Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Gdugz » Fri May 15, 2020 5:02 am

KBABZ wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:52 am
ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:00 am
Yeah and it's such a simple fix too. Something somebody with 20 minutes of experience with Vegas could do.
I'm somebody with 20 minutes of experience with Vegas! : D
a lot of the problems with this set would have been simple fixes :lol:

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Metalwario64 » Fri May 15, 2020 5:18 am

Zestanor wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:22 pm
Gdugz wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 6:35 pm
I've been watching through it aswell and I don't think the quality declines although I'm just at the end of the cell fight right now. There was however a flashback in the last disc I watched that had footage of gohans previous fights and it looked awful.

Like I've been overlooking a lot of the problems of this set but the footage in these flashbacks was awful.
Flashbacks are gonna be at least a generation worse. It never seems to cross the minds of the "remaster" teams to splice in the original footage for flashbacks. It's the exact same photography; one's just worse looking.
At least, when it comes to FUNimation, flashbacks with original Dragon Ball footage would be impossible to splice into an HD Z remaster because they don't have film masters for that series.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Fri May 15, 2020 12:12 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 5:18 am
Zestanor wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:22 pm
Gdugz wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 6:35 pm
I've been watching through it aswell and I don't think the quality declines although I'm just at the end of the cell fight right now. There was however a flashback in the last disc I watched that had footage of gohans previous fights and it looked awful.

Like I've been overlooking a lot of the problems of this set but the footage in these flashbacks was awful.
Flashbacks are gonna be at least a generation worse. It never seems to cross the minds of the "remaster" teams to splice in the original footage for flashbacks. It's the exact same photography; one's just worse looking.
At least, when it comes to FUNimation, flashbacks with original Dragon Ball footage would be impossible to splice into an HD Z remaster because they don't have film masters for that series.
Well, they could solve that, as well as their problem of not being able to remaster DB or GT, all at once if they were willing to actually give the fans something good for once...

Though they'd probably fuck it up again, at least as badly as they've fucked up the 30th anniversary set.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Codarik » Sat May 16, 2020 4:49 am

JEFFMAN219 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:06 pm
PacificOceanDub wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 3:12 pm
Just finished watching thru this entire set the other day. I don’t know if anyone else felt this way, but I thought the earlier part of the series looked really great. Somewhere in the middle of the Cell arc, I felt like the quality of the remaster declined heavily. It really made me miss the forgiving nature of standard definition. Either way, onward to GT!
Just wondering did Funimation fix the issue with Tiens missing line on Season 3 for this 30th anniversary set?

Here's a link to the video clip below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b0h_TePk_w
This was talked about a long time ago in this thread and iirc, it wasn't fixed. They probably don't even know about that issue.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat May 16, 2020 5:39 am

Codarik wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 4:49 am
JEFFMAN219 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:06 pm
PacificOceanDub wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 3:12 pm
Just finished watching thru this entire set the other day. I don’t know if anyone else felt this way, but I thought the earlier part of the series looked really great. Somewhere in the middle of the Cell arc, I felt like the quality of the remaster declined heavily. It really made me miss the forgiving nature of standard definition. Either way, onward to GT!
Just wondering did Funimation fix the issue with Tiens missing line on Season 3 for this 30th anniversary set?

Here's a link to the video clip below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b0h_TePk_w
This was talked about a long time ago in this thread and iirc, it wasn't fixed. They probably don't even know about that issue.
It's very likely they just hadn't realized it back then, something just happened there along the way in the course of the "remastering" of the Orange Bricks that resulted in the line being deleted and the thought never crossed their minds as the scene is so brief that i doubt most people would even notice it although apparently this cut is only in the remastered release from 2007 onward so the old VHS and DVD single versions will still have Tien's dialogue intact.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4

2.) Collect rest of manga

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Metalwario64 » Sat May 16, 2020 9:25 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:39 am
Codarik wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 4:49 am
JEFFMAN219 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:06 pm


Just wondering did Funimation fix the issue with Tiens missing line on Season 3 for this 30th anniversary set?

