Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SpiritBombTriumphant » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:34 am

Soppa Saia People wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:12 am
Scsigs wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:04 pm
I know Kai's a bit soft, but I prefer that to fucking water colors.
yeah, i seriously cannot stand the look of these, they just look so ugly. it's just impressively unappealing.
I just want to say that, despite how shitty this is, I prefer this and even the season BDs to Boo Kai. If there is one thing Funi got right, it's not adding a fucking green tint to the damn picture. I can stand fake grain and knowing that whomever at Funi decided to do it is laughing right now (there! they got their grain! hahahahaha), I can stand (but dislike) the cropping to 16:9, I can stand the watercolor-y look to the picture, but I cannot stand the green tint. I don't know why, it is just my trigger. I simply cannot handle watching anything with it, and would take this set over a set with green tint (ex. Boo Kai) any day.

Funi may have intentionally screwed up, but even that isn't as bad as the green tint we've all come to loathe. So that's at least one thing this set got correct.
Last edited by SpiritBombTriumphant on Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Scsigs » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:38 am

SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:34 am
I just want to say that, despite how shitty this is, I prefer this and even the season BDs to Boo Kai. If there is one thing Funi got right, it's not adding a fucking green tint to the damn picture. I can stand fake grain and knowing that whomever at Funi decided to do it is laughing right now (there! they got their grain! hahahahaha), I can stand (but dislike) the cropping to 16:9, I can stand the watercolor-y look to the picture, but I cannot stand the green tint. I don't know why, it is just my trigger. I simply cannot handle watching anything with it, and would take this set over a set with green tint (ex. Boo Kai) any day.

Funi may have intentionally screwed up, but even that isn't as bad as the green tint we've all come to loathe. So that's at least one thing this set got correct.
I'm the exact opposite. I can deal with a green tint, but I absolutely cannot deal with water colors as a result of heavy DVNR, cropping (which, in Kai TFC's case, I can deal with because of the superior pacing & dub compared to Z), fake grain in place of real grain, & bad color correction. The green tint in Kai: TFC actually wasn't noticeable most of the time & it wasn't actually wasn't that bad when it was there, in my own viewing of the series. The remaster is fine, the colors are good, & everything's clear without losing quality. I don't get how the green tint can bother people that much in that remaster when it's barely there. Now, I could be wrong, since I watched through my Xbox One reading the discs & I don't have it on the "standard" color setting of my Vizio 3D TV (I have it on "Game," which changes mainly how bright the backlight is), but it wasn't that bad in my experience.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by armyandstuff » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:16 am

Metalwario64 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:57 am
KBABZ wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:04 am
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/J1JECNNU

This is the comparison that got me. Look at how the DNR has DESTROYED the lineart on Jeice's glove on the right. In fact at some point the filter blurs the lineart and the shading together at the wrist? Bloody terrible.
That's actually a terrible comparison because that's not the same frame between the two, so we're comparing two different drawings.

Plus, those MP4 rips they're using are very compressed. I can see macroblocking and compression everywhere.

Maybe sometime soon I can whip up some DVD screenshots for proper comparisons, even those are going to look far better than this mess of a Blu-ray.
oh shit you're right, they are different. Also you don't have to take those dvd screenshots, I have the blu rays so I'll remake these comparisons soon.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Kuwabara » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:17 am

The color grading for the 30th Anniversary shots looks positively sickly. Kai has problems too, but at least it has nice color balance.
This is the episode of when Gokuh enrages himself after Freezer talk shit about Kuririn

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:32 pm

For one, all your Kai shots are 720p, not 1080p, so because of the different sizing, direct comparisons aren't so easy. And for another, because of the high level of detail in the 35mm episodes of Kai, 1080p is worthwhile, unlike the majority of Kai's run... So, this comparison is terrible. Sorry.

I'll try to get some proper 1080p ones up using shots from proper 1080p Blu-ray footage.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Masquerade » Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:53 pm

These picks don't do it justice. I'm working on my re-edit again and the actual 1080p of those Kai episodes are sharp as FUCK (sharper than even the digital line work in Super).

I prefer the colors on the 30th though. Kai's palette always felt too "light" for me (but then again I grew up with the look of the Pioneer/Funi singles so the darker shades is just what I associate DBZ with).

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by armyandstuff » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:13 pm

sorry for the delay, I had issues trying to take screenshots on my blu ray player so I had to rip the episodes from the discs themselves.

