Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

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Forte224
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:10 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:04 am
I dunno guys a shitty remaster for a shitty series, seems to go hand in hand am I right? :P
How come you're always so desperate to let people know you hate Z? Do you get a lack of attention or something? If you don't care about Z then don't fill the thread with pointless posts that add literally nothing.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:11 am

Forte224 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:10 am
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:04 am
I dunno guys a shitty remaster for a shitty series, seems to go hand in hand am I right? :P
How come you're always so desperate to let people know you hate Z? Do you get a lack of attention or something? If you don't care about Z then don't fill the thread with pointless posts that add literally nothing.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:13 am

KBABZ wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:11 am
Forte224 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:10 am
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:04 am
I dunno guys a shitty remaster for a shitty series, seems to go hand in hand am I right? :P
How come you're always so desperate to let people know you hate Z? Do you get a lack of attention or something? If you don't care about Z then don't fill the thread with pointless posts that add literally nothing.
Image
No, he legitimately hates it and seems to really really enjoy telling everyone.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by superfan2024 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:28 am

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:56 pm
superfan2024 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:39 pm
If that actually was the case, couldn't they have asked Toei to send them remastered footage? The same way they remastered the Bardock special a few months ago?
Maybe. Maybe Toei wouldn't let them, or it was cheaper for Funi to use their own internal master of the show than to additionally pay Toei to rescan such a gargantuan piece of work. And asking Toei means you're asking someone else to do it, and take it from me, you get a lot more confidence that you can do things to your standards if you aren't entrusting anyone else to the work (in other words, Funimation won't have any control over if Toei will rescan it in a way they find satisfactory).

It's also entirely possible that Funi aren't even ALLOWED by Toei to remaster anything except the third-generation master they have, outside of direct localizations like with Dragon Box Z and Kai where Toei have already done all the work (which, if true, suggests Toei isn't going to do their own remaster of Z, which is depressing...).
winnersproof wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:54 pm
I did my part and respectfully messaged them on Facebook and Twitter about my problems with this release. It's really hard not to be frustrated at this release though, especially with them showing everyone their film scans!
I really appreciate you using a respectful tone there. We're not going to change anybody's mind by going all Dr. Disrespect on them.
I've never been fully informed about these "third-generation masters" that I always here Funimation having. So the source for their releases for DBZ (Pioneer, singles, Orange Bricks, and 2014 Blu-Rays) are not remastered versions of the original 16mm prints and tapes? I know for sure that the DBoxes and Kai used the 16mm prints from scratch.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by eledoremassis02 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:35 am

superfan2024 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:28 am
KBABZ wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:56 pm
superfan2024 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:39 pm
If that actually was the case, couldn't they have asked Toei to send them remastered footage? The same way they remastered the Bardock special a few months ago?
Maybe. Maybe Toei wouldn't let them, or it was cheaper for Funi to use their own internal master of the show than to additionally pay Toei to rescan such a gargantuan piece of work. And asking Toei means you're asking someone else to do it, and take it from me, you get a lot more confidence that you can do things to your standards if you aren't entrusting anyone else to the work (in other words, Funimation won't have any control over if Toei will rescan it in a way they find satisfactory).

It's also entirely possible that Funi aren't even ALLOWED by Toei to remaster anything except the third-generation master they have, outside of direct localizations like with Dragon Box Z and Kai where Toei have already done all the work (which, if true, suggests Toei isn't going to do their own remaster of Z, which is depressing...).
winnersproof wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:54 pm
I did my part and respectfully messaged them on Facebook and Twitter about my problems with this release. It's really hard not to be frustrated at this release though, especially with them showing everyone their film scans!
I really appreciate you using a respectful tone there. We're not going to change anybody's mind by going all Dr. Disrespect on them.
I've never been fully informed about these "third-generation masters" that I always here Funimation having. So the source for their releases for DBZ (Pioneer, singles, Orange Bricks, and 2014 Blu-Rays) are not remastered versions of the original 16mm prints and tapes? I know for sure that the DBoxes and Kai used the 16mm prints from scratch.
Basically, Up until the orange bricks for Z. Funimation had Digibetas. Then they got (what I assume) is 16mm broadcast copies that were a few generations away from the original 16mm film.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Scsigs » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:35 am

