Funimation's 30th anniversary collectible home video release

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Forte224
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:51 am

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:41 am
Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:12 am
I did a CRTV comparison with my American Dragon Box, and the scene where Raditz is flying has a near identical framing as the 30th anniversary trailer.

As you said, I'm NOT defending it, I'm just saying that it is nowhere near as bad as that 16:9 garbage FUNimation has been forcing people to put up with.
While the CRT TV cropping is an interesting argument to make, I don't feel it's 100% valid as the shots were still drawn and animated in the hopes that the viewer would be able to see ALL of the frame. The composition was to make it compatible, not "this is the intended experience", kinda like how the movies were formatted to both widescreen and 4:3. You could further argue that if you put these Blu-Rays into a PS3 that was then output to a CRT TV, you'd effectively get a (wait for it) double-crop that of course wasn't intended.
Incorrect. They were most certainly animated with overscan in mind back then. They had an idea of what would be seen on a CRTV by the masses and prepared accordingly. I guarantee you that no one who EVER watched their Dragon Box DVDs on a CRTV thought to themselves "Huh, this framing seems off".

And, yes, but no one is actually going to play these Blu-rays on a CRTV so it's simply arguing semantics at that point. Once again, I'm not defending it, just saying that this energy is better spent somewhere else.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:52 am

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:47 am
Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:42 am
There it is! I knew I put that image in this thread somewhere. Anyway, yeah that's my point. These deserve hate, but the 4:3 is genuine and a similar amount of footage (on an HDTV) that would've been seen back in the day (on a CRTV). So instead of making up hate that makes us look ignorant (need I remind everyone of the embarrassing "double-crop" accusations going around from 2 days ago?), let's point our hate towards the things that are really really big problems that actually exist, like the DNR you mentioned.
Again I feel that the animation layouts debunk your argument.
Then never watch your Dragon Box DVDs on a CRTV ever. Which is where they look the best by the way. Oh and don't watch the Blue Bricks either.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by eledoremassis02 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:57 am

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:41 am

As I mentioned I disagree because for me the overscan-compatible shot composition was just that: a compatibility thing to make it work on as many sets as possible. If they didn't want us to see past that overscan, the drawings would have finished just past those crop lines... but they don't. Check out this drawing of Yamcha for example:
Image
That's fine and I agree that more picture would be better. But before this, the argument against 16x9 was scene composition and the fact that it neglected the Overscan compatibility and the overall formatting of each shot (i.e the Safe area). And while people have a mixed bag about the blue bricks and it's zooming it, it never got the flat out hate this sets getting (this is not aimed at you but just a general consensus) and hence why I don't find it to be as big of a deal as the DNR and (to a lesser extent) the saturation is.
Dragon Box Red:Singles Yellow:Blue brick
Funny enough the zoom in on the singles seem to be around par to that of the new set (granted I admit this is most likly because FUNi has zoomed in masers where Z does not.

So I want to establish that I agree is lazy of FUNi to do it for this particular set to cut costs (tho as someone stated a level set quality relaase would be a lot more money) but the set has more jarring issues than zooming and are really just the blue bricks for Z

but at the end of the day, if I had to keep one thing from this set itd be the zooming as Id rather have this
Image
Instead of
Image
Last edited by eledoremassis02 on Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Forte224
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:12 am

On a slightly related note, shouldn't we be saying "Black Brick", not "Black Bricks"? It's just one big black box. The other 2 black squares shown on the site are the figure box and the art book.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by rs_chaosmaster » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:38 am

Wow i just went and browsed through my level sets this was a spectacular release even with the crushed blacks. There is literally no reason why they couldn't afford to finish this and make this the footage for the 30th anniversary set. This was 7 years ago to do the same thing with todays technology would be way cheaper. It seems like they at least got to the Trunks Arc with the master I honestly think they could afford to finish this project and still make a profit with the 1.05 million they will get from this project. Now more than ever i hope we get some new information soon!!!

