Funimation's 30th anniversary collectible home video release

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Robo4900
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:13 pm

KBABZ wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:12 pm I'd imagine they cleaned up more of the tape marks for the Blu-Ray sets because they use selective 16:9 cropping to frame the shot as best it can. In Robo's example shot, that's plainly the bottom. The OBs meanwhile were of course a totally centered 16:9 crop which totally ruins almost every shot, but it meant you didn't have to worry about tape marks at all.
Indeed.
You can actually see in the remastering feature for the OBs that the transfer was done with a 16:9 crop built in.

Whereas, I haven't seen it in a while, but I'm pretty sure the Season BDs' behind-the-scenes shows their cleanup process being 4:3 until the manual reframing step right at the end (I think after it's had the colour fuckery and DNR+sharpening, even).
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by kyppk » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:16 pm

VanceRefrigeration wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:20 am The tape mark being there on other sources must mean that it was removed on the Season BD. So if they were cleaning up the film with knowledge of this sort of cropping, maybe they figured it would be safer to just remove all the tape marks to allow for any kind of framing on any given shot.

About whether they could have removed them specifically for the 30th, I'm not sure if there was enough time. There had to be 3000 pledges for them to even know they would be making the thing, and that happened in mid-April 2019, while people started receiving the sets in November 2019. I'd guess they would have to have the video work done at least a month before that to give time to package >3000 sets. So is 6 months enough time to remove tape marks at the end of every shot for 291 episodes? Maybe. I don't know.
Given the various facts provided by multiple people in the thread, I'm currently of the opinion that the Season Sets only received a partial cleanup. Of course it would be impossible to know exactly where the crop would be in a given frame given that the cropping would be one of the last steps, but it's not like you couldn't decide what frames absolutely needed to be fixed and which wouldn't during the cleanup or on the fly. Like, if there's a fight between two characters in the sky and there's really "nothing to gain" by fixing the tape mark it wouldn't be crazy to assume they would skip it. That might even partially explain why the 30th took so long to release between preorder and shipment, since it's possible they fixed those leftover frames in that time.

I guess what really determines if they fixed every frame, beyond reasonable doubt, for the Season Sets is if the decision to crop them came before/during the repairing or after it.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by VanceRefrigeration » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:31 am

kyppk wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:16 pm Given the various facts provided by multiple people in the thread, I'm currently of the opinion that the seasons only received a partial cleanup. Of course it would be impossible to know exactly where the crop would be in a given frame given that the cropping would be one of the last steps, but it's not like you couldn't decide what frames absolutely needed to be fixed and which wouldn't during the cleanup or on the fly. Like, if there's a fight between two characters in the sky and there's really "nothing to gain" by fixing the tape mark it wouldn't be crazy to assume they would skip it. That might even partially explain why the 30th took so long to release between preorder and shipment, since it's possible they fixed those leftover frames in that time.

I guess what really determines if they fixed every frame, beyond reasonable doubt, for the Season Sets is if the decision to crop them came before/during the repairing or after it.
The thing is though, most shots' focal point is in the middle of the frame, including shots where "there's a fight between two characters in the sky". And as we have already seen, even shots with a center focus occasionally have a weird framing on the Season BD where they are lower than is ideal, and we can see that the tape mark was removed. So even if what you think is correct, that they didn't remove tape marks on shots with a higher focal point, these kinds of shots are not the norm and so on a vast majority of shots, there would be no way for them to know for sure if removing the tape mark would be necessary or not, so they'd probably just remove it. And really, if they're removing them on most shots, it wouldn't really be too much extra work to just remove all of them. I would honestly be surprised if they went through the trouble of removing them on 95% of shots, just to leave 5% unfixed.

Funimation even said in their interview with Kanzenshuu that they went through an "intensive process of fixing blemishes, tape marks, scratches, and foreign object". Now I know a lot of their answers try to put a favorable spin on their questionable decisions, but I do believe them about the technical details. We can maybe speculate that they excluded some shots in this process, but because such shots would be so uncommon, I feel that it would be more practical to just do all of them at once, especially since that would future-proof the master should they ever decide to do a 4:3 version later on.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by kyppk » Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:55 am

VanceRefrigeration wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:31 am So even if what you think is correct, that they didn't remove tape marks on shots with a higher focal point, these kinds of shots are not the norm and so on a vast majority of shots, there would be no way for them to know for sure if removing the tape mark would be necessary or not, so they'd probably just remove it. And really, if they're removing them on most shots, it wouldn't really be too much extra work to just remove all of them. I would honestly be surprised if they went through the trouble of removing them on 95% of shots, just to leave 5% unfixed.
I'm not quite suggesting that shots with a higher focal point didn't have the tape marks removed, more so that any shot in which you can't see the area itself doesn't have them removed. Although, it would be an impossible task to quantify just how many scenes are shot so that the fixed tape mark area shows vs not.