superfan2024 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:28 am
KBABZ wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:56 pm
superfan2024 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:39 pm
If that actually was the case, couldn't they have asked Toei to send them remastered footage? The same way they remastered the Bardock special a few months ago?
Maybe. Maybe Toei wouldn't let them, or it was cheaper for Funi to use their own internal master of the show than to additionally pay Toei to rescan such a gargantuan piece of work. And asking Toei means you're asking someone else to do it, and take it from me, you get a lot more confidence that you can do things to your standards if you aren't entrusting anyone else to the work (in other words, Funimation won't have any control over if Toei will rescan it in a way they find satisfactory).

It's also entirely possible that Funi aren't even ALLOWED by Toei to remaster anything except the third-generation master they have, outside of direct localizations like with Dragon Box Z and Kai where Toei have already done all the work (which, if true, suggests Toei isn't going to do their own remaster of Z, which is depressing...).
winnersproof wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:54 pm
I did my part and respectfully messaged them on Facebook and Twitter about my problems with this release. It's really hard not to be frustrated at this release though, especially with them showing everyone their film scans!
I really appreciate you using a respectful tone there. We're not going to change anybody's mind by going all Dr. Disrespect on them.
I've never been fully informed about these "third-generation masters" that I always here Funimation having. So the source for their releases for DBZ (Pioneer, singles, Orange Bricks, and 2014 Blu-Rays) are not remastered versions of the original 16mm prints and tapes? I know for sure that the DBoxes and Kai used the 16mm prints from scratch.
Correct. What they are are copies of copies (at least, I'm assuming given the fact that they're 3rd generation). At some point, Toei copied their 1st gen masters on to another film stock that was then copied on to another film & given to FUNi from Toei. So, what FUNi says they have is already not the source film stock for this series, that's locked in Toei's vaults. They have MORE grain than Toei's film stock would have, which is why people were ecstatic when the prospect of them remastering Toei's film stock came up, since it'd be the closest representation of the original airings of the episodes from when they aired in Japan originally.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
TFS getting shafted from the Kai TFC dub is a great travesty.
GT sucks, get over it if you disagree.
We'll see what happens to Vic.
Um...Listen to Waterparks.
That is all.
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Shaddy
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Shaddy » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:36 am

Ok, better idea, do we know who is in charge of this? Do we have any business emails of the execs that decide this that we as a community can message directly? Obviously they're not gonna listen to twitter messages. The more directly we can take this to individuals the better.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Rakurai » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:41 am

I usually don't care enough to comment on whatever Funimation releases, but I honestly can't believe how badly Funimation is fucking up this remastering. Like my god the grain removal just results in a smear of the original, resulting in a lot of lost detail.

https://twitter.com/gravitypriest/statu ... 8304398342

Fucking Gohan looks like he's been forehead painting on the right instead of wounded. Jesus. And who the fuck are these hardcore fans they're referring to? The same people who watched Z with the Bruce Faulconer soundtrack? Are they going to include that OST in this remaster as well?

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:43 am

superfan2024 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:28 am
I've never been fully informed about these "third-generation masters" that I always here Funimation having. So the source for their releases for DBZ (Pioneer, singles, Orange Bricks, and 2014 Blu-Rays) are not remastered versions of the original 16mm prints and tapes? I know for sure that the DBoxes and Kai used the 16mm prints from scratch.
Back when Funimation first did the Orange Bricks, they were provided third generation masters of the show by Toei. If you don't know what a "film generation" is, it refers to how many times a piece of film is copied down a chain of copies. Think of it like scanning a picture, printing it out, and scanning it again. It's demonstrated well in regard to VHS tapes in this video.