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:39 am

Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:51 am
Incorrect. They were most certainly animated with overscan in mind back then. They had an idea of what would be seen on a CRTV by the masses and prepared accordingly. I guarantee you that no one who EVER watched their Dragon Box DVDs on a CRTV thought to themselves "Huh, this framing seems off".
Yes I know that, but if overscan was the intended way to view the show, why even draw past that point in the first place?
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:57 am
But before this, the argument against 16x9 was scene composition and the fact that it neglected the Overscan compatibility and the overall formatting of each shot.
For me it wasn't about the overscan, it was that the show wasn't composed for a wider, shorter frame. There's a very big difference between these two takes on the same shot (one from the show, the other from Kai in 16:9). Look at how Vegeta is positioned relative to Goku's head, and how big Goku is in the frame.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:44 am

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:39 am
Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:51 am
Incorrect. They were most certainly animated with overscan in mind back then. They had an idea of what would be seen on a CRTV by the masses and prepared accordingly. I guarantee you that no one who EVER watched their Dragon Box DVDs on a CRTV thought to themselves "Huh, this framing seems off".
Yes I know that, but if overscan was the intended way to view the show, why even draw past that point in the first place?
You know the Dragon Boxes and even the Level Sets have part of the picture chopped off correct? With your logic the 16:9 Blu-rays are a good alternative release because why would they even draw those images that are cut off on the left and right (when viewed in 4:3) if they weren't intended to be seen? Why draw past that point?

The point is framing. Is the framing ruined? So far, no. Is the framing exactly what we want and what should probably most definitely be in a 30th anniversary release? Also so far, no. But we:

1. Have WAY worse issues with this set than that, and
2. Have people in this thread that have claimed and are still implying that the 16:9 Blu-rays are actually BETTER than what we've seen so far in this trailer. Which is absolute hogwash that detracts from the reliability and common sense this site is supposed to be known for.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:56 am

Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:44 am
The point is framing.
I JUST argued for this point in my last post with those two pictures! The thing people are upset about here is that the Black Brick(s) are thus far the most amount of footage a 4:3 release of Z has ever cropped out, and there's no need for it.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:00 am

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:56 am
Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:44 am
The point is framing.
I JUST argued for this point in my last post with those two pictures! The thing people are upset about here is that the Black Brick(s) are thus far the most amount of footage a 4:3 release of Z has ever cropped out, and there's no need for it.
Those pictures have nothing to do with my point whatsoever. You're not explaining how the assumed zoom with the Black Brick will ruin (keyword: RUIN) the framing of that Goku and Vegeta scene like a 16:9 crop would.

Your Kai image is irrelevant as that is a completely redrawn scene. And not redrawn in the typical Kai sense where it's drawn over the existing frame. It's a brand new image.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by clutchins » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:15 am

Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:00 am
Those pictures have nothing to do with my point whatsoever. You're not explaining how the assumed zoom with the Black Brick will ruin (keyword: RUIN) the framing of that Goku and Vegeta scene like a 16:9 crop would.
The fact that the zoom on this release is so severe that the math actually shows that a previously cropped 16:9 shows more picture percentage than this release is totally unacceptable. The zoomed in footage was never problematic to show in a previous release, warts and all. The whole reason the zoom exists in the first place is because the video team went the cheap route when having to remove the tape and glue frames. No surprise here - everything else about this set is cheap.
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No, why would it? It's fiction. The strength of the characters is not possible to reach in reality.
I mean, you're pretty open about looking at cartoon porn. Why would you do that? It's fiction. The proportions of these women are not possible to reach in reality.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:19 am

clutchins wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:15 am
Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:00 am
Those pictures have nothing to do with my point whatsoever. You're not explaining how the assumed zoom with the Black Brick will ruin (keyword: RUIN) the framing of that Goku and Vegeta scene like a 16:9 crop would.
The fact that the zoom on this release is so severe that the math actually shows that a previously cropped 16:9 shows more picture percentage than this release is totally unacceptable. The zoomed in footage was never problematic to show in a previous release, warts and all. The whole reason the zoom exists in the first place is because the video team went the cheap route when having to remove the tape and glue frames. No surprise here - everything else about this set is cheap.
You are ignoring the main point. The 16:9 DOES have more image but that in no way makes it BETTER due to framing. Yes, everything about this set is cheap. Yes it's crap. Yes it shouldn't be purchased. But it also shouldn't be said that the 16:9 version is better just because it technically has more footage, because in actuality the framing is far worse off in the 16:9 version.

Read entire responses and think about them carefully and what the meaning is behind them before responding, as we're better than this. Thank you.

