What Bardock do you prefer?

[KBABZ]

There's the TV special, Dragon Ball Minus, and now this.

I think there should also be a special mention (and by "special" I mean "Ugh, really?") for Episode of Bardock that ties itself to the original Bardock Special.

I wouldn't count that as its not a iteration on Bardock's story more of just a continuation of one of them.

True, but considering how outright contested it is (like, it probably beats DB- in that department) in addition to the very different creative team behind it, I think it's worth mentioning as many folks would be quick to hold up the Bardock special but even quicker to discard the Episode of Bardock continuation.

[ABED]

There's the TV special, Dragon Ball Minus, and now this.

I think there should also be a special mention (and by "special" I mean "Ugh, really?") for Episode of Bardock that ties itself to the original Bardock Special.

I wouldn't count that as its not a iteration on Bardock's story more of just a continuation of one of them.

The movie is pretty much minus only expanded a bit. Maybe redemption wasn't the right word. I just ment that all the bad he's done, he now acknowledges it that he was bad. For his final moments he used them trying to do some good. I found that compelling.

It's like X-Men: Dark Phoenix. I get that they want to get that story right this time, but by virtue of them doing it again, I'm less interested in it. Just move on. Except in Bardock's case, they did it right the first time.

Id argue they did it better the second time

Why because they did another redemption story?

[Bruma rabu]

Why because they did another redemption story?

No, I said using the word redemption was bad word choice on my part. I already gave reasons why I prefer the New Bardock over the Old.

[ABED]

Why because they did another redemption story?

No, I said using the word redemption was bad word choice on my part. I already gave reasons why I prefer the New Bardock over the Old.

I get that, but your point comes down to him realizing he did bad and wants his final act to be a good one. Fine, though why is that better?

[Kokonoe]

What's more, the Japanese dialogue touches on Bardock being a remarkable and special warrior on at least three occasions during the special, despite his lower-class status.

I think this fairly aligns with Goku. Both are low class warriors but their mindset, their will and determination pushes them further than other low class warriors showing that there's more than a status, it's up to their mindset.

[Bruma rabu]

No, I said using the word redemption was bad word choice on my part. I already gave reasons why I prefer the New Bardock over the Old.

I get that, but your point comes down to him realizing he did bad and wants his final act to be a good one. Fine, though why is that better?

Before I answer that what does old Bardock have over the new one? Why is he better than the new one? So far I've only seen "oh well he's better cause he's an asshole and doesn't care about his kid" or "he's was more epic" people are essentially describing Vegeta.

[Marlowe89]

I think this fairly aligns with Goku. Both are low class warriors but their mindset, their will and determination pushes them further than other low class warriors showing that there's more than a status, it's up to their mindset.

My issue with that interpretation is that it somewhat goes against the doctors commenting on Bardock's "surprising" ability to recover from grave injuries more quickly according to the original Japanese version. It also makes Goku feel no less special than in Minus, since by those terms, he could still be said to inherit some distinct trait from his father (in this case, a strong will that results in them growing stronger). The fact that there's a correlation at all detracts from the uniqueness of the character, in my opinion.

[ABED]

No, I said using the word redemption was bad word choice on my part. I already gave reasons why I prefer the New Bardock over the Old.

I get that, but your point comes down to him realizing he did bad and wants his final act to be a good one. Fine, though why is that better?

Before I answer that what does old Bardock have over the new one? Why is he better than the new one? So far I've only seen "oh well he's better cause he's an asshole and doesn't care about his kid" or "he's was more epic" people are essentially describing Vegeta.

Originality for one. The end is also not a message we've seen plenty of other places. Even if we were describing Vegeta, the Bardock special came well before Vegeta's change.

[Kokonoe]

I think this fairly aligns with Goku. Both are low class warriors but their mindset, their will and determination pushes them further than other low class warriors showing that there's more than a status, it's up to their mindset.

My issue with that interpretation is that it somewhat goes against the doctors commenting on Bardock's "surprising" ability to recover from grave injuries more quickly according to the original Japanese version. It also makes Goku feel no less special than in Minus, since by those terms, he could still be said to inherit some distinct trait from his father (in this case, a strong will that results in them growing stronger). The fact that there's a correlation at all detracts from the uniqueness of the character, in my opinion.

They explain that in that scene. He's always pushing himself to the brink of death which leads to big gains via Zenkai and I'd assume at this point that if he's constantly pushing himself that hard his body adapts (like the other characters in the show do). Other Saiyans aren't pushing themselves quite like he was.

https://i.imgur.com/5BUAMsJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/57KEgmv.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oS7ii7A.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/4JglP3A.jpg

As for "will" being a inherited trait, it didn't work out for Raditz, it's merely by chance Goku has that side of him. Another comparable situation to this would be Rock Lee in Naruto. He's not gifted naturally but he puts in the work and is able to fight with Gaara, a jinchuriki who he had no business fighting without Ninjitsu.

