What Bardock do you prefer?

[saiyanhajime]

That is very, very true!

[Grimlock]

The source to my claim is the movie. It shows Bardock up there facing Freeza. It shows Bardock is in his line of sight when he comes out of his ship. It shows Freeza firing towards him and the planet.

It just shows Bardock trying to push back Freeza's attack with no prior confirmation that Bardock was already up there where Freeza could see him and before Freeza launches his attack. This is how it is seen in the movie.

To say that Freeza didn't see him is what there's no evidence of (and where the burden lies). But the claim continues to be made again and again.

No, it is the other way around. I can prove that Freeza saw Bardock in the TV Special, but I can't prove the same thing using the movie because the way all the scenes played out establish an impossible sight of Freeza towards Bardock. The only way to fix it would be an arrangement of scenes, an extended version to fill in the gaps. But until that happens, all we have is the movie itself and the movie clearly tells Freeza did not see Bardock.

[Goe]

Thanks a lot for your replies!

About if Freezer saw Bardock in DBSB or not, I agree with Grimlock.

I count votes by second time and I see:

New votes for old Bardock: AnimeMaakuo, Lord Beerus, kokonoe

New votes for New Bardock: there aren't votes for him yet.

Saiyanhime, you can't vote for a mix of both because there is no such character. However, if you like both Bardocks equally, you can vote "I like both Bardocks equally" and I'll count your vote.

If I made a mistake with the recount, please tell me.

[Darkseid]

I prefer the old Bardock by a mile (only talking about the first TV special, ill continue to ignore the one where he goes SSJ...) I really dont like the whole Goku got his kindness from his parents thing Toriyama introduced with Minus (never got why so many people like Gine either, yeah shes cute but she adds nothing to the story, shes barely even a character). For me Bardock will always be that ruthless, uncaring, low class sayan, that died trying to change the fate of his race and only acknowledged his son when he got the vision of him facing Freeza, the moment before his death.

[sunsetshimmer]

Old Bardock > New Bardock >>>>>>>> Episode of Bardock

I prefered Bardock as more cold hearthed saiyan who didn't care about his son at all. I also liked his crew and how they were betrayed and murdered.
I also liked how he saw fate of his race and tried to stop this even though it couldn't be stopped. New Bardock didn't even have a proof that Frieza is going to destroy planet.

Still, i prefer new Bardock over that ridiculous "Episode of Bardock" garbage

[TKA]

I used to say I enjoy the original Bardock from the special the most, but after seeing DBS: Broly, that is no longer the case. The Bardock in that film is easily the best in my eyes because everything about his story plays into the themes of the film and enhances the themes on display in the Saiyan arc. Minus, as portrayed in this new movie, is just way stronger than the original Bardock Special.

If you enjoy Bardock as a character, maybe the special is more to your taste. This Bardock, however, is more of an idea (yet there is still a lot of character there that can be expanded upon should they feel the need) since this wasn't his story.

[Marlowe89]

Buckle up and get ready for an unpopular opinion: Minus Bardock is a better character than 90's Bardock. He's a better character because he's better at being a character.

My problem with the TV special is that it lacks any semblance of individualism and narrative repercussion, so it's a pointless story, and pointless stories are inherently a waste of time. There's no reason to be invested in anything that happens to anyone. The Saiyans are accurately portrayed as ruthless marauders, but it stops there: Bardock is a thoroughly one-dimensional person, and everyone in his crew (including himself) instrinsically boils down to the same one-note personality. He gets a strength boost that puts him on par with King Vegeta, but that just means Bardock - and by extension, his son - are genetically predetermined to be the cream of the crop. He gets random gary-stuish psychic powers, but it never amounts to anything in the story and only sets him apart from his crewmates on a surface level, introduced primarily as an excuse to have him rebel against Freeza and his army. What's amusing is that you could actually alter the encounter at the start of the TV special by substituting Bardock with any other Saiyan and the same scenario would unfold. That's not actual character development, it's just contrived nonsense masquerading as character development.

