Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Freeza Soldier #156 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:26 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:49 am
So apparently in addition to scalping some sellers on eBay are trying to pass this set off as a "Dragon Box". Could imagine someone scrolling past it and thinking yeah right :lol:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dragon-Ball ... SwwEddyMCG
Apparently they didn’t scroll too fast seeing as someone bought it . :wtf:

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by TheGreatness25 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:02 am

I hope they know what they bought.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:43 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:02 am
I hope they know what they bought.
Think a lot of people just wanted A 4:3 release of DBZ, not specifically THE BEST 4:3 release possible. Those are the fans this set panders to.

Unfortunate thing is that in a few years we will get another "definitive" release that is "less terrible" than this one and the cycle continues.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Tylerman29 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:03 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:43 am
TheGreatness25 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:02 am
I hope they know what they bought.
Think a lot of people just wanted A 4:3 release of DBZ, not specifically THE BEST 4:3 release possible. Those are the fans this set panders to.

Unfortunate thing is that in a few years we will get another "definitive" release that is "less terrible" than this one and the cycle continues.
Maybe, but we don’t KNOW that. I kinda wish we were in another release frenzy era like 2008-2011. I want some variety out there. That era was so great because DB and GT got new releases as well as a DBZ release for every type of fan. (Kai, Levels, oranges bricks, Dboxes). Hell even the movies on Blu ray. I want another time like that. Lots of excitement with a good helping of disappointments along the way.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by TheGreatness25 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:12 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:43 am
TheGreatness25 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:02 am
I hope they know what they bought.
Think a lot of people just wanted A 4:3 release of DBZ, not specifically THE BEST 4:3 release possible. Those are the fans this set panders to.

Unfortunate thing is that in a few years we will get another "definitive" release that is "less terrible" than this one and the cycle continues.
I was referring to the fact that the listing advertised this set as the Dragon Box.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:47 pm

Anyone that has these, how is the zoom? I know in the episode 1 footage from trailers it looked incredibly zoomed in, but all the other footage we saw had the same amount, or more, picture than the Dragon Box. Is that mostly the case throughout?

I’ve been trying to wade through old pages but mostly it’s just about picture quality, and I’m out of town so I can’t compare what’s posted here with my Dragon Box footage yet.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Tylerman29 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:55 pm

Forte224 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:47 pm
but all the other footage we saw had the same amount, or more, picture than the Dragon Box. Is that mostly the case throughout?

Yes
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Forte224 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:32 pm

Tylerman29 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:55 pm
Forte224 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:47 pm
but all the other footage we saw had the same amount, or more, picture than the Dragon Box. Is that mostly the case throughout?

Yes
Well, at least that's a positive I guess. A proper 4:3 image would have seemed impossible even just a few years ago. Thanks.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Jesta' » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:38 pm

If anyone's interested, Enigmo put a section of this set through some filters. I found the results surprising good.
https://youtu.be/CgGbzW-fdIk

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:30 pm

I'm watching episode 126 and it seems like there is less DNR done and you can see some of the original grain, it's a lot more obvious and "blocky" than the fake grain. I cant tell if there is fake grain still (it could be mixing in with the real one.) It does look (obviously) better but I think the compression gets in the way (it kind of does the wear thing to the grain the Rock the Dragon sets did)

Some shots from the Recap and epsiode
ImageImageImageImageImage

There also appears to be more damage to the frames (marks and such) so I'd assume this is around where the deep clean slowed down on the level set remasters.

Also a shot that was featured on zoomed in on one of the season set bonus' if anyone like to compare that
Image

Edit: So oddly, it seems like that episode wasnt as DNRed because the next one goes back to more DNR. I know at some point the series becomes less DNRed, is it the boo saga? Frame compares down so heres some caps
Episode
Image
Re-cap
Image


Does this happen on the season bluray as well?

