi would EVER want the guy who sued them back.

On top of that, JYB is his friend? What? They don't hate each other, but when did they ever say they were friends.

Also, love how the rightwing grifters are now talking about Johnny Yong Bosch because of random drama or other bullshit he's apparently involved in just because he's tangentially related tot he Vic drama because he's the new Broly. Didn't take them long, did it?

[miguelnuva1]

JYB is being accused of harassment by an account that had no proof, was not the person he supposely harassed and deleted their account when he called them out. JYB is actually defending himself and Vic supporters are saying this proves Vic was innocent.

JYB being falsely accused has no bearing on Vic being innocent or guilty.

[Scsigs]

JYB is being accused of harassment by an account that had no proof, was not the person he supposedly harassed and deleted their account when he called them out. JYB is actually defending himself and Vic supporters are saying this proves Vic was innocent.

JYB being falsely accused has no bearing on Vic being innocent or guilty.

Ah, ok. I wondered what the context was, thanks.
Yeah, that's pretty stupid & a fallacy. One does not prove the other.
Also, who in their right mind would believe Johnny Yong Bosch would harass somebody? Dude's cool & he's a really nice guy from what I've seen. Like, do people not realize that they only hurt their own causes or other people's when you lie about shit? You do nothing for anyone by not having evidence to back up your claims or just making shit up. Vic's accusations at least had people that he DID do wrong by. JYB hasn't actually done anything.

[Saiga]

If someone is going around making fake allegations against JYB, I'd assume they were a Vic supporter acting in bad faith, because they're the ones who think making fake allegations are so easy and immediately effective.

[Saimaroimaru]

JYB is being accused of harassment by an account that had no proof, was not the person he supposely harassed and deleted their account when he called them out. JYB is actually defending himself and Vic supporters are saying this proves Vic was innocent.

JYB being falsely accused has no bearing on Vic being innocent or guilty.

The Vic defenders really want to get person non-grata'ed out of the anime community don't they? Going after JYB with (presumably) false harassment accusations? Yikes.

It’s funny, I predicted how the fandom would react from the beginning for the most part. I knew the larger fandom would stand by him as the anime fandom IS just that toxic and evil (in general ). At least the ones invested in the story as I’m aware most anime fans don’t know or care either way. What baffled me is when Vic started going after Sabat and the like. I was legit curious who the fandom would side with since Sabat is crucial (for better or worse) to the dub in this fandom. And... they STILL sided with Vic and in fact want everyone BUT him fired from Dragon Ball. That was.. baffling.

Anime fans as a group are generally shitty people. Fuck it all. The only anime I support now are positive works like A Silent Voice.

I'm sorry, but that's an extremely pessimistic & bad take on this situation. The larger fandom? Like, most of the DB fandom? I'm sorry, even most of the dub's fandom didn't care that much. Literally the only people that cared or stood by him were his fans (which don't comprise a lot of the DB fandom), or right wing grifters. And then you contradict yourself & say most anime fans don't know or care. Literally not a lot of people sided with Vic against the rest of the cast outside of Monica Rial (who, let's face it, didn't endear herself to outsiders by threatening people with a lawsuit if they tweeted something she perceived as bad at her, even if it wasn't as bad as other stuff) & maybe Sean Schemmel, but he also acted like an ass at times.
The only thing I can think of that they'd be against the others about are the leaked outtakes from 20 years ago, which had NOTHING to do with Vic outside of Rekieta being shady & trying to use it as proof that Vic was innocent of any misdeeds...somehow because people, before he worked at FUNi, recorded joke takes when dubbing Z that got leaked to the public years ago & then suddenly resurfaced.

I'm sorry, but, what? Dragon Ball not being positive? The larger fandom is extremely positive. Because it's not a film about a dude who befriends a deaf girl, it's toxic? I don't believe that. Sorry, but that's just bad logic since you don't go into detail about it. I've said similar things about things that I hate about certain fandoms, so I know why you're saying that, but I don't think DB is nearly as bad as those fandoms.

