JulieYBM wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:57 pm
This is just hilarious to me. Wow. I don't get men.
I'm a man, and I've NEVER even PRETENDED to understand what it must be like for someone to have and be so consumed by these kinds of obsessive fixations and hangups. Same goes for most of my own guy friends, as well as literal tons
of other men out there who are left equally mystified and baffled by the whole alt-right/MRA/Manosphere/Redpill phenomenon.
That's because this isn't actually a "man" problem: its an idiot problem. Full stop.
Or to be more precise and less dismissive: its a problem with overly-sheltered and under-educated man-children - a large percentage of whom tend to typically fall somewhere on the autism/aspergers spectrum and are often horribly under-treated for it throughout their lives - who are grossly lacking in introspective self-awareness and are filled to the brim with misdirected anger and frustration for problems in life that in a great many cases (though certainly not all) are almost entirely their own fault and their own making.
There's certainly a decent amount of such people out there: but thinking that they encompass all or even a majority of the male population (even among "traditionally masculine" dudes) is just as off-base and fundamentally incorrect/false as pretty much any other kind of stereotyping out there for such a large group of people.
For as much as the internet makes it seem like these kinds of people are endlessly legion in number, trust me: there's no shortage of men in the world who don't
have these bizarre hangups & fixations and who - more or less - have their basic-most shit together. They're what people in these Redpill/Manosphere communities might derisively dub as "normies" - i.e. people who are healthy, well-rounded, and functional and who aren't completely mentally and emotionally broken to their cores.
Though that being said, while plenty of such people can and do indeed have plenty of niche, dorky interests and hobbies, it does indeed certainly help a great deal for someone to much more often hang around outside (maybe even FAR outside) of insular and socially awkward "nerd" spheres in general in order to actually meet and come into contact with more of them.
But yeah, I've talked a bit about this before in this very thread, but it bears repeating (as its a mistake a LOT of people, both in right wing circles and just in general, tend to make): "toxic masculinity" is NOT the same thing as just plain 'ol regular masculinity. People who possess very heavily masculine traits (behavioral, personality, emotional, psychological, physical, etc) but who otherwise are 100% mentally and emotionally healthy and stable individuals are in NO WAY whatsoever an issue, and are plenty
large in number out in the world overall.
Toxic masculinity, if anything, very often tends to typically be much more of a prevalent problem MUCH more often in men who tend to feel as if they're somehow LACKING in masculine traits (that they obsessively deify and place on a ridiculous pedestal) and are attempting to GROSSLY over-compensate. Toxic masculinity stems most centrally from insecurity, self-doubt, ignorance, inner-weakness, and fear: all of which are VERY un-masculine traits obviously.
Toxic masculinity, if I had to pin down a definition for it, is what happens when people who see themselves deep, deep down as weak, inadequate failures in life, respond to their fears by lashing out angrily and viciously at the world around them, particularly at anything or anyone they view as non-masculine/feminine. And that's because things that they see as un-masculine remind them strongly of that which they hate most, which is themselves and their lack of strength, as they (VERY much falsely) equate masculine traits with strength.
Ergo, anything or anyone that they see as non-masculine (i.e. "strong") they equate with weakness: which ultimately is how they see themselves. So they externalize their self-loathing by lashing out violently and almost psychotically at the external thing they've mistakenly view as symbolizing their own weakness and failings in life.
ALL of this of course is utterly deranged - and self-destructively obsessive - nonsense. Masculine traits are simply exactly that: behavioral and physical traits that some people have more or less of than others, and that some people personally identify more or less strongly with than others. NOTHING about masculinity inherently denotes or has a damn thing to do with "strength" in the truest sense of the concept (nor for that matter with morality in either direction): that idea is simply a total and completely arbitrary - wait for it - social construct
: something that society has made up from wholecloth going back countless centuries now.
Fundamentally and unquestionably, people who are 100% secure, at east, and comfortable with themselves in their own skin DO NOT and WILL NOT give a rat's ass about how "masculine" or "feminine" other people are. If you identify as highly masculine or highly feminine, and you're totally at peace with that part of yourself, you're simply NOT going to fucking give the slightest iota of two shits which or how much of either of these traits other people around you opt to express or embody day to day. There's NO inner-turmoil or conflict about their own identity and sense of self that's constantly raging inside their head: there's no existential crisis stemming from miss-perceiving abstract concepts like gender norms and behaviors as avatars for strength and weakness.
