Vic Mignogna

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Shaddy
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Shaddy » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:55 pm

Frerichs has a little bit, I'm pretty sure.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by gokaiblue » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:59 pm

XanatosVanBadass wrote:
gokaiblue wrote:So, I just heard that Vic plans on suing the woman who accused him. Will be interesting to see how this turns out
Hmm have a source on that? Not calling you a liar, I’m just curious.
It was posted in the FB Vic Mignogna fanclub group. I heard it from a friend who is a member in there

EDIT: Found the tweet. https://twitter.com/Trashpandi/status/1 ... 75072?s=19
Last edited by gokaiblue on Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:03 pm

To some guys defending Vic... kissing underage girl that you don’t know on cheek, is damn weird in Europe as well. Maybe not in some eastern countries, but you get the idea!

I can kiss my friend I know for some time, but doing it to strangers is pretty weird even when adult. Some of you deserve a slap across the face from a girl, because you don’t know how to behave, clearly... go to a mall and try to hug strange girls, if it is normal in your opinion. Must be more fun in country with the right to hold a gun.

I am just angry, when I have to read stuff like this disrespecting women.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Cursed Lemon » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:03 pm

Doctor. wrote:If you understand what a working-class environment is like, then surely you must understand how much more of a toxic environment it is when it comes to genuine bigotry. What Vic did would be classified as nothing more than general playfulness among most working-class members. If you think most of the working-class are "monstrous assholes" then that's your prerogative, but I'm not willing to condemn an entire group of people because they're less sensitive and more hardened than the liberal middle-class and elite that exploit them.
Really? A "locker room talk" soundbyte, Mr. President?
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Doctor. » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:06 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:Trust me a lot of members on here are working class.
Did I say they weren't? A lot of the members attacking those they disagree with are middle class liberals, however.
MasenkoHA wrote:JFC. It’s not just a “kiss on a cheek” it’s a grown ass middle-age men acting HIGHLY inappropriate around teenage girls. A man who has had a known history of hitting on underage girls loooooong before this all came to immediate attention in light of the #MeToo and #TimesUp movements.

Look, I’m not about to make any assumptions of your personal life or upbringing but I am a little concerned that you can look at the pictures and see nothing wrong with that between a fully grown adult male and teenage girls.
It's a grown man being playful and flirtatious with his fans and coworkers. That's all there is to it. Was he creepy? Yes, I said as much already, at least twice. Do I think he deserves all the push-back he's been getting? No, not really, at least based on the information we have available, or else you'd have to go after millions of others. And considering how at least one of the photos is being spread around even though the girl supports Vic and had her mother's consent, I once again say that just because a few felt uncomfortable, and they have my sympathy if they did, does not mean he held any malicious intent.
MasenkoHA wrote:Or that Monica Rial can come forward of her personal experience with him and you want to maintain your “innocent until proven guilty” mantra
ABED wrote:"Innocent until proven guilty" only applies in a legal context.
I don't think you two are reading what I'm saying. I never once said he was "innocent until proven guilty" precisely because I accepted from the start that he was guilty of everything he was being accused of. But that does not mean I accept that feeling uncomfortable in a social situation withdrawn from any sexual activity translates into a malicious and conscious effort to sexually assault someone. As for Monica Rial, then obviously I'm in the "let's wait for what she has to say" camp, I'm not eager to crucify the man for what may be, again, misunderstood playfulness, general creepiness or social awkwardness, or unwanted sexual advances.
Marlowe89 wrote:And yet you've posted four times since you said that. Personally, I find that very amusing.
This "gotcha!" of yours won't work when the circumstances surrounding the discussion have changed. If people had kept replying to my points, then I would have held true to my word, but instead they insist on attacking me either directly or indirectly and making assumptions about what kind of person I am and what kind of life I've had. I replied to Kunzait because he was generally being hostile, I replied to Zephyr because he made an interesting point only tangentially related to the discussion, and I posted now because of certain comments that pertained to me.