If the lead editor has the knowledge that the product will be cropped then they can choose which frames need tape marks removed based on some metric, and frames that aren't fixed can be cropped around.
VanceRefrigeration wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:31 am We can maybe speculate that they excluded some shots in this process, but because such shots would be so uncommon, I feel that it would be more practical to just do all of them at once, especially since that would future-proof the master should they ever decide to do a 4:3 version later on.
I don't disagree from a practical position as a person, but I do disagree from a logical position as a business. Investing money in a product that you can sell immediately but choose to wait years for is an opportunity waste of said money and something no business would do. If it costs X to fully edit the series (the argument that the Season Sets were fully edited) and X-Y to partially edit the series (the argument that the Season Sets were partly edited), then it would only cost Funi Y to complete the editing in the future (maybe even less if editing software progresses enough in that time that it makes the process quicker/simpler/more efficient). It's not like they even stand to potentially lose sales by not completing the edits, since the final product (Season Sets) isn't changed in any way.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:34 am

VanceRefrigeration wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:31 am The thing is though, most shots' focal point is in the middle of the frame, including shots where "there's a fight between two characters in the sky".
My problem there though is that while most shots communicate what they need do with a 16:9 crop, the framing of it and the actual frame real estate is still compromised. Watching The Final Chapters after Kai feels like watching the final arc from inside a letterbox because there's no space around the subjects, and the tops and bottoms of characters are frequently clipped off. There's no breathing room at all.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by VanceRefrigeration » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:59 am

kyppk wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:55 am I'm not quite suggesting that shots with a higher focal point didn't have the tape marks removed, more so that any shot in which you can't see the area itself doesn't have them removed. Although, it would be an impossible task to quantify just how many scenes are shot so that the fixed tape mark area shows vs not.

If the lead editor has the knowledge that the product will be cropped then they can choose which frames need tape marks removed based on some metric, and frames that aren't fixed can be cropped around.
Just as a reminder, the frame-by-frame cleanup was done first, then the cropped framing was decided. They told us this in the Season BD video extra with Matt O'Hara. Unless you're suggesting that the person in charge of framing went through the footage frame-by-frame twice: once before cleanup to mark frames that didn't need tape marks removed, and once after clean-up to actually go through and do the selective cropping...this would probably take more time than just having the cleaner remove all tape marks. If they really wanted to go down that route and not waste time, then the framing should take place before the cleaning so that the cleaners would have the exact knowledge about whether a tape mark would be visible or not on any given shot. But that's not what happened. Based on what Matt O'Hara said, and based on in-progress footage they've shown us where the un-cropped frames have been cleaned, DNR'd, and sharpened (this is not 30th footage...it's from that Season BD making-of video), we know that the framing/cropping was one of the last steps done. So the person doing the tape mark removal wouldn't know if a given shot would be framed higher up, in the middle, or lower down. Short of the framing person literally standing over their shoulder and making these decisions during the cleanup, the only shots the cleaners could confidently say wouldn't have tape marks visible are those where a higher framing is required because the action is taking place in the upper part of the frame. And there are very few of those kinds of shots.
I don't disagree from a practical position as a person, but I do disagree from a logical position as a business. Investing money in a product that you can sell immediately but choose to wait years for is an opportunity waste of said money and something no business would do. If it costs X to fully edit the series (the argument that the Season Sets were fully edited) and X-Y to partially edit the series (the argument that the Season Sets were partly edited), then it would only cost Funi Y to complete the editing in the future (maybe even less if editing software progresses enough in that time that it makes the process quicker/simpler/more efficient). It's not like they even stand to potentially lose sales by not completing the edits, since the final product (Season Sets) isn't changed in any way.
I don't think it's quite as simple as that. You have to take into consideration the actual practicality of this sort of thing. Removing tape marks is a tedious, but brainless task. I'd imagine it's something that a person can settle into a groove for: one hand on the mouse, one hand on the "next frame" button, make a few clicks around the tape mark, go to next frame, a few clicks, next frame...etc. Now imagine that instead of being able to go through the footage as fast as possible, you are told that you have to pay attention to the footage, and expend extra brain power on deciding which shots shouldn't have their tape mark removed. When that extra layer of decision-making is introduced, the person doing this job will go slower and waste more mental energy. Or maybe the framing person is standing over their shoulder and stopping them after every shot to decide on the framing. It's just not practical. Time is money, so if you take longer, then that is more money being lost.
KBABZ wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:34 am
The thing is though, most shots' focal point is in the middle of the frame, including shots where "there's a fight between two characters in the sky".
My problem there though is that while most shots communicate what they need do with a 16:9 crop, the framing of it and the actual frame real estate is still compromised. Watching The Final Chapters after Kai feels like watching the final arc from inside a letterbox because there's no space around the subjects, and the tops and bottoms of characters are frequently clipped off. There's no breathing room at all.

