What Bardock do you prefer?

[Doctor.]

The TV special version is miles better than Toriyama's. It accomplished making Bardock an interesting character without a) copping-out and turning him into a good person to distinguish him from the rest; and b) compromising the Saiyan and Freeza arcs' themes. The TV Special has its problems; I'm not a fan of the psychic visions and Bardock's high battle power, for example. But the 90s Bardock encapsulates everything that made 90s Dragon Ball great. And, in all fairness, Toriyama's Bardock encapsulates everything that makes modern Dragon Ball. It's just a shame that the early 90s were Dragon Ball's high point and the modern period is Dragon Ball's lowest.

Not sure why so many people like old Bardock because he was a jackass who didn't care about his kid (like every other Saiyan). At least this Bardock is unique amongst the Saiyans.

Now these are two sentences that exemplify precisely what was great about the old Bardock and what's terrible about the new one.

[SSJgogeto]

I prefer Toriyama's Bardock. I like the Special, but that Bardock is just meh for me.

[ABED]

What's wrong with his high battle power? I think it works fine. It doesn't contradict anything either plot wise or thematically.

At least this Bardock is unique amongst the Saiyans.

That spot should be reserved for Goku.

[Doctor.]

What's wrong with his high battle power? I think it works fine. It doesn't contradict anything either plot wise or thematically.

Because the special's entire point is that Bardock is a low-class soldier nobody whose fellow Saiyans mocked for his delusions, and whose name Freeza never bothered to remember in spite of his rebellion; and that feeds into the Saiyan arc's themes that Goku was born as a low-class and got so strong due to his own hard work, not due to genetics like Vegeta. Bardock rivaling king Vegeta certainly undermines all of this a tad.

[ABED]

And that battle power doesn't contradict that at all. To Freeza, he's still an ant. Christ, Vegeta was constantly mocked even though he was one of Freeza's strongest troops. Bardock was also a lower class fighter that got stronger through hard work, granted vile hard work, but still hard work. There's nothing in the special that suggested he rivaled King Vegeta.

[Tai Lung]

I’m not talking about canon or non-canon, only about our personal preferences. Do you prefer the 1990 Bardock or the DBMinus/DBSB Bardock? Why?

I prefer the old Bardock. Reasons:

DBSB has an inconsistency with the original manga. In the manga, Freezer remembers Bardock as "the saiyan who resisted until the end when I destroyed the planet Vegeta". In DBSB, Freezer does not seem to know that Bardock is trying to stop his death ball.

Besides, DBSB Bardock does not have the bandana on his forehead dyed with the blood of his fallen friends, which gave the character an epic touch and a special charisma. And they have changed him from a ruthless and cold guy to a loving father. The Bardock of 1990 was a very remarkable character for being so evil and at the same time showing affection for his comrades and having such a heroic death. He was the only character with these characteristics in the Dragon Ball universe and that made him very interesting. And the scene of his death fighting alone against Freezer’s soldiers and with his final speech in front of Feeezer, about changing the fate...was reallly epic and touching. Dulcifying his personality and reducing his death to throw rays of energy shouting "haaaaa" have greatly worsened one of the best characters and one of the most epic moments we could see in Dragon Ball.

That’s all. I hope I read your preferences

VOTES:

Old Bardock (10): Goe, dbzfan94, AnimeMaakuo, Lord Beerus, kokonoe, Darkseid, sunswtshimmer, saiyangod117, 8000saiyan, SuperSaiyaManZ94

New Bardock (6): TKA, Marlowe89, Bruma-rabu, DHM211, Son Dragon, Baggie_Saiyan

Likes both equally (2): saiyanhajime, robo4900

Total votes: 18

if it is bardock minus I would agree.

it is not an inconsitence just because of the "seems" is not a fact frieza could have realized it without ninngun problem

the original bardock was somewhat inconsistent in having appreciation for his comrades but rejected his son only for class when he was too.
but the DBSB is basically the same in essence both faced frieza even though they had no chance against demonstrating what most characterizes their bravery as a warrior adding more empathy for the saiyans taking into account that not all were evil as the case of gine.
as history in general I would prefer the new bardock is more consistent with the personality of the character and the story without adding unnecessary elements such as psychic powers and also that does not forget other characters like raditz
obviously the old one showed more battles and a little more time in his rebellion because it was "his movie" but in message and essence he represents it in the same way in its most important aspect

[SaiyanGod117]

And that battle power doesn't contradict that at all. To Freeza, he's still an ant. Christ, Vegeta was constantly mocked even though he was one of Freeza's strongest troops. Bardock was also a lower class fighter that got stronger through hard work, granted vile hard work, but still hard work. There's nothing in the special that suggested he rivaled King Vegeta.