When the circumstances change and people turn this personal for no reason, then, yes, I get invested. I have to wonder what you think my agenda is, because I have none. If more grievous accusations arise, then I'll switch sides and admit I was wrong.
Marlowe89 wrote:I think it's interesting that you're repeatedly attacking (and assuming) the class and nationality of people who don't agree with you instead of just sticking to the argument at hand. Not only does it demonstrate a concerning lack of self-awareness on your part, it's textbook ad hominem and adds nothing to this discussion. Maybe your energy would be better spent engaging their position rather than spouting some ignorant nonsense about "mean middle-class liberals don't understand the world!" while flaunting your ignorance as to why the legal system works to counteract the same kind of non-consensual advances Vic has consistently made towards his fans.
Now at the risk of sounding like I'm victimizing myself, because I don't care for that sort of thing, I think I'm entitled to retaliate when people assume what my life was like, indirectly claim I'm ignorant/sheltered/whatever other ad hominems thrown, and try to fit me in their reductive boxes of political opponents to defeat even though I tried to remain civil. At the very least, I am using observable cultural and perceptual differences between classes and nationality. It is the truth that the middle-class is generally far more sensitive than the hardened working class, and it is also the truth that Americans are generally much more obsessed with matters of sex than the rest of the world. Did I strike a nerve?

Also:
Marlowe89 wrote:while flaunting your ignorance as to why the legal system works to counteract the same kind of non-consensual advances Vic has consistently made towards his fans.
Not sure where this comes from. Not once did I make an argument on the grounds of legality. Mostly because 1. I don't pretend to know the first thing about American law, and more importantly, 2. what is legal is not necessarily good and what is illegal is not necessarily bad.
Marlowe89 wrote:For fuck's sake, man, get a clue. Most people are smart enough to avoid doing this stuff with underage girls they don't know. If you actually considered the context of the situation - more specifically the complete non-relationship between the perpetrator and his subjects - you'd very easily realize this is far more inappropriate than an "innocuous greeting". The fact that more egregious allegations exist and have existed for a long fucking time certainly doesn't help your case either.
I honestly don't know who you're arguing with, because you're just projecting things I never said. Nor do I know what I've done for you to get this heated. I didn't say Vic was smart, nor did I say he wasn't being creepy, awkward or inappropriate. I said that those do not necessarily imply maliciousness, and that everything he has been accused of doing certainly does not constitute sexual assault.
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Claiming others lack empathy while simultaneously ignoring the perspectives and experiences of others and decreeing an entire group of people to be "monstrous assholes" is the epitome of hypocrisy.
Cursed Lemon wrote:Really? A "locker room talk" soundbyte, Mr. President?
Literally zero idea about whatever you meant by this.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by eledoremassis02 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:12 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
eledoremassis02 wrote:Has it not occurred to anyone that these people simply don't warrant a response period, especially if said people continue to respond with unconstructive responses?
Saying nothing is complicity.
Complicity is refusing to believe any of the victims and blindly supporting Vic without any evidence, not refusing to continue a conversation with a one or two people. I'm not here to tell you how to run your forum but perhaps, since these individuals with no human empathy have not been banned or reprimanded, then they have not broken the rules. Perhaps you should redefine said rules so that you are not complicit in giving them the outlet to speak that you are so against.

This isn't adding anything to the conversation and I refuse to pursue this further, I said all that I have to say.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by ShadowBardock89 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:14 pm

Shaddy wrote:Frerichs has a little bit, I'm pretty sure.
You're right:
https://twitter.com/KaiserNeko/status/1 ... 5516177408
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=40715&start=20#p1439892
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:14 pm

My comment wasn't aimed at anyone specifically. I believe in not jumping to conclusions, but this isn't a court of law. I don't have to wait for a guilty verdict before I reach my own conclusion on an issue. There's more than enough stories over the years to justify at the very least shunning the guy and publicly condemning his actions. I don't believe in mob "justice", but I would definitely steer clear of the man.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:21 pm

I think this discussion will do us no good... we discuss Dragon Ball primarily and issues like this are out of bounds... Why? Because some of us can treat women like our equals and have normal and healthy relationships and some of us are just watching animated cartoons and behave like unsympathetic cretins and now we know who dows. But I do believe, that people can change, mature and grow and maybe, some of us, mostly men of course, who think that violating personal space of someone is OK, will rethink their ways and try to get into a mind of the fellow person.