Here's a link to the video clip below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b0h_TePk_w
This was talked about a long time ago in this thread and iirc, it wasn't fixed. They probably don't even know about that issue.
It's very likely they just hadn't realized it back then, something just happened there along the way in the course of the "remastering" of the Orange Bricks that resulted in the line being deleted and the thought never crossed their minds as the scene is so brief that i doubt most people would even notice it although apparently this cut is only in the remastered release from 2007 onward so the old VHS and DVD single versions will still have Tien's dialogue intact.
This post seems to confirm that the line was on the Orange Brick (though I can't personally confirm at the moment)

I know that the Season BDs had at least one missing title card that wasn't a problem in the DVDs, which just showed how little effort was put into them.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat May 16, 2020 9:39 am

Metalwario64 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 9:25 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:39 am
Codarik wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 4:49 am

This was talked about a long time ago in this thread and iirc, it wasn't fixed. They probably don't even know about that issue.
It's very likely they just hadn't realized it back then, something just happened there along the way in the course of the "remastering" of the Orange Bricks that resulted in the line being deleted and the thought never crossed their minds as the scene is so brief that i doubt most people would even notice it although apparently this cut is only in the remastered release from 2007 onward so the old VHS and DVD single versions will still have Tien's dialogue intact.
This post seems to confirm that the line was on the Orange Brick (though I can't personally confirm at the moment)

I know that the Season BDs had at least one missing title card that wasn't a problem in the DVDs, which just showed how little effort was put into them.
Oh, then it seems this error started with the Season Blu-rays and carried over to the 30th set. So the OB's and Dragon Box would thus still have it as well.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by JEFFMAN219 » Sat May 16, 2020 11:10 am

Codarik wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 4:49 am
JEFFMAN219 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:06 pm
PacificOceanDub wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 3:12 pm
Just finished watching thru this entire set the other day. I don’t know if anyone else felt this way, but I thought the earlier part of the series looked really great. Somewhere in the middle of the Cell arc, I felt like the quality of the remaster declined heavily. It really made me miss the forgiving nature of standard definition. Either way, onward to GT!
Just wondering did Funimation fix the issue with Tiens missing line on Season 3 for this 30th anniversary set?

Here's a link to the video clip below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b0h_TePk_w
This was talked about a long time ago in this thread and iirc, it wasn't fixed. They probably don't even know about that issue.
Oh wow smh. What about the missing episode title card for episode 164 Ghosts from Tomorrow? Did FUNimation at least fix that?

I also remember another missing line occuring on Season during the Garlic Jr saga as well.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by kei17 » Sat May 16, 2020 7:22 pm

Zestanor wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 10:22 pm
Gdugz wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 6:35 pm
I've been watching through it aswell and I don't think the quality declines although I'm just at the end of the cell fight right now. There was however a flashback in the last disc I watched that had footage of gohans previous fights and it looked awful.

Like I've been overlooking a lot of the problems of this set but the footage in these flashbacks was awful.
Flashbacks are gonna be at least a generation worse. It never seems to cross the minds of the "remaster" teams to splice in the original footage for flashbacks. It's the exact same photography; one's just worse looking.
That is an easy way to improve the image quality, but I'm against that idea because even the lower quality in such flashbacks is part of the original productions and it shows how film editing worked at the time. It'd not really be an issue when it comes to an already sloppy release like this, though.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Zestanor » Sun May 17, 2020 7:32 am

kei17 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:22 pm
That is an easy way to improve the image quality, but I'm against that idea because even the lower quality in such flashbacks is part of the original productions and it shows how film editing worked at the time. It'd not really be an issue when it comes to an already sloppy release like this, though.
I understand that point of view but by the same logic they shouldn’t edit out the tape marks at the bottom of every new scene. It’s quaint to see those on a fansub (or a broadcast VHS recording) or something, and don’t get me wrong those have their place, but a theoretical HD release is the place for “wow” graphics, not a historical record.

