Vic Mignogna

[Fionordequester]

This won't make you feel any better, but the GRADE SCHOOL that I went to as a kid has taught us pretty much ALL of this stuff about black history and slavery in EXCEEDINGLY GREAT detail. Starting from the 1st fucking grade. And I went to school in a VERY poor, filthy, rundown Catholic school in an extremely poverty and drug-stricken inner city neighborhood.

Actually... that probably works in your school's favor. Your "very poor, filthy, rundown Catholic school in an extremely poverty and drug-stricken inner city neighborhood" was probably a lot closer to the weak and the oppressed than the middle-class, relatively well-off upbringing I've enjoyed for my entire life. You've lived with them, while I did not. As such...

...

...I'm ashamed to admit this... and it's something I've constantly pleaded for God's help on, but...

Well, I don't think about the weak and the oppressed. Aside from autistic children (whom I work with as a Para-educator), I don't usually go out of my way to help people who aren't in my immediate vicinity (like say, a stranger I meet at Starbucks). I don't usually care enough TO do so. I care so little, it's actually taken me most of my 25 years of living to realize that it's wrong to fight against Gay Marriage, and that I've been misunderstanding God's position on "deviant" sexuality this entire time. God clearly cares about FAR more important things, like "hypocrisy", "complacency", "hard-heartedness", "hatred", "disobedience".

Those topics are mentioned literal HUNDREDS of times... but "Homosexuality"? I looked up how many times that was mentioned in the Bible... and do you know how many times it's mentioned? FOUR times...only four times is it ever mentioned in a literal ~1200 page book... Yet somehow that ended up being the topic I was most reluctant to change my moderate stance on!

I live in a bubble. I don't talk with the weak OR the oppressed. I don't feel JacobYBM's pain. I am not moved by her suffering. I don't think about her often... and even when I do, she and so many other people I said I'd pray for drop out of my mind.

Yes, I care NOW... But, as with every other time, this will probably be a passing phase. I'm all emotional now, but, with enough time, I'll soon go back to being the mostly content, 26 year old white male, who's biggest concern is finally finding a girlfriend...

That's my reality. That's what I have to confess to God, despite how CLEAR he's always been about our duty to help the poor and the oppressed. And while I'm clearly at fault for a good part of this... I'm going to guess at least part of my problem has been a lack of exposure to the right people. That being the case, I'll bet a lot of the SCHOOLS I've gone to have had the same problem... so your experience doesn't surprise me at all.

[ssj4]

Also, please don't use SJW. Like, it's not a real insult.

I was using it in a purely clinical, descriptive sense: there ARE some folks out there who do genuinely fit the right wing strawman stereotype and go hair-trigger nuclear on anyone for even the slightest little non-offence and will call someone "racist" for something that is completely benign and innocuous.

Mind you, those people are like, a RIDICULOUSLY inconsequential minority (and who mainly congregate on social media and college campuses in certain, specific regions) and have all of jack shit of an impact on anything of any real consequence, apart from lending racist cretins with undue ammo and acting as handy "boy who cried wolf" strawmen for them to use against regular people who are fighting against very real and very blatant racism: but they DO technically exist, and unfortunately have grown to become enough of a part of these kinds of conversations (mostly due to right wing figures trotting them out time and time again the as a key part of their propagandistic narrative) that you unfortunately DO sometimes have to make the distinction at this point.

I certainly agree though that SJW, as a term unto itself, is a ridiculously godawful term even just in a pure etymological sense. Like really? Fighting for social justice is now somehow a BAD thing? Once again, pause to note the colossal irony that many of the most ardent anti-SJW goons will go around spouting racist (or racist-sympathizing, which is effectively a distinction without a difference) rhetoric and who gleefully relish in bullying women who've been sexually harassed as well as ethnic minorities who've been racially discriminated against... all while wearing t shirts and displaying memorabilia of fictional comic book characters who are famous and beloved for standing DIAMETRICALLY AGAINST every single stupid, hateful idea and notion that's coming out of their mouths and defending to the death and representing the very same kinds of oppressed, voiceless people who's mere existence seems to piss them off so much.