You know, when Vic hugs you like this for example, it asks for a punch in the face, but you simply won’t do that right? Instead, you feel awkward and there is this smell of shit around the name of your favorite actor.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by PFM18 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:21 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
PFM18 wrote:If this isn't a strawman fallacy, then I don't know what is.
"Mmm, yes, appeal to authority" and "oh ho ho, if this isn't a strawman fallacy, then I don't know what is" is really good "I just wrapped up my Logic, Reason, and Persuasion 101 course." Hats off to you folks for your continued education.

We're talking repeated sexual assault here, though, so, maybe let's not.
Alright so logical fallacies don't apply if we are talking about something that is emotionally charged? We can just throw around logical fallacies in this case? Yeah, "Maybe let's not" use legitimate, logically coherent argumentation? Alright, cool.
Marlowe89 wrote:
PFM18 wrote: So, are you just going to pretend that he didn't follow that by saying "But people keep throwing potshots at me" or what?
I'm not pretending anything, I left that part out because it wasn't relevant. If he feels strongly enough about it to keep coming back because he thinks he's being insulted (not that it really matters, since we're mostly anonymous people on an online forum) then he shouldn't have kthxbye'd everyone in the first place, don't you think?

Say what you mean and mean what you say.
Hey, I'm not saying you should say one thing and do another, I'm with you there. Just saying that it's intellectually disingenuous to not include that piece of information in your response. Usually, when you say you are leaving a thread, you assume that it means nobody is going to be insulting you when you're gone.
Last edited by PFM18 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Scsigs » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:25 pm