Some of the flashbacks are really trash looking, and it’s because they cut corners and their sources sucked. The NEPs never look that bad, even if they are necessarily a generation worse.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by kei17 » Sun May 17, 2020 12:54 pm

Zestanor wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:32 am
kei17 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:22 pm
That is an easy way to improve the image quality, but I'm against that idea because even the lower quality in such flashbacks is part of the original productions and it shows how film editing worked at the time. It'd not really be an issue when it comes to an already sloppy release like this, though.
I understand that point of view but by the same logic they shouldn’t edit out the tape marks at the bottom of every new scene.
That's somewhat different than what I refferred to because replacing an entire image is obviously more extensive and drastic than patching up small parts of footage. In my opinion, in film remastering processes, you should not replace entire things even if it leads to improved quality, and all touch-ups must fall into improvements of what's actually recorded in the original media.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Zestanor » Sun May 17, 2020 4:31 pm

kei17 wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 12:54 pm
That's somewhat different than what I refferred to because replacing an entire image is obviously more extensive and drastic than patching up small parts of footage. In my opinion, in film remastering processes, you should not replace entire things even if it leads to improved quality, and all touch-ups must fall into improvements of what's actually recorded in the original media.
That’s a good rule of thumb but I don’t think it excludes what I’m saying. What counts as the original media? The 30 minute moment in history when it aired in Japan thirty years ago on a Saturday (?) night? The analog tapes sent to Fuji TV? Sixth generation film masters? The original film masters, some of which contain poor quality generational masters stitched in? The painted cels? The abstract thoughts contained in the directors’ heads?

Of these options, we are forced to choose the film masters because it is the highest quality option that is feasible. If it were possible to reanimate the show with perfect fidelity to the original, and then photograph it in the highest resolution possible, I think we’d favor that, but that’s impossible.

I might agree with you but I recognize this is a principled subject and I’d like your take on it.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Sun May 17, 2020 8:01 pm

To use another comparison to aid kei's argument, often recaps will have different vocal takes on the same dialogue as before (I know Funi did this sometimes), as well as contain the occasional animation error like Super Saiyan Goku having black hair that one time. They're old but they're considered new takes on the same material.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Zestanor » Sun May 17, 2020 8:56 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 8:01 pm
To use another comparison to aid kei's argument, often recaps will have different vocal takes on the same dialogue as before (I know Funi did this sometimes), as well as contain the occasional animation error like Super Saiyan Goku having black hair that one time. They're old but they're considered new takes on the same material.
That is not the same, because I was only talking about flashbacks, which were always sourced from finalized 16mm photographed animation. The same hands at the same moment in time were responsible for the animation in the flashbacks, the same pieces of celluloid, the same camera. The only difference is they made a very sloppy copy to splice in to a new episode.

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Scsigs » Sun May 17, 2020 9:15 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 8:01 pm
To use another comparison to aid kei's argument, often recaps will have different vocal takes on the same dialogue as before (I know Funi did this sometimes), as well as contain the occasional animation error like Super Saiyan Goku having black hair that one time. They're old but they're considered new takes on the same material.
Not exactly in recaps, but I know 4Kids would have their actors dub over footage they'd already dubbed for shows like Yugioh during flashbacks.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Mon May 18, 2020 2:45 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 9:54 am
10gigtriforce wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 9:50 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 8:56 am


Yeah, it honestly surprises me that FUNi hasn't bought proper film prints or HD copies from Toei as of now. It's kind of odd how they've got film masters for DBZ but not the other two series because you would think at some point they would want something of higher quality across the board than those old digibeta tapes that are sourced from multi gen copies which obviously don't look as good as the original film prints.
it shouldnt, toei hasnt done it ether while they did do anhd demaster of dbz in the form of kai. db and gt just dont make as much money anywhere as dbz does so guess what gets attention from the likes of toei and funi?
....Basically, Z has hogged all the glory for itself pretty much everywhere (when it's the latter part of one whole story) while the others are sitting at the sidelines being more or less ignored but only every so often.
Such a tragic situation but it's true. Sad to know that there will be some people who will miss out on the pure joyride the original DB has to offer just because it's been more or less wiped from the consciousness of western audiences. :( :(
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by KBABZ » Mon May 18, 2020 7:48 am

ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:45 am
Such a tragic situation but it's true. Sad to know that there will be some people who will miss out on the pure joyride the original DB has to offer just because it's been more or less wiped from the consciousness of western audiences. :( :(
You can't wipe something that never gained a foothold in the first place!