But in practical terms, there really isn't a better known term to use to describe the kinds of people who ACTUALLY DO fit the "blue haired scold who will call someone a literal Nazi over something ridiculously innocuous or petty" stereotype like in actuality. So unfortunately, we're kind stuck with it in that context, at least for the time being.

I only brought it up to illustrate that my highlighting Xanatos' post was absolutely NOT that (since "getting hung up over specific word choices" is a hallmark of the overzealous SJW stereotype) but rather that his specific insults and word use was something that's ACTUALLY and legitimately fucking hatefully vile and stomach churningly hideous and DRENCHED in a VAS
T (and fairly fucking well known) racist history in their use in contexts EXACTLY like this one.

They're specific enough words in a specific enough context that the likelihood of his using them being an "innocent accident" or "unintentional slip of the tongue/keyboard" is pretty much EXCEEDINGLY slim to none. That was almost 95% likely a case of "the mask slipped off there for a second" or at the very best and most charitable "the subconscious sewage bubbled up to the surface for a second".

Ah gotcha. Good point. I actually got called a SJW once for calling out some asshat for posting blackface. It's just so dumb

[ssj4]

Blackface is never just a joke for FFS. It's always racist and never acceptable. If you're going to defend it, then buzz off. This isn't worth my time.

No, YOU fuck off. You don’t get to tell others how to post, boy. Go be uppity somewhere else. Right now.

......Huh? As far as the "over sensitive SJW" stuff goes, I'm not anywhere near that; in fact, I would even say I'm slightly right-leaning when it comes to many political things, so people calling you out on this isnt just "being a super sensitive SJW" or whatever. Black face is obviously no where near defendable, and this post, as well as you, has no place being on Kanzenshuu. As if defending black face itself wasn't awful enough, the word "boy" in that way makes this post even worse. Part of me wants to think this was an unclear attempt at sarcasm, but it doesn't really seem like it. Wow...

Uppity is pretty bad

[ssj4]

Please don't let this turn into a political thread where each side is asking for the other side to be banned...

Everything is political. This thread exists because our society is producing people (men, specifically) who are harming society. Attacking the root of the problem is the only way to prevent another Mic Vignogna.

The thread exists because of the ongoing news of Vic Mignogna. Not to make tangent rant posts debating about political ideologies while ignoring the original thread. Also telling people to leave the site or asking them to be banned for having differing opinions is very immature and ridiculous.

Being racist or defending racism is not a different opinion FFS. Even an idiot can see that

[ssj4]

But really, why are Vic supporters so hellbent on defending him?

[Shaddy]

I'm more than aware that I'm a totally privileged and undereducated dude when it comes to these issues. A year or two ago I'm pretty sure I would have been a Vic defender. I was a /r/cringeanarchy "Jontron was tricked" gamergate fuckboy back in high school and I'm still confused right now as to when and how exactly that stopped being a thing. I guess I started reading RationalWiki articles slightly more often. I sure as fuck know school had nothing to do with it, I learned more about civil rights from a single visit to the Lorraine Motel/Civil Rights museum (among other similarly-educational landmarks) in Memphis than I did throughout most of school.

Though I was never a very good student either, to be honest. We definitely had plenty of discussion of racism and civil rights in schoo. I live just outside of the "oh-so-progressive" Portland (an ironic stereotype, given the whole "whitest city in America with huge homeless and sex trafficking problems" thing) and my highschool was not underfunded nor did any teachers shy away from the hard truths of stuff they were teaching, especially history. I'm not gonna say there's no chance that the education system failed me, but I'd say it's more likely that things I don't know, especially on subjects like this, were a result of me being a shitty autistic clown in school (rather than a regular autistic clown, which is what I am now).

Anyway, the point is yes, through one means or another (but mostly the one) people don't absorb a lot of shit especially regarding historical and systemic oppression and cruelty toward a number of different peoples, especially black people in America.