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/DYDZGNNX
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/J1JCMNNU
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/DYDZPNNX
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/J1JCCNNU
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/J19BJNNU
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/J19BMNNU
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/DY7LGNNX
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/DY7LPNNX
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/DY7DLNNX

I also have some very exciting news regarding the audio of this release. I tried using the surrounds sound on the english dub to see if it was possible to remove the music like in kai and super and still keep the music and sound effects.
The results were mixed. I only have one episode from the buu saga and some from namek at the moment. On the buu saga I was able to remove the music completely, whereas on the namek saga this unfortunately did not work.
But what I did find that is even more exciting is that you can remove the voices completely from the dub and still keep both the music and the sound effects. This worked on both the namek episodes and the buu episode.
Granted the sound effects are pretty quiet at times and have a weird reverb effect (I think that's what it's called) but this is still really cool as I'm quite certain these things aren't possible on the other sets.
I'm gonna try out some other episodes from the saiyan and android saga later to see how those episodes fair as well.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:19 pm

Much better. Thank you very much!! :)

Wow, this one is really damning...
Look at how badly the 30th anniversary messed the speed lines up... So much of them are blurred together into like... Solid, dark gray portions on his shirt? Really bad. Really shows how the real problem with Funi's filtering is that it simply doesn't handle the picture in any kind of consistent or sensible way; loads of detail is stripped out, the linework is all blurry and muddy, and even if it wasn't for the awful Orange Brick-esque erasure of detail, there's such an inconsistency between the blurriness of the linework and how sharp the changes in colours of shading is. And then of course, if you look at it in motion, different parts of the picture will be wobbling in different ways, and the shading is really unstable, shaking and warping around in weird ways, which just looks... Really bad.

I don't know how anyone can look at this set and not see how shit it is. Even Kai 1.0, which I'll always criticise endlessly for how blurry it is from the DNR... At least its only problem is low (nearly standard def) detail level (which, of course, doesn't apply for the 35mm episodes). Funi's sets are just ugly.
armyandstuff wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:13 pm
I also have some very exciting news regarding the audio of this release. I tried using the surrounds sound on the english dub to see if it was possible to remove the music like in kai and super and still keep the music and sound effects.
The results were mixed. I only have one episode from the buu saga and some from namek at the moment. On the buu saga I was able to remove the music completely, whereas on the namek saga this unfortunately did not work.
But what I did find that is even more exciting is that you can remove the voices completely from the dub and still keep both the music and the sound effects. This worked on both the namek episodes and the buu episode.
Granted the sound effects are pretty quiet at times and have a weird reverb effect (I think that's what it's called) but this is still really cool as I'm quite certain these things aren't possible on the other sets.
I'm gonna try out some other episodes from the saiyan and android saga later to see how those episodes fair as well.
Yes. You'll find this is the exact same on the Season BDs, since the audio is the same as on those.
You will also probably find that the Season DVDs are even easier to do this with, as the surround mix was more simple, so the centre track is much more like an isolated voices track, and the surround channels are much more like an isolated music track, with effects generally floating between the centre and front left+right channels.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by armyandstuff » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:44 pm

Ah god dammit, I thought I stumbled upon something huge.
Though I'm a bit puzzled because I've never seen anyone take advantage of the ability to remove the voices.
You'd think everyone would have used it by now to make a bunch of videos either by making fan dubs, or music replacements from the episodes where that's possible, especially since everyone does the latter to kai.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Masquerade » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:06 pm

armyandstuff wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:44 pm
Ah god dammit, I thought I stumbled upon something huge.
Though I'm a bit puzzled because I've never seen anyone take advantage of the ability to remove the voices.
You'd think everyone would have used it by now to make a bunch of videos either by making fan dubs, or music replacements from the episodes where that's possible, especially since everyone does the latter to kai.
https://youtu.be/PFeOkDTDF0Y?t=537

It's pain in the ass to do up to the end of the Saiyan saga, but I and this guy from Kametsu (RIP) named Maestro did it so it's possible. After that it's super easy if you use the Orange Brick 5.1 center channels since those not only are separated complete from the music but also have like 80% of the sound effects in tact.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:16 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:19 pm
Honestly, thats one of the things I dont like about this set, you notice it here http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/J1JCMNNU. Some of the linework becomes translucent which is really weird. But, as I stated before in this thread, if it takes 10 years for another release to come out (even 6 *the gap between this and season 1 bluray*) I'm going to be in or close to my 40s. I'm done, I don't care because there are a lot more important things for me. The show deserves the criterion treatment, its culturally important for Japan and many countries, it's a landmark show. Heck, other landmark shows like the Simpsons get treated even worse. But it's up to TOEI to initate it, they have the best materials to make a great release. If TOEI can't do it, who can?!
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:14 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:16 pm
Honestly, thats one of the things I dont like about this set, you notice it here http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/J1JCMNNU. Some of the linework becomes translucent which is really weird. But, as I stated before in this thread, if it takes 10 years for another release to come out (even 6 *the gap between this and season 1 bluray*) I'm going to be in or close to my 40s. I'm done, I don't care because there are a lot more important things for me. The show deserves the criterion treatment, its culturally important for Japan and many countries, it's a landmark show. Heck, other landmark shows like the Simpsons get treated even worse. But it's up to TOEI to initate it, they have the best materials to make a great release. If TOEI can't do it, who can?!
No one's going to do it. We're stuck with shit forever. Best we can do is settle for the just-about-okay Dragon Box and OG DVD single footage.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by DHM211 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:03 pm

I know that this is 35mm film and cropped to 1.85:1, but imagine if we were able to get the series even closed to being remastered this beautifully :( .