I'm done with this thread for a while. It's just spinning in circles and I'm sick of typing the same response over and over and having the point be missed.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by clutchins » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:32 am

Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:19 am
clutchins wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:15 am
Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:00 am
Those pictures have nothing to do with my point whatsoever. You're not explaining how the assumed zoom with the Black Brick will ruin (keyword: RUIN) the framing of that Goku and Vegeta scene like a 16:9 crop would.
The fact that the zoom on this release is so severe that the math actually shows that a previously cropped 16:9 shows more picture percentage than this release is totally unacceptable. The zoomed in footage was never problematic to show in a previous release, warts and all. The whole reason the zoom exists in the first place is because the video team went the cheap route when having to remove the tape and glue frames. No surprise here - everything else about this set is cheap.
You are ignoring the main point. The 16:9 DOES have more image but that in no way makes it BETTER due to framing. Yes, everything about this set is cheap. Yes it's crap. Yes it shouldn't be purchased. But it also shouldn't be said that the 16:9 version is better just because it technically has more footage, because in actuality the framing is far worse off in the 16:9 version.

Read entire responses and think about them carefully and what the meaning is behind them before responding, as we're better than this. Thank you.

I'm done with this thread for a while. It's just spinning in circles and I'm sick of typing the same response over and over and having the point be missed.
I never said the 16:9 cropping made the picture better. I thought that was a moot point but I guess I have to make that clear. All I was saying is that this set which supposedly has the "full frame" since it's 4:3 actually doesn't have as much picture information as a cropped 16:9 set. It's backwards is all.
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Kamiccolo9 wrote:
JacobYBM wrote:
Original Thread Topic wrote:Did Dragon Ball ever motivate you to exercise?
No, why would it? It's fiction. The strength of the characters is not possible to reach in reality.
I mean, you're pretty open about looking at cartoon porn. Why would you do that? It's fiction. The proportions of these women are not possible to reach in reality.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:38 am

clutchins wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:32 am
Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:19 am
clutchins wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:15 am

The fact that the zoom on this release is so severe that the math actually shows that a previously cropped 16:9 shows more picture percentage than this release is totally unacceptable. The zoomed in footage was never problematic to show in a previous release, warts and all. The whole reason the zoom exists in the first place is because the video team went the cheap route when having to remove the tape and glue frames. No surprise here - everything else about this set is cheap.
You are ignoring the main point. The 16:9 DOES have more image but that in no way makes it BETTER due to framing. Yes, everything about this set is cheap. Yes it's crap. Yes it shouldn't be purchased. But it also shouldn't be said that the 16:9 version is better just because it technically has more footage, because in actuality the framing is far worse off in the 16:9 version.

Read entire responses and think about them carefully and what the meaning is behind them before responding, as we're better than this. Thank you.

I'm done with this thread for a while. It's just spinning in circles and I'm sick of typing the same response over and over and having the point be missed.
I never said the 16:9 cropping made the picture better. I thought that was a moot point but I guess I have to make that clear. All I was saying is that this set which supposedly has the "full frame" since it's 4:3 actually doesn't have as much picture information as a cropped 16:9 set. It's backwards is all.
4:3 and full frame are 2 different things. Even the Level sets aren't the technical full frame. Either way, the zooming in this set is highly unfortunate as we know they didn't take the time to just remove the tape marks and damage. There have been others claiming the 16:9 version is better, and continuing to claim a "double-crop" (the double-crop thing not on this site anymore thankfully [though it did start here :x]), so I suppose I just grouped you in with those people. Sorry.

Ok, I'm actually done now.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Scsigs » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:25 am

rs_chaosmaster wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:38 am
Wow i just went and browsed through my level sets this was a spectacular release even with the crushed blacks. There is literally no reason why they couldn't afford to finish this and make this the footage for the 30th anniversary set. This was 7 years ago to do the same thing with todays technology would be way cheaper. It seems like they at least got to the Trunks Arc with the master I honestly think they could afford to finish this project and still make a profit with the 1.05 million they will get from this project. Now more than ever i hope we get some new information soon!!!
That's exactly like I said many pages back. The episode where Trunks debuts is 119. Unless they had the restoration team do certain shots from episodes just for sneak peeks, We know they got to at least 67, due to the next 2 sets they released box arts for having up till them, & were most likely well ahead of the release schedule before the project was shelved. With today's technology, they wouldn't even NEED to spend a million dollars' worth of money to do it. Hell, it would be a fraction of the cost that Star Trek: TNG cost to remaster, which was around 2 million dollars to do & they were completely doing that shit from scratch & it included doing new shots made with CGI due to some bits of the footage being lost. 2-3 different teams overseen by a small group from FUNi who understand this shit could absolutely do the rest of the series in less than 6 months. I mean, Geekdom got wind of this shit back in September, so if they started earlier, that's an even better chance they'd get it done. Feels absolutely stupid that they didn't even bother using the Level footage for the trailer to show they were serious about this being completely remastered from the ground up, but no one's ever said the folks at FUNi were smart when it comes to their marketing.
Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:44 am
You know the Dragon Boxes and even the Level Sets have part of the picture chopped off correct? With your logic the 16:9 Blu-rays are a good alternative release because why would they even draw those images that are cut off on the left and right (when viewed in 4:3) if they weren't intended to be seen? Why draw past that point?

