Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

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jaisonas
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by jaisonas » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:05 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:26 pm
The Dragon Boxes most definitely had both DNR and sharpening, but it was applied tastefully.
I dont think the dragonboxes had dnr, rather they were hit with the natural bandwidth limitations of the mpeg2 on dvd format.

Also kinda unrelated, but i feel as toei may have fucked the colours themselves on the dragonboxes. After their release of the remaster movies on amazon/netflix, i thought the colours looked stunning even though it was clear that they didnt do any major processing, but checking back at the movies on dragonboxes, they had the same bad hues that the series had. Dunno just a thought. :?
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:05 am

jaisonas wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:05 am
Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:26 pm
The Dragon Boxes most definitely had both DNR and sharpening, but it was applied tastefully.
I dont think the dragonboxes had dnr, rather they were hit with the natural bandwidth limitations of the mpeg2 on dvd format.
No, I know for a fact they do. You can see artefacts of it in dark areas.

See: https://slow.pics/c/kH6BObxt

Toei's DNR largely relies on motion blurring.

As for "natural bandwidth limitations of mpeg2"; that shouldn't really be an issue with material like this, particularly with the rather high bitrates used on the Dragon Box DVDs.
jaisonas wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:05 am
Also kinda unrelated, but i feel as toei may have fucked the colours themselves on the dragonboxes. After their release of the remaster movies on amazon/netflix, i thought the colours looked stunning even though it was clear that they didnt do any major processing, but checking back at the movies on dragonboxes, they had the same bad hues that the series had. Dunno just a thought. :?
The Dragon Box colours are un-colour-corrected film that was 10-20 years old at time of scanning. Film colour naturally distorts as time goes on, so it needs correcting. For their releases of the movies, they fixed the colours up, restoring them to how they should look (approximately), but the Dragon Boxes, they didn't do any kind of colour-correcting, so the colours are all fucked up.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by thejeremymenace » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:30 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:05 am
jaisonas wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:05 am
Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:26 pm
The Dragon Boxes most definitely had both DNR and sharpening, but it was applied tastefully.
I dont think the dragonboxes had dnr, rather they were hit with the natural bandwidth limitations of the mpeg2 on dvd format.
No, I know for a fact they do. You can see artefacts of it in dark areas.

See: https://slow.pics/c/kH6BObxt

Toei's DNR largely relies on motion blurring.

As for "natural bandwidth limitations of mpeg2"; that shouldn't really be an issue with material like this, particularly with the rather high bitrates used on the Dragon Box DVDs.
I've seen this ghosting occur in a few Japanese remasters for some reason. Ranma and YYH have the same phenomenon in some scenes. I attributed it to some kind of accidental frame blending/IVTC during the process, but it may be DNR after all.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:49 am

thejeremymenace wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:30 am
Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:05 am
jaisonas wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:05 am

I dont think the dragonboxes had dnr, rather they were hit with the natural bandwidth limitations of the mpeg2 on dvd format.
No, I know for a fact they do. You can see artefacts of it in dark areas.

See: https://slow.pics/c/kH6BObxt

Toei's DNR largely relies on motion blurring.

As for "natural bandwidth limitations of mpeg2"; that shouldn't really be an issue with material like this, particularly with the rather high bitrates used on the Dragon Box DVDs.
I've seen this ghosting occur in a few Japanese remasters for some reason. Ranma and YYH have the same phenomenon in some scenes. I attributed it to some kind of accidental frame blending/IVTC during the process, but it may be DNR after all.
No, it would be DNR. IVTC wouldn't apply, they're scanning from film. The only way IVTC gets involved is when you're playing the DVD back.

In any case, this blurring doesn't happen on the Spanish upscales of the Dragon Box masters, which were created using the unfiltered, raw Dragon Box scans, which typically have a bit more grain (but Selecta Vision applied their own DNR).
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ect5150 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:16 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:05 am

No, I know for a fact they do. You can see artefacts of it in dark areas.

See: https://slow.pics/c/kH6BObxt

Toei's DNR largely relies on motion blurring.
What episode is that from?

Also, you need to provide other examples in the Dragon Box footage for the claim that the Dragon Box's are motion blurred. Otherwise it's just anecdotal.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:41 pm

ect5150 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:16 pm
What episode is that from?
That's from the Pirate Cave saga, it's when Goku, Bulma and Krillin first investigate the underwater trench with Roshi's submarine. I remember because Robo brought it up during the Rewatch thread a few months ago.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by kei17 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:57 pm

From episode 15

Dragon Box:
Image Image

Image Image

Spanish Blu-ray:
Image
Image

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Tylerman29 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:58 pm

Does anyone have 30th set comparisons of shots after the Saiyan arc?
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:07 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:05 am
No, I know for a fact they do. You can see artefacts of it in dark areas.

See: https://slow.pics/c/kH6BObxt

Toei's DNR largely relies on motion blurring.