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:43 pm

Jesta' wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:38 pm
If anyone's interested, Enigmo put a section of this set through some filters. I found the results surprising good.
https://youtu.be/CgGbzW-fdIk
Looks like he degrained it further to remove the fake grain, and didn't actually fix any of the underlying issues. 0/10 for effort tbh. :lol:
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:30 pm
I'm watching episode 126 and it seems like there is less DNR done and you can see some of the original grain, it's a lot more obvious and "blocky" than the fake grain. I cant tell if there is fake grain still (it could be mixing in with the real one.) It does look (obviously) better but I think the compression gets in the way (it kind of does the wear thing to the grain the Rock the Dragon sets did)
Still exhibiting all the problems seen throughout the rest of the set, man. Even if it is a little less aggressively filtered (which, after your edit provides a direct comparison, yeah, it apperas to be so), it's only a slightly shined turd, essentially. Less obliterated, but still obliterated. Still, thanks for the breakdown. Much as I dispise this set, I appreciate someone who owns it giving this detailed information on it.
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:30 pm
There also appears to be more damage to the frames (marks and such) so I'd assume this is around where the deep clean slowed down on the level set remasters.
That's interesting.
I feel the need to add some clarification in regards to "I'd assume this is around where the deep clean slowed down in the level set remasters" -- we're seeing all the tape marks removed at the end of every single shot in every single episode (and the colour grade for the Levels happaned during the film scanning process, as colourist Steve Franko explained, and his transfer and colour work would have been completed for all 291 episodes before Level 2.1 was cancelled), and there's at least one shot where a tape mark cleaned badly on the Levels caused some ghost rocks at the bottom of the picture for one frame duplicated from a couple of frames earlier, which was fixed on the master used for the 30th set, showing no expense was spared in making sure their cleanup job was good for the post-Level remastering, which they then decided to ruin by yeeting their dumb, aggressive DNR+sharpening on top at the end...

But yes, it is interesting that you note more film damage. I'd be curious to see some screenshots of the film damage.
Much as I do object to the commonly-spread narrative that the 30th and Season BD masters used their shitty filtering out of necessity to get a cheaper set out, which is often implied by suggestions that the remastering was done cheaper after the Levels, it is possible that the cleanup they did after the Levels, which formed the base of the Season BDs and the 30th sets, was done with slightly less work put on painting out every single blemish on the film, if what you're saying is true.
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:30 pm
Edit: So oddly, it seems like that episode wasnt as DNRed because the next one goes back to more DNR. I know at some point the series becomes less DNRed, is it the boo saga? Frame compares down so heres some caps

Does this happen on the season bluray as well?
Huh.
Gimme a moment, I'll have a friend check that out.
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Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:15 pm

I'll try to grab some (I'm using Leawo player cause it's free and lets me take screenshots, but it doesnt have a frame by frame option). it's small little spects (black and white). There are dust and such too, but I'm not sure those would of been removed on the level remasters. No sign of tape marks (as you pointed out) so I assume those were done first and (or even dont for this set *maybe*). I never bought the 16x9 to avoid tape marks because they could have zoomed in the 4x3 ala Blue bricks. But the less DNRing did make a huge difference in motion I think (espeshally for the backgrounds and smaller linework)
I also think the damage on the frames are evident on the later season blurays as well, I belive they were pointed out here in the season set thread, if I can find it i'll quote it here

Edit:
Was able to nab a shot of this hair that lasts a few frames.
Image

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Scsigs » Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:52 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:15 pm
I'll try to grab some (I'm using Leawo player cause it's free and lets me take screenshots, but it doesn't have a frame by frame option). it's small little spects (black and white). There are dust and such too, but I'm not sure those would of been removed on the level remasters. No sign of tape marks (as you pointed out) so I assume those were done first and (or even don't for this set *maybe*). I never bought the 16x9 to avoid tape marks because they could have zoomed in the 4x3 ala Blue bricks. But the less DNRing did make a huge difference in motion I think (especially for the backgrounds and smaller line work)
I also think the damage on the frames are evident on the later season blu-rays as well, I believe they were pointed out here in the season set thread, if I can find it i'll quote it here

Edit:
Was able to nab a shot of this hair that lasts a few frames.
Image
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:12 pm

A friend compared screenshots to the Season BD from some encodes they found. They are encodes, so not really much to draw solid conclusions from, but it doesn't appear that there's any grain that the encode is smoothing out (it's generally quite obvious when an encoder is failing to render grain, after all), and it does look like the Season BD has the same lack of grain between the two episodes... Hopefully I can get ahold of proper screenshots to confirm this, but... Well, as my friend pointed out to me, it's most likely that Funi simply set their fake grain filter on a higher setting for #126.