ShadowBardock89 wrote:Scsigs... They ARE going to replace Mignogna. If Funimation replaced Mignogna in Morose Mononokean, then there is no doubt someone else will voice Broly from this point forward (I'm not sure about the home release of DBS: Broly, though).
Mignogna's done for.
Oh. Didn't know about THAT till now. Thanks for the info.
Again, though, I don't think they'll recast Broly in DB material. Outside of video games, he doesn't voice the character much. He's most likely recorded all the dialogue he needs to for the upcoming FighterZ DLC, so ArcSys probably won't care to rerecord the dialogue for English, since they're in Japan & everyone who's ever bought FighterZ has already given them their money, so they won't care & it's up to Bandai Namco for any future games to keep him as part of the cast or not, since they just use FUNi for their cast. And I don't think FUNi's gonna rerecord Broly's dialogue for the movie. Now, if Toei continues Super & either adapts this movie as an arc, or bring him back at any point, we'll see what happens. Should be interesting.
Depending on if they can find a decent enough soundalike, we won't know if he'll be recast as Sabo in One Piece as well. The only actors they've ever replaced for that dub are either ones who're unavailable (like Troy Baker being replaced as Helmeppo due to taking more jobs, especially union ones, in California), or ones that've died (like Cole Brown who was the voice of Blackbeard till he died over 2 years ago), so it'll be even more interesting when they start dubbing the episodes & movies again.
Shaddy wrote:I don't think we should be so hasty to say they absolutely will. Funimation is a company. They're going to weigh this as a cost/benefit analysis. Is the press of "this company got rid of a total creep" worth not having a voice actor that people recognize? If he is expunged it's not going to be because it was the right thing to do, it'll be because they can afford it and want to be recognized for it.
Even then, look at his Filmography. He has plenty more jobs from Viz & other companies in California than he does FUNi. Broly's been his only consistent role for them over the years. My point has been stated several times already, so it's more of if FUNi wants to bother. Replacing him as that character in Morose Mononokean is pretty inconsequential, since he only voiced him in 1 episode so far, so it's fine to find a voice double depending on when that one appears next. He's pretty synonymous with Broly, so it's something they're gonna wanna think on because of the reasons I've mentioned.
XanatosVanBadass wrote:And yet he’s still selling out at every venue he appears in. Despite the articles written about how poorly timed and unfunny his new material is, he’s proven to be killing on stage even to the point of getting standing ovations. He’s not where he once was, true, but he’s slowly getting there regardless of the narrative a few articles are pushing.
Yeah, and I was hoping he'd eventually do that. I mean, I don't even think what he did was as bad as most of the other people who've been revealed to be, & proven to be, huge pervs. I'm just saying he's not doing it right. What he did was bad, understand, & his re-emergence into stand-up was very much expected, so I'm not surprised. However, he's just not doing it right in my opinion.
Kataphrut wrote:Also, not sure how it's relevant at all to this discussion, but...Chris Sabat has actually hired a bunch of new actors to play his old characters recently (one of whom was Mignogna as Burter in Kai, oops) and hasn't added any new ones to his roster in years apart from Super Shenron which hardly counts. He probably voices fewer regulars than Masako Nozawa at this point, that complaint is old news.
I mean, Sabat only did that because FUNi has the money & talent pool to do so. Literally he had to voice over 75% of the characters because FUNi was a smaller company at the time. Same reason they didn't care to have proper translations for their scripts, since they had to market directly to kids to get merch money. Also the 90s.
Masako Nozawa only voices the characters she voices because they couldn't be bothered to find other actresses even when they easily could've. That's the difference.
Last edited by Scsigs on Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by PFM18 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:39 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Twenty-four pages in and a wealth of information later, dehumanizing talk without a shred of basic human empathy doesn't continue to warrant coddling responses. See: prior points on decorum.

Again: we'll listen to your thoughts on replacement music, but we don't actually have to listen to "all of these people are lying and I believe in my heart everything is OK so therefore it is don't mind me while I roll out the classic playbook here."
I've read through a considerable amount of this thread and I don't see anybody being dehumanized, or their being any lack of empathy being exhibited.

Being objective about it and saying "Yeah, Vic is wrong here, but this isn't sexual assault nor is he a pedophile" is not fucking dehumanizing anybody. It's absolutely disgusting to throw around accusations of sexual assault the way it is being done in this thread. It marginalizes actual victims of sexual assault, and for the millionth time, even though Vic is wrong, he deserves to be judged fairly instead of this blatant hyberbolic garbage we are seeing. His conduct is very inappropriate and he most certainly deserves to be reprimanded, but his misconduct is being extremely exaggerated if we are going to just be erroneously accusing him of felonies as though the distinction doesn't mean anything. Absolutely none of the pictures, or accounts in that article constitute sexual assault, and it is insulting to actual victims of sexual assault to lump these together.

Let me use the same analogy I used before; If you refer to somebody having a serious medical condition, and somebody who's sad they aren't on vacation anymore, both as "depression" then it marginalizes and insults those who legitimately have depression. The same applies here. As somebody who knows several sexual assault victims, I'm sure they wouldn't be happy to hear that their cases are being lumped in together with kissing people on the cheek inappropriately.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by IM21 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:46 pm

PFM18 wrote:
I've read through a considerable amount of this thread and I don't see anybody being dehumanized, or their being any lack of empathy being exhibited.

