History of Sonic and Dragon Ball Z

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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Apollo Fungus
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Re: History of Sonic and Dragon Ball Z

Post by Apollo Fungus » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:35 pm

ABED wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:33 am
Death Note's problem is the original Death Note isn't a good story. Sonic's problem is that it's a video game with a VERY thin storyline. I think the only way it could possibly work is if they got Lord and Miller to write and direct.
I don't think the quality of the source material, or in this case the quality/lack of story, automatically suggests that it can't make for a good film. You can still attempt to tell a compelling, enjoyable narrative even if you don't have a lot to work with (a casual reminder that the Shawshank Redemption is based on a short story, and is considered a classic). Heck, even if you don't wanna focus on the narrative and want to go for doing what the games do, you can still make a well-crafted film that echoes the series' appeal through a new medium.

A pretty well-known example of the latter would be the Street Fighter II animated movie produced in 1994 by Group TAC and directed Gisaburō Sugii (the same man who also directed Night of the Galactic Railroad, believe it or not). Street Fighter is not typically known for its plot, but the movie gets away with it by instead focusing on having a variety of well-made, enjoyable fights that each have their own unique vibe and pacing (Chun-Li fighting against Vega's a classic, even amongst people who dislike the film). It doesn't have much of a story beyond whatever's needed to get certain characters to fight each other, but it doesn't really matter when it pulls off the fight scenes as well as it does.

And I think it's absolutely possible for the same to apply to Sonic. No, the games themselves have never cared too much for plot (or a consistent universe and characters, which is something I'd argue is a good thing but that's a whole other topic), but that doesn't mean a film based on them has to rubbish. It can tell a good story that hits all the right beats and accomplishes what the developers would never set out to do; it can make a shallow but well-made action film that nails what fans love about the series; it can do both, or it can do something else altogether to make a good film.

While it can be difficult to make a good Sonic film, that's only because it's difficult in general to make a good film about anything - especially when it's adapting a work from one medium to another. But I know it can be done, and the issue is that the approach being taken with this film; the live-action/animation hybrid, the hyper-realistic CGI, the return to the "Sonic in a world of humans" nonsense that's been divisive at best and loathed at worse; is one that will more than likely result in a mediocre nothing of a movie that will be forgotten in years' time. I'd rather we get a good movie that shows what people love about Sonic, and is at the very least a well-made film that can appeal to everyone just through pure filmmaking craft (I'm not a superhero nut, but at least Into The Spider-Verse understood that and make a technically brilliant film).

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Re: History of Sonic and Dragon Ball Z

Post by ABED » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:56 pm

Bad example with The Shawshank Redemption. The short story was shorter than the movie, but a good story. The movie expanded upon something already good. The only thing interesting about Death Note is the premise. I've only seen the anime and it's not good at all. I refuse to watch the Netflix movie. Shawshenk didn't have much to work with wordcount wise, but Death Note didn't have much to work with quality wise.

I'll give you the Street Fighter movie, but that's it. It's far easier to come up with a story about guys fighting each other than a Hedgehog that runs really fast and collects rings. What is it that people love from the medium of video games? Fundamentally it's gameplay, not story. Going from one medium to another is difficult, but this isn't going from comics or TV to film, this is going from a medium that isn't about storytelling to one that is.
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Re: History of Sonic and Dragon Ball Z

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:24 pm

ABED wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:56 pm
Bad example with The Shawshank Redemption. The short story was shorter than the movie, but a good story. The movie expanded upon something already good. The only thing interesting about Death Note is the premise. I've only seen the anime and it's not good at all. I refuse to watch the Netflix movie. Shawshenk didn't have much to work with wordcount wise, but Death Note didn't have much to work with quality wise.

