Saiyan Tails

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Badmanvegeta1991
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Saiyan Tails

Post by Badmanvegeta1991 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:13 am

Anyone else wish they would somehow bring back the saiyan tail? I really liked it because it was unique and aesthetically pleasing. Also incorporating oozaru back into the story would be awesome.

My apologies if this topic has already been discussed.

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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by ulisa » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:19 am

I always preferred the Saiyans with the tails. Not sure why, I just like it better. One of my favorite images is the very end of GT's final ending with a grown Goku with his tail and the power pole. I guess it would get annoying to keep drawing the tails but I think it's a shame they dropped them
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Badmanvegeta1991
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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by Badmanvegeta1991 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:30 am

ulisa wrote:I always preferred the Saiyans with the tails. Not sure why, I just like it better. One of my favorite images is the very end of GT's final ending with a grown Goku with his tail and the power pole. I guess it would get annoying to keep drawing the tails but I think it's a shame they dropped them
Ugh like drawing a tail is such a choir... they draws one for Frieza why not the poster boys. I heard many of times them being lazy and cutting things out because of that. Pun intended lol

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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by emperior » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:30 am

I don’t think it would look very good on Goku right now.
Maybe on Vegeta it would fit better, but Broly has shown just how much of a useless appendage it is by being able to use the Oozaru’s power without transforming in the slower moving Great Ape.
It’s quite sad because I always liked the tail but I understand why they decided to get rid of it.
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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by Hulk10 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:39 pm

I disagree with the idea that the Saiyan's tail is useless. I rather like the idea of Saiyans with tails too.
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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by uncutpokemon » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:32 am

I've always wondered this, if a saiyan with a tail goes super saiyan and then sees a full moon, do they still turn into a great ape, or something else? For the record, I'm not counting GT as a canon answer.

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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by ZodaEX » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:12 pm

uncutpokemon wrote:I've always wondered this, if a saiyan with a tail goes super saiyan and then sees a full moon, do they still turn into a great ape, or something else? For the record, I'm not counting GT as a canon answer.
What type of answer would you take as canon?

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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by uncutpokemon » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:00 pm

ZodaEX wrote:
uncutpokemon wrote:I've always wondered this, if a saiyan with a tail goes super saiyan and then sees a full moon, do they still turn into a great ape, or something else? For the record, I'm not counting GT as a canon answer.
What type of answer would you take as canon?
Maybe if it got addressed in super, or if Toriyama answers it in an interview?

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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by Hulk10 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:36 pm

uncutpokemon wrote:I've always wondered this, if a saiyan with a tail goes super saiyan and then sees a full moon, do they still turn into a great ape, or something else? For the record, I'm not counting GT as a canon answer.
I suspect they might.
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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:10 pm

I think it would have been cool if they brought them back somehow so that way we could have Goku control his Oozaru form, and then have Goku and Vegeta mix the Oozaru form with Super Saiyan Blue, resulting in Oozaru Blue. Now wouldn't that be cool?
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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by uncutpokemon » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:30 pm

Hulk10 wrote:
uncutpokemon wrote:I've always wondered this, if a saiyan with a tail goes super saiyan and then sees a full moon, do they still turn into a great ape, or something else? For the record, I'm not counting GT as a canon answer.
I suspect they might.
Honestly I was kinda hoping Broly would have kept his tail in the movie. Not sure how any other saiyans can still have one at this point.

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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:56 pm

although the real reason is that the author does not like to draw them.
but how they have addressed the situation with
- super saiyans > Ozaru
- Tails are a weak point of the saiyans
- evolved saiyans lost their tail a long time ago U6

Everything seems to indicate that everything related to it seems to be obsolete enough and a change at this point would be very contradictory with everything worked from before until now.

Maybe I can admit that in some cases would look good but it would not be enough to bring them back without a purpose.

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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by Hulk10 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:28 pm

For me its not a question of looking good. Its a fundamental part of the Saiyans. It might be a weak point, but a Saiyan can train his or her tail to make it not a weak point. And in all honesty its good to have a back up transformation you can rely on in a pinch, even if it can't be accessed at will. Plus it makes a Saiyan stronger and every little bit of power counts.

And since it is a fundamental part of the Saiyans, especially those of U7 it is far from obsolete. There just hasn't been an in story reason to bring them back yet.
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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:39 pm

Tai Lung wrote:although the real reason is that the author does not like to draw them.
but how they have addressed the situation with
- super saiyans > Ozaru
- Tails are a weak point of the saiyans
- evolved saiyans lost their tail a long time ago U6

Everything seems to indicate that everything related to it seems to be obsolete enough and a change at this point would be very contradictory with everything worked from before until now.

