Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:55 pm

HakkaiBills93 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:27 pm
JohnnyCashKami wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:11 am
AB Groupe and FUNimation are the two biggest anime-related companies who brought Dragon Ball to the West, but it seems FUNimation has the upper hand.

AB Groupe is now known as Mediawan Thematics.
For what i know AB Group aka Mediawan is not really into animation like before, most of theirs rights expire and they couldn't renew them (that's why mangas channel air the same things since almost 2 years that's why series like captain tsubasa road to 2002 have been aired from july until january and that moero top stricker air in hd since july continuously restarting after it end) i remember reading something about Toei that took AB group in some kind of disgrace , they even loose db rights few years , that's why group like kaze get db kai rights, they surely had to renegociate to get db super but mainly AB group aka Mediawan is not the big group it used to be, we'll see if something better goes with mediawan but for what i see now i am not confident
Good to know. I quite like Kazé's Dragon Ball releases as they're of high quality and somehow Kazé even got Kai TFC with the Japanese credits for the German release.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:59 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:10 pm
Agreed. I've said it before, but my biggest issue with Kai is how it tries to make the show look newer than it actually is, from the grade to the eyecatches & OP/EDs, DNR, widescreen with TFC, the score and more.
Remember, widescreen wasn't TFC-exclusive; Kai 1.0 had a widescreen version produced, mostly only used for the Japanese market.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by linkdude20002001 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:07 pm

That was only becuz of the then-new Japanese law that all shows on TV HAVE to be in wide-screen. The BD version of the home release was in 4:3. But The Final Chapters is ONLY available in 16:9.
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:10 pm
I'm also pretty sure in japan the show was reffered to as ''anime'' and the movies as ''eiga''(movies)
Old people say テレビ漫画(まんが). Latinize'd, that's "terebi manga", and translates to "TV cartoon". This is what Dragon Ball was referd to as when it was new.

Young people in Japan tend to call only comics by the name of "cartoon" (漫画/manga); the opposite of young English speakers who tend to only call animations by the name of "cartoon".

As such, young people say テレビアニメ, which Latinizes to "terebi anime", and translates to "TV animé".

They differentiate by saying "TV animé", "OVA", and "movie".
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:33 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:59 pm
KBABZ wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:10 pm
Agreed. I've said it before, but my biggest issue with Kai is how it tries to make the show look newer than it actually is, from the grade to the eyecatches & OP/EDs, DNR, widescreen with TFC, the score and more.
Remember, widescreen wasn't TFC-exclusive; Kai 1.0 had a widescreen version produced, mostly only used for the Japanese market.
Yeah, pretty much everywhere else including here in the States aside from a few other countries got Kai 1.0 exclusively in the original 4:3 fullscreen on both DVD and Blu-ray.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Vegard Aune » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:08 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:38 pm
They used the Dead Zone opening https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChAk8wD44aw. You can tell by the Eirin code on the bottom right when the Z logo pops up. https://www.kanzenshuu.com/movie/dbz-01/

I just checked the season bluray https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzZ8s8ka_Eo and it seems they used the anime one. So I'm guessing it's a FUNi mistake?

Do the Openings match the right episodes for the season blurays?? Cause I know that was an issue on the singles
I'd say they probably just swapped out the logo shot and/or edited out the Eirin code, really... Because that is literally the only thing that separates the opening seen in Movie 1 from the one used in the first 21 episodes of the show. Hopefully, if this new set will indeed be using the Level footage (in which case I, for one, will be content), they'll at least retain this one fix.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Scsigs » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:06 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:19 pm
Funnily enough I DO consider Avatar to be anime because of the art direction and storytelling qualities. To me, anime is a genre under the broader genre of cartoons (which include West, Far East and Eastern Europe, among others). That also doesn't get into things like Chinese and Korean animation apparently not being anime, which gets interesting when you think about series though of as Western but animated in Asia, like G1 Transformers (contrasting with the Energon trio, which are more obviously anime).