Well yeah, the decision to crop is itself a bad idea for footage that was intended for a 4:3 framing. But the point I was making is that if cropping has to be done, then a center-crop would work best for most shots. So if they wanted to save time, then the common sense thing to do is to not remove tape marks on shots that should be center cropped, which is 95% of shots. However, as we've seen, the Season BD sometimes didn't do the obvious center crop and instead did a lower (and worse) framing on certain shots. If this sort of thing is possible then, from the cleaner's perspective, not even center-focused shots are safe and so tape marks should be removed on even those.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by kyppk » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:52 am

VanceRefrigeration wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:59 am Just as a reminder, the frame-by-frame cleanup was done first, then the cropped framing was decided. They told us this in the Season BD video extra with Matt O'Hara.
I understand that, I even mentioned it earlier.
kyppk wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:55 am Of course it would be impossible to know exactly where the crop would be in a given frame given that the cropping would be one of the last steps, but it's not like you couldn't decide what frames absolutely needed to be fixed and which wouldn't during the cleanup or on the fly.
What I said in my last post was that if the decision to crop the Season Sets was known by the lead editor then they could make decisions on which frames to repair, and since the repair happens before the cropping it doesn't really matter what frames get repaired as you can crop around any damages not fixed.
VanceRefrigeration wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:59 am Unless you're suggesting that the person in charge of framing went through the footage frame-by-frame twice: once before cleanup to mark frames that didn't need tape marks removed, and once after clean-up to actually go through and do the selective cropping...this would probably take more time than just having the cleaner remove all tape marks.
I mean, that's one way of doing it, and I wouldn't put it past Funi to do so. However, If the decision to crop is known before the repairs then the lead editor can determine which frames need to be fixed before work even starts. As an example, the lead editor could have told the team "We aren't going to fix the tape marks on any filler episodes" thus they can work at optimal pace and still skip frames. The actual logic of the choice is essentially unproveable speculation as it could have been completely arbitrary or based on logic, but the end result is the same, some frames fixed and some not. Afterword whoever does the cropping just crops, they have the freedom to crop wherever they want on fixed frames, and are restricted on the ones that aren't.
VanceRefrigeration wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:59 am I don't think it's quite as simple as that. You have to take into consideration the actual practicality of this sort of thing. Removing tape marks is a tedious, but brainless task. I'd imagine it's something that a person can settle into a groove for: one hand on the mouse, one hand on the "next frame" button, make a few clicks around the tape mark, go to next frame, a few clicks, next frame...etc. Now imagine that instead of being able to go through the footage as fast as possible, you are told that you have to pay attention to the footage, and expend extra brain power on deciding which shots shouldn't have their tape mark removed. When that extra layer of decision-making is introduced, the person doing this job will go slower and waste more mental energy. Or maybe the framing person is standing over their shoulder and stopping them after every shot to decide on the framing. It's just not practical. Time is money, so if you take longer, then that is more money being lost.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. If it takes X amount of time to fix a frame now and as a byproduct Y amount of dollars, then it takes X amount of time and Y amount of dollars in the future(possibly less on both if improvements in software and technique can speed the process up).

