What Bardock do you prefer?

[Grimlock]

In the special, somewhere around the beginning, he is said to have a power level close to 10,000 approaching King Vegeta's,

The comparison between Bardock and King Vegeta comes from the English dub. In the Japanese version it doesn't exist and King Vegeta isn't even mentioned at all.

[SaiyanGod117]

I see thanks, but overall his strength wasn't of a lower class warrior unlike his Minus counterpart.

[Marlowe89]

The comparison between Bardock and King Vegeta comes from the English dub. In the Japanese version it doesn't exist and King Vegeta isn't even mentioned at all.

While this is true - and also something I'd admittedly forgotten about myself - it's important to note the original language states Bardock's battle power to be around 10,000 after invading Kanassa. King Vegeta's battle power was far below 18,000 (his son's battle power as of the Saiyan arc) since Prince Vegeta as a child had already surpassed King Vegeta. The dub line is an unnecessary extrapolation, but I can't imagine their strength being too far apart during that period.

What's more, the Japanese dialogue touches on Bardock being a remarkable and special warrior on at least three occasions during the special, despite his lower-class status.

[Goe]

Thanks for your replies. I'm gonna count this new votes now:

Old Bardock: Kunzait_83, doctor, Potara-Warrior96, ShadowBardock89

New Bardock: SSJGogeto, CJStricker_CBR

Both: Uncutpokemon

Again, if I has some mistake, please tell me.

Tai Lung, about if is a inconsistence or not, I think Grimlock explained this very well in this same thread.

ABED, you have argued here about old Bardock's power level, but you haven't said wich Bardock do you prefer? Could you say it, pleasd? Thanks

[KBABZ]

Thanks for your replies. I'm gonna count this new votes now:

Old Bardock: Kunzait_83, doctor, Potara-Warrior96, ShadowBardock89

New Bardock: SSJGogeto, CJStricker_CBR

Both: Uncutpokemon

Again, if I has some mistake, please tell me.

Tai Lung, about if is a inconsistence or not, I think Grimlock explained this very well in this same thread.

ABED, you have argued here about old Bardock's power level, but you haven't said wich Bardock do you prefer? Could you say it, pleasd? Thanks

Is this poll important or something?

[Goe]

For me is important as the Bardock fan I am. Of course, is not as important as my family, friends, job and etc, but is an important poll inside my hobbies.

By the way, I won't force nobody to vote. I have suggested ABED to vote, but is a suggestion and not an order.

(Hope this is correct english since I'm a spaniard)

[ABED]

They were never that meaningful given that they were used as a plot device to subvert expectations. When was it stated his power rivaled King Vegeta's? What scene specifically did they state this or his battle power? Even so, so what? It doesn't take away anything from Goku and it shows that Saiyan culture is bigoted. It didn't matter how strong he got, Bardock would always be treated as low class.

In the special, somewhere around the beginning, he is said to have a power level close to 10,000 approaching King Vegeta's, and I don't know why are you getting so defensive. I'm just letting you know that his power level wasn't of a low-class warrior if you read my previous post you would see I agreed with you.

How was my response "getting defensive"? I was asking questions so I could understand where you got your information because so much of information people get isn't from the story, but from guidebooks, the dub, or worse yet, the Dragon Ball wiki.

The class system on Planet Vegeta isn't a meritocracy. It's based on strength at birth. Vegeta still considers Goku a lower class fighter regardless of how strong he got.

As for which Bardock I prefer, thus far it's the one from the original TV special.

[MajinMan]

Old Bardock and it’s not even close. There’s nothing interesting about the new one, and I think he actually hurts some of the themes presented in the show. I’m sure most of us have heard that argument a million times before, so I won’t get into it.

The old Bardock didn’t care for his son because he was a low class warrior. He saw him as worthless. Then after he got multiple visions into the future, Bardock realized that his son will grow up strong and face Freeza. That’s the only reason he started to care about him. He wanted him to avenge the Saiyans. He also saw the death of Planet Vegeta, and tried to convince everyone to gang up on Freeza with him, but they all thought he was crazy. Old Bardock was a bad dude, but he was also a tragic character at the end of the day.

The new Bardock is a happily married dad that likes his kids and just wants to “protect something for once.” Also, he’s the only Saiyan with even the smallest ounce of intelligence, making every other Saiyan look really stupid and worthless. The end. That’s all you get. No character development, cares about his low class son, and saves him not because he thinks Goku will grow up strong, but because he loves him. Bleh.