Also, to go back a little in the discussion, yes I am fucking tiiiired of this "I'm neutral I'm not taking a stance you all are so angry" mentality. Like, constantly announcing and advertising how little you're associating yourself with something, especially when interacting with people is something you do a lot, or are a content producer like Geekdom? It's basically transparently saying "I don't want to alienate either the good people or the bad people by stating my opinion because it could hurt my rep or lose me followers". Because it's not a case of not having an opinion. Everyone has an opinion on this if they know it's going on at all. And if you do even the tiniest fucking modicum of good research, then surprise surprise, you'll be able to find the naked truth waving it's junk directly in your face. It's not difficult to come to the conclusion that Vic is a creep at all, even if you intentionally subtract every allegation without direct in-depth evidence, even though there's really no reason to think he wouldn't be guilty of those actions as well.

If you're really going to "stay out of the situation", then don't fucking say anything. Go somewhere else. Nobody will even remember that you said nothing unless you literally broadcast "I'm saying nothing UwU" across your titties like an idiot (that was a very confused metaphor but whatever??). Publicly refusing to take a side is, in itself, taking a side.

Ah gotcha. Good point. I actually got called a SJW once for calling out some asshat for posting blackface. It's just so dumb

Uppity is pretty bad

Being racist or defending racism is not a different opinion FFS. Even an idiot can see that

But really, why are Vic supporters so hellbent on defending him?

Also, SSJ4? I don't have anything specific to add to these statements, I just want to mention that you can copy and paste quotes from people into one post, instead of making a new post for each quote. Just formats things better.

[ssj4]

In fairness, I had no idea "uppity" was racist either. I guess I'll remember to not use that one.

As someone with Autism, it's also possible (albeit slim) that he didn't even know it was racist terminology. I certainly didn't until you guys made it pretty clear they were.

Its a beyond sad and pathetic indictment of the historical/contextual bankruptcy of modern educational standards that I even HAVE to give ANYONE above the age of 5 a basic history lesson of this nature. But fine, here goes:

In the old days (like, the 1800s and early 1900s, and times when blackface in general was basically totally accepted and popular), a common term for black people who spoke up or defended themselves from racist words and rhetoric in ANY WAY was "uppity negro". That, and the condescending use of the word "boy" instead of their name or at least a simple "Mr."

Like... this is VERY basic, well known historical terminology in how white people used to talk down to black people back in the day any time one of them DARED to "talk back" or "complain" too loudly in any way. A black person who tried to fight back in ANY way and stand up for themselves were then seen among white society as being the worst, or at least most annoying and irritating, thing that a black person could be to white people back then: an "uppity negro". To be talked down to and dismissed like a misbehaving child that's acting out and throwing a tantrum in a toy store.

Again, this was VERY common (stereotypically so) dehumanizing, belittling, and outright infantilizing language against black people intended to be dismissive of them whenever they tried to fight back: language that is VERY well deeply baked into the national/cultural consciousness to the point where its basically on more or less the same general playing field as a racist calling a black person they happen to personally like and get along with "one of the good ones".

Xanatos basically replied to someone (who may well be black themselves) getting pissed about defending blackface by saying "don't get uppity with me" and referring to them as "boy". EXACTLY the sort of context that an old-school racist would use that kind of wording back in the day.

Yeah... that is WAY too fucking on-the-nose to be in ANY WAY coincidental. The BEST possible reading is that it was an INCREDIBLY piss-poor, fucking outright braindead attempt at humor and being "ironic" (same thing that countless thousands of 4chan morons have claimed is their intention when they post Klan and Nazi shit). The worst possibility... well, you get the idea.

Also telling people to leave the site or asking them to be banned for having differing opinions is very immature and ridiculous.

Xanatos wasn't taking shit from people here for "having a differing opinion": it was because he said something ridiculously, fucking garishly racist, in a manner and context that is NOT AT ALL remotely ok for ANYONE to be doing.