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by VanceRefrigeration » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:01 pm

kyppk wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:52 am What I said in my last post was that if the decision to crop the Season Sets was known by the lead editor then they could make decisions on which frames to repair, and since the repair happens before the cropping it doesn't really matter what frames get repaired as you can crop around any damages not fixed.
Yes, however knowing about the decision to crop is different from knowing how something will be cropped. According to Matt O'Hara, the decision about how a shot would be cropped/framed was based on what kind of framing would best serve that shot's composition. Though it's possible that he's not being entirely truthful about that and that the actual way they decide is heavily influenced by which shots the cleaners decided to remove tape marks for and which they didn't. But based on that low-framed Goku/Vegeta shot I posted before (and other factors), I get the feeling the decision to crop wasn't known until after the cleanup was done.
I mean, that's one way of doing it, and I wouldn't put it past Funi to do so. However, If the decision to crop is known before the repairs then the lead editor can determine which frames need to be fixed before work even starts. As an example, the lead editor could have told the team "We aren't going to fix the tape marks on any filler episodes" thus they can work at optimal pace and still skip frames. The actual logic of the choice is essentially unproveable speculation as it could have been completely arbitrary or based on logic, but the end result is the same, some frames fixed and some not. Afterword whoever does the cropping just crops, they have the freedom to crop wherever they want on fixed frames, and are restricted on the ones that aren't.
Okay, so let's think about this. Your idea about them pre-deciding entire batches of episodes seems to make sense. It's arbitrary, but I guess it would be a way to both reduce workload and still work quickly. I don't think filler vs. non-filler would drastically reduce the workload since the easily definable "filler arcs" are still a minority of episodes, despite Z as a whole having a lot of filler in general. But maybe they decided something like "Let's clean tape marks on 7 episodes in a row, and then not on the next 3, then 7 episodes in a row, then not on the next 3, etc". However, that still doesn't seem to line up with Matt O'Hara's description of the process. It also doesn't seem to line up with Funimation's product description where they state:
"This new Blu-ray edition has gone through a frame-by-frame restoration process to remove any blemishes, tape marks, and foreign bodies from the film. All three audio tracks have been re-mastered in the interest of noise reduction and superior sound quality, and the colors are bolder and more vibrant. Lastly, a precise shot-by-shot reframing of the entire series was done to create a modern HD widescreen presentation!".
From their description, any tape marks on the film were removed. Now, it's possible that they aren't being entirely truthful, but I get the sense that the decision to crop was a late one, and so it would make sense for the clean-up team to remove all tape marks. After all, it was early 2012 that they suspended the Levels and late 2013 when they released the Season 1 BD, with the months of June-November 2013 being the time where they evaluated the 4:3 vs. 16:9 survey and ultimately discarded it. But if they were doing work on it in 2012 and the first half of 2013, then we don't know if cropping was even a consideration. Given how much they talked up the 4:3 framing of their previous Blu-ray release, it's possible that this was still the plan, but with a less meticulous cleanup of dirt/scratches/blemishes to make the process more efficient. But then some people at corporate looked at sales data of their last 4:3 release vs. their last 16:9 release and decided to crop it in order to try and increase sales. This would make sense given their statement that "any" tape marks on the film were removed. Of course, them being dishonest about that isn't off the table, though I don't personally get that feeling.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by eledoremassis02 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:15 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23yEzf3Czdk
The lack of tape marks here could suggest they were already quite far into the process *yes I know this has been mentioned before* but (and this is only a theory) they could have even been farther than this considering this was when the Saiyan saga was getting released.

My theory, still, is that they were working with the idea of another 4:3 release (maybe not the, would be, 30th set) and decided to screw it in favor of the season Blu-rays, even if the survey came out in favor of 4:3. I don't think the tape marks were removed/fixed level errors specifically for cropping. Heck, even the 30th set is slightly zoomed in compared to these clips of these level sets (and wouldnt be suprised if the whole series was *besides the bigger zoom in the early episodes*) even tho there is no reason for them to be.

Image

The amount of detail that went into the level sets is very much against FUNimations norms. I'd argue that the cropping in the season Blu-rays were still mostly automated except for specific shots, or at the very least, quality control greatly slipped near the end but I don't think tape marks were much of a factor as *at least until trunks* were already taken care of. There seems to have been a lot of effort in restoring the film for the level sets and they were canceled, so I don't see them taking that amound of detail into consideration for the next go around. Even if it were to be another 4:3 set, I wouldnt be surpised if those would have been DNRed and packages similarly to the season blurays.