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Danfun64 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:36 pm

Is that the Toei Blu-rays of the movies?
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Tylerman29 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:48 pm

Danfun64 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:36 pm
Is that the Toei Blu-rays of the movies?
Wish FUNi would get those and release em. i'd love new blu ray steelbooks for all the movies.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by DHM211 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:50 pm

Danfun64 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:36 pm
Is that the Toei Blu-rays of the movies?
Yeah but its the Amazon version which is far superior to the actual blu-rays.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Scsigs » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:42 pm

I'll say, I don't care much for YellowFlash 2, but the fact that he's made a video on this terrible release & is spreading the word on how bad they are is good.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:08 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:19 pm
You will also probably find that the Season DVDs are even easier to do this with, as the surround mix was more simple, so the centre track is much more like an isolated voices track, and the surround channels are much more like an isolated music track, with effects generally floating between the centre and front left+right channels.
Correct!

Center = Voices + Sound Effects
Corners: Music + Sound Effects + Voice Echoes

This means that only voices or only sound effects = effectively isolated audio!
armyandstuff wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:44 pm
Though I'm a bit puzzled because I've never seen anyone take advantage of the ability to remove the voices.
BOY LEMME TELL YA! I've been doing Dragon Ball Kai: The First Chapters to do what Kai set out to do applied to the original Dragon Ball (that is, remove filler to manga-only content, but also respect how old the show actually is) Using the Blue Brick surround sound mix has been a GOD SEND to help with audio-related edits, including removing dumb Funi-isms like Daimao claiming he's been all over the universe, to replacing the music from Krillin's entry with the piece composed for the same scene in the Sleeping Princess movie. It also helps a lot in making shot and scene removal much smoother.
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:16 pm
If TOEI can't do it, who can?!
There's a Movie 12 joke in this quote SOMEWHERE...

DNR Explosion!! If Toei Won't Do it, Who Will?

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Danfun64 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:00 am

KBABZ wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:08 pm
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:16 pm
If TOEI can't do it, who can?!
There's a Movie 12 joke in this quote SOMEWHERE...

DNR Explosion!! If Toei Won't Do it, Who Will?
Movie 13, actually. 12 is [Speedy] YOU [gohan] ARE GOKU'S BROTHER [/Speedy]
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SpiritBombTriumphant » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:22 am

Scsigs wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:38 am
SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:34 am
I just want to say that, despite how shitty this is, I prefer this and even the season BDs to Boo Kai. If there is one thing Funi got right, it's not adding a fucking green tint to the damn picture. I can stand fake grain and knowing that whomever at Funi decided to do it is laughing right now (there! they got their grain! hahahahaha), I can stand (but dislike) the cropping to 16:9, I can stand the watercolor-y look to the picture, but I cannot stand the green tint. I don't know why, it is just my trigger. I simply cannot handle watching anything with it, and would take this set over a set with green tint (ex. Boo Kai) any day.

Funi may have intentionally screwed up, but even that isn't as bad as the green tint we've all come to loathe. So that's at least one thing this set got correct.
I'm the exact opposite. I can deal with a green tint, but I absolutely cannot deal with water colors as a result of heavy DVNR, cropping (which, in Kai TFC's case, I can deal with because of the superior pacing & dub compared to Z), fake grain in place of real grain, & bad color correction. The green tint in Kai: TFC actually wasn't noticeable most of the time & it wasn't actually wasn't that bad when it was there, in my own viewing of the series. The remaster is fine, the colors are good, & everything's clear without losing quality. I don't get how the green tint can bother people that much in that remaster when it's barely there. Now, I could be wrong, since I watched through my Xbox One reading the discs & I don't have it on the "standard" color setting of my Vizio 3D TV (I have it on "Game," which changes mainly how bright the backlight is), but it wasn't that bad in my experience.
If you have a TV that is displaying "normal" or "neutral" colors, as opposed to "cool", then it is very noticeable. Being on the "Game" setting most likely changed the color tone to "cool," which basically adds a bunch of blue. That mostly removes the green tint from Boo Kai which is why you didn't notice it. Again, watch it on a properly calibrated, standard monitor/TV with a normal/neutral color tone and it is extremely noticeable. So far, this 30th ann. set has two things: 1. No green tint and 2. Consistent 4:3 ratio.

Two things Kai does not, and #1 is my main trigger for anything. I simply cannot stand that tint. It is my kryptonite, my cancer, it is everything bad to me and absolutely ruins the viewing experience. It is that awful to me. Unfortunately, I've read on Ajay's Twitter (I think) that properly fixing Boo Kai would require tweaking the levels of every single scene. What you are doing with the game setting on your TV and the blue color tone it adds is a cheap and easy fix for the issue as it basically makes it normal.

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