This psychosis that I'm describing is literally where the VAST overwhelming majority of things like homophobia and transphobia ultimately stems from: queer and non-binary people, because they don't slot themselves in neatly with a black and white "standard" of gender norms and traits (said "standard" being a complete and utter bullshit arbitrary societal invention in the first place), just their mere EXISTENCE within proximity to deeply insecure and self-repressed man-babies acts (entirely
in their minds) as an existential threat to their very identity and sense of self.
Using just myself as an easy, quick example: by and large I'm very decidedly masculine in my behavioral & physical traits as well as my core identity as a person. Always have been. Moreover, I've pretty much NEVER in my life felt that these aspects of my personality and identity were in ANY remote way "weakened" or "under threat" from anything, ever, at any point.
I've got a few more feminine traits as well of course (literally ALL OF US are some mixture of the two, no matter one's physical/biological sex, because people are fundamentally complex and multifaceted creatures both psychologically and sociologically), but by and large I've always 100% identified and behaved/carried myself as a fairly masculine dude. Its so naturally ingrained into who I am, that its never been any sort of issue that's weighed on my mind or caused me to loose a wink of sleep at night over it. Not for one second of my life at any point.
As such... I simply do not give a flying fuck what masculine or feminine traits other people decide or don't decide to express and by how many degrees. I don't care if people around me identify as men or as women (regardless of their original sex at birth), I don't care if they (consensually of course) decide to fuck the same sex, the opposite sex, or both, nor in which combinations or configurations. As long as no one's being forced or pressured into it, it simply does not fucking matter one iota.
This same exact sentiment generally applies to most men - up to and including even very overtly "masculine" ones - who are totally comfortable and secure in their masculine identity. When you're at peace with yourself and comfortable with who you are, things like what other random people are doing with and among themselves sexually tends to not really bother you at all because why the fuck would they?
In essence you just mind your own fucking business, live your own life, and let other people live theirs. Overwhelmingly, queer and non-binary people just as equally don't (nor should they) give two shits what straight/binary people choose to do with their sex lives and gender expressions as well.
The problem of course is when you have people - especially a large enough group of them, particularly when they're all gathered about in a psychologically self-harming online echo-chamber - who AREN'T secure or at ease with themselves and their own identities and self-images, and who furthermore have done barely an OUNCE of serious introspection and self-reflection about these things in their entire lives.
When such a LARGE amount of real-estate in one's subconscious is so heavily preoccupied with (and indeed outright DROWNING in) crippling fear, anxiety, and self-doubt about one's basic-most fundamental root core as an individual - when one's basic psychological and emotional foundations are so weak and wobbly almost every second of one's day to day - that's when toxic masculinity tends to assert itself and become expressed in the form of someone trying to almost fanatically
stamp out and drive away from their view any remote
hint of what they see around them in other people as "weakness" or that reminds them of what they themselves feel that they lack deep, deep down.
Its over-compensation along with a healthy amount of denial (while far from universal, the number of toxically masculine guys who wind up turning out to be gay or trans themselves is nothing short of staggering
a lot of the time) and psychological projection.
This is basically most of the reason why these people get SO FREAKED OUT over shit that has literally NOTHING to do with them and ultimately has ZERO bearing on their lives or their own actual problems. If you're truly not gay or trans and are a 100% cis/hetero man, then guess what? Literally nobody cares!
Not one diddly shit!
No one anywhere has ANY REMOTE interest in forcing you to fuck people of the same gender as you or have your genitals surgically altered or your hormones replaced or whatnot. What other people decide to do with their sexuality and how they opt to express their gender norms, it has absolutely less than ZERO impact on you in the slightest.
Toxic masculinity is a form of completely irrational, overwhelmingly panicky fear and anxiety stemming from deep, DEEP existential self-doubt and lack of self-confidence and self-esteem. Its a psychological and emotional mania: it IN NO WAY has a damn
thing to do with average, healthy, ordinary masculinity, but rather if anything the (perceived) lack of it.
And sadly, this psychological complex has gripped a TON of socially alienated, emotionally vulnerable and confused young men in today's current climate, much of which stems from a combination of A) godawful and neglectful absentee parenting or strong family bonds in their home lives and B) the continued deterioration and decay of global economic models and frameworks, creating MASSIVE and ever-growing levels of poverty and economic disparity.