Maybe Kanzenshuu can do an interveiw with either ex-FUNimation staff or current about their restoration process.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by VanceRefrigeration » Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:33 pm

There already is an interview like that on the Season BD with Matt O'Hara. He mentions that there's a team of 5 engineers working constantly and going through the footage frame by frame to clean it up to remove dirt, scratches, blemishes, etc. The back of the box outright says they removed all that stuff frame by frame, including tape marks. And in their interview with Kanzenshuu, they said they utilized some recent advances in the technology that better enabled them to address things like warping in the film. My personal guess is that all this cleanup work exists on a spectrum ranging from automatic to manual. And although they continued manual work to some degree, the scale tipped more towards automatic than before for the post-Levels episodes. Like instead of intensive dirt cleanup, maybe they put the automatic filter on a lighter setting and only occasionally checked it. Instead of precise framing to ensure the absolute maximum picture area (for the 30th), they just zoomed a little and called it a day (even though some Saiyan saga episodes show more picture area than Levels). This is still good enough to where it could pass off as Levels.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by eledoremassis02 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:32 pm

VanceRefrigeration wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:33 pm There already is an interview like that on the Season BD with Matt O'Hara. He mentions that there's a team of 5 engineers working constantly and going through the footage frame by frame to clean it up to remove dirt, scratches, blemishes, etc. The back of the box outright says they removed all that stuff frame by frame, including tape marks. And in their interview with Kanzenshuu, they said they utilized some recent advances in the technology that better enabled them to address things like warping in the film. My personal guess is that all this cleanup work exists on a spectrum ranging from automatic to manual. And although they continued manual work to some degree, the scale tipped more towards automatic than before for the post-Levels episodes. Like instead of intensive dirt cleanup, maybe they put the automatic filter on a lighter setting and only occasionally checked it. Instead of precise framing to ensure the absolute maximum picture area (for the 30th), they just zoomed a little and called it a day (even though some Saiyan saga episodes show more picture area than Levels). This is still good enough to where it could pass off as Levels.
I'll have to rewatch that again. The Matt O'Hara interveiw extra he just looks awefully uncomfortable and gulps a lot when talking about image quality and cropping, from what I recall lol

Kinda off topic, but the image stabalization I think is actually much worse on the season and 30th than the level sets. A lot of the time it like looking like this
Image .It's very minimual in the level sets, but the grain could be hiding it.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by VanceRefrigeration » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:57 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:32 pm Kinda off topic, but the image stabalization I think is actually much worse on the season and 30th than the level sets. A lot of the time it like looking like this
.It's very minimual in the level sets, but the grain could be hiding it.
Yeah I think the DNR and sharpening are making it look worse on those sets. Though I can't imagine that the actual stabilization process would be worse, since it's just an automatic process anyway.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:13 pm

kyppk wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:19 am The video you provided VanceRefrigeration certainly does help me piece together an interpretation of Funimations thought process.
Gross profit favors the Season Sets over the Level Sets, so Funimation decides to use a similar process in making the 30th, but backlash over "features" of the Season Sets leads Funimation to "bridge" the two. Funimation isn't willing to put more work into a different remastering unless they're sure they can make enough to justify it (so they don't get a Level Set scenario), so they use a kickstarter-esk platform to sell the idea and product limiting the risk to themselves.

Finally we end here, where we have a 30th set many dislike. I imagine we will see the 30th remaster sold as a standard release around the time the Season Sets go out of stock, and future remasterings (if any) will follow a similar kickstarter-esk preorder system.
And the result of "Bridging" the gap between the Level Sets and 2013 Season Sets, is a way to watch DBZ that pleases nobody. People who don't know or don't care about DBZ's proper presentation would probably see going back to 4:3 as a downgrade and would automatically be turned off by the proposition of the 30th Set, even if they didn't see the hefty price tag.

Hardcore fans who DO care about the show's presentation were just left wanting more, as going back to 4:3 was not enough to make up for all the other problems that have plague the visuals and still persist from the Orange Bricks back in 2007. It's 4:3, but it still suffers from DNR smudging, over sharpening, and colors more saturated than an episode of Teletubbies.