ANYWAY, people call it "the anime" because most people think of anime as being a TV show of some sort (hence the distinction between anime, OVA and movie, which is a bit arbitrary for sure, especially between OVA and movie).
It's heavily influenced by anime, but a lot of the storytelling & writing isn't native to Japan even at the time it was produced, since serialized storytelling mixed with standalone episodes was done for years before in adult media. Avatar was just one of the first western kids shows to embrace it like they did. To me, anime falls under several criteria: written, animated, & produced in Japan first, which includes co-productions with other countries & farming out to other animation studios in other countries to help with the production. There's a distinction, though. I doubt anyone's gonna call Batman: TAS an anime show because it was animated in Japan. Mostly because it doesn't have an anime style. But, on the flipside, something like Bakugan: Battle Planet COULD because it's a co-production & features a distinct anime art style. Avatar was not written or produced in any way in Japan. It had American writers & a Korean animation studio producing it. Plus, it has a distinctly Western attitude about it when it came to the finer details of its writing. It just has a distinctly Eastern influence about it. It's kind of like Cowboy Bebop. I consider it the flipside of Avatar because it's a distinctly Eastern show with a TON of Western influences in its writing.
Still, my point was that I hear people conflate "anime" with "TV series," even though it more covers the vast majority of animated material from Japan. It's annoying when people who aren't into this stuff do it, it's even more annoying when people who ARE do it. Like, I think even MasakoX does it & he should know better by now. I mean, the word anime is derived from, "animation" covers all animated works, so logically, anime should follow suit, but it's not for some reason with some people. It also just gets confusing when you think about it.
linkdude20002001 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:09 pm
It’s not even “an anime”, it’s “a cartoon”. We don’t go calling animated shows and movies from OTHER countries by weird names. The Japanese would call even SpongeBob SquarePants “an anime”. Just like how they don’t use the word “manga” they way English speakers think they do. “Manga” actually means “cartoon”, and can technically refer to both comics and animations.

Also, “Code Lyoko is not an anime!” is something I’ve heard a lot growing up, but it is. “Anime” is originally a French word adopted by the Japanese.
Except that there's different cultural connotations behind the uses of "anime" on the opposite sides of the Pacific. "Anime" in Japan generally refers to all animation regardless of origin because it's a shortened loanword Japan adopted from English. However, in the West, it's used to distinguish between Eastern (from Japan) & Western animation, hence my use of "anime-influenced" when talking about Avatar. It's also a pretty snappy one at that. I mean, would YOU wanna go back to "Japanamation"? There's not quite the same ring to it, y'know? And, yes, Code Lyoko isn't an anime. The art style was just influenced from it, same as Avatar.
VegettoEX wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:15 pm
For Dragon Ball specifically, "The anime" vs. "The movies" is one of those word-cutting, implied-meaning kind of quick differentiating descriptions a la "The Ocean Dub" where everyone clearly knows what they're talking about and what they mean (until someone demonstrates that they don't). Don't really see it as anything to even discuss or point out.
True, but at least the distinction of dubs is understandable to do it between the companies that did them or the casts. "FUNimation dub," "Ocean dub," "Westwood dub," "AB Groupe dub," "Big Green dub" (and AB Groupe-produced dub), & "Speedy dub" are all distinctions & everyone uses them to distinguish between the casts &/or countries. "TV series" & "films/movies" distinguish between media in most the same way as those.
Robo4900 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:59 pm
Remember, widescreen wasn't TFC-exclusive; Kai 1.0 had a widescreen version produced, mostly only used for the Japanese market.
The main difference being that 1.0 had a 4:3 version produced & saved because Q-Tec understood that preserving the original intentions of the animators from the 80s & 90s was something to do. Toei couldn't have cared less. I bet FUNi only got the 4:3 masters because either it's what Toei gave them, or, when they found out, they jumped at the chance to make up for their shitty Orange Brick "remaster" of Z, especially since the Dragon Boxes started coming out before the home releases of Kai over here.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Mr.Poot » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:52 pm