There's a good bit of fanbase irony here, because pointless exposition is exactly what many people routinely accuse Minus of. A story is nothing without its driving characters, yet the Bardock special is driven almost entirely by a macguffin -- not Bardock himself. Nothing of consequence ever happens throughout its entire 40~ minute duration. It lacks the finer touches and writing style of the main series as well, no doubt thanks to Toriyama's absence, and only its final moments arguably carried any weight thanks to its supposed thematic relevance to the original series... which is also undermined because (as mentioned above) Bardock is exceptionally strong, so the story is inconsistent with its own message about Goku's supposedly non-special origins.

And here's the kicker: Minus, despite not being a fully fledged story on its own, accomplishes in just a few short pages what the TV special fails to accomplish throughout its whole runtime. Bardock is a character in this version; he catches on to Freeza's schemes because he can think critically, not because of silly power-ups and generic premonition shit, and he's not as soft as Gine but still cares about his son. His relationships with other characters are strange by Saiyan standards, but certainly more meaningful in comparison to Toei's original take. Bardock also isn't an elite warrior (nor does he ever become one), he's a genuine low-class brute. Thing is, he's also his own person. That's important because it makes his story potentially worth following.

That's enough hot takes from me for the day. At least new Bardock has a vote now.

[SaiyanGod117]

Old Bardock by a mile, Minus and it's Bardock are generic and forgettable- bland story, characters, and washed down writing.

[8000 Saiyan]

I prefer the asshole Bardock who's no different from the other Saiyans to Saiyan Jor-El.

[Bruma rabu]

I prefer the new Bardock. Grew up with old Bardock but never cared about him. I felt that his minor appearance in the new movie was so much more impactful. I actually cared that he died unlike in the original special I thought "aight that was cool" and moved on.

[DHM211]

I prefer the new Bardock. Grew up with old Bardock but never cared about him. I felt that his minor appearance in the new movie was so much more impactful. I actually cared that he died unlike in the original special I thought "aight that was cool" and moved on.

Pretty much this. Not sure why so many people like old Bardock because he was a jackass who didn't care about his kid (like every other Saiyan). At least this Bardock is unique amongst the Saiyans.

[Goe]

...he was a jackass who didn't care about his kid (like every other Saiyan). At least this Bardock is unique amongst the Saiyans.

He was ruthless and cold, and he despised him because he thought he was weak. However, he fought against Freezer for his son’s fate (he clearly said it) and his last word (before his last vision) was his name. He cared about him in some way even he wasn’t as affective as the new.

Well, I’m going to actualize votes now. Tell me if I make mistakes.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

...he was a jackass who didn't care about his kid (like every other Saiyan). At least this Bardock is unique amongst the Saiyans.

He was ruthless and cold, and he despised him because he thought he was weak. However, he fought against Freezer for his son’s fate (he clearly said it) and his last word (before his last vision) was his name. He cared about him in some way even he wasn’t as affective as the new.

Well, I’m going to actualize votes now. Tell me if I make mistakes.

There is also that weird vision he has on Planet Namek along with the now adult Kakarot/Goku, i believe that was him having a foreshadowing of who his supposedly worthless son in his own words would turn out to be in the future. I also think that part where he calls his name before Freeza shows up out of nowhere is a similar clue that he cares to some degree, even if not to the level that DB Minus portrays him to be.

[Robo4900]

Old Bardock was a more interesting character with a vastly more interesting story of his own to tell.

But, new Bardock is a pretty neat character who has a cool role to play in a really great story of its own.

So... I like both, but ultimately the old Bardock was a more interesting character in and of himself.

[Bruma rabu]

Thinking about now the new Bardock might not be so different from the old. In the movie he clearly states that saving goku is a form of redemption for him self. I don't remember the exact words but he says somewhere along the lines of that being a form kindness to contrast all bad he's done. Gine says that's it's unusual how kind and caring he's being. The thought of dying made him think about his past actions, maybe even realized how similar he and Freeza are in that aspect. The tables have turn in sense.

[saiyanhajime]

Saiyanhime, you can't vote for a mix of both because there is no such character. However, if you like both Bardocks equally, you can vote "I like both Bardocks equally" and I'll count your vote.

Sure!

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I prefer the new Bardock. Grew up with old Bardock but never cared about him. I felt that his minor appearance in the new movie was so much more impactful. I actually cared that he died unlike in the original special I thought "aight that was cool" and moved on.