Casual consumers and fans are satisfied with their Season Sets, and hardcore fans would be content with sticking with the old DBoxes until their demands are truly met. This middle ground the 30th Set struck was not the way to go.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:30 pm

ArmenianPepsi wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:13 pm
kyppk wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:19 am The video you provided VanceRefrigeration certainly does help me piece together an interpretation of Funimations thought process.
Gross profit favors the Season Sets over the Level Sets, so Funimation decides to use a similar process in making the 30th, but backlash over "features" of the Season Sets leads Funimation to "bridge" the two. Funimation isn't willing to put more work into a different remastering unless they're sure they can make enough to justify it (so they don't get a Level Set scenario), so they use a kickstarter-esk platform to sell the idea and product limiting the risk to themselves.

Finally we end here, where we have a 30th set many dislike. I imagine we will see the 30th remaster sold as a standard release around the time the Season Sets go out of stock, and future remasterings (if any) will follow a similar kickstarter-esk preorder system.
And the result of "Bridging" the gap between the Level Sets and 2013 Season Sets, is a way to watch DBZ that pleases nobody. People who don't know or don't care about DBZ's proper presentation would probably see going back to 4:3 as a downgrade and would automatically be turned off by the proposition of the 30th Set, even if they didn't see the hefty price tag.

Hardcore fans who DO care about the show's presentation were just left wanting more, as going back to 4:3 was not enough to make up for all the other problems that have plague the visuals and still persist from the Orange Bricks back in 2007. It's 4:3, but it still suffers from DNR smudging, over sharpening, and colors more saturated than an episode of Teletubbies.

Casual consumers and fans are satisfied with their Season Sets, and hardcore fans would be content with sticking with the old DBoxes until their demands are truly met. This middle ground the 30th Set struck was not the way to go.
I'm in the former camp on the last one for sure, because the prices that i got the FUNi Dragon Boxes for eBay were absolute steals given the insane auctions most are listed for on there. They have their flaws i'll admit, but in general satisfy my desire to have a consistent 4:3 collection of the series with the lack of a cheaper version on store shelves. FUNi really dropped the ball here with the 30th BD set, and it's a darn shame too because if it weren't for the DNR smear fest and awful over saturation the release would actually look decent.

It's really a travesty that at this point we can't get an affordable 4:3 non DNR'ed version of DBZ on store shelves currently, and the two available releases out there are bottom of the barrel garbage.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:36 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:15 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23yEzf3Czdk
The lack of tape marks here could suggest they were already quite far into the process *yes I know this has been mentioned before* but (and this is only a theory) they could have even been farther than this considering this was when the Saiyan saga was getting released.

My theory, still, is that they were working with the idea of another 4:3 release (maybe not the, would be, 30th set) and decided to screw it in favor of the season Blu-rays, even if the survey came out in favor of 4:3. I don't think the tape marks were removed/fixed level errors specifically for cropping. Heck, even the 30th set is slightly zoomed in compared to these clips of these level sets (and wouldnt be suprised if the whole series was *besides the bigger zoom in the early episodes*) even tho there is no reason for them to be.

Image
Where do these snippets come from? Were they taken from some promo materials for the Level Sets?
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by kyppk » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:28 am

ArmenianPepsi wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:36 pm Where do these snippets come from? Were they taken from some promo materials for the Level Sets?
In the video Vance posted you can see the scenes, https://youtu.be/moAy02J2fd8?t=385 Trunk's part for example. If they had a rip of the feature from the Level Set it was taken from then they'd be able to grab the frames in the best detail possible.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:27 am

kyppk wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:28 am
ArmenianPepsi wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:36 pm Where do these snippets come from? Were they taken from some promo materials for the Level Sets?
In the video Vance posted you can see the scenes, https://youtu.be/moAy02J2fd8?t=385 Trunk's part for example. If they had a rip of the feature from the Level Set it was taken from then they'd be able to grab the frames in the best detail possible.
Oh alright. I should really pay attention more, no idea how I missed it :lol:
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:32 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:30 pm
ArmenianPepsi wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:13 pm
kyppk wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:19 am The video you provided VanceRefrigeration certainly does help me piece together an interpretation of Funimations thought process.
Gross profit favors the Season Sets over the Level Sets, so Funimation decides to use a similar process in making the 30th, but backlash over "features" of the Season Sets leads Funimation to "bridge" the two. Funimation isn't willing to put more work into a different remastering unless they're sure they can make enough to justify it (so they don't get a Level Set scenario), so they use a kickstarter-esk platform to sell the idea and product limiting the risk to themselves.