Maybe I can admit that in some cases would look good but it would not be enough to bring them back without a purpose.
that nappa demonstrated can be bipassed and it has been said the weakness can be trained out of you.

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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by Hulk10 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:44 pm

mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:although the real reason is that the author does not like to draw them.
but how they have addressed the situation with
- super saiyans > Ozaru
- Tails are a weak point of the saiyans
- evolved saiyans lost their tail a long time ago U6

Everything seems to indicate that everything related to it seems to be obsolete enough and a change at this point would be very contradictory with everything worked from before until now.

Maybe I can admit that in some cases would look good but it would not be enough to bring them back without a purpose.
that nappa demonstrated can be bipassed and it has been said the weakness can be trained out of you.
Yeah I said that in an earlier post. Another advantage is that a tail is another limb you can use in a fight.
"We became like friends, we became like good friends." Broly to Cheelai and Lemo about his fur pelt.

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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:53 pm

mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:although the real reason is that the author does not like to draw them.
but how they have addressed the situation with
- super saiyans > Ozaru
- Tails are a weak point of the saiyans
- evolved saiyans lost their tail a long time ago U6

Everything seems to indicate that everything related to it seems to be obsolete enough and a change at this point would be very contradictory with everything worked from before until now.

Maybe I can admit that in some cases would look good but it would not be enough to bring them back without a purpose.
that nappa demonstrated can be bipassed and it has been said the weakness can be trained out of you.
but if they lose the tail they lose the transformation or if they destroy the moon they also lose it but there are also other defects
- in general the ozarus lose control of their actions
- The ozarus to be so large in size are easier targets against smaller opponents

I would say that the super saiyan is more emblematic than the ozaru if talking about fundamental part for saiyans.

In any case I would say that the bad thing about queues and ozaru is that they have more "cons" than "pros" and if they ever want back them. needs change this.

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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by Hulk10 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:09 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:although the real reason is that the author does not like to draw them.
but how they have addressed the situation with
- super saiyans > Ozaru
- Tails are a weak point of the saiyans
- evolved saiyans lost their tail a long time ago U6

Everything seems to indicate that everything related to it seems to be obsolete enough and a change at this point would be very contradictory with everything worked from before until now.

Maybe I can admit that in some cases would look good but it would not be enough to bring them back without a purpose.
that nappa demonstrated can be bipassed and it has been said the weakness can be trained out of you.
but if they lose the tail they lose the transformation or if they destroy the moon they also lose it but there are also other defects
- in general the ozarus lose control of their actions
- The ozarus to be so large in size are easier targets against smaller opponents

I would say that the super saiyan is more emblematic than the ozaru if talking about fundamental part for saiyans.

In any case I would say that the bad thing about queues and ozaru is that they have more "cons" than "pros" and if they ever want back them. needs change this.
They might be easier targets to hit but I have yet to see a small opponent do really well against a giant Oozaru form in the tv series and manga. Also small opponents NEVER do well against opponents several thousand times bigger than they are. At least alone anyway you'd need a lot of back up. But then numbers don't do you much good if your attacks can't hurt the giant you are fighting. Most beings don't know the secret behind the Saiyan's powers and so wouldn't think to go for the tail. That and the uncontrollable issue can be overcome with training as Vegeta has shown. Also the Ikari form is basically the Oozaru power in normal form so the loss of the tail isn't a problem if you want to access that form's power. Also lets not forget the Power Ball technique that allows a Saiyan to transform into an Oozaru.

The problem with the cons is that many of them aren't much of a problem. I can understand your thinking Tai Lung. I just don't entirely agree with your points.

I can see other benefits the tail provides aside from the onces mentioned in the show and manga. Here is a list of pros and cons.

Pros: 1. Extra Strength, 2. Extra Limb, 3. Access to Oozaru form, 4. Access to SSJ4 form, 5. Help with balance.

Cons: 1. Clothes don't fit unless altered, 2. Tail sensitive to being grabbed, 3. Loses Oozaru form if cut off.
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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:30 am

Tai Lung wrote:
mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:although the real reason is that the author does not like to draw them.
but how they have addressed the situation with
- super saiyans > Ozaru
- Tails are a weak point of the saiyans
- evolved saiyans lost their tail a long time ago U6

Everything seems to indicate that everything related to it seems to be obsolete enough and a change at this point would be very contradictory with everything worked from before until now.