You combine the sense of hopelessness and despair for a dark future ahead that comes from the economic collapse that much of civilization around us is currently undergoing, along with a general lack of basic direction and identity that comes from a lethal combo of bad/negligent parenting, untreated psychological/neurological issues, social isolation and alienation from a complete lack of real life friends and support network, and just the usual hormonal angst that comes with being a teenager or 20-something on top of all that
: and you've got an IMMENSELY corrosive, toxic stew of a sociological powder keg that's primed to go off in an immensely
And as if all that weren't bad enough on its own, this hideous brew of mass simultaneous personal existential meltdowns among throngs of young guys is being further spurred on and steered/misdirected online
100% intentionally by cravenly opportunistic political forces
: many of them with both direct and indirect ties to Neo Nazi and white supremacist hate groups and organizations
(Breitbart, Stormfront, The Daily Stormer, and various far right wing think thank organizations with deep, deep pockets like the National Policy Institute, and to name just a few).
So you've also got ghoulish political networks out there
who are basically hijacking this giant morass of misdirected youthful anger and frustration within socially isolated online communities
(gaming, anime, comic books, etc) made up of emotionally broken and lonely misfits
who are desperately lacking in healthy relationships, positive emotional outlets, and genuine social experience
, and are providing them with handy and convenient scapegoat targets
(the usual suspects of black and brown people, women, gay/trans/queer people, etc) alongside a heaping helping of brainwashing political indoctrination
that steers them straight into a more overtly fascistic ditch
: largely via online forums and social media platforms
like 4chan and Youtube and the like
Thus you get the alt-right, GamerGate, Redpills, MRAs, Incels, Proud Boys
, and all these various cult-like, ultra authoritarian and fascist subcultures online
who are collectively hijacking a FUCKTON of the national dialogue and discourse
as of the past 5 or 6 years or so now, and who've collectively introduced all of this absurd and asinine terminology (Soyboy, Chad & Stacy, beta-cuck, NPC, etc) into the mass cultural lexicon, and who make idiotic and ridiculous fake "controversies" out of even the most dumbass and petty shit, like this whole Vic thing within this particular neck of the fandom/geek cultural wilderness (i.e. Dragon Ball fandom) as just one of about a bazillion other examples.
This post right here:
Fionordequester wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:39 pm
Um... Shoot. My gosh. We've all been saying that this whole conflict was never about Vic Mignogna himself. Rather, it was part of some dumb culture war against the "SJWs".
...Well. Here's a KiwiFarms member coming right out and saying it.
Lone MacReady wrote: [E]ven if Vic doesn't win everything, he still wins. He's at least got Soye/Rial on lock, Funi isn't escaping either imo - but even if they do, there are still 2nd party shitheads to deal with like Funi's mouthpiece ANN and potential couch-keeper Sabat. Funi's brand gets more tarnished by the day, Toei is eyeing their Spanking-paddle, Sony is an outed WOKE censorious joke (with companies like RT and CR not far behind in the race to the bottom), and now even the hardest of hardcore dub shills are finding reasons to swear off dubs for good and to support Japan at the source.
At the end of the day all of this centers around a general push-back against the SJW co-opting of anime, Vic's lawsuit was just the catalyst for it. Even if he doesn't win everything, this event has done damage to malicious parties and outed animu-licensing for being the incestuous Left-leaning industry it is. While minor antagonists like RT may get out scott free - this case has and is STILL irrevocably damaging Funimation's brand/employees, and is showing Japan that their properties are not in good hands. Never forget that simply spreading the word to normies is probably the best weapon at our disposal. In the best case scenario where Vic cleans house, its a double-win because that court precedence will help many MANY men in the future to stay safe from lying old THOTs.
Is proof positive of what I'm talking about here. For quite awhile now, there's been a MUCH bigger, overarching political battle going on with gaming/anime/geek culture having been roped into the center of it going back to the early GamerGate days 6-ish years ago (and a fair bit longer than that honestly, if we're tracing this all the way back to its real roots).
Considering the communities and subcultures involved, it was only a matter of time before something to do with Dragon Ball fandom eventually got pulled into the vortex. And here we are with this Vic thing.
As clearly demonstrated, while there's certainly some decent percentage of naive, clueless FUNimation dub stans who are obsessively loyal to Vic at play in this (and they're playing the dutiful role of Useful Idiots), a LARGE bulk of this at its centeral core has little to nothing to do with any real, serious interest in FUNimation or Dragon Ball. Rather, this is just another - largely manufactured - controversy that's being purposefully stirred, heightened, co-opted, and used as a vehicle by online trolls as part of a much larger political movement that's been brewing, developing, and raging fiercely within all manner of various online nerd community spaces in general.