Since Funimation were first working with the show, they've been using this same master (to the best of my knowledge), and it's been the source for every internal release of theirs since the Orange Bricks. Toei of course have the original first-generation master that was made for broadcast, where it was copied again for the networks (I would imagine Funi's master is a copy of those, hence why it's a third generation master). The original master that was copied for the networks is what Toei used for all of the Dragon Boxes.

Since Funimation have NEVER remastered footage directly scanned in from that first-generation master, this is why I believe they consider it too expensive to attempt, or even restricted from doing.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by winnersproof » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:45 am

superfan2024 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:28 am
I've never been fully informed about these "third-generation masters" that I always here Funimation having. So the source for their releases for DBZ (Pioneer, singles, Orange Bricks, and 2014 Blu-Rays) are not remastered versions of the original 16mm prints and tapes? I know for sure that the DBoxes and Kai used the 16mm prints from scratch.
To echo what everyone else has said, Funimation's prints are grainier and I'm sure a bit more damaged than what Toei has locked away. However, as we've seen on the Level sets and today with the images Funimation posted, these prints still look pretty damn good even with the heavier grain. Now if only we could get a release that doesn't destroy all that detail...
VegettoEX wrote:It's completely blown out of proportion by fans who have never actually dealt with seeing Dragon Ball on a week-to-week basis before, are doing so in an era where the social media echo-chamber has never been more effective in regurgitating and parroting their own opinions back at them, have never seen something new for the first time in HD on a monitor six inches from their face, have no understanding of the animation industry, and see no irony at all in complaining about a product they have no legal right to even be watching in the first place.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:56 am

winnersproof wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:45 am
superfan2024 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:28 am
I've never been fully informed about these "third-generation masters" that I always here Funimation having. So the source for their releases for DBZ (Pioneer, singles, Orange Bricks, and 2014 Blu-Rays) are not remastered versions of the original 16mm prints and tapes? I know for sure that the DBoxes and Kai used the 16mm prints from scratch.
To echo what everyone else has said, Funimation's prints are grainier and I'm sure a bit more damaged than what Toei has locked away. However, as we've seen on the Level sets and today with the images Funimation posted, these prints still look pretty damn good even with the heavier grain. Now if only we could get a release that doesn't destroy all that detail...
I'd not mind a Blu-ray release of it exactly as those uncompressed screenshots showed. I would friggin love to watch DBZ with THAT quality.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by winnersproof » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:14 am

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:56 am
I'd not mind a Blu-ray release of it exactly as those uncompressed screenshots showed. I would friggin love to watch DBZ with THAT quality.
I think we all would! It kills me seeing those images. Even if it's a third generation print, I get to see just a tiny glimpse of how great one of my favorite episodes in the franchise (#184) can look when it's truly presented in HD.
VegettoEX wrote:It's completely blown out of proportion by fans who have never actually dealt with seeing Dragon Ball on a week-to-week basis before, are doing so in an era where the social media echo-chamber has never been more effective in regurgitating and parroting their own opinions back at them, have never seen something new for the first time in HD on a monitor six inches from their face, have no understanding of the animation industry, and see no irony at all in complaining about a product they have no legal right to even be watching in the first place.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by lansing » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:15 am

Now with this new trailer, what they need to do is throw that DNR crap out the window and release that "before" scan. For one, their noise reduction filter sucks, and two, their color correction sucks.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by MistaL » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:43 am

Scsigs wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:00 am

I know he's a pariah here, so don't crucify me, but Enigmo actually made a good video showing that the way FUNi is cropping the series from the raw film masters is a bunch of bullshit. He showed how an amateur fan editor can keep as much of the raw video in the frame as possible with Photoshop. FUNi could DEFINITELY do a much better job here.
Would you mind linking that video? I can't find it on the shithead's YouTube channel at all.