Being objective about it and saying "Yeah, Vic is wrong here, but this isn't sexual assault nor is he a pedophile" is not fucking dehumanizing anybody. It's absolutely disgusting to throw around accusations of sexual assault the way it is being done in this thread. It marginalizes actual victims of sexual assault, and for the millionth time, even though Vic is wrong, he deserves to be judged fairly instead of this blatant hyberbolic garbage we are seeing. His conduct is very inappropriate and he most certainly deserves to be reprimanded, but his misconduct is being extremely exaggerated if we are going to just be erroneously accusing him of felonies as though the distinction doesn't mean anything. Absolutely none of the pictures, or accounts in that article constitute sexual assault, and it is insulting to actual victims of sexual assault to lump these together.

Let me use the same analogy I used before; If you refer to somebody having a serious medical condition, and somebody who's sad they aren't on vacation anymore, both as "depression" then it marginalizes and insults those who legitimately have depression. The same applies here. As somebody who knows several sexual assault victims, I'm sure they wouldn't be happy to hear that their cases are being lumped in together with kissing people on the cheek inappropriately.
I agree. If a hug and a kiss on the cheek is sexual assault, I have been sexualy assaulted at least 50 times just 1 month ago for the new years. Now if I went to a convention and saw what Vic is doing to others, I would have said to him, ''Hey, I just want a normal picture, without a hug or a kiss''. And then, if he'd still kiss or hug me I'd punch him in the face. I for sure wouldn't go to twitter 5 years later.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:52 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote:since these individuals with no human empathy have not been banned or reprimanded, then they have not broken the rules.
People have been publicly told, people have received strikes, and people have received bans. We don't have to announce when each and every single one of these things take place, but yes, they're taking place.
PFM18 wrote:I've read through a considerable amount of this thread and I don't see anybody being dehumanized, or their being any lack of empathy being exhibited.
I would posit that you are exhibiting a lack of empathy and are unable to recognize it elsewhere in this thread. See also:
IM21 wrote:I for sure wouldn't go to twitter 5 years later.
This. This right here. After 25 pages, do we have to keep sitting these people down in a rocking chair and re-explaining things to them over and over? Do we have to keep being polite to the same people over and over when they're not interested in it?

A classic definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Feeling moderately insane right now.
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Dooiney » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:56 pm

PFM18 wrote:Absolutely none of the pictures, or accounts in that article constitute sexual assault, and it is insulting to actual victims of sexual assault to lump these together.

Let me use the same analogy I used before; If you refer to somebody having a serious medical condition, and somebody who's sad they aren't on vacation anymore, both as "depression" then it marginalizes and insults those who legitimately have depression. The same applies here. As somebody who knows several sexual assault victims, I'm sure they wouldn't be happy to hear that their cases are being lumped in together with kissing people on the cheek inappropriately.
I can confidently say that I don’t find it insulting to have them “lumped in” with me. It’s not a club and exclusivity has no business being part of this subject.

I’ve already written about the technical aspects of “actual sexual assault”, and how intent doesn’t matter in this case.

The depression argument isn’t a 1:1 comparison. “Sexual assault” isn’t a colloquialism that people take lightly.

Also, the pictures are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the allegations.
Last edited by Dooiney on Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by PFM18 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:00 pm

Dooiney wrote:
PFM18 wrote:Absolutely none of the pictures, or accounts in that article constitute sexual assault, and it is insulting to actual victims of sexual assault to lump these together.

Let me use the same analogy I used before; If you refer to somebody having a serious medical condition, and somebody who's sad they aren't on vacation anymore, both as "depression" then it marginalizes and insults those who legitimately have depression. The same applies here. As somebody who knows several sexual assault victims, I'm sure they wouldn't be happy to hear that their cases are being lumped in together with kissing people on the cheek inappropriately.
I can confidently say that I don’t find it insulting to have them “lumped in” with me. It’s not a club and exclusivity has no business being part of this subject.

Also, the pictures are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the allegations.
Well, I guess you only speak for yourself and I was simply postulating about what I would expect and giving my opinion on the matter.

I didn't see any evidence whatsoever of sexual assault in that article. I only saw inappropriate conduct being labeled as sexual assault when it demonstrably is not.
IM21 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
I've read through a considerable amount of this thread and I don't see anybody being dehumanized, or their being any lack of empathy being exhibited.