But all this said, Bardock is unique to me because of his fighting style and using a more tactical survival approach but also being merciless, like a true warrior and not one trying to get an ego boost from combat. His goal never is his ego which makes him more human I feel.

[Bruma rabu]

Originality for one. The end is also not a message we've seen plenty of other places. Even if we were describing Vegeta, the Bardock special came well before Vegeta's change.

Vegetas story on Namek had similar beats that the Bardock special had. Both douche bags that go up against Freeza and die while seeing Goku as the one that will defeat him. Very original.

[ABED]

Originality for one. The end is also not a message we've seen plenty of other places. Even if we were describing Vegeta, the Bardock special came well before Vegeta's change.

Vegetas story on Namek had similar beats that the Bardock special had. Both douche bags that go up against Freeza and die while seeing Goku as the one that will defeat him. Very original.

Bardock came before. And at the very least, this story didn't use the same exact character to tell the same story.

[Marlowe89]

They explain that in that scene.

Not quite. If you admit that his surprising recovery rate is assumed to be a body adaptation on your part, the scene is unclear at best other than expositing the typical zenkai stuff. My impression of that dialogue exchange is that he's made out to be a cut above other lower-class warriors because of his ability to easily bounce back from injuries.

it didn't work out for Raditz

It doesn't particularly need to. Not all physiological attributes are inherited by every sibling, and my point is that - however incidental it might be - the idea of Goku having the same resilient traits as his father takes away from him standing out.

With that said, I totally understand why some people might prefer the older Bardock, even if I don't agree with them. At least neither version is as bad as Episode of Bardock's.

[JohnnyCashKami]

Honestly? Modern Bardock's story is a lot nicer, emotional and profound. The Classic Bardock story was pretty straightforward and the most memorable thing about it was Bardock's Battle State Scouter theme song while the rest just kind of happened.

This time around Bardock was given time to show him, his wife and his kid, Kakarot. We got to see how much of a great father he could have been and how much he cared about his son, even knowing that his leader was potentially going to murder all Saiyans.

[ABED]

What is profound about it?

[Hulk10]

I prefer the newer one.

[Goe]

Ironfirst2020, you can't vote you prefer a mixed version since a mixed version doesn't exist. However, you can vote you like both Bardocks equally

I have actualised with JohnnyCashKami and Hulk10 votes.

Thanks for voting.

[Rubens]

I've put some thought in it and while I admittedly liked the Bardock in the new movie, ultimately I prefer the older version Bardock.

When I first watched the special, I already expected Bardock to be particularly strong and to stand out among the low class saiyans - that assumption was not because I knew about the story, it was because he is Goku's father. What I liked about the special was the fact that what I was watching someone like Goku, but not quite, fighting and being good at it; and that strength and determination came from Goku's saiyan inheritance, precisely represented by Bardock. He, in my mind, personifies the typical savage and fierce saiyan that was described in the story, combined with the traits Goku would inherite: that of being determined, hardworking and brave. Yes he is an asshole and yes his battle power was exaggerated, but those aren't the reasons why I like him.

The new Bardock still appears to possess this traits, but now he is given more: a sense of caring for his family (apparently newly gained, specifically towards his infant son, Goku), a need to seek for redemption and a soft spot, seemingly transmitted by Goku's mother, Gine. What I don't like about this is that Bardock and Gine are turned into more than just Goku's parents, they became the reason why Goku is special - which for me makes him less special.

These are my thoughts and why I'm siding with old Bardock.

[uncutpokemon]

Thanks for your replies. I'm gonna count this new votes now:

Old Bardock: Kunzait_83, doctor, Potara-Warrior96, ShadowBardock89

New Bardock: SSJGogeto, CJStricker_CBR

Both: Uncutpokemon

Again, if I has some mistake, please tell me.

Tai Lung, about if is a inconsistence or not, I think Grimlock explained this very well in this same thread.

ABED, you have argued here about old Bardock's power level, but you haven't said wich Bardock do you prefer? Could you say it, pleasd? Thanks

Actually I said neither. Me saying that I liked him best as a brilliant scientist is more a vote for the mistranslated ocean dub than anything else. Don't take it too seriously though.

[KBABZ]

Here's a question: as someone who wasn't familiar with Bardock until a few years ago, why do fans of the old version feel it's so important for Goku to be special (personality-wise) from the rest of the Saiyans?

[ABED]

Here's a question: as someone who wasn't familiar with Bardock until a few years ago, why do fans of the old version feel it's so important for Goku to be special (personality-wise) from the rest of the Saiyans?

If he's a chip off the old block, it feels less like choice/free will and more something he was destined for.