He had a PL of around 8 to 10 thousand which is the same level King Vegeta was around, however, I see no problem with him being that strong.

[DHM211]

Not sure why so many people like old Bardock because he was a jackass who didn't care about his kid (like every other Saiyan). At least this Bardock is unique amongst the Saiyans.

Now these are two sentences that exemplify precisely what was great about the old Bardock and what's terrible about the new one.

From my perspective these are two sentences that exemplify precisely what is great about the new Bardock and what was terrible about the old one.

At least this Bardock is unique amongst the Saiyans.

That spot should be reserved for Goku.

Why?

[ABED]

And that battle power doesn't contradict that at all. To Freeza, he's still an ant. Christ, Vegeta was constantly mocked even though he was one of Freeza's strongest troops. Bardock was also a lower class fighter that got stronger through hard work, granted vile hard work, but still hard work. There's nothing in the special that suggested he rivaled King Vegeta.

He had a PL of around 8 to 10 thousand which is the same level King Vegeta was around, however, I see no problem with him being that strong.

Power level numbers are meaningless and their power levels were never stated in the special as far as I recall. Only Goku's was stated.

Why?

Because he's made less special. Goku becomes a product of lineage and a chip off the old block.

the original bardock was somewhat inconsistent in having appreciation for his comrades but rejected his son only for class when he was too.

That's not bad writing. People often are inconsistent. They hold things against people that they themselves are guilty of.

[Potara-Warrior96]

Oh yeah, that's right, we also talk about Dragon Ball in here too, huh?

I've never seen the original special, but from watching the S-Broly film I found the updated version of the character to have a bit more depth than I suspect the original had

As someone who has watched the original special probably FAR too many times, let me absolutely IMPLORE you to give it a watch at your earliest possible convenience (ONLY subbed though: the dub for the Bardock special is a war crime even by FUNi's usually abysmal standards, riddled with an absurd number of flagrant inaccuracies and outright rewrites that fundamentally alters the nature of Bardock's character and numerous important plot details).

The original Bardock special is VERY high in the running for one of the single greatest individual Dragon Ball stories ever made. Ever-ever. Yes, even when including the totality of the original manga itself. Its certainly lightyears beyond ANYTHING done so far in the revival-era, up to and especially including DB Minus. To say that Minus Bardock has "more depth" than the original is just...



Seriously though, go watch the special sometime soon whenever you get a chance (again, subbed only without a doubt in this particular case). Its beyond essential viewing for ANY Dragon Ball fan and you are seriously doing yourself a huge disservice if you just shrug it off as "eh, I'm probably not missing much". You'll also definitely have a MUCH better understanding as to why it is that so many fans were, shall we say... thoroughly underwhelmed by how Minus ultimately opted to tackle this particular character/storyline.

Its without a doubt probably THE biggest and most overwhelmingly glaring instance where Toei's creative instincts ended up FAR surpassing Toriyama's by a zillion miles.

He should deffinetly watch the special but it being better than Toriyamas interpretation is pushing it. I personally don't think it's as good as the Minus/movie version.

I heavily disagree about Minus being better than FoG. Like just cause it was made by Toriyamas doesn't automatically make it better. I know you never claimed that but the idea of Toei making a story that happens to be far better than what Toriyama has done shouldn't that far fetched either.

[KBABZ]

Oh yeah, that's right, we also talk about Dragon Ball in here too, huh?

I've never seen the original special, but from watching the S-Broly film I found the updated version of the character to have a bit more depth than I suspect the original had

As someone who has watched the original special probably FAR too many times, let me absolutely IMPLORE you to give it a watch at your earliest possible convenience (ONLY subbed though: the dub for the Bardock special is a war crime even by FUNi's usually abysmal standards, riddled with an absurd number of flagrant inaccuracies and outright rewrites that fundamentally alters the nature of Bardock's character and numerous important plot details).