Setting aside the possibility he was making a (unbelievably, colossally) poor and stupid attempt at "humor" - if he was serious, then defending blackface, in general and PARTICULARLY by telling someone who is (rightly and justifiably) offended by it to "quit being uppity boy"... that's NOT a "matter of one's opinion" that you get to just have and trot out freely on a site who's owner is STAUNCHLY against giving a platform to such garbage.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and declare right now the "Mommy and daddy are fighting!" crowd to be almost approaching as grating, moronic, unhelpful, and generally awful as the outward scumbag hate-mongers and sexual assault-apologists. If the worst thing in the world to you ISN'T people being hurt in real life and their attackers lionized and protected en-masse by people within your own fandom (or just, y'know, in general) but rather its the fact that people are getting (VERY correctly and justly) angry and heated about something legitimately serious that actually matters and has real stakes for real people's safety and well-being:

You are the very textbook definition of a total fucking pussbag spineless coward, and the only party in any of this that your lame-ass, impotent whining is helping or benefiting are the people who are doing the victimizing. There isn't ANY way to sugarcoat this: this is one of those instances unfortunately where if you're not part of the solution, then you are at a bare minimum helping to at least SLIGHTLY nudge along the problem.

If some harsh words and a stern tone are all it takes to set you off and try to pull some kind of dimwitted, myopic, disingenuous "both side-ism" bullshit ("The problem is EVERYONE is taking this TOO SERIOUSLY and NEEDS TO CALM DOWN and be CIVIL to one another! EVERYONE'S entitled to their opinion: even if that opinion is that sexual assault is perfectly ok and a victimless crime!"): then honestly, it would be FAR better for EVERYONE involved if you just left the thread entirely and stayed out of it completely.

If you don't have enough skin in the game or enough of a fucking backbone in general to take a genuinely principled stand against even some of the most indefensibly sick, twisted slime pouring from the mouths of some of the people involved in this clusterfuck and say unequivocally "This shit is NOT fucking welcome or acceptable here."... then honestly, its better you just shut the hell up and clear out of the way rather than lay in the middle of the road and act as ultimately just another useful idiot to the Redpill-leaning freaks and sickos by furthering and bolstering this completely idiotic false-equivalence that "Both sides are entitled to their opinions, and no one is right or wrong here, and the worst possible thing that anyone can conceivably do here is yell at someone and hurt their feelings slightly."

This isn't a fucking "Which musical score to a 1980s & 90s Japanese kids cartoon do you prefer?" thread: this is about not just real life crimes with real life victims (who's personal physical safety to whatever degree is a legitimate cause of concern), but yes, its also about the MUCH deeper - and indeed quite poisonous - social, cultural, and psychological underpinnings at play in not just the people who COMMIT these crimes physically, but moreover the rest of society around them that ALLOWS them to continue committing them by either just looking the other way or worse by actively PROTECTING them.

The usual "Keep everything Shonen" rules of the site simply DO NOT and CANNOT apply in this particular case. Either have something legitimately useful or constructive to add, or else go find a Power Rangers or Yu-Gi-Oh fan forum somewhere else to wallow in for awhile and get the fuck out of everyone else's way. Period.

Because then otherwise your continuing to hang around a thread/conflict that you claim is bothering and distressing you so much with how heated its getting and doing nothing but continuing to basically paint the situation as "both sides are totally equal" (which again only helps and lends undue legitimacy to the pro-Vic goons) calls into question how supposedly "neutral" on this matter you ACTUALLY are deep down.

Yes, I am black in real life and the dudes language is disgustingly racist. Thank you for this.

[ssj4]

Also, did people really give 200K for Vic? Why? What the???????

Urgh, this is why nerd culture has a bad rep

[KBABZ]

Ah gotcha. Good point. I actually got called a SJW once for calling out some asshat for posting blackface. It's just so dumb

Uppity is pretty bad

Being racist or defending racism is not a different opinion FFS. Even an idiot can see that

But really, why are Vic supporters so hellbent on defending him?

Also, SSJ4? I don't have anything specific to add to these statements, I just want to mention that you can copy and paste quotes from people into one post, instead of making a new post for each quote. Just formats things better.

Also don't quote an entire Kunzait post FFS! Nor should each post be a unique sentence. This is a message board, not a chat room, and we have an Edit button if you have something you want to add to a post you already made.

[ssj4]

Monica cancelled her Kamehacon appearance. No surprise

[Champa The Destroyer]

No, YOU fuck off. You don’t get to tell others how to post, boy. Go be uppity somewhere else. Right now.