The point is framing. Is the framing ruined? So far, no. Is the framing exactly what we want and what should probably most definitely be in a 30th anniversary release? Also so far, no. But we:

1. Have WAY worse issues with this set than that, and
2. Have people in this thread that have claimed and are still implying that the 16:9 Blu-rays are actually BETTER than what we've seen so far in this trailer. Which is absolute hogwash that detracts from the reliability and common sense this site is supposed to be known for.
As AnimeAjay brought up in his video on this release, the animation cels were bigger than the framing would allow for TVs back then &, thus, the picture on the film is slightly longer than the 4:3 frame would've been in any situation. This reminds me of The Beatles' film, Help!, where the framing of the movie on home media is awful when viewed on a widescreen TV, where it's not 4:3, yet it's not 16:9. It's this weird in-between framing due to, I'm assuming, the film source they remastered the movie from. This is certainly weird because their earlier film, A Hard Day's Night, was in the full widescreen frame & I'm not gonna assume that was because Help was in color & A Hard Day's Night was in black & white.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:45 am

Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:00 am
Those pictures have nothing to do with my point whatsoever. You're not explaining how the assumed zoom with the Black Brick will ruin (keyword: RUIN) the framing of that Goku and Vegeta scene like a 16:9 crop would.

Your Kai image is irrelevant as that is a completely redrawn scene. And not redrawn in the typical Kai sense where it's drawn over the existing frame. It's a brand new image.
Again I was using them as an example of the differences between a shot framed for 16:9 but also works for 4:3 (like the movies), and one framed for 4:3 only.

Let's go back to your overscan example, though. In my Yamcha image earlier, he has the halo on him as he's training at King Kai's. If the shot were for the overscanned version alone, why even draw the halo in there at all?

Another example. Below in the spoiler tags is an animation cel from the Blue Rope episode. On it I've drawn in a box representing the full frame which we see in the Dragon Box. Inside is a red box representing the overscan, which has been traced straight over one from the animation layout page scans.

If what we're SUPPOSED to see is only inside the red box, WHY did they draw so far out from that?? You trying to tell me we're all supposed to be watching Dragon Ball on one of these??

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Son Edo » Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:07 am

I just saw AnimeAjay's video on youtube. Sounds like the orange bricks all over again. That's a real shame, guys.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by DBZ_Lee » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:28 am

When this set is produced, I can see a lot of them going on ebay, being sold at quantities of 5 by sellers looking to make a profit by charging silly money.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Gokitalo » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:08 am

Well, since FUNimation has reached out to Kanzenshuu in the past, I am hoping the post Mike made about the release (combined with various other reactions from notable Dragon Ball fan personalities online) gets the company's attention so it can at least clarify all of the details behind this particular remaster. I'm assuming FUNi hasn't really started working on it in earnest if it's waiting on signatures, so perhaps the fan backlash might actually make a positive difference in the remastering process this time. Call me optimistic...!

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:28 am

Gokitalo wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:08 am
Well, since FUNimation has reached out to Kanzenshuu in the past, I am hoping the post Mike made about the release (combined with various other reactions from notable Dragon Ball fan personalities online) gets the company's attention so it can at least clarify all of the details behind this particular remaster. I'm assuming FUNi hasn't really started working on it in earnest if it's waiting on signatures, so perhaps the fan backlash might actually make a positive difference in the remastering process this time. Call me optimistic...!
You bring a fairly good point and I admire your optimism there. I doubt it'll happen, but it'll be interesting if it does!

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Mr.Poot » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:47 am

I'm surprised some Anime news site hasn't gotten wind of this and started making click bait articles like "Funimation hates its fans?!".

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