Finally we end here, where we have a 30th set many dislike. I imagine we will see the 30th remaster sold as a standard release around the time the Season Sets go out of stock, and future remasterings (if any) will follow a similar kickstarter-esk preorder system.
And the result of "Bridging" the gap between the Level Sets and 2013 Season Sets, is a way to watch DBZ that pleases nobody. People who don't know or don't care about DBZ's proper presentation would probably see going back to 4:3 as a downgrade and would automatically be turned off by the proposition of the 30th Set, even if they didn't see the hefty price tag.

Hardcore fans who DO care about the show's presentation were just left wanting more, as going back to 4:3 was not enough to make up for all the other problems that have plague the visuals and still persist from the Orange Bricks back in 2007. It's 4:3, but it still suffers from DNR smudging, over sharpening, and colors more saturated than an episode of Teletubbies.

Casual consumers and fans are satisfied with their Season Sets, and hardcore fans would be content with sticking with the old DBoxes until their demands are truly met. This middle ground the 30th Set struck was not the way to go.
I'm in the former camp on the last one for sure, because the prices that i got the FUNi Dragon Boxes for eBay were absolute steals given the insane auctions most are listed for on there. They have their flaws i'll admit, but in general satisfy my desire to have a consistent 4:3 collection of the series with the lack of a cheaper version on store shelves. FUNi really dropped the ball here with the 30th BD set, and it's a darn shame too because if it weren't for the DNR smear fest and awful over saturation the release would actually look decent.

It's really a travesty that at this point we can't get an affordable 4:3 non DNR'ed version of DBZ on store shelves currently, and the two available releases out there are bottom of the barrel garbage.
Learning about the tragedy of DB on home video is like solving the puzzle cube from Hellraiser.

Also, two releases? Do you mean the Orange Bricks are still in print?
Last edited by ArmenianPepsi on Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:41 am

ArmenianPepsi wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:32 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:30 pm
ArmenianPepsi wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:13 pm
And the result of "Bridging" the gap between the Level Sets and 2013 Season Sets, is a way to watch DBZ that pleases nobody. People who don't know or don't care about DBZ's proper presentation would probably see going back to 4:3 as a downgrade and would automatically be turned off by the proposition of the 30th Set, even if they didn't see the hefty price tag.

Hardcore fans who DO care about the show's presentation were just left wanting more, as going back to 4:3 was not enough to make up for all the other problems that have plague the visuals and still persist from the Orange Bricks back in 2007. It's 4:3, but it still suffers from DNR smudging, over sharpening, and colors more saturated than an episode of Teletubbies.

Casual consumers and fans are satisfied with their Season Sets, and hardcore fans would be content with sticking with the old DBoxes until their demands are truly met. This middle ground the 30th Set struck was not the way to go.
I'm in the former camp on the last one for sure, because the prices that i got the FUNi Dragon Boxes for eBay were absolute steals given the insane auctions most are listed for on there. They have their flaws i'll admit, but in general satisfy my desire to have a consistent 4:3 collection of the series with the lack of a cheaper version on store shelves. FUNi really dropped the ball here with the 30th BD set, and it's a darn shame too because if it weren't for the DNR smear fest and awful over saturation the release would actually look decent.

It's really a travesty that at this point we can't get an affordable 4:3 non DNR'ed version of DBZ on store shelves currently, and the two available releases out there are bottom of the barrel garbage.
Wait, are the Orange Bricks still in print? You gotta be pulling my leg. I thought the blu ray season sets were the only DBZ release on shelves.
Well the OB's are still more or less available online for cheap, i haven't seen them in the DVD sections of most of the stores in my area in quite a while.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by kyppk » Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:43 am

ArmenianPepsi wrote: Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:32 am Wait, are the Orange and Blue Bricks still in print? You gotta be pulling my leg.
I'm actually not sure if they're still in print, I would highly doubt it at this point, but that's the reason I said "Out of stock" as opposed to "Out of Print/Production". They could be not producing any more Season Sets and Orange Bricks but retailers and Funi themselves could still be sitting on a sizable stock of them, and that alone could be enough to influence them to not make a newer version until that stock runs out (So they can capitalize on sales of the remaining stock). Additionally, if they are still in production somehow, Funi wouldn't exactly want a better version cutting into sales of the inferior version while still selling/sitting on a bunch of them.

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