[Bruma rabu]

Old Bardock and it’s not even close. There’s nothing interesting about the new one, and I think he actually hurts some of the themes presented in the show. I’m sure most of us have heard that argument a million times before, so I won’t get into it.

The old Bardock didn’t care for his son because he was a low class warrior. He saw him as worthless. Then after he got multiple visions into the future, Bardock realized that his son will grow up strong and face Freeza. That’s the only reason he started to care about him. He wanted him to avenge the Saiyans. He also saw the death of Planet Vegeta, and tried to convince everyone to gang up on Freeza with him, but they all thought he was crazy. Old Bardock was a bad dude, but he was also a tragic character at the end of the day.

The new Bardock is a happily married dad that likes his kids and just wants to “protect something for once.” Also, he’s the only Saiyan with even the smallest ounce of intelligence, making every other Saiyan look really stupid and worthless. The end. That’s all you get. No character development, cares about his low class son, and saves him not because he thinks Goku will grow up strong, but because he loves him. Bleh.

What? No character development? The old Bardock has almost zero character development, he pretty much stayed the same from beginning to end. As for the visions, he had no idea what he was seeing until the very end as he was dying. Only thing he knew for sure was that they were going to die.
For the new Bardock, how do you know that he likes his kids?? In the movie gine states that it's strange for him to worry about his kids. Ergo he didn't give them much thought prior. As for the other saiyans being "stupid and worthless" they had good reason to believe that Freeza wouldn't exterminate them. Stated in the movie by the other saiyan that Bardock was talking to, they were the main force in Freeza army.
He saw saving his son as his redemption. The movie pretty much sates that he was a bad person, that he's done bad things. Once he realized that he was going to die he reflected on his past actions. That's why he says “protect something for once". That's more character development in like 5 minutes than the whole 40 in the original special.

[ABED]

Old Bardock and it’s not even close. There’s nothing interesting about the new one, and I think he actually hurts some of the themes presented in the show. I’m sure most of us have heard that argument a million times before, so I won’t get into it.

The old Bardock didn’t care for his son because he was a low class warrior. He saw him as worthless. Then after he got multiple visions into the future, Bardock realized that his son will grow up strong and face Freeza. That’s the only reason he started to care about him. He wanted him to avenge the Saiyans. He also saw the death of Planet Vegeta, and tried to convince everyone to gang up on Freeza with him, but they all thought he was crazy. Old Bardock was a bad dude, but he was also a tragic character at the end of the day.

The new Bardock is a happily married dad that likes his kids and just wants to “protect something for once.” Also, he’s the only Saiyan with even the smallest ounce of intelligence, making every other Saiyan look really stupid and worthless. The end. That’s all you get. No character development, cares about his low class son, and saves him not because he thinks Goku will grow up strong, but because he loves him. Bleh.

What? No character development? The old Bardock has almost zero character development, he pretty much stayed the same from beginning to end. As for the visions, he had no idea what he was seeing until the very end as he was dying. Only thing he knew for sure was that they were going to die.
For the new Bardock, how do you know that he likes his kids?? In the movie gine states that it's strange for him to worry about his kids. Ergo he didn't give them much thought prior. As for the other saiyans being "stupid and worthless" they had good reason to believe that Freeza wouldn't exterminate them. Stated in the movie by the other saiyan that Bardock was talking to, they were the main force in Freeza army.
He saw saving his son as his redemption. The movie pretty much sates that he was a bad person, that he's done bad things. Once he realized that he was going to die he reflected on his past actions. That's why he says “protect something for once". That's more character development in like 5 minutes than the whole 40 in the original special.

Given that it was 5 minutes, I can't imagine it was particularly well done.

Perhaps it's not character development, but Bardock dying knowing his son whom he thought was worthless would be the one to finally stand up to Freeza is a great moment.

[Bruma rabu]

Given that it was 5 minutes, I can't imagine it was particularly well done.

Perhaps it's not character development, but Bardock dying knowing his son whom he thought was worthless would be the one to finally stand up to Freeza is a great moment.

I'm assuming you haven't seen the movie by the way you worded that. In my opinion it was done extremely well given the limitations they had to tell that story. I cared more about Bardock in those 5 minutes than in the original. I was surprised how much I liked it. While he didn't see the future he also stood against Freeza in the new version too. The music and visuals were very beautiful and heart breaking.
Ps. I don't necessarily think character development = good but I seen this use to discredit the new Bardock when in fact it's the other way around.