I agree Dragon Ball’s fandom isn’t so bad in itself. Well, it kinda IS when you look at the RWBY fans and how they accepted for the most part Vic’s firing. I’m more kinda upset at the anime community as a whole and that goes beyond Vic. That American idiots embrace poorly timed rape denial nonsense like Shield Hero, rape culture apologia like Goblin Slayer, or Attack on Titan with its right wing author and antisemetic implications. A poster here was even being an apologist for a pornographic rape scene from Ninja Scroll. I just... I’m done with it.

What gets me about Shield Hero is the use of slavery by the MC & how very Stockholm Syndrome the relationship he has with his party. When Raphtalia had her slave crest removed & proved that she was still loyal to Naofumi, she went as far as to get the slave crest being put back on herself. It just sours me to the series as whole how hand wavish people get about that aspect of the series. Only in anime can you have a series in 2019 that has the slave owner be good guy. I know we like our characters with flaws but ugh. I watch the show but I'll never support it financially in any way.

[Saiga]

Yeah, Shield Hero's "benevolent slavery" subtheme is really gross. The series makes it clear the the MC is an asshole - he originally wanted a female slave so he could abuse her and take his frustrations at the girl who framed him on the slave, and he initially treats his child slave like shit only to warm up to them which makes Raphtalia fall in love with him and be completely loyal to him.

He gets portrayed as this really nice guy for showing some tiny decency to this slave, while the people who call him out for having slaves are portrayed as wrong and spiteful.

His justification for having slaves is because he lacks offensive abilities so he needs people to fight for him... But that kind of falls apart when he continues to keep slaves after being introduced to people who would willingly fight for him.

[miguelnuva1]

Yeah, Shield Hero's "benevolent slavery" subtheme is really gross. The series makes it clear the the MC is an asshole - he originally wanted a female slave so he could abuse her and take his frustrations at the girl who framed him on the slave, and he initially treats his child slave like shit only to warm up to them which makes Raphtalia fall in love with him and be completely loyal to him.

He gets portrayed as this really nice guy for showing some tiny decency to this slave, while the people who call him out for having slaves are portrayed as wrong and spiteful.

His justification for having slaves is because he lacks offensive abilities so he needs people to fight for him... But that kind of falls apart when he continues to keep slaves after being introduced to people who would willingly fight for him.

That's not what happens at all. The Shield Hero is mistreated by everyone when he first arrives and is set up which causes him to mistrust everyone so in return his mistrusts Raphtalia. The entire time however while he is using her he is trying to teach her to be strong and seek revenge similar to himself. He wants to show up the other heroes who doubted him and he wants her to fight for him and avenge her parents. Eventually he starts to see her in a daughter type way, such as curing her cold, feeding her and getting her a ball to play with.

Also by the time people began wanting to fight for him his slaves that are really just slaves in name only are actively wanting to fight alongside of him anyway. The slavery subplot is there to show how flawed and insecure the main character is and how he thinks everyone will leave him it is later a way for Raphtalia to show him she trusts him and we even she she was a victim of real slavery and he saved her from that.

What gets me about Shield Hero is the use of slavery by the MC & how very Stockholm Syndrome the relationship he has with his party. When Raphtalia had her slave crest removed & proved that she was still loyal to Naofumi, she went as far as to get the slave crest being put back on herself. It just sours me to the series as whole how hand wavish people get about that aspect of the series. Only in anime can you have a series in 2019 that has the slave owner be good guy. I know we like our characters with flaws but ugh. I watch the show but I'll never support it financially in any way.

That's the thing about Morality. The initial act of slavery is not necessary evil it is how the master treats slave. Chewbacca prior to the new Disney series was more or less a slave to Han Solo due to the life debt he had. There are good slave owners far and few that are simply outweighed by the bad and Naofumi even in his worst state was never a bad master. He might have been mean, short and harsh but never bad.