Don't worry guys it'll be 4:3 they'll just crop the Orange Bricks to 4:3.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:01 pm

Mr.Poot wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:52 pm
Don't worry guys it'll be 4:3 they'll just crop the Orange Bricks to 4:3.
Still, even if the OB's were 4:3 that still wouldn't change the fact that they are god awful DNR smear fests with some of the worst brightness and contrast levels that i have ever seen.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ect5150 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:20 pm


Don't know about you guys, but if I could get the entire series like that, I'd be happy. I would/am hoping for the original intros/NEP/outros (with japanese text all over), but that might be asking for a lot.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:23 pm

ect5150 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:20 pm

Don't know about you guys, but if I could get the entire series like that, I'd be happy. I would/am hoping for the original intros/NEP/outros (with japanese text all over), but that might be asking for a lot.
Damn those Level shots all look pretty nice, aside from the crushed blacks like in the first image of Yamcha charging the Sokidan.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Scsigs » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:01 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:23 pm
ect5150 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:20 pm
Don't know about you guys, but if I could get the entire series like that, I'd be happy. I would/am hoping for the original intros/NEP/outros (with japanese text all over), but that might be asking for a lot.
Damn those Level shots all look pretty nice, aside from the crushed blacks like in the first image of Yamcha charging the Sokidan.
What exactly are "crushed blacks"?
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Kuwabara » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:24 am

Scsigs wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:01 am
What exactly are "crushed blacks"?
Details in dark areas that are lost, usually due to high contrast.
This is the episode of when Gokuh enrages himself after Freezer talk shit about Kuririn

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:42 am

Scsigs wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:06 pm
It's heavily influenced by anime, but a lot of the storytelling & writing isn't native to Japan even at the time it was produced, since serialized storytelling mixed with standalone episodes was done for years before in adult media. Avatar was just one of the first western kids shows to embrace it like they did. To me, anime falls under several criteria: written, animated, & produced in Japan first, which includes co-productions with other countries & farming out to other animation studios in other countries to help with the production. There's a distinction, though. I doubt anyone's gonna call Batman: TAS an anime show because it was animated in Japan. Mostly because it doesn't have an anime style. But, on the flipside, something like Bakugan: Battle Planet COULD because it's a co-production & features a distinct anime art style. Avatar was not written or produced in any way in Japan. It had American writers & a Korean animation studio producing it. Plus, it has a distinctly Western attitude about it when it came to the finer details of its writing. It just has a distinctly Eastern influence about it. It's kind of like Cowboy Bebop. I consider it the flipside of Avatar because it's a distinctly Eastern show with a TON of Western influences in its writing.
Still, my point was that I hear people conflate "anime" with "TV series," even though it more covers the vast majority of animated material from Japan. It's annoying when people who aren't into this stuff do it, it's even more annoying when people who ARE do it. Like, I think even MasakoX does it & he should know better by now. I mean, the word anime is derived from, "animation" covers all animated works, so logically, anime should follow suit, but it's not for some reason with some people. It also just gets confusing when you think about it.
This for me is why I consider anime to be an art style rather than a definition of where a cartoon comes from.
Scsigs wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:01 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:23 pm
Damn those Level shots all look pretty nice, aside from the crushed blacks like in the first image of Yamcha charging the Sokidan.
What exactly are "crushed blacks"?
Sort of, but not quite! Crushing the blacks is a film industry term referring to colour grading. It's when you darken the dark parts of the image to be actual black, not specifically referring to detail lost when you do so. Here's an example:

Image

This is incredibly common in films. However in older works, this can result in a loss of detail, as seen in this shot from Star Wars:

Image

See how when you make the actual black of space black, you lose pretty much ALL the stars? That's the challenge in restoring old films like that. With Dragon Ball, it means you lose a lot of detail in the dark areas of the background paintings. Combine this with adding brightness gain to make the whites pure white rather than "paper white", and this is where you get that severe, unnatural contrast from the Orange Bricks:

Image

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:52 am

ect5150 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:20 pm

Don't know about you guys, but if I could get the entire series like that, I'd be happy. I would/am hoping for the original intros/NEP/outros (with japanese text all over), but that might be asking for a lot.
Here's a little comparison between the same shot from both the Dragon Box and Level BD's as an example of the blacks' contrast and detail loss that crop up from time to time in the first set. Although as i understand that issue did indeed lessen considerably by the time they got to the 1.2 set.

Dragon Box:

Image

Level set:

Image


Basically, the most noticeable thing in regards to the sometimes crushed black levels early on in the Level sets were shots like this especially with Yamcha's gi being dialed out out to a greater degree by the darker contrast. Whereas on the Dragon Box the contrast and blackness levels aren't quite as pronounced as on the former so things like his shirt are generally more visible.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:22 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:00 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:52 am
Basically, the most noticeable thing in regards to the sometimes crushed black levels early on in the Level sets were shots like this especially with Yamcha's gi being dialed out out by the blackness.
I was gonna say that you lose the detail from the hole in the hill behind him.

...wait, is that the Washington Monument?? Is this from a wuxia adaptation of The Division 2???

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:06 am

KBABZ wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:00 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:52 am
Basically, the most noticeable thing in regards to the sometimes crushed black levels early on in the Level sets were shots like this especially with Yamcha's gi being dialed out out by the blackness.
I was gonna say that you lose the detail from the hole in the hill behind him.

...wait, is that the Washington Monument?? Is this from a wuxia adaptation of The Division 2???
It's pretty easy to tell between the two on the Dragon Box screen cap that Yamcha's shirt and some of the other parts of the image are no doubt more visible overall than the Level set, mostly with having a better degree of brightness and contrast. Though on the latter that appeared to my eyes to be the most noticable area with detail lost due to the higher black level. It most likely has to do with the nature of the third generation film they were using for the high definition remaster.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:34 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by funrush » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:13 am

Is the coloring on Yamcha's gi there a result of the remastering process, or is that at all caused by the third-generation source material? It seems like dull shadows are an issue with the Levels in general.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Kuwabara » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:16 am

KBABZ wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:42 am
Thank you for the much more lengthy explanation! I really only meant to answer Scsigs' question in reference to crushed blacks in the Level sets, which I don't think were necessarily intentional and more a consequence of the prints used. I'm aware that it's also a stylistic technique often used intentionally in film and photography.
funrush wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:13 am
Is the coloring on Yamcha's gi there a result of the remastering process, or is that at all caused by the third-generation source material?
I think it has more to with the latter than the former. I would say that the color grading is generally pretty stellar otherwise.
Last edited by Kuwabara on Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:19 am

funrush wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:13 am
Is the coloring on Yamcha's gi there a result of the remastering process, or is that at all caused by the third-generation source material? It seems like dull shadows are an issue with the Levels in general.
I'm leaning towards it being due to the inherent nature of the raw third generation film that FUNimation has, because it definitely seems to have a generally duller and less vibrant color grade than on the Dragon Box. I will say though that the Levels are certainly more sharper looking and no doubt much more grainier for sure. Again, i would chalk it up to the multi generational source that FUNi has which is several generations of quality removed from the original first generation 16mm prints which the Dragon Box masters were sourced and restored from. That also leads to having several more generations of grain and dirt on the image itself when compared to Toei's good quality masters.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:56 am

Kuwabara wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:16 am
KBABZ wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:42 am
Thank you for the much more lengthy explanation! I really only meant to answer Scsigs' question in reference to crushed blacks in the Level sets, which I don't think were necessarily intentional and more a consequence of the prints used. I'm aware that it's also a stylistic technique often used intentionally in film and photography.
No problem! Film courses coming in handy there.

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