Being objective about it and saying "Yeah, Vic is wrong here, but this isn't sexual assault nor is he a pedophile" is not fucking dehumanizing anybody. It's absolutely disgusting to throw around accusations of sexual assault the way it is being done in this thread. It marginalizes actual victims of sexual assault, and for the millionth time, even though Vic is wrong, he deserves to be judged fairly instead of this blatant hyberbolic garbage we are seeing. His conduct is very inappropriate and he most certainly deserves to be reprimanded, but his misconduct is being extremely exaggerated if we are going to just be erroneously accusing him of felonies as though the distinction doesn't mean anything. Absolutely none of the pictures, or accounts in that article constitute sexual assault, and it is insulting to actual victims of sexual assault to lump these together.

Let me use the same analogy I used before; If you refer to somebody having a serious medical condition, and somebody who's sad they aren't on vacation anymore, both as "depression" then it marginalizes and insults those who legitimately have depression. The same applies here. As somebody who knows several sexual assault victims, I'm sure they wouldn't be happy to hear that their cases are being lumped in together with kissing people on the cheek inappropriately.
I agree. If a hug and a kiss on the cheek is sexual assault, I have been sexualy assaulted at least 50 times just 1 month ago for the new years. Now if I went to a convention and saw what Vic is doing to others, I would have said to him, ''Hey, I just want a normal picture, without a hug or a kiss''. And then, if he'd still kiss or hug me I'd punch him in the face. I for sure wouldn't go to twitter 5 years later.
Well it's still important to note that all kisses on the cheek aren't the same you're kind of using a false equivalence. Among my family members, it isn't extremely infrequent for us to kiss each other on the cheek, but that isn't at all analogous to a middle aged man kissing a child on the cheek without consent. And as far as "going to twitter 5 years later", that's not really taking into account the uncomfortable nature of coming out with these sort of things. If other people are voicing the same concerns, then it is easier for more to come out too. It isn't as though these people are inconspicuously coming out years later for no reason. .

Still, it isn't sexual assault. It isn't dehumanizing victims to assert that claiming this is sexual assault isn't fair. It's also, well, completely fucking ridiculous.
Last edited by PFM18 on Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Doctor. » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:06 pm

Dooiney wrote:Also, the pictures are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the allegations.
People keep saying this, but I haven't seen anything else.

It's the pictures kissing and hugging fans, which are harmless by themselves, some of which are being spread around even though the people in those pictures are on Vic's side.
It's the allegations that he's rude to employees and a narcissist, which makes him an asshole.
It's the fan groups and having fans' numbers, which makes him a creep.
It's the accusation by another voice actor that Vic "violated" him by playfully forcing him to give him a piggy-back ride; that same voice actor is now being accused of sexual harassment himself.
It's Monica Rial's allegation, which she hasn't elaborated on yet.

What exactly are we missing?

Also, nobody is dehumanizing anyone. We all have sympathy for the people who felt uncomfortable, but feeling uncomfortable is different from being sexually assaulted, mainly because what's 'uncomfortable' to someone is impressionistic and subjective.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by PFM18 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:11 pm

Doctor. wrote: Also, nobody is dehumanizing anyone. We all have sympathy for the people who felt uncomfortable, but feeling uncomfortable is different from being sexually assaulted, mainly because what's 'uncomfortable' to someone is impressionistic and subjective.
It is extremely concerning that this even needs to be said at all.

It's intellectually disingenuous to describe a piggyback ride as "shoving his junk against my neck." That's ridiculous. I'm still having trouble getting over that crap.

As @Doctor. explained very well, he was inappropriate but none of this constitutes sexual assault.
VegettoEX wrote: I would posit that you are exhibiting a lack of empathy
Well then you would be wrong in that respect.
are unable to recognize it elsewhere in this thread. See also:
Alright, maybe you're right there. My bad.