EDIT: Never mind, it was on his other channel that he sometimes likes to pretend isn't his. He only shows the episode 1 frames, which many people in this thread have already noted is strangely zoomed in more than any of the other frames. He's ignoring the other ones in order to continue looking like an epic remastering god, in typical Enigmo fashion.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by superfan2024 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:55 am

I am actually fine with Funimation's cropping as of right now. Based on the blog, it seems they are doing the cropping manually, and some shots look "okay."

My issue is their horrible DNR and color correction. Lines are looking blurry, and the colors are so freaking saturated. If Funi listens to the fans and removes the horrific DNR and color correction/saturation, then this might just be a perfect release.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Scsigs » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:56 am

MistaL wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:43 am
Scsigs wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:00 am
I know he's a pariah here, so don't crucify me, but Enigmo actually made a good video showing that the way FUNi is cropping the series from the raw film masters is a bunch of bullshit. He showed how an amateur fan editor can keep as much of the raw video in the frame as possible with Photoshop. FUNi could DEFINITELY do a much better job here.
Would you mind linking that video? I can't find it on the shithead's YouTube channel at all.

EDIT: Never mind, it was on his other channel that he sometimes likes to pretend isn't his. He only shows the episode 1 frames, which many people in this thread have already noted is strangely zoomed in more than any of the other frames. He's ignoring the other ones in order to continue looking like an epic remastering god, in typical Enigmo fashion.
True, I just thought it was something to note.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
TFS getting shafted from the Kai TFC dub is a great travesty.
GT sucks, get over it if you disagree.
We'll see what happens to Vic.
Um...Listen to Waterparks.
That is all.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by lansing » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:13 am

Okay as for the cropping goes, from what I'm seeing, they did crop the top and bottom of ep1 extensively possibly to remove the tape mark, but other than that, the rest of the other screenshots were pretty much untouched from the original scan, which is good. Can anyone with kai and dragon box confirms these shots?

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:18 am

lansing wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:13 am
Okay as for the cropping goes, from what I'm seeing, they did crop the top and bottom of ep1 extensively possibly to remove the tape mark, but other than that, the rest of the other screenshots were pretty much untouched from the original scan, which is good. Can anyone with kai and dragon box confirms these shots?
Zooming is indeed comparable to and sometimes better than the Japanese Dragon Box, outside of episode 1 which definitely feels cramped (sorry for some of the screenshots being janky due to YouTube and what not. I need to go through some of the other shots in the blog post and compare them to the Dragon Box soon):
Forte224 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:56 pm

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:37 am

Forte224 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:18 am
(sorry for some of the screenshots being janky due to YouTube and what not
Use this program to download YouTube videos.

EDIT: Looks like they're still using that Yamcha Blue Brick green grading, ugh.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:46 am

KBABZ wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:37 am
Forte224 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:18 am
(sorry for some of the screenshots being janky due to YouTube and what not
Use this program to download YouTube videos.

EDIT: Looks like they're still using that Yamcha Blue Brick green grading, ugh.
Yeah I should stop being a lazy bum and just download the video. The blog post has given us more shots to actually compare though so I guess that's fine too. Speaking of which, here's another. We seem to have an almost identical amount of picture, but the Black Brick simply shows slightly more on the left, while the Dragon Box shows slightly more on the right. Of course, DNR, saturation and etc. we already know aren't good without a comparison:

Raw Image
Image

Black Brick
Image

Japanese Dragon Box Z
Image

Oh, and I asked on Twitter if there is a more direct place we could send our complaints and requests to, as I'm sure whoever runs the Twitter account isn't the same person that these issues concern. I doubt I'll get a response, but we'll see. I sent a random customer support ticket in. There weren't any categories that specifically addressed these issues so I just sent it to the closest possible department and asked to pass it on.
Last edited by Forte224 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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