Maybe I can admit that in some cases would look good but it would not be enough to bring them back without a purpose.
that nappa demonstrated can be bipassed and it has been said the weakness can be trained out of you.
but if they lose the tail they lose the transformation or if they destroy the moon they also lose it but there are also other defects
- in general the ozarus lose control of their actions
- The ozarus to be so large in size are easier targets against smaller opponents

I would say that the super saiyan is more emblematic than the ozaru if talking about fundamental part for saiyans.

In any case I would say that the bad thing about queues and ozaru is that they have more "cons" than "pros" and if they ever want back them. needs change this.
1. No, they do not lost their tails if the moon is destroyed, and power ball creation is simple
2. Yes, but as Vegeta stated and demonstrated you can control it, this isnt new to the medium
3. and a 10x multipler on any of the characters more than makes up for the size.

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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:14 pm

Hulk10 wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:
mahakaishin1991 wrote:
that nappa demonstrated can be bipassed and it has been said the weakness can be trained out of you.
but if they lose the tail they lose the transformation or if they destroy the moon they also lose it but there are also other defects
- in general the ozarus lose control of their actions
- The ozarus to be so large in size are easier targets against smaller opponents

I would say that the super saiyan is more emblematic than the ozaru if talking about fundamental part for saiyans.

In any case I would say that the bad thing about queues and ozaru is that they have more "cons" than "pros" and if they ever want back them. needs change this.
They might be easier targets to hit but I have yet to see a small opponent do really well against a giant Oozaru form in the tv series and manga. Also small opponents NEVER do well against opponents several thousand times bigger than they are. At least alone anyway you'd need a lot of back up. But then numbers don't do you much good if your attacks can't hurt the giant you are fighting. Most beings don't know the secret behind the Saiyan's powers and so wouldn't think to go for the tail. That and the uncontrollable issue can be overcome with training as Vegeta has shown. Also the Ikari form is basically the Oozaru power in normal form so the loss of the tail isn't a problem if you want to access that form's power. Also lets not forget the Power Ball technique that allows a Saiyan to transform into an Oozaru.

The problem with the cons is that many of them aren't much of a problem. I can understand your thinking Tai Lung. I just don't entirely agree with your points.

I can see other benefits the tail provides aside from the onces mentioned in the show and manga. Here is a list of pros and cons.

Pros: 1. Extra Strength, 2. Extra Limb, 3. Access to Oozaru form, 4. Access to SSJ4 form, 5. Help with balance.

Cons: 1. Clothes don't fit unless altered, 2. Tail sensitive to being grabbed, 3. Loses Oozaru form if cut off.

the ikari form although it seems a good concept is still a transformation that has no tail or a very direct connection with the oozaru more than a few mentions
which causes it to lose much of the objective

mahakaishin1991 wrote:
Tai Lung wrote:
mahakaishin1991 wrote:
that nappa demonstrated can be bipassed and it has been said the weakness can be trained out of you.
but if they lose the tail they lose the transformation or if they destroy the moon they also lose it but there are also other defects
- in general the ozarus lose control of their actions
- The ozarus to be so large in size are easier targets against smaller opponents

I would say that the super saiyan is more emblematic than the ozaru if talking about fundamental part for saiyans.

In any case I would say that the bad thing about queues and ozaru is that they have more "cons" than "pros" and if they ever want back them. needs change this.
1. No, they do not lost their tails if the moon is destroyed, and power ball creation is simple
2. Yes, but as Vegeta stated and demonstrated you can control it, this isnt new to the medium
3. and a 10x multipler on any of the characters more than makes up for the size.
-I was referring to losing the transformation when destroying the moon.
-but without mentioning vegeta has never been seen another that conserve consciousness and gohan could only recognize vegeta because gohan is a hybrid but still out of control.
-that's only if the difference against the opponent is not so great which is unlikely with increasingly stronger opponents but as I said
SSJ = X50 >>> Ozaru = X10
and if it is not the case you would have something like goku vs giant piccolo in 23 tenkaichi

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Re: Saiyan Tails

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:19 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:I think it would have been cool if they brought them back somehow so that way we could have Goku control his Oozaru form, and then have Goku and Vegeta mix the Oozaru form with Super Saiyan Blue, resulting in Oozaru Blue. Now wouldn't that be cool?
One thing I wanted was for the U6 saiyans to NOT have SS forms or go down the god path and instead have it as a legend (later making it unique to Kale to explain why she is different) and that when Cabba shows up, he can turn his arms in the fight with Vegeta into GIANT ape forms to smack him around. So that instead of tails, they can selectively transform without losing control.

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