As for "natural bandwidth limitations of mpeg2"; that shouldn't really be an issue with material like this, particularly with the rather high bitrates used on the Dragon Box DVDs.
So that's what made dark scenes, particularly in OG DB, look so strange when in motion. Never thought of that before. Probably the most noticeable example for me was the scene with Goku and the giant octopus. The weird artifacting got pretty distracting.
First time Dragon Ball fan as of March 2020. Still learning the ropes. Nothing much else to say,
  • Preferred viewing order = DB ---> Kai ---> Super + Relevant movies (DB subbed, all others dubbed)
  • Favorite Arcs = Red Ribbon Army, Saiyan Arc, Frieza Arc, 23rd Budoukai, Piccolo Daimao
  • Favorite Characters Besides Goku/Vegeta = General Blue, Pilaf Gang, Crane Hermit, Bulma, Yamcha, Krillin, Frieza, Ginyu Force, Tournament Announcer, Lunch, Broly, and Piccolo

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Trachta10 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:23 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:05 am
jaisonas wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:05 am
Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:26 pm
The Dragon Boxes most definitely had both DNR and sharpening, but it was applied tastefully.
I dont think the dragonboxes had dnr, rather they were hit with the natural bandwidth limitations of the mpeg2 on dvd format.
No, I know for a fact they do. You can see artefacts of it in dark areas.

See: https://slow.pics/c/kH6BObxt

Toei's DNR largely relies on motion blurring.

As for "natural bandwidth limitations of mpeg2"; that shouldn't really be an issue with material like this, particularly with the rather high bitrates used on the Dragon Box DVDs.
For me the linework looks too different to be a DNR, also the mountain from behind does not have that problem,
so the rocks in front could be two different drawings, it is normal that if a rock is moving they use more cels to represent that movement

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by kyppk » Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:49 am

Tylerman29 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:58 pm
Does anyone have 30th set comparisons of shots after the Saiyan arc?
I've got a couple shots of the 30th with the episodes and times for each shot if you or someone else can get the shots from other sources.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... WIzmA2BqhC - Google Drive of the Pictures. Each one is a .png with the title being "episode#-XXminutesXXseconds"

https://imgur.com/a/JCoqjdM - Imgur of the all the same pics

Edit: Since it may be relevant, the google drive post also has a picture from these threads a while ago. I posted these images on reddit originally, since I couldn't make an account here when the 30th released. Here's part of the post to explain why the image is there, although the comparison isn't frame perfect I figured it was good enough at the time.
https://imgur.com/a/088RDRV - This one is the only comparison I could do since I don't own any other set. The one with blacks bars on the side is mine from the 30th, and the other one is provided by 'robo4900' on kanzenshuu (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=43623&start=3940) most of the way down is the pic, I believe it's technically from the level sets.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:13 am

kyppk wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:49 am
Tylerman29 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:58 pm
Does anyone have 30th set comparisons of shots after the Saiyan arc?
I've got a couple shots of the 30th with the episodes and times for each shot if you or someone else can get the shots from other sources.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... WIzmA2BqhC - Google Drive of the Pictures. Each one is a .png with the title being "episode#-XXminutesXXseconds"

https://imgur.com/a/JCoqjdM - Imgur of the all the same pics

Edit: Since it may be relevant, the google drive post also has a picture from these threads a while ago. I posted these images on reddit originally, since I couldn't make an account here when the 30th released. Here's part of the post to explain why the image is there, although the comparison isn't frame perfect I figured it was good enough at the time.
https://imgur.com/a/088RDRV - This one is the only comparison I could do since I don't own any other set. The one with blacks bars on the side is mine from the 30th, and the other one is provided by 'robo4900' on kanzenshuu (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=43623&start=3940) most of the way down is the pic, I believe it's technically from the level sets.
Thanks for getting these screenshots for us, good mix of arcs too.
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  • Favorite Arcs = Red Ribbon Army, Saiyan Arc, Frieza Arc, 23rd Budoukai, Piccolo Daimao
  • Favorite Characters Besides Goku/Vegeta = General Blue, Pilaf Gang, Crane Hermit, Bulma, Yamcha, Krillin, Frieza, Ginyu Force, Tournament Announcer, Lunch, Broly, and Piccolo

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by kyppk » Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:26 am

ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:13 am
Thanks for getting these screenshots for us, good mix of arcs too.
I tried to get a couple shots from each major saga outside of the Saiyan saga, since, at the time, it was all people were comparing. If you or anyone else wants some more shots then I can get them, provided I'm told the episode its from.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by TheGreatness25 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:05 am

If I have time and remember to, I'll put out some. I thought I did, but I guess not.

But I know that I did a lot of comparison shots to the Saiyan arc. My reason was to compare between this and the Level sets.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by thejeremymenace » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:12 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:49 am
thejeremymenace wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:30 am
Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:05 am

No, I know for a fact they do. You can see artefacts of it in dark areas.