......Huh? As far as the "over sensitive SJW" stuff goes, I'm not anywhere near that; in fact, I would even say I'm slightly right-leaning when it comes to many political things, so people calling you out on this isnt just "being a super sensitive SJW" or whatever. Black face is obviously no where near defendable, and this post, as well as you, has no place being on Kanzenshuu. As if defending black face itself wasn't awful enough, the word "boy" in that way makes this post even worse. Part of me wants to think this was an unclear attempt at sarcasm, but it doesn't really seem like it. Wow...

Uppity is pretty bad

Oh I agree, just "boy" was like the first part of that post that caught my attention out of all awful crap that was said in that post.

Also, abut politics in general, I'm probably not as informed as I should be, and yes, I am a teen (teens aren't exactly known for having well informed opinions ) though I would like to think I'm at least slightly more informed than some other people my age, considering I've had over a year to sit on the couch and do nothing but read about political matters. That's kinda what being stuck at home with a heart illness does to you lol

[PFM18]

Wow, 112 pages? I thought this whole Vic scandal was sort of over and done?

[The Patrolman]

Wow, 112 pages? I thought this whole Vic scandal was sort of over and done?

HA no. This shit got bigger

[Kunzait_83]

...I'm ashamed to admit this... and it's something I've constantly pleaded for God's help on, but...

Well, I don't think about the weak and the oppressed. Aside from autistic children (whom I work with as a Para-educator), I don't usually go out of my way to help people who aren't in my immediate vicinity (like say, a stranger I meet at Starbucks). I don't usually care enough TO do so. I care so little, it's actually taken me most of my 25 years of living to realize that it's wrong to fight against Gay Marriage, and that I've been misunderstanding God's position on "deviant" sexuality this entire time. God clearly cares about FAR more important things, like "hypocrisy", "complacency", "hard-heartedness", "hatred", "disobedience".

Those topics are mentioned literal HUNDREDS of times... but "Homosexuality"? I looked up how many times that was mentioned in the Bible... and do you know how many times it's mentioned? FOUR times...only four times is it ever mentioned in a literal ~1200 page book... Yet somehow that ended up being the topic I was most reluctant to change my moderate stance on!

I live in a bubble. I don't talk with the weak OR the oppressed. I don't feel JacobYBM's pain. I am not moved by her suffering. I don't think about her often... and even when I do, she and so many other people I said I'd pray for drop out of my mind.

Yes, I care NOW... But, as with every other time, this will probably be a passing phase. I'm all emotional now, but, with enough time, I'll soon go back to being the mostly content, 26 year old white male, who's biggest concern is finally finding a girlfriend...

That's my reality. That's what I have to confess to God, despite how CLEAR he's always been about our duty to help the poor and the oppressed. And while I'm clearly at fault for a good part of this... I'm going to guess at least part of my problem has been a lack of exposure to the right people. That being the case, I'll bet a lot of the SCHOOLS I've gone to have had the same problem... so your experience doesn't surprise me at all.

I'll be honest: that took a LOT of genuine guts and honesty to come out and admit to like that. I gotta give you a TON of serious credit for having enough sincere intellectual honesty and self-reflective awareness to be even WILLING to go there and entertain these realities of your own volition.

That inability and unwillingness to face the possibility that "I'm wrong, things that I believed in staunchly aren't actually true and the world is MUCH bigger than just me and what I think/feel" is one of THE single biggest mental barriers that's preventing most of the Redpill, alt-right, MRA, etc. movements (and in many cases, even just conventional mainstream conservatives, at least in a U.S. standpoint) from realizing the obvious folly, hypocrisy, and harm that their thoughts, words, and actions are causing others.

So on a VERY basic, fundamental level, I want to say THANK YOU for having at least enough humility to begin looking outside of and beyond "the bubble" as it were. From the bottom of MY heart now: you have absolutely NO idea how PROFOUNDLY important and legitimately outright transformative that willingness to look outside of that sheltering actually is, ESPECIALLY at this particular point in time.