Would be very interesting if they did use a less aggressive DNR setting for that episode on the 30th sets, but at this point, it's hard to say, and I'm still leaning more on the side of them just using different fake grain settings in that episode. I don't see any greater detail level on the more grainy picture, and the level of uglification is still consistent with the rest of the set, so I'd favour this theory.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by funrush » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:15 pm

Do we have an explanation or even a theory as to why they threw on some fake grain? Why add fake grain instead of just turning down the DNR to leave a comparable amount of actually real grain? Was it too late to go back and fix so they threw on fake grain to trick us?

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:18 pm

funrush wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:15 pm
Do we have an explanation or even a theory as to why they threw on some fake grain? Why add fake grain instead of just turning down the DNR to leave a comparable amount of actually real grain? Was it too late to go back and fix so they threw on fake grain to trick us?
We can only guess, and it is an utterly baffling commercial decision... Though really, it doesn't make any more sense than any of the other decisions made going into this set, or indeed the last.

If you really want a proper theory on the thinking behind this particular decision, a friend of mine suggests this: Funi's workflow with this set is to take their cleaned-up masters, apply a DNR, then apply a sharpener. Lowering the level of DNR would work poorly with their sharpener, so they added grain on top instead. Grain isn't just spots of random brightness/darkness, it applies across colour channels too. You don't really notice this if not looking at a screenshot, but if you heavily sharpen the image, the brightness variations would become very clear, and it would give the image a very ugly look. So, rather than take away the ugly DNR and sharpening all together, Funi just yeeted a fake grain plate on top. (Worth noting: If you look at the grain in the 30th set screenshots, you'll find the grain is all monochrome. Very clearly fake)

I think it is ultimately a pretty perfect summation of this set's perfectly arranged status as pandering in all the wrong ways to both kinds of potential fan you could imagine (the hardcore fans who actually care what the picture looks like and would pay a lot to get the show properly but isn't interested in buying any more DNR'd sharpened shit, and Average Joe who -- when pressed for a preference -- just goes with whatever image looks superficially cleaner/flashier but will probably just pick up whatever release is cheaper on Amazon), and ends up catering to neither.

Frankly, I'm surprised it even managed the 4.5k sales it got.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ABED » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:40 pm

I'm not surprised. It's DBZ. If it's price point is good enough, people will buy it.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:45 pm

funrush wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:15 pm
Do we have an explanation or even a theory as to why they threw on some fake grain? Why add fake grain instead of just turning down the DNR to leave a comparable amount of actually real grain? Was it too late to go back and fix so they threw on fake grain to trick us?
Oh that's easy: after Kanzenshuu-class fans complained about the DNR being in use again (as an inheritance from the Blu Seasons), they chucked it on to try and fool them into thinking they lightened up the DNR and preserved detail. That's my take anyway. As Robo implies, anyone who frequents this forum wouldn't be fooled as the watercolor'd backgrounds are still plainly visible.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:02 pm

Seeing it in motion, I'm pretty sure it's the original grain. The grain that is there has a very similar look towards the level sets and the backgrounds and such look better in motion.
I for the love of god cannot get blurays to play on VLC for some reason, even just playing the M2TS files

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by TheGreatness25 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:18 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:02 pm
I for the love of god cannot get blurays to play on VLC for some reason, even just playing the M2TS files
I find that it only works if you have some kind of decryption software.

Call me naive -- and I'm not saying that this theory isn't correct, because I'm more than sure that everyone knows what they're talking about -- but how could one tell if the grain is original or artificial? That's pretty fascinating attention to detail.

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