See: https://slow.pics/c/kH6BObxt

Toei's DNR largely relies on motion blurring.

As for "natural bandwidth limitations of mpeg2"; that shouldn't really be an issue with material like this, particularly with the rather high bitrates used on the Dragon Box DVDs.
I've seen this ghosting occur in a few Japanese remasters for some reason. Ranma and YYH have the same phenomenon in some scenes. I attributed it to some kind of accidental frame blending/IVTC during the process, but it may be DNR after all.
No, it would be DNR. IVTC wouldn't apply, they're scanning from film. The only way IVTC gets involved is when you're playing the DVD back.

In any case, this blurring doesn't happen on the Spanish upscales of the Dragon Box masters, which were created using the unfiltered, raw Dragon Box scans, which typically have a bit more grain (but Selecta Vision applied their own DNR).
Yeah, makes sense. In my imagination I thought maybe they had mistakenly applied extra steps at some point. I hadn't considered the DNR case :lol:

Also that's really interesting that the SV release doesn't have this... has anyone checked the Netflix Japan version?
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:20 pm

kei17 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:57 pm
From episode 15

Dragon Box:
Image Image

Image Image

Spanish Blu-ray:
Image
Image
I'm kind of impressed, that actually doesn't look half bad. Looks much more watchable than Funi's worst work, i'll give it that
First time Dragon Ball fan as of March 2020. Still learning the ropes. Nothing much else to say,
  • Preferred viewing order = DB ---> Kai ---> Super + Relevant movies (DB subbed, all others dubbed)
  • Favorite Arcs = Red Ribbon Army, Saiyan Arc, Frieza Arc, 23rd Budoukai, Piccolo Daimao
  • Favorite Characters Besides Goku/Vegeta = General Blue, Pilaf Gang, Crane Hermit, Bulma, Yamcha, Krillin, Frieza, Ginyu Force, Tournament Announcer, Lunch, Broly, and Piccolo

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by kei17 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:21 am

ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:20 pm
I'm kind of impressed, that actually doesn't look half bad. Looks much more watchable than Funi's worst work, i'll give it that
The point here is that it doesn't have the ghosting caused by DNR that can be seen on the DBox.

Image Image

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:25 am

kei17 wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:21 am
ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:20 pm
I'm kind of impressed, that actually doesn't look half bad. Looks much more watchable than Funi's worst work, i'll give it that
The point here is that it doesn't have the ghosting caused by DNR that can be seen on the DBox.

Image Image
Ohhh I see, similar to frame ghosting!

For those who don't know, frame ghosting is when the render output of something is different from the source footage. The editing program has to make frames up to fill in the gaps, which it does by moving to the next frame and overlaying a "ghost" of the frame before it, filling the gap.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:32 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:50 am
, because the first three Dragon Ball movies go through three completely different voice actors for Goku and two for Bulma,
Other way around actually. Three for Bulma; Monica Rial (or Maggie O’Hara if you have the BLT version), Leslie Alexander aka middle age Librarian, and then Tiffany Vollmer. Goku only had two Colleen Clinkenbeard (or Saffron Henderson if you’re watching the BLT dub) and Ceyli Degadillo for movie 2 and 3. If you factor in the 10th anniversary film then Goku had 3 different voice actresses with that being Nadolny’s only Dragon Ball film as Goku, since it was ,ironically, the only DB film to be dubbed while the tv series dub was in production.
not to mention the dub for movie 2 is one of the EARLIEST dubs Funimation ever did and it's god-awful.
Their very first in-house project and it makes season 3 almost acceptable by comparison.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:08 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:32 pm
KBABZ wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:50 am
, because the first three Dragon Ball movies go through three completely different voice actors for Goku and two for Bulma,
Other way around actually. Three for Bulma; Monica Rial (or Maggie O’Hara if you have the BLT version), Leslie Alexander aka middle age Librarian, and then Tiffany Vollmer. Goku only had two Colleen Clinkenbeard (or Saffron Henderson if you’re watching the BLT dub) and Ceyli Degadillo for movie 2 and 3. If you factor in the 10th anniversary film then Goku had 3 different voice actresses with that being Nadolny’s only Dragon Ball film as Goku, since it was ,ironically, the only DB film to be dubbed while the tv series dub was in production.
not to mention the dub for movie 2 is one of the EARLIEST dubs Funimation ever did and it's god-awful.
Their very first in-house project and it makes season 3 almost acceptable by comparison.

I too think it's hands down the absolute worst dub of the early in house era with the DBZ Season 3 dub (OG 1999 version, and then to a lesser extent the patchwork 2007 Orange Brick redub version) as close second. Seriously, you can tell it was done back in the day when FUNi didn't even have good audio recording equipment due to how small of a company they were at the time.
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1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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