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Robo4900 » Mon May 18, 2020 12:03 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 7:48 am
ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:45 am
Such a tragic situation but it's true. Sad to know that there will be some people who will miss out on the pure joyride the original DB has to offer just because it's been more or less wiped from the consciousness of western audiences. :( :(
You can't wipe something that never gained a foothold in the first place!
More accurately, you can't wipe out something that was deliberately sabotaged to not gain a foothold in the first place...

We know that Gen Fukunaga wanted to skip to Z. I'm pretty sure we know that Z's initial ratings weren't much better than DB's. We know DB's initial syndication deal wasn't great. We know there was no reason for Funi to skip to Z, rather than just moving on to DB 14-28, when they pitched to Saban...
And we know that DB was kind of shat out in the middle of the Cell arc with a deeply confused dubbing approach, and not marketed properly.
And we know that Funi were completely willing to do some weird skulduggery to get their way (firing the entire cast of professionals in favour of amateur nobodies to save a few bucks, for instance).

Funi never wanted OG DB, and to this day, they still don't care about it.
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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon May 18, 2020 12:18 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 12:03 pm
KBABZ wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 7:48 am
ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:45 am
Such a tragic situation but it's true. Sad to know that there will be some people who will miss out on the pure joyride the original DB has to offer just because it's been more or less wiped from the consciousness of western audiences. :( :(
You can't wipe something that never gained a foothold in the first place!
More accurately, you can't wipe out something that was deliberately sabotaged to not gain a foothold in the first place...

We know that Gen Fukunaga wanted to skip to Z. I'm pretty sure we know that Z's initial ratings weren't much better than DB's. We know DB's initial syndication deal wasn't great. We know there was no reason for Funi to skip to Z, rather than just moving on to DB 14-28, when they pitched to Saban...
And we know that DB was kind of shat out in the middle of the Cell arc with a deeply confused dubbing approach, and not marketed properly.
And we know that Funi were completely willing to do some weird skulduggery to get their way (firing the entire cast of professionals in favour of amateur nobodies to save a few bucks, for instance).

Funi never wanted OG DB, and to this day, they still don't care about it.
That's the really unfortunate tragedy of this thing, as the original series wasn't given the chance it deserved here back in the day because the powers that be at FUNi at the time (Fukunaga, Watson.etc) put all their chips into Z and went from there. It hasn't improved even with the changing of the guard there that has happened over the years as both DB and GT get shafted hence their under representation not only in terms of home releases but also in video games and other media, again because DBZ is prioritized due to having been the part of the franchise that really took off here which legit makes me sad because there are so many good parts in the original series, and yet it too often gets written off as the "lesser comedic prequel" when if you actually watch the show itself that isn't even remotely close to true at all. I'll bet you that if they could've skipped right past DB and straight to Z back in 1995 they wouldn't have hesitated to do so, and even when it didn't happen that way they still mishandled the series even after going back to it a few years later.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if some funny business went down within FUNimation at the time in regard to the original series, because they clearly had all their investment and resources fully put into Z as it's obvious considering how the others have been sidelined in pretty much every facet.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Funimations 30th anniversary collectible home video release

Post by Zestanor » Mon May 18, 2020 1:04 pm

Remember though that DBZ was favored by Funimation because the Z anime was still hot, whereas OG DB was retired almost a decade earlier. Toei treats them as two different anime, and given the choice between licensing an 80s anime and a 90s anime, should we be surprised that 90s Funimation greatly favored the 90s anime? It all seems old to us now, but at the time they weren't treating it like a legacy product: it was new and hot. OG DB was not.

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