Pretty much this. Not sure why so many people like old Bardock because he was a jackass who didn't care about his kid (like every other Saiyan). At least this Bardock is unique amongst the Saiyans.

Yeah old Bardock wasn't likeable and he suppsoed to be our protagonist for those 40 mins. Plus there was no point anything Bardock did in the old special the planet was gonna blow up and Goku was gonna get sent away regardless of any action Bardock was gonna take. But now him sending Goku away makes him a far more important character.

Look at the mild outrage some fans caused over his bandana, says everything about old Bardock's character that him not wearing something was such a big deal to make a fuss over for some fans.

[Son Dragon]

I perfer Bardock from Dragon Ball Super: Broly. And I have my reasons; character design, story, personality, you name it. Maybe I think he looks better without the Bandanna. However I'm sure that even Bardock must be tired with of all the time based shenanigans he's gone through. I do think it's important to honor where the character came from. But I also reconize that something about the new story seems a little better grounded which in the end also improves Goku's story as well, leaving Goku's no longer really destined to defeat well anyone besides maybe Beerus.

[Kunzait_83]

Oh yeah, that's right, we also talk about Dragon Ball in here too, huh?

I've never seen the original special, but from watching the S-Broly film I found the updated version of the character to have a bit more depth than I suspect the original had

As someone who has watched the original special probably FAR too many times, let me absolutely IMPLORE you to give it a watch at your earliest possible convenience (ONLY subbed though: the dub for the Bardock special is a war crime even by FUNi's usually abysmal standards, riddled with an absurd number of flagrant inaccuracies and outright rewrites that fundamentally alters the nature of Bardock's character and numerous important plot details).

The original Bardock special is VERY high in the running for one of the single greatest individual Dragon Ball stories ever made. Ever-ever. Yes, even when including the totality of the original manga itself. Its certainly lightyears beyond ANYTHING done so far in the revival-era, up to and especially including DB Minus. To say that Minus Bardock has "more depth" than the original is just...



Seriously though, go watch the special sometime soon whenever you get a chance (again, subbed only without a doubt in this particular case). Its beyond essential viewing for ANY Dragon Ball fan and you are seriously doing yourself a huge disservice if you just shrug it off as "eh, I'm probably not missing much". You'll also definitely have a MUCH better understanding as to why it is that so many fans were, shall we say... thoroughly underwhelmed by how Minus ultimately opted to tackle this particular character/storyline.

Its without a doubt probably THE biggest and most overwhelmingly glaring instance where Toei's creative instincts ended up FAR surpassing Toriyama's by a zillion miles.

[Bruma rabu]

Oh yeah, that's right, we also talk about Dragon Ball in here too, huh?

I've never seen the original special, but from watching the S-Broly film I found the updated version of the character to have a bit more depth than I suspect the original had

As someone who has watched the original special probably FAR too many times, let me absolutely IMPLORE you to give it a watch at your earliest possible convenience (ONLY subbed though: the dub for the Bardock special is a war crime even by FUNi's usually abysmal standards, riddled with an absurd number of flagrant inaccuracies and outright rewrites that fundamentally alters the nature of Bardock's character and numerous important plot details).

The original Bardock special is VERY high in the running for one of the single greatest individual Dragon Ball stories ever made. Ever-ever. Yes, even when including the totality of the original manga itself. Its certainly lightyears beyond ANYTHING done so far in the revival-era, up to and especially including DB Minus. To say that Minus Bardock has "more depth" than the original is just...



Seriously though, go watch the special sometime soon whenever you get a chance (again, subbed only without a doubt in this particular case). Its beyond essential viewing for ANY Dragon Ball fan and you are seriously doing yourself a huge disservice if you just shrug it off as "eh, I'm probably not missing much". You'll also definitely have a MUCH better understanding as to why it is that so many fans were, shall we say... thoroughly underwhelmed by how Minus ultimately opted to tackle this particular character/storyline.

Its without a doubt probably THE biggest and most overwhelmingly glaring instance where Toei's creative instincts ended up FAR surpassing Toriyama's by a zillion miles.

He should deffinetly watch the special but it being better than Toriyamas interpretation is pushing it. I personally don't think it's as good as the Minus/movie version.