Dooiney
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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Dooiney » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:27 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Dooiney wrote:
PFM18 wrote:Absolutely none of the pictures, or accounts in that article constitute sexual assault, and it is insulting to actual victims of sexual assault to lump these together.

Let me use the same analogy I used before; If you refer to somebody having a serious medical condition, and somebody who's sad they aren't on vacation anymore, both as "depression" then it marginalizes and insults those who legitimately have depression. The same applies here. As somebody who knows several sexual assault victims, I'm sure they wouldn't be happy to hear that their cases are being lumped in together with kissing people on the cheek inappropriately.
I can confidently say that I don’t find it insulting to have them “lumped in” with me. It’s not a club and exclusivity has no business being part of this subject.

Also, the pictures are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the allegations.
Well, I guess you only speak for yourself and I was simply postulating about what I would expect and giving my opinion on the matter.

I didn't see any evidence whatsoever of sexual assault in that article. I only saw inappropriate conduct being labeled as sexual assault when it demonstrably is not.
It meets the legal criteria of being sexual assault whether you agree with it or not. Hugs and kisses can be considered part of sexual intimacy. When it is a middle-aged man and a minor that cannot legally give consent, unfortunately it does meet that criteria and yes, there could be a case for it. It doesn’t matter what his intentions were. These are full-on embraces with young women.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. This really, really sucks. More than anything I want to believe he just got too wrapped up in his ego and pandering to his fans and made some major bad calls, but I’m not about to do or say something to make any victim feel invalidated.

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Re: Vic Mignogna

Post by Marlowe89 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:30 pm

Doctor. wrote: This "gotcha!" of yours won't work when the circumstances surrounding the discussion have changed.
Nice try, but that wasn't a "gotcha" (more of a passing observation, really) and the circumstances haven't changed at all. You said that you would stop posting in this thread because you didn't care enough about the subject to continue, which, as we now know, is bullshit because you do care. You don't get to whine about people "making assumptions" when you've been doing exactly that against everyone who disagrees with you throughout this thread. Your lack of self-awareness and overall disingenuous attitude is already obvious, but it became doubly apparent when you had the gall to demand we stop painting broad strokes while going on this ridiculous tangent about Americans and non-Americans in the same breath. It's hypocritical and generally just pretentious.

Again, say what you mean and mean what you say so people won't have to call you out on your childish approach to these discussions. Put your big boy pants on and start acting like an adult.
Doctor. wrote:It is the truth that the middle-class is generally far more sensitive than the hardened working class, and it is also the truth that Americans are generally much more obsessed with matters of sex than the rest of the world.
Where are your sources for this?
Doctor. wrote:Did I strike a nerve?
Now there's an actual "gotcha", as well as a rather poor attempt at baiting. For the record, I grew up in a low-class family within a small town neighborhood riddled with crime, drug deals and murder. I have a number of people in my family who have been sexually assaulted, so I'm particularly invested in this subject. I am much better off financially now and currently live in a thriving city, but only because I busted my ass to get here.

And no, I've been relatively calm with you. You're the one who consistently has all these kneejerk reactions because you're so easily offended about your position being attacked. "Stop being so sensitive".
Doctor. wrote:I don't pretend to know the first thing about American law
I don't think you know the first thing about laws in a multitude of countries around the world. A ton of them have systems in place to dissuade this kind of harrassment.
Doctor. wrote:I honestly don't know who you're arguing with, because you're just projecting things I never said.
I'm arguing with the person who specifically claimed it was innocuous and doesn't consistute sexual assault, i.e. you, because it isn't innocuous and it does constitute sexual assault. Hugging, kissing, and face-cuddling someone without their consent, especially complete strangers, is sexual assault. That's why I say you're not looking at the context. Instead, you isolated the fact that he hugged someone or kissed them on the cheek and then disingenously tried to portray it as an innocuous greeting without taking any of the external factors into account. To be frank, it's quite clear that you're out of your depth.

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