"The bubble" that you're VERY accurately and wonderfully describing here is something that by now I am VERY familiar and well acquainted with, thanks in a GREAT large part to my time spent on these forums the past 14 years (Jesus fucking Christ), and "the bubble" has been at the heart and core of virtually ALL of my problems with not just the Kanzenshuu community overall (like going back to its VERY beginnings as a forum in the mid-2000s), but also the broader modern day Western anime fandom and overall "nerd culture" of the 2000s and now 2010s. The bubble is in many ways THE single overarching problem that's embodied pretty much ALL of my collective issues with modern day fandom as a whole.

When people around here have viewed me throughout the years as a "cranky old man who's just bitter at the younger generation", what's ACTUALLY been going on at the heart of all of my shitting on and heavy criticizing of younger fans is something that I've often alluded to a LOT in my older posts around here (even some of the ones I didn't erase) as being "part of a MUCH bigger, broader problem with fandom as a whole that extends WAY beyond just Dragon Ball or anime in general". Those vague allusions to "a much bigger topic" that I've kept as a recurring motif in a LOT of my posts going back more than A DECADE ago? That topic is indeed The Bubble.

Specifically, the sheltering bubble of middle class white suburban comfort and complacency. That bubble has literally been THE elephant in the room with ALL of the issues with the community on here that I've gone on and on and on about at length on this forum going back more than a decade+ ago now.

But setting all of that aside for now: thank you once more Fionord for actually having the kind of courage and genuinely Christian humility (as a Catholic school survivor myself ) and humbleness to look at the world outside of your own perspective and try to see it the way others are seeing it instead. And moreover, for having the balls to come out here and openly talk about it with admirable blunt honesty.

Seriously: absolute respect and my hat off to you just for taking that first step forward that SO many others who were raised similarly to you tend to almost pathetically cower away from even going near and being man enough to admit to what you found when looking at yourself through a different set of eyes. I can only hope and encourage you to keep going on that path of empathy and intellectual curiosity for the broader world and the continued willingness to look at the world outside of just your own eyes and through the perspectives of others.

[KBABZ]

Look out everyone, that Wuxia thread is goin' down!

[Cure Dragon 255]

What do you mean by that.

[Shaddy]

It means Kunzait's Wuxia thread is a really really long and in-depth series of posts and it will look paltry compared to this other thread he's going to make.

[Kunzait_83]

Look out everyone, that Wuxia thread is goin' down!

Edited down my above post. I'm still gonna make that thread at some point for sure, but I don't want to derail the topic here with me babbling on too much about my own stupid bullshit. This topic is and should be focused squarely on the issue of Mignogna's victims, Vic and his defenders, and sexual assault more broadly speaking.

[SaiyamanMS]

The bubble is absolutely a big thing at the centre of a lot of all this. I grew up in a white middle class family myself where I was heavily sheltered and generally prevented from seeing the world as it really is. When I was very young, I saw the world as very black and white, right and wrong sort of deal. But as I grew, I came to realise that wasn't the case and I knew there was more to things than what I was seeing despite being kept away from it. For many years, I had the privilege of presenting as a cisgender heterosexual man, this changed when I came to terms with the fact I was actually a transgender lesbian woman and got violently disowned by my mother.

While I don't regret my transition, I do lament some of the privilege it has cost me. The world isn't always a kind place to minorities. Most people I interact with are great, but there have absolutely been a few shitty experiences I've had that wouldn't have happened to a cishet white male. The idea that "I don't see this problem, therefore it doesn't exist." is a shitty position to have, which seems to be the angle a lot of Vic supporters seem to have. "If sexual harassment is so common, why haven't I seen evidence?" Because the people who do this shit are covert about it and you're not the kind of person it happens to.

[KBABZ]

What do you mean by that.

It means Kunzait's Wuxia thread is a really really long and in-depth series of posts and it will look paltry compared to this other thread he's going to make.

What Shaddy said, haha.

I'm in a bubble myself but I'm aware enough to be open to a wide variety of things like the gender spectrum and race and such things. My parents helped me with that viewpoint thankfully. I'm just not very well-learned about them overall, hence why I don't see myself as someone who hates people who are black and yet I had no idea about the uppity thing, which I'll try to remember to not use ever from now on.