[Dbzfan94]

Thanks for your replies. I'm gonna count this new votes now:

Old Bardock: Kunzait_83, doctor, Potara-Warrior96, ShadowBardock89

New Bardock: SSJGogeto, CJStricker_CBR

Both: Uncutpokemon

Again, if I has some mistake, please tell me.

Tai Lung, about if is a inconsistence or not, I think Grimlock explained this very well in this same thread.

ABED, you have argued here about old Bardock's power level, but you haven't said wich Bardock do you prefer? Could you say it, pleasd? Thanks

Include me on Old Bardock.

[ABED]

Given that it was 5 minutes, I can't imagine it was particularly well done.

Perhaps it's not character development, but Bardock dying knowing his son whom he thought was worthless would be the one to finally stand up to Freeza is a great moment.

I'm assuming you haven't seen the movie by the way you worded that. In my opinion it was done extremely well given the limitations they had to tell that story. I cared more about Bardock in those 5 minutes than in the original. I was surprised how much I liked it. While he didn't see the future he also stood against Freeza in the new version too. The music and visuals were very beautiful and heart breaking.
Ps. I don't necessarily think character development = good but I seen this use to discredit the new Bardock when in fact it's the other way around.

By care do you mean like? You don't have to like a character to find them interesting. The nth iteration of the same character doing very similar things will not pull on my heart strings. I also don't find "maybe my son will be my redemption" to be compelling.

[Bruma rabu]

Given that it was 5 minutes, I can't imagine it was particularly well done.

Perhaps it's not character development, but Bardock dying knowing his son whom he thought was worthless would be the one to finally stand up to Freeza is a great moment.

I'm assuming you haven't seen the movie by the way you worded that. In my opinion it was done extremely well given the limitations they had to tell that story. I cared more about Bardock in those 5 minutes than in the original. I was surprised how much I liked it. While he didn't see the future he also stood against Freeza in the new version too. The music and visuals were very beautiful and heart breaking.
Ps. I don't necessarily think character development = good but I seen this use to discredit the new Bardock when in fact it's the other way around.

By care do you mean like? You don't have to like a character to find them interesting. The nth iteration of the same character doing very similar things will not pull on my heart strings. I also don't find "maybe my son will be my redemption" to be compelling.

No I ment care, as in I was invested in his story and character. How many iterations of Bardocks story is there? I'm only aware of 2 the special and Toriyamas version.
I did think it was compelling.

[ABED]

There's the TV special, Dragon Ball Minus, and now this.

I don't find it compelling because there is no redemption for those acts.

[Bruma rabu]

There's the TV special, Dragon Ball Minus, and now this.

I don't find it compelling because there is no redemption for those acts.

The movie is pretty much minus only expanded a bit. Maybe redemption wasn't the right word. I just ment that all the bad he's done, he now acknowledges it that he was bad. For his final moments he used them trying to do some good. I found that compelling.

[KBABZ]

There's the TV special, Dragon Ball Minus, and now this.

I think there should also be a special mention (and by "special" I mean "Ugh, really?") for Episode of Bardock that ties itself to the original Bardock Special.

[ABED]

There's the TV special, Dragon Ball Minus, and now this.

I don't find it compelling because there is no redemption for those acts.

The movie is pretty much minus only expanded a bit. Maybe redemption wasn't the right word. I just ment that all the bad he's done, he now acknowledges it that he was bad. For his final moments he used them trying to do some good. I found that compelling.

It's like X-Men: Dark Phoenix. I get that they want to get that story right this time, but by virtue of them doing it again, I'm less interested in it. Just move on. Except in Bardock's case, they did it right the first time.

[ironfist2020]

i prefer a mixed version

bardock is still the one who resisted but without the kanessa flashbacks. that was kinda stupid.

[Bruma rabu]

There's the TV special, Dragon Ball Minus, and now this.

I think there should also be a special mention (and by "special" I mean "Ugh, really?") for Episode of Bardock that ties itself to the original Bardock Special.

I wouldn't count that as its not a iteration on Bardock's story more of just a continuation of one of them.

The movie is pretty much minus only expanded a bit. Maybe redemption wasn't the right word. I just ment that all the bad he's done, he now acknowledges it that he was bad. For his final moments he used them trying to do some good. I found that compelling.

It's like X-Men: Dark Phoenix. I get that they want to get that story right this time, but by virtue of them doing it again, I'm less interested in it. Just move on. Except in Bardock's case, they did it right the first time.

Id argue they did it better the second time