I'll give you the Street Fighter movie, but that's it. It's far easier to come up with a story about guys fighting each other than a Hedgehog that runs really fast and collects rings. What is it that people love from the medium of video games? Fundamentally it's gameplay, not story. Going from one medium to another is difficult, but this isn't going from comics or TV to film, this is going from a medium that isn't about storytelling to one that is.
I massively agree with this.
AnimeMaakuo wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:38 am
Enjoy unboxing crap :thumbup:. Your continued support for crap will give us more crap for many years to come! :clap:.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: History of Sonic and Dragon Ball Z

Post by Apollo Fungus » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:48 pm

ABED wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:56 pm
I'll give you the Street Fighter movie, but that's it. It's far easier to come up with a story about guys fighting each other than a Hedgehog that runs really fast and collects rings. What is it that people love from the medium of video games? Fundamentally it's gameplay, not story. Going from one medium to another is difficult, but this isn't going from comics or TV to film, this is going from a medium that isn't about storytelling to one that is.
It all depends on the approach, I feel. You say that Sonic's about a speedy hedgehog who grabs rings, but it's also about a speedy hedgehog stopping an evil scientist from causing a ruckus with whatever dastardly invention he's created this week. Even with the most basic knowledge of the series on hand, I think it can be very easy to craft a simple narrative out the series' premise: "Dr Eggman's trying to collect the Chaos Emeralds. Sonic and Tails (and Knuckles if you wanna throw him in) head out to stop him". From there, you can come up with small character arcs and action set-pieces that work together to create a fun little film.

It's possible the end result won't be enough to sustain a 90-120 minute movie, but in that case, why not make it a shorter film? I feel like most US adaptations have to add extraneous nonsense because they have to hit a specific runtime, and it's also been somewhat strange to me that they don't just make the films shorter. Take something like DOOM, a series that's pretty infamous for having no plot and often rejecting the idea of a plot both within the games and in the production of the games. The 2005 film ripped every character archetype and plot twist from the previous 25-30 years of sci-fi horror, and that was more than likely because they didn't know how to make a 2-hour film full of nothing but action that wouldn't bore the audience after a while.

But instead of doing that, why not just make a much shorter film? That way, you can fill it full of crazy gunfights and action set-pieces without the worry of audience burnout. You could do something like that for a Sonic movie: just a simple hour-long affair (maybe 70-odd minutes if you've got a really good idea) that manages to express the speedy thrills, surreal landscapes, and other elements most people like about the series in a concise manner.

There are countless ways to adapt a game from one medium to another, but it just takes thinking outside the very narrow mainstream Hollywood standards to see how it can be done.

(Also, this isn't the place for it, but I highly disagree that gaming isn't a medium for storytelling. It might not always be what the creators have on their mind when making a game, but even games back in the 80s were telling stories in unique ways that no other medium can quite replicate.)

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Re: History of Sonic and Dragon Ball Z

Post by ABED » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:58 pm

But it's not another storytelling medium like novels, short stories, film, or theater. I didn't say games can't have or don't have storytelling, but that's not it's primary function. It's not the draw of video games.
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Re: History of Sonic and Dragon Ball Z

Post by Desassina » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:36 am

Sonic did not just take from Dragon Ball, but from Star Wars as well, with the Death Egg in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. What? Are we not supposed to compare it to that franchise now? It's ridiculous to say that both have history together, when Star Wars was made in the late 70s and early 80s, but I've seen people argue that Michael Jackson was a composer too...

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Re: History of Sonic and Dragon Ball Z

Post by The Patrolman » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:03 am

Desassina wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:36 am
Sonic did not just take from Dragon Ball, but from Star Wars as well, with the Death Egg in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. What? Are we not supposed to compare it to that franchise now? It's ridiculous to say that both have history together, when Star Wars was made in the late 70s and early 80s, but I've seen people argue that Michael Jackson was a composer too...
Technically the Death Egg was in Sonic 2 and MJ was the composer for Sonic 3 & Knuckles but went uncredited because he didn't like the Genesis's sound chip
The Last Jedi is a terrible movie

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