Okay, I'll give it a shot! I ordered the "Bardock/Trunks" DVD (in what I call the Lore Double Feature), but that was over a year ago and the date keeps getting pushed back. I can't remember if it and the Trunks special are included with the Movie Blu-Ray set, but I'm gonna pick that up anyway an I'll watch them for sure if they are included.

And in Japanese of course; I've picked up enough from here to know that, even by my own "hey the post-Z dubs weren't that bad" stance, the dub for the Bardock special goes beyond inaccuracy and into total irrelevance.

I personally agree though that Bardock himself should be considered a low-class warrior even by Saiyan standards no matter which version of the story we're talking about. That doesn't mean he can't be creatively talented in a fight, but we know that for Saiyans that means nothing in the face of raw power.

[ABED]

He's still low class, even if he's strong. In Saiyan culture, it's a caste. Even if you grow in strength, their strength at birth is how they are judged, regardless. Bardock doesn't achieve any great feats. He barely survives his encounter with Dodoria and Freeza kills him like it was nothing. Look at Vegeta's rivalry with Goku. Even into the Buu arc it bothers him that Goku is better for many reasons, one of which is he's a low class warrior and shouldn't be stronger than an elite.

[SaiyanGod117]

[quote="ABED"]Power level numbers are meaningless and their power levels were never stated in the special as far as I recall. Only Goku's was stated.
Well at this stage in the series they're meaningful and it was stated in the special Bardock's power rivaled King Vegeta's, or he had a power level of 10,000. I forgot which one it was; nonetheless, he rivals King Vegeta.

[ABED]

They were never that meaningful given that they were used as a plot device to subvert expectations. When was it stated his power rivaled King Vegeta's? What scene specifically did they state this or his battle power? The only one I remember is . Even so, so what? It doesn't take away anything from Goku and it shows that Saiyan culture is bigoted. It didn't matter how strong he got, Bardock would always be treated as low class.

[uncutpokemon]

Just for lols, I'm voting the 3rd option. The version were Bardock is actually a brilliant scientist.

[CJStriker_CBR]

NEW Super Bardock~!

For the short time he had in the movie, I really Loved how he was committed to loving his family, to degrees even said outside of Saiyan father norms with his children. He was caring about his Wife, had a good sense of something was up with Frieza's meeting early and his plan of saving his son Kakarot was sound, Earth being a mostly low power planet, mostly peaceful and off the Frieza Forces Radar. Evening thinking his plan further, if he was wrong about Frieza's intentions, he would go to Earth to get him back.

That moment when Kakarot is being sent off was truly one of the most touching moments of the Film, adding All of this up gave good and positive depth to Super Bardock for me.

[KBABZ]

That moment when Kakarot is being sent off was truly one of the most touching moments of the Film

I choked up when watching that specific scene.

[CJStriker_CBR]

That moment when Kakarot is being sent off was truly one of the most touching moments of the Film

I choked up when watching that specific scene.

IKR, I did as well get choked up at this point and this was the Movie's heart IMO, not in the major battles, but in small, character interaction and driven scenes like these that gave such good character development and historical weight to, in this case, such an legendary Superman leaving his planet like moment!

[SaiyanGod117]

They were never that meaningful given that they were used as a plot device to subvert expectations. When was it stated his power rivaled King Vegeta's? What scene specifically did they state this or his battle power? The only one I remember is . Even so, so what? It doesn't take away anything from Goku and it shows that Saiyan culture is bigoted. It didn't matter how strong he got, Bardock would always be treated as low class.

In the special, somewhere around the beginning, he is said to have a power level close to 10,000 approaching King Vegeta's, and I don't know why are you getting so defensive. I'm just letting you know that his power level wasn't of a low-class warrior if you read my previous post you would see I agreed with you.

[ShadowBardock89]

I'm a little upset that Bardock's relationship with his comrades and his iconic look was sacrificed in DBS: Broly, though they did make cameo appearances.
I'm willing to believe Toyotaro's sketch of the crew as what happened to them off-screen.

Hopefully, there is an extended cut of Broly that reveals some rumored footage of Bardock fighting Freeza's